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2021/07/29 16:54:42
Subject: 40K – Incoming AdMech balance patch 30/07
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Tucked away at the bottom of today's Metawatch article on Warcom:
P.S. It’s great to get feedback from some of the top players around the world. Besides just speaking with the “best of the best,” we keep a careful eye on the global meta, results from tournaments, and data from analysis sites and trackers. Since the release of Codex: Adeptus Mechanicus, it became clear some of Sean and Steve’s predictions for this codex were almost too on the money – some of their rules interactions were a bit more powerful than intended. As a result, expect to see a FAQ release for Adeptus Mechanicus tomorrow dealing with some of the sharpest ends of their collective stick – in particular, large blocks of Skitarii troops and some of the interactions over-tuning Ironstrider Ballistari.
Source: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/07/29/metawatch-how-the-mechanicus-and-sororitas-are-shaking-up-warhammer-40000-tiers-in-a-major-way/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=Facebook&utm_campaign=Facebook&utm_term=MetawatchSupport29072021&utm_content=MetawatchSupport29072021&fbclid=IwAR19Yu5Q4_0LDA4FlVUwyFYTp9ENoocNgUfMHq4KOuse8kMkvC0zVym4P0c
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/07/29 16:58:00
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2021/07/29 19:02:44
Subject: 40K – Incoming AdMech balance patch 30/07
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Awesome. All told, not a long period of time of suffering from over-tuned rules interactions, but we'll see how far the FAQ goes.
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2021/07/29 19:45:59
Subject: 40K – Incoming AdMech balance patch 30/07
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Hopefully they use a fine touch. The balance patches for Dark Eldar were very well done compared to some of the gross overreaction nerfs of the past
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2021/07/29 19:50:26
Subject: 40K – Incoming AdMech balance patch 30/07
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Regular Dakkanaut
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buying print copies of GW Codex are such giant wastes of money.
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2021/07/29 20:21:22
Subject: 40K – Incoming AdMech balance patch 30/07
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Confessor Of Sins
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And yet it isn’t possible to play the game without rules. The conundrum.
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2021/07/29 20:50:08
Subject: 40K – Incoming AdMech balance patch 30/07
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Sadistic Inquisitorial Excruciator
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I used to buy the digital copies, but GW don’t want my money anymore.
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2021/07/29 21:03:16
Subject: 40K – Incoming AdMech balance patch 30/07
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Fixture of Dakka
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Ah, so you've stopped playing, then? That's unfortunate.
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2021-4 Plog - Here we go again... - my fifth attempt at a Dakka PLOG
My Pile of Potential - updates ongoing...
Gamgee on Tau Players wrote:we all kill cats and sell our own families to the devil and eat live puppies.
Kanluwen wrote:This is, emphatically, why I will continue suggesting nuking Guard and starting over again. It's a legacy army that needs to be rebooted with a new focal point.
Confirmation of why no-one should listen to Kanluwen when it comes to the IG - he doesn't want the IG, he want's Kan's New Model Army...
tneva82 wrote:You aren't even trying ty pretend for honest arqument. Open bad faith trolling. - No reason to keep this here, unless people want to use it for something... |
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2021/07/29 21:06:39
Subject: 40K – Incoming AdMech balance patch 30/07
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Fixture of Dakka
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drbored wrote:Awesome. All told, not a long period of time of suffering from over-tuned rules interactions, but we'll see how far the FAQ goes.
From this batch. The problem is that it's been a consistent problem with each release that's lead to an extended agony.
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2021/07/29 21:25:35
Subject: 40K – Incoming AdMech balance patch 30/07
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Archmagos Veneratus Extremis
Home Base: Prosper, TX (Dallas)
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LunarSol wrote:drbored wrote:Awesome. All told, not a long period of time of suffering from over-tuned rules interactions, but we'll see how far the FAQ goes.
From this batch. The problem is that it's been a consistent problem with each release that's lead to an extended agony.
Show me where the sisters touched you....
2 of the last 4 books have had tuning problems with orks and sisters hitting a nearly perfect pitch. And we've had actual, fast, reactions to the overclocking.
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Best Painted (2015 Adepticon 40k Champs)
They Shall Know Fear - Adepticon 40k TT Champion (2012 & 2013) & 40k TT Best Sport (2014), 40k TT Best Tactician (2015 & 2016) |
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2021/07/30 01:14:22
Subject: 40K – Incoming AdMech balance patch 30/07
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Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests
Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.
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Overbalancing is a core tenet of GW's design ethos.
They could end up losing Core and most of their special rules.
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2021/07/30 02:38:28
Subject: 40K – Incoming AdMech balance patch 30/07
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Flashy Flashgitz
North Carolina
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MajorWesJanson wrote:Hopefully they use a fine touch. The balance patches for Dark Eldar were very well done compared to some of the gross overreaction nerfs of the past
The Drukhari FAQ was ultimately too light and came out way too late. I hope they do better with Ad Mech - there is a lot more that needs addressing than Drukhari.
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2021/07/30 03:13:34
Subject: 40K – Incoming AdMech balance patch 30/07
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Dendarien wrote: MajorWesJanson wrote:Hopefully they use a fine touch. The balance patches for Dark Eldar were very well done compared to some of the gross overreaction nerfs of the past
The Drukhari FAQ was ultimately too light and came out way too late. I hope they do better with Ad Mech - there is a lot more that needs addressing than Drukhari.
IDK, I was pretty please with the Drukhari FAQ. Could they have been nerfed a bit more? Well, yes, but I'd say they got 95% of the nerfing they needed.
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2021/07/30 03:21:31
Subject: 40K – Incoming AdMech balance patch 30/07
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Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle
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While I think these problems should never have made through in the first place I am glad to see GW addressing them. And now, instead of waiting until the next CA.
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Road to Renown! It's like classic Path to Glory, but repaired, remastered, expanded! https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/778170.page
I chose an avatar I feel best represents the quality of my post history.
I try to view Warhammer as more of a toolbox with examples than fully complete games. |
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2021/07/30 11:11:50
Subject: Re:40K – Incoming AdMech balance patch 30/07
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Commander of the Mysterious 2nd Legion
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Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two |
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2021/07/30 11:20:19
Subject: Re:40K – Incoming AdMech balance patch 30/07
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Nihilistic Necron Lord
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As someone who’s never actually played against Admech, care to break down what the changes actually did for the class?
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2021/07/30 11:21:57
Subject: 40K – Incoming AdMech balance patch 30/07
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Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor
Gathering the Informations.
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They removed "Core" from the Ironstriders, meaning that they cannot natively gain buffs.
They buffed the Command Post cost of the crutch that is Enriched Rounds.
Those two changes mean that we'll likely see a shift in listbuilding to an extent.
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2021/07/30 11:25:23
Subject: 40K – Incoming AdMech balance patch 30/07
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Longtime Dakkanaut
Germany
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Well that was hilariously worthless and didn't fix any issues.
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"Tabletop games are the only setting when a body is made more horrifying for NOT being chopped into smaller pieces."
- Jiado |
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2021/07/30 11:29:09
Subject: 40K – Incoming AdMech balance patch 30/07
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Trazyn's Museum Curator
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What was enriched rounds before?
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What I have
~4100
~1660
Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!
A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble
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2021/07/30 11:41:13
Subject: Re:40K – Incoming AdMech balance patch 30/07
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Towering Hierophant Bio-Titan
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AduroT wrote:
As someone who’s never actually played against Admech, care to break down what the changes actually did for the class?
To summarise:
The +1 armour save bonus Lucius dogma now no longer stacks with cover.
"Acquisition at Any Cost" stratagem to auto-pass morale now requires the unit to be wholly within 6" of an objective (rather than just 1 model) and can only be used once per game.
"Enriched Rounds" stratagem now auto-wounds on 5+ instead of 4+, and costs 2CP for units of 11+ models.
This was exactly what Goonhammer suggested as a fix.
"Galvanic Volley Fire" stratagem sets the weapon type to Heavy 3 instead of Rapid Fire 2, reducing total shots at close range and making the unit less mobile.
Ironstriders lost CORE keyword removing a bunch of buffs
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2021/07/30 11:42:03
Subject: Re:40K – Incoming AdMech balance patch 30/07
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Trazyn's Museum Curator
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xttz wrote: AduroT wrote:
As someone who’s never actually played against Admech, care to break down what the changes actually did for the class?
To summarise:
The +1 armour save bonus Lucius dogma now no longer stacks with cover.
"Acquisition at Any Cost" stratagem to auto-pass morale now requires the unit to be wholly within 6" of an objective (rather than just 1 model) and can only be used once per game.
"Enriched Rounds" stratagem now auto-wounds on 5+ instead of 4+, and costs 2CP for units of 11+ models.
This was exactly what Goonhammer suggested as a fix.
"Galvanic Volley Fire" stratagem sets the weapon type to Heavy 3 instead of Rapid Fire 2, reducing total shots at close range and making the unit less mobile.
Ironstriders lost CORE keyword removing a bunch of buffs
Those sound like some significant nerfs.
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What I have
~4100
~1660
Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!
A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble
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2021/07/30 12:54:51
Subject: 40K – Incoming AdMech balance patch 30/07
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Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests
Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.
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Lost Core, as expected.
Only thing I don't agree with is the Enriched Rounds nerf. You either make something more expensive to represent its worth, or reduce its worth to represent its cost. Here they've both made it worse and made it more expensive.
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2021/07/30 13:15:12
Subject: 40K – Incoming AdMech balance patch 30/07
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Um, it addressed some of the primary offenders pretty directly. Enriched Rounds and Galvanic Volley now cost 2CP each with 11+ models in the unit, and Enriched Rounds only wounds on 5+ (33% fewer auto wounds on average for double the CP cost).
Ballistari are no longer CORE, which is pretty big, but they're still maybe too cheap, but losing some rerolls (and stratagem support) does hurt.
Acquisition at Any Cost nerf is subtle but pretty significant. Having to be "wholly within" 6 inches essentially means you can't string out a squad from a ruin, take your saves on the models in the ruin, then auto pass morale every turn. Now you're stuck out in the open and can only pass morale once.
I do think a few more nerfs will be coming (and also for Drukhari) unless GW goes back to earlier codexes and gives them buffs instead on unit costs or abilities. Automatically Appended Next Post: H.B.M.C. wrote:Lost Core, as expected.
Only thing I don't agree with is the Enriched Rounds nerf. You either make something more expensive to represent its worth, or reduce its worth to represent its cost. Here they've both made it worse and made it more expensive.
In this case I think the double nerf is justified. Regardless of CP cost, I just think that strat was too powerful to be on something like a 160 point troop squad.
I still think Enriched Rounds is an OK strat to be fair -- on average it now forces 20+ saves from a full volley. For example, now instead of deleting a squad of Warriors instantly, they'll get to do their reanimation, and this seems more realistic.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/07/30 13:20:47
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2021/07/30 13:29:18
Subject: 40K – Incoming AdMech balance patch 30/07
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Longtime Dakkanaut
Bamberg / Erlangen
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Have you taken an actual look at the Errata before coming to that conclusion?
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2021/07/30 13:37:47
Subject: 40K – Incoming AdMech balance patch 30/07
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Towering Hierophant Bio-Titan
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I believe that every single person who posts on here has a valid contribution to make. In this case, his contribution is justifying the availability of the ignore button.
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2021/07/30 14:23:46
Subject: 40K – Incoming AdMech balance patch 30/07
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Nihilistic Necron Lord
The best State-Texas
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H.B.M.C. wrote:Lost Core, as expected.
Only thing I don't agree with is the Enriched Rounds nerf. You either make something more expensive to represent its worth, or reduce its worth to represent its cost. Here they've both made it worse and made it more expensive.
I disagree with this. Enriched rounds was far, far to good. It needed to be both nerfed and go up in CP cost. It's still incredibly good even with these nerfs.
With that being said, I am pretty suprised with no points increases. Vanguard/Rangers really should have seen a points increase IMO. I also don't think the Lucius nerf really felt half hearted.
We'll see how things go, but I still suspect Ad Mech will be top dogs even with this round of nerfs.
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2021/07/30 14:29:23
Subject: 40K – Incoming AdMech balance patch 30/07
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Lieutenant General
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Sasori wrote:With that being said, I am pretty suprised with no points increases. Vanguard/Rangers really should have seen a points increase IMO.
GW tends not to do points adjustments in the FAQs unless it is to fix an error (e.g., Adepta Sororitas Paragon Warsuits).
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'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'
- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim |
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2021/07/30 14:38:28
Subject: 40K – Incoming AdMech balance patch 30/07
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Ancient Venerable Dark Angels Dreadnought
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Ghaz wrote: Sasori wrote:With that being said, I am pretty suprised with no points increases. Vanguard/Rangers really should have seen a points increase IMO.
GW tends not to do points adjustments in the FAQs unless it is to fix an error (e.g., Adepta Sororitas Paragon Warsuits).
was going to say the same thing, but then Drukhari Raiders (edit: and Drazhar) are a thing
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/30 14:39:11
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2021/07/30 14:47:30
Subject: 40K – Incoming AdMech balance patch 30/07
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Lieutenant General
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bullyboy wrote: Ghaz wrote: Sasori wrote:With that being said, I am pretty suprised with no points increases. Vanguard/Rangers really should have seen a points increase IMO.
GW tends not to do points adjustments in the FAQs unless it is to fix an error (e.g., Adepta Sororitas Paragon Warsuits).
was going to say the same thing, but then Drukhari Raiders (edit: and Drazhar) are a thing
Which could have been errors...
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'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'
- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim |
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2021/07/30 15:09:28
Subject: 40K – Incoming AdMech balance patch 30/07
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Ancient Venerable Dark Angels Dreadnought
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Ghaz wrote: bullyboy wrote: Ghaz wrote: Sasori wrote:With that being said, I am pretty suprised with no points increases. Vanguard/Rangers really should have seen a points increase IMO.
GW tends not to do points adjustments in the FAQs unless it is to fix an error (e.g., Adepta Sororitas Paragon Warsuits).
was going to say the same thing, but then Drukhari Raiders (edit: and Drazhar) are a thing
Which could have been errors...
Nah, they even stated they were too cheap, not that the points were supposed to be that way. The changes came in response to tournament results.
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2021/07/30 15:17:44
Subject: 40K – Incoming AdMech balance patch 30/07
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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You have no idea what you're talking about.
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