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Made in gb
Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon






How do!

So I’ve been watching a few old video game playthroughs on YouTube. At first, I was kind of laughing at my ever having been impressed by some. Shonky graphics, tinny 8 bit sound, distorted voice clips. Certainly by today’s standards they’re nothing to write home about.

Yet, on reflection I realised how lucky I am to have grown up whilst the home video game market found its feet. For clarity, that’s 1980. Hence the question mark in the title, as which generation I belong to seems to depend upon who you ask.

Of course, that’s too late for Pong and the earliest home computers, so I wasn’t around for all of it. But I started out on a tape loaded, rubber keyed Sinclair Spectrum. Games like Atic Atac, Dizzy and it’s sequels etc. Often it took longer to load the game than you spent playing it, but that’s just the way it was then (I’m aware I may be sounding a little Abe Simpson. Don’t make me yell at a cloud).

Then came the NES, and blew my little smelly socks clean off. Instant loading! Longer games! Superior sound and graphics! For quite the price compared to a £5 tape or a free one your mate copied for you. Joypads! Light Guns! For me, that was probably the biggest sea change in technology.

And from there, everything kept improving by increments, until you get to the modern day. So incremental that it’s often very easy to forget just how far computer games have come in terms of quality, length and presentation. So it’s only when you look back on fondly remembered games (GoldenEye for me) and realise just how big those polygons were, and groundbreaking the multiplayer on one screen thing was. Even going back a single generation shows how much has change has crept up on you, because again it was all incremental.

Being a one toe in the water type gamer, in the modern day I’m afraid to say I mostly stick to AAA titles. There’s no snobbery there, it’s just I’m so far out of the loop, only games with big pushes come to my attention. But when I do start sniffing around, there’s just so many titles out there from publishers of all sizes. Heck, there are still occasional releases for SNES (though my Hipster Detector does get twitchy…)

It’s been quite the privilege to be along for this ride, and I look forward to the future and what that might bring.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/29 08:21:39


   
Made in gb
Frenzied Berserker Terminator




Southampton, UK

I'm a similar age to yourself (1978 vintage) and yes, I think you've nailed that. Didn't quite make the very start of gaming, but I remember playing on original Space Invaders and Centipede arcade games and so on. It's nice to have that level of history. My kids look at games from last-generation and marvel at how terrible the graphics apparently are - then I show them screen shots of things like the original Kings Quest graphic adventure...
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





I'm technically millennial by a couple of months, but grew up in enough middle of nowhere that my technology was always a few years behind the curve.

The NES is really astonishing when you compare what came before it. Some of that is the hardware; the NES controller in particular is responsive in a way that really separates the experience from anything earlier outside of arcade cabinets. Still, what you really see here is the industry really starting to master its craft. The NES is home to some of the jankiest, most miserable designs this side of ET, but also games like Mario and Megaman and the like that to this day developers struggle to match in terms of smooth responsive gameplay and level design. What's probably more impressive is the ability to pull things like Bloody Tears or the Moon Theme out of that sound chip.

Honestly, I probably only play 1 maybe 2 AAA games a year, and they're usually more on the AA side of things. There's just so much padding and automatic gameplay I just don't find it all that engaging. I'd much rather play something like Hades or Celeste or Ori or something that has that focus on mechanical interaction that is often sorely lacking in 3D outside of stuff like Platinum.
   
Made in us
Executing Exarch




Star Raiders was the best game of the early '80s.

Feel free to make sad counter-arguments for your own - inferior - favorite games.
   
Made in gb
Frenzied Berserker Terminator




Southampton, UK

When I was my youngest son's age I spent an inordinate amount of time playing this:


   
Made in gb
Executing Exarch





Eumerin wrote:
Star Raiders was the best game of the early '80s.

Feel free to make sad counter-arguments for your own - inferior - favorite games.


I'll see your Space Raiders and raise you a Dropzone (wee Turnip loved arcade Defender but it was pocket money draining hard)



"AND YET YOU ACT AS IF THERE IS SOME IDEAL ORDER IN THE WORLD, AS IF THERE IS SOME...SOME RIGHTNESS IN THE UNIVERSE BY WHICH IT MAY BE JUDGED." 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





I'm rather partial to Galaga personally, though Asteriods has a sort of chaos that makes it rather endlessly replayable.
   
Made in us
Executing Exarch




 Turnip Jedi wrote:
Eumerin wrote:
Star Raiders was the best game of the early '80s.

Feel free to make sad counter-arguments for your own - inferior - favorite games.


I'll see your Space Raiders and raise you a Dropzone (wee Turnip loved arcade Defender but it was pocket money draining hard)




Star Raiders, not "Space" Raiders (which I've never heard of).

AFAIK, it was the very first space combat sim, beating games like Wing Commander and X-Wing by over a decade.

While games like Defender allowed you to pilot a starfighter in two dimensions, Star Raiders allowed Atari home computer owners to fight and fly in all three.
   
Made in gb
Executing Exarch





@ Eumerin, my apologies for the typo, Space Raiders was a popular 80's brand of UK crisps

I'm fairly sure we got a version of the game you describe but don't think it was called that then again IP / copyright wasn't a big thing in 80s games as best my wonky memory serves none of my early nerd herd had an Atari machine mostly Spectrums, C64s and Apple II's

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/07/29 20:32:24


"AND YET YOU ACT AS IF THERE IS SOME IDEAL ORDER IN THE WORLD, AS IF THERE IS SOME...SOME RIGHTNESS IN THE UNIVERSE BY WHICH IT MAY BE JUDGED." 
   
Made in us
Executing Exarch




 Turnip Jedi wrote:
I'm fairly sure we got a version of the game you describe but don't think it was called that then again IP / copyright wasn't a big thing in 80s games as best my wonky memory serves none of my early nerd herd had an Atari machine mostly Spectrums, C64s and Apple II's


The game was developed in-house by an Atari employee. So it didn't get ported to non-Atari platforms. Other companies did apparently make very similar games after it's release, though. The game was described as the "killer app" of video games of the time, and has shown up in more than one "top ten most important video games of all times" list, largely because it's release was a big wake-up call to what exactly could be done in games with the technology at the time
   
Made in gb
Witch Hunter in the Shadows





I am nostalgically reminded of the extreme patience I must have had as a child to play many of the old 8 bit games, between the winding unmarked mazes, half-hour long memory tests, and a hell of a lot of trial and error.

Gaming through the 80s and 90s had the appeal of everything being fundamentally new and/or improved year on year, from the first game in a genre through to the games that defined the genre.
I still replay the old classics (and not so classic) from time to time. Knowing which handful of old games out of the thousands available are not unremittingly janky is half the battle - for some the novelty took the edge off the first time around is gone, for others the nostalgical forgives much.

Perhaps one of these days i'll go back and finish the old 8 bit game I was playing around with. Then again it once took me almost two weeks of lunch hours to write 20 bytes of code working code...



 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Then came the NES, and blew my little smelly socks clean off. Instant loading! Longer games! Superior sound and graphics! For quite the price compared to a £5 tape or a free one your mate copied for you. Joypads! Light Guns! For me, that was probably the biggest sea change in technology.
Arguably a change in company attitude towards home computers rather than technology (strictly speaking the old c64 was more powerful in many ways, albeit an utter clown-show of a computer).

At the time most manufactuerers were pushing out new machines with no plans beyond release and shovelling them with the same old games. Nintendo got it right by with particularly abusive quality control (80s nintendo were asshats), a clean product, and an actual plan going fowards. Other companies were too busy riding the 70s market into the ground to recognise what made them successful in the first place.
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





As harsh as Nintendo was in the 80's, it's worth remembering what they were dealing with. Lack of quality control had just flooded and the market and completely killed the industry. Even getting the NES in stores required some pretty silly nonsense (R.O.B.). There's still a lot of junk in the catalog, but the reality of a deluge of barely functional shovelware was very real. The Wii gets a lot of (deserved) flak for this, but it's nothing compared to the real garbage of the era that brought down Atari. Steam asset flips are probably the only thing that feels even remotely as bad and... even then...
   
Made in gb
Witch Hunter in the Shadows





 LunarSol wrote:
As harsh as Nintendo was in the 80's, it's worth remembering what they were dealing with. Lack of quality control had just flooded and the market and completely killed the industry.
Indeed - dodgy bedroom projects, half-assed conversions, incomplete games, and endless re-releases were par for the course on the home computer systems.
No way to regulate the non-cartridge systems, but memory costs before 82-83 made nintendo-level carts very expensive.

It wasn't just that Nintendo did quality control though, they used their market position to seriously strong-arm people. 3rd party devs had to pay Nintendo up front for large block orders of carts (no returns - all the risk on the dev), cart costs were also inflated for 3rd party and size capped early on to reduce their impact on Nintendos own game line. Devs were also required to sign exclusivity contracts (IIRC 2 years) and were prohibited from releasing more than 5 3rd party games per year. In Japan devs had to sign over 50% copyright ownership of any disk-based game too.
They got taken to court over the licencing but strung it out into the 90s.
   
Made in gb
Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon






There’s definitely a fascinating history.

The main pro-Nintendo argument seems to be their heavy handed approach prevented people just rush programming.

If you’re facing significant upfront costs to get it on the shelves, the theory is you’re more likely to ensure your game is complete, playable and hopefully in some way original.

I think Nintendo got away with it somewhat in the court of public opinion because their own titles practiced what they preached. At least, Mario, Metroid and Zelda very much did.

   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Something to consider is that Nintendo invested a LOT into restoring the US market. At the time you could not get stores to stock videogames and Nintendo basically spent half a decade first tricking stores into selling an interactive robot toy and then building a brand name that rehabilitated consumer trust in the entire industry. That kind of brand management is essentially the entire point of a closed source platform.

For a bit of perspective, at the time, brand management was well worth it. Everyone wants a better deal, but no one was rushing to the Master System to get it. Consumers had faith in Nintendo; not video games, but the name Nintendo itself. Honestly, what really broke their hold on the market was simply that they had successfully rehabilitated the market to the point where a competitor could provide a competitive alternative.
   
Made in gb
Witch Hunter in the Shadows





 LunarSol wrote:
Something to consider is that Nintendo invested a LOT into restoring the US market. At the time you could not get stores to stock videogames and Nintendo basically spent half a decade first tricking stores into selling an interactive robot toy and then building a brand name that rehabilitated consumer trust in the entire industry.
I remember R.O.B.
It was a great idea - kids would get their parents to buy them the robot, which just so happened to come with the console and required the console be set up - voila one installed user. It certainly wasn't a half decade long trick on retailers (ROB only sold for a couple of years), but it was good market research by Nintendo to push the console as a toy first and foremost, along with it's external design, bundled lightgun, etc.

The master system and NES both had their first main release in America in the same year (1986) though the NES had a limited release late in 85 so about a year ahead on the market, long enough to get into a lot of homes uncontested and far too soon for owners to consider another similar console purchase.
   
Made in gb
Executing Exarch





I'm still not sure the 'crash' really impacted us out on Airstrip 1, we had some proper strange games and a lot of guff in the 8 bit era, then again I don't think I had my C64 till first or second year of secondary school circa 83-84 and I never recall not being able to get games, heck my tiny shire backwater village even had a games shop, admittedly it was more or less the utility room of the owners house but still counts

The early consoles never seemed to be a thing locally as Atari STs and Amigas seemed the upgrade of choice and barring the odd Megadrive it remained that way till the PS1

"AND YET YOU ACT AS IF THERE IS SOME IDEAL ORDER IN THE WORLD, AS IF THERE IS SOME...SOME RIGHTNESS IN THE UNIVERSE BY WHICH IT MAY BE JUDGED." 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





R.O.B. really wasn't about selling to kids, it was about selling it to stores that had just had to dump thousands of Atari cartridges for pennies when the market crashed. R.O.B. existed so at trade shows Nintendo could sell it to companies like Radio Shack and especially for the SEARS catalog as an "interactive robotics toy". It was just a way onto shelves during a time when the cultural perception was that videogames were a dead fad that no store would risk selling again.
   
Made in gb
Witch Hunter in the Shadows





 LunarSol wrote:
R.O.B. really wasn't about selling to kids
Well, a fringe benefit then.
As you say getting it categorised as a toy was their priority - other companies like Commodore had also made the move to get sold in places like the Sears catalog but kids weren't exactly browsing the computing section for mis-coloured VIC-20s :p

[Thumb - nes-rob.jpg]
NES survey 1986

   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Hadn't seen that before. Neat. Thanks for posting.
   
Made in gb
Witch Hunter in the Shadows





 LunarSol wrote:
Hadn't seen that before. Neat. Thanks for posting.
A couple of years back I got excessively sidetracked while trying to learn a little 6502 machine language. Even discovered that one of my co-workers was still releasing C64 games, small world.
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





I'm probably slightly younger than some commenters here ITT, but I am old enough to remember a fairly analog childhood.

One of my earliest memories was of my dad's stack of NES games, and we had two copies of the Top Gun video game. One cartridge was the single player game, the other was a split screen 2 player game (and one of maybe a handful of games I got to play with him on that system)

One of my elementary schools had green screen PCs in a room, and we did have a copy of the 5.5" floppy disk (which was actually floppy) Oregon Trail.
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka





This pretty much sums up how I feel about the last 40 years in gaming...




...because today is like living in the damn future!

Casual gaming, mostly solo-coop these days.

 
   
Made in gb
Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon






Here’s a blast from the past for other British Dakkanauts of my vintage - Granny’s Garden, an educational piece of software.




This is what I cut my teef on around the age of perhaps 7. And I can distinctly remember not knowing what a Space Bar was, but a friend Michael being way ahead of that curve.

On an old BBC Acorn, which for some reason I’ll never understand was setup in the Nurse’s sickroom! Though it may be that room latterly became the sick room.

Jumping to the more modern day, I think it’s telling that the SNES and NES Classics weren’t just Hipster Bait, but genuinely well received re-issues of classic games.

They’re a reminder that the game I played as a kid were genuinely good - and it’s not just rose tinted glasses.

Sure, some are actually pretty tough to beat, but I suspect that was deliberate. Being limited in the size of the game, if they were a doddle to beat from the off, they wouldn’t really justify the price tag.

Some were notoriously difficult (I’m not playing Hunt for Red October ever, ever again, and you can’t make me), but overall the challenge was the thing. Super Mario Bros is probably a solid example of this.

It’s actually quite a basic platformer, as I’m sure all will agree. And as you progress through the levels, the difficulty increases just enough to keep it fun and challenging (except the swimming levels if you don’t have a fire flower, they can sod off). The key was just how responsive the controls were, and that you could sort of abort a jump - you had at least some capacity to pull it short.

Plus, the various baddies having set behaviour patterns introduced a certain puzzle solving element. And each entry in that series added new and interesting elements, as well as a touch up of the graphics.

I’ve not yet invested in the Sega or Sony ones, but I may do in the future.

   
Made in gb
Executing Exarch





I got a C64 plug and play and had almost the opposite reaction, nearly everything was terrible (bar Paradroid which is awesome)

That said the Amiga mini looks tempting, Speedball 2 being the best sporty game of all time (Sensi soccer got close but had no ice cream)

"AND YET YOU ACT AS IF THERE IS SOME IDEAL ORDER IN THE WORLD, AS IF THERE IS SOME...SOME RIGHTNESS IN THE UNIVERSE BY WHICH IT MAY BE JUDGED." 
   
Made in gb
Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon






Wasn’t aware of the C64 one, but looked it up on Amazon.

One of the questions was as to what games are on it. The answer was a block of text, but named them, and their gaming magazine ratings.

It’s that latter part that reminded me of a particularly excellent magazine, which sadly I can’t remember the name of.

What I do remember is that alongside the main article and it’s score, other staff members had a short blurb and their own score for the game.

It’s not something I really remember seeing before or since, but seems a solid concept. After all, if someone is an afficiando of a given genre, they might by somewhat blinded by direct comparison. So to have others weighing in with something like “I’ve not played as many games in this genre, but I still enjoyed this”.

   
Made in gb
Executing Exarch





Sounds like Zzap 64 to me (not sure Crash if did the same as that was a rag for speccy peons )

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/29 19:50:02


"AND YET YOU ACT AS IF THERE IS SOME IDEAL ORDER IN THE WORLD, AS IF THERE IS SOME...SOME RIGHTNESS IN THE UNIVERSE BY WHICH IT MAY BE JUDGED." 
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka





 Turnip Jedi wrote:
I got a C64 plug and play and had almost the opposite reaction, nearly everything was terrible (bar Paradroid which is awesome)

That said the Amiga mini looks tempting, Speedball 2 being the best sporty game of all time (Sensi soccer got close but had no ice cream)


The Amiga mini is a thing already???

OMG that is just so damn cool. It was the machine we only dreamed of owning back in the day.

Casual gaming, mostly solo-coop these days.

 
   
Made in gb
Executing Exarch





SamusDrake wrote:
 Turnip Jedi wrote:
I got a C64 plug and play and had almost the opposite reaction, nearly everything was terrible (bar Paradroid which is awesome)

That said the Amiga mini looks tempting, Speedball 2 being the best sporty game of all time (Sensi soccer got close but had no ice cream)


The Amiga mini is a thing already???

OMG that is just so damn cool. It was the machine we only dreamed of owning back in the day.


I recall it took me about 6 months of saving up from my terrible training job to afford mine but so worth it

"AND YET YOU ACT AS IF THERE IS SOME IDEAL ORDER IN THE WORLD, AS IF THERE IS SOME...SOME RIGHTNESS IN THE UNIVERSE BY WHICH IT MAY BE JUDGED." 
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka





 Turnip Jedi wrote:


I recall it took me about 6 months of saving up from my terrible training job to afford mine but so worth it


Wasn't it something like £400 back in the day? That was a serious chunk of change back then.

Casual gaming, mostly solo-coop these days.

 
   
 
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