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Title is hyperbole/a riff off the infamous New York Daily News headline during the 1976 Presidential election.

Atomic Mass posted this:



I have to say I'm devastated.

I feel like this is a bit of an inaccurate headline - they're not saying it's cancelled.

And Armada, perhaps even more so than X-wing, seemed to have a lot of stock issues. There were points of times when the basic fighter packs were going for quite a bit on ebay simply because no more had been made.

On the other hand I know FFG/AMG games live and die on having a stream of shiny new things to buy so maybe this'll be bad. Or maybe having basic products will attract new players, who knows?

 ScarletRose wrote:
I feel like this is a bit of an inaccurate headline - they're not saying it's cancelled.

Did you not read the first sentence in my post, nor read/watch the content in the link I shared elaborating on the reference I was making with it? Its a perfectly accurate headline, the context is essentially the same. Ford never told New York to 'drop dead', nor did him not giving the city additional funding "cancel" the city, in the same way that AMG didn't say the game is cancelled, nor does them not releasing further product prevent people from continuing to purchase and play it.

And Armada, perhaps even more so than X-wing, seemed to have a lot of stock issues. There were points of times when the basic fighter packs were going for quite a bit on ebay simply because no more had been made.

The stock issues are because everything sells out quickly. Everything sells out quickly because the demand for the product exceeds available supply. Demand for the product exceeds available supply because they only manufacture enough product to cover what they expect to sell based on their sales projections. They only manufacture enough product to cover what they expect to sell based on their sales projections because that is what they regard as being maximally profitable with minimal risk.

The fact that everything is constantly sold out proves that the game is/could be very profitable and is worth supporting, so stock issues aren't necessarily a bad thing in this context.

Unprepared small studio under corporate overlords struggles with the backlog of multiple Star Wars product lines dropped in their laps. Goodness me, what a shock.

Armada was the best choice for a new product hiatus, as FFG left it with a legacy of neglect anyway.

--
Got to say, though, I absolute hate AMG's website. Finding anything on it (especially about the SW games) is basically a non-starter.

Sorry for Armada players as this looks to be the end. But glad I sold all my Armada stuff off years ago.

Voss wrote:
Unprepared small studio under corporate overlords struggles with the backlog of multiple Star Wars product lines dropped in their laps. Goodness me, what a shock.

Armada was the best choice for a new product hiatus, as FFG left it with a legacy of neglect anyway.

I think this is an overly polite read of the situation. It hasn't been publicly stated but the discussion amongst those "in the know" (and I do have direct lines to a few people who worked at FFG and lost their jobs as a result of this) is that AMG was given the option to retain some or all of FFGs design staff and chose not to, and only extended an offer to a couple of people to allow them to interview for their jobs, of which they only hired one, who they fired less than a year later (3 weeks ago in fact). So the unprepared bit is definitely accurate, but I would follow it with "and poorly mis-managed".

Also, FFG left Amada (specifically Armada) with a product development roadmap that Lucasfilm had approved out to 2023, which is far from "neglect". There was a lot of content in various stages of development (scuttlebutt from my contacts says there was at least one more wave of Clone Wars stuff that was basically ready to go in terms of design and development, they only needed to move ahead with production on it). In terms of sales, they literally could not produce product fast enough, the demand for it was clearly there.

the big question I have is when they got 'given' the starwars line did they get given an appropriate budget to manage them with,

yes they're an internal asmodee studio, but that doesn't necessarily mean they have access to a bottomless pot of cash (or even a pot of cash as big as FFG were playing with)

expecting bits of a business to do more with less is typical venture capital firm behaviour and might explain why so few of the FFG starwars staff were taken across, and why a mapped out release pipeline was dropped, no money to pay for completion and production

not that it really makes a difference to Armada players, as no new releases planned mean an dying game at best, which probably means a canceled game in fairly short order

Right now I'm thinking its a license issue. Asmodees Star Wars license expires in the 2023-2024 timeframe (if not very early 2025). It takes them 18-24 months to take a product from concept to release. With all the delays and everything its possible that they don't have any optimism to be able to get something out for Armada with enough time on the market to make the investment in time/money/resources worthwhile before the license goes.

It could be that if/when they renew the license things will pick back up and those negotiations are ongoing, but the fact that they felt compelled to post this doesn't leave me with very much hope of that occurring. I think its likely that Disney/Lucasfilm upped the license fee that they were asking for and Asmodee walked. Alternatively, Disney/Lucasfilm want to put it out to bid to see what they can get for it.

Right now, I expect we'll be seeing similar announcements made for X-Wing/Legion within the next 12-18 months.

that's my read too, the SW RPG, which used to be FFG and is now in the Edge has done the same thing, Edge studio has said that they'll continue to print what they currently have, but won't be producing anything else until the lisence gets renewed.

to be brutally honest though that makes me suspect that there's some serious doubt that the lisence WILL be renewed, Disney may be displeased with the fact that they gave the lisence to one company and it's since been bought out and parted out to a number of differant companies.

Isn't the woman that was the head of Disney liaison for Fantasy Flight the head of Atomic Mass Games now? You would think she would be the one that knows what is going on.
If feels like they might have a tight overhead, if something doesn't make big money, they could lose their jobs. So they don't want to take any chances and just keep printing stuff
that is already made with active orders for.
I was slow-building my Armada stuff and this will only make it worse on trying to find stuff. Looks like building the new armies need to be taken off the list and focus on getting
the last few models I need for Imperial and Rebels, then call it done.

Yes, Simone Elliott went from managing the Disney license for FFG to managing all of AMG.

 Genoside07 wrote:
Isn't the woman that was the head of Disney liaison for Fantasy Flight the head of Atomic Mass Games now? You would think she would be the one that knows what is going on.

She'll know whats going on on her end but that doesn't mean she'll nesscarily know for sure what disney's planning. Heck, IIRC FFG got the SW lisence before disney even purchased Lucasfilm, there may be the very real chance Disney may not be intreasted in extending the lisence for some reason. not saying it's garenteed, but yeah given the lead time on product development, in AMG's shoes I'd proably be leery of producing anything new.

Sounds to me like the switchover and covid ared taking their toll.
I expect new stuf for armada within a year.

Agree with other sentiments here - this was a likely outcome of a business decision to cut miniature lines out of FFG, just as they did with the PnP rpg before.
And like before, they gave it to a company that fit the product type, without the capabilities to continue development within the next 2-3 years.
And if the licence is up for renewal in 2024, as chaos0xomega wrote, then anything else but reprinting old stuff is indeed most likely off the tables right now, especially seeing how the decision to gut FFG was a corporate one in the first place, i.e. Asmodee will want to further cut costs, not invest in the continuation or even remodelling of a product line, at this point.

What has been pre-planned/put into the production chain by FFG was still being published and then all 3 games are in hibernation. Which should be right about now.
And that effectively means that the games are dead, right now.
Because when a game cannot make the news anymore and product shortages are increasing rather than decreasing, new players do not invest, and old ones will wander off.

(BTW, shops in my area just got the first reprints of some english SW RPG books in 2 years - that is of the latest publications (Allies and adversaries etc.). If that is any indication for the reprinting of miniature lines through Asmodee supply chains, the games are more than dead.)

In the best scenario, we are looking at a Blood Bowl situation, where the community builds something improved and extended from the old, and once corporate world catches up again, they can use that community to start over.

A problem (for AMG or whoever) might be that 3D prints will diminsh demand for official new models, the longer it takes to restart production.
(Unless Disney finally decides to start descending on 3d modellers and - printing services.)

BrianDavion wrote:
that's my read too, the SW RPG, which used to be FFG and is now in the Edge has done the same thing, Edge studio has said that they'll continue to print what they currently have, but won't be producing anything else until the lisence gets renewed.

to be brutally honest though that makes me suspect that there's some serious doubt that the lisence WILL be renewed, Disney may be displeased with the fact that they gave the lisence to one company and it's since been bought out and parted out to a number of differant companies.

It might be easier than all that: they might just not want a repeat of the GW renewal debacle, where they had to just toss into the trash a lot of developments for something that was supposed to be a "done deal".

 Albertorius wrote:

It might be easier than all that: they might just not want a repeat of the GW renewal debacle, where they had to just toss into the trash a lot of developments for something that was supposed to be a "done deal".

What happened with that licence?

The_Real_Chris wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:

It might be easier than all that: they might just not want a repeat of the GW renewal debacle, where they had to just toss into the trash a lot of developments for something that was supposed to be a "done deal".

What happened with that licence?

It got to the end, and FFG and GW didn't reach an agreement for renewal (internal scuttlebutt points to FFG being very, very surprised by that). But FFG had continued developing and releasing stuff until the end (and even after in some cases), so they had to toss a lot of things and abruptly end some others.

The_Real_Chris wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:

It might be easier than all that: they might just not want a repeat of the GW renewal debacle, where they had to just toss into the trash a lot of developments for something that was supposed to be a "done deal".

What happened with that licence?

We'll never know for sure. As with licenses, somebody somewhere thinks they could charge a certain amount and somebody somewhere else looks at the cashflow model and decides the best thing is to drop it. Some people that FFG moving into miniature wargames with Runewars (but they needed of worried as FFG mishandled the whole thing).

Of more concern would be to avoid the Android: Netrunner debacle.

 Albertorius wrote:

The_Real_Chris wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:

It might be easier than all that: they might just not want a repeat of the GW renewal debacle, where they had to just toss into the trash a lot of developments for something that was supposed to be a "done deal".

What happened with that licence?

It got to the end, and FFG and GW didn't reach an agreement for renewal (internal scuttlebutt points to FFG being very, very surprised by that). But FFG had continued developing and releasing stuff until the end (and even after in some cases), so they had to toss a lot of things and abruptly end some others.

What happened with the GW license is that FFG began making a direct competitor to Warhammer for some unknown reason (Rune Wars I think?). One of the worst business decisions made by any company in the last decade. Of course GW didn't want to give their license to a company that would bring people to their store using GW and then sell them a different game.

That decision led to a lot of things- I think ultimately it weakened FFG to the point where it got sold to Asmodee.

caladancid wrote:
That decision led to a lot of things- I think ultimately it weakened FFG to the point where it got sold to Asmodee.

...what? No. Not in the slightest. FFG has been part of Asmodee since 2014. That was years after that.

 Albertorius wrote:

caladancid wrote:
That decision led to a lot of things- I think ultimately it weakened FFG to the point where it got sold to Asmodee.

...what? No. Not in the slightest. FFG has been part of Asmodee since 2014. That was years after that.

Which part are you saying not in the slightest? It is absolutely true that FFG violated their agreement with GW and that is why they lost the license. If it was a surprise to FFG, it was because they didn't read the contract.

edit-

Oh, only the sold part. I was referring to the ultimate breaking up of the company that has been happening.

Wasn't the contract that FFG couldn't make models depicting Warhammer, which is why Relic had the busts instead?

People cite RuneWars, but getting the Star Wars license and X-Wing taking off (heh) feel like a more probable reason than because they were making a rank and file wargame with their own IP at a time when GW were dragging Fantasy behind the shed.

Tome of Decay spending years in limbo (everyone thought Black Crusade was dead when it was suddenly announced out of nowhere) and the Specialist book for Only War never materialising do make me wonder if things were happening behind the scenes for longer than the rug suddenly being pulled out though.

caladancid wrote:
That decision led to a lot of things- I think ultimately it weakened FFG to the point where it got sold to Asmodee.

They'd had the Star Wars license for a years at that point. 40k products were barely a blip on the radar compared to that.

caladancid wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:

caladancid wrote:
That decision led to a lot of things- I think ultimately it weakened FFG to the point where it got sold to Asmodee.

...what? No. Not in the slightest. FFG has been part of Asmodee since 2014. That was years after that.

Which part are you saying not in the slightest? It is absolutely true that FFG violated their agreement with GW and that is why they lost the license. If it was a surprise to FFG, it was because they didn't read the contract.

edit-

Oh, only the sold part. I was referring to the ultimate breaking up of the company that has been happening.

Well, it could as well be to the rest, too. Do you have any actual data about the bolded assertion? Because that's not what I have been told, by some people sort of high profile on FFG. As far as I know, there was no clause at all in the contract preventing FFG from doing anything related with what you've stated: AFAIK, the only thing they were prohibited to do was releasing any miniatures game using the GW IP, and no miniatures for any of their boardgame that could be used as a gaming miniature for GW miniatures games (which is the main reason why the 40k Talisman uses busts).

Logically enough, OTOH.

People see amazingly complex narratives when looking at nothing at all. Armada doesn't sell very well. Its revenue when compared to the costs doesn't cover its manufacture, development, and share of overhead for the company at large. And so it goes bye bye.

I saw some in other forums delusionally clinging to the idea that this is just a polite announcement that they don't have any stuff planned for awhile, so you don't have to wonder, and then of course things will crank up again in a year.

It's not a real life version of Game of Thrones happening at Asmodee, it's a product line that was holding on by a thread, if that, that was simultaneously moved over to another department along with all other such product lines. That it got the ax is a necessary coincidence.

It was about X-Wing, the agreement was the FFG does not make a Wargame, so they made the X-Wing Boardgame but because it grew in popularity withing the wargaming community, GW saw this a breach of contract and the license was done
hence why it was a surprise at FFG as they never thought about that

Runewars came out after that

 kodos wrote:
It was about X-Wing, the agreement was the FFG does not make a Wargame, so they made the X-Wing Boardgame but because it grew in popularity withing the wargaming community, GW saw this a breach of contract and the license was done
hence why it was a surprise at FFG as they never thought about that

Runewars came out after that

I can only say that it's not what I've been told (meaning, that I've been told there was no clause about wargames on the contract).

But it can perfectly be that GW simply saw it that way.

I don't know what was in the contract or what GW claimed the breach of contract was

just that it was about X-Wing because GW claimed it is something FFG should not have done (and competes with their main games) while FFG saw it as Boardgame that does not compete at all with the GW games


back to Armada, a game were you have problems with supply, hence no ones buys it, so you need to stop because you are not selling enough

well, also giving 3 additional games to a company that is able to handle 1 might not have been the best idea and that 1 or even 2 of them will be cut was expected

 frankelee wrote:
People see amazingly complex narratives when looking at nothing at all. Armada doesn't sell very well. Its revenue when compared to the costs doesn't cover its manufacture, development, and share of overhead for the company at large. And so it goes bye bye.

I saw some in other forums delusionally clinging to the idea that this is just a polite announcement that they don't have any stuff planned for awhile, so you don't have to wonder, and then of course things will crank up again in a year.

It's not a real life version of Game of Thrones happening at Asmodee, it's a product line that was holding on by a thread, if that, that was simultaneously moved over to another department along with all other such product lines. That it got the ax is a necessary coincidence.

I quite frankly see it as an aqnnouncement of nothing planned for a bit, they wouldnt do orginized play for a game never coming back.
Everything coming out for legion, including the new faction, are all made from FFG. the Armada stuff was the last of it. they had a roadmap but from what i hear not much of what FFG started is being continued.

Well, I do remember when Armada first came out and it was mostly the comparison with X-Wing that hurted it - Armada was way more expensive (because bigger battle scale and bigger ships, duh) and at that time, X-Wing was still seen as a good cheap game you can have fun with with just a couple of ships so the investment wasn't that big.

Armada was nothing like that. Also troubles with the scales of fighters / ships that weren't really coherent with Star War's background (for game's sake and visual design, IMHO) and...let's say a more complicated set of rules didn't help for attracting a lot of players.

Asmodée is certainly a worse company than GW towards customers so I'm not surprised to have this announcement. FFG games are all fated to die if they don't bring huge amounts of cash to their corporate overlords, anyway. That's why the Runewars debacle left me indifferent. It was to be expected, it's their business model and their weird release calendar that killed it.

The price point is a bugbear of mine.

The bigger ships from what I’ve seen are really nice, and a decent size. I’d happily get some for display, but man…..the price,