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Made in gb
Dakka Veteran




Kairic Acolytes (Troops, Power Rating 3)
The mortal levies of the Thousand Sons are drawn from secret cults and mutant rebels across the Imperium, but few are ever inducted into the deeper mysteries of the Warp. Those dubbed Kairic Acolytes are the exception, for each is a potential inductee into the Legion itself, instructed in fragments of magical knowledge and implanted with a sliver of mutant gene-seed. The vast majority will fail, whether sabotaged by scheming allies or simply undone by the writhing, sorcerous flesh within - but hope springs eternal. On the battlefield, the Acolytes support their teachers with fiery cantrips and occult chants, wielding cursed blades forged in daemonfire.
9-19 Kairic Acolyte: M 6"; WS 4+; BS 4+; S 3; T 3; W 1; A 1; Ld 6; Sv 6+
1 Kairic Adept: M 6”; WS 4+; BS 4+; S 3; T 3; W 1; A 2; Ld 7; Sv 6+
If this unit contains between 11 and 20 models, it has Power Rating 6. Every model is equipped with: coruscating flames; cursed blade; arcanite shield.

Wargear
  • Coruscating flames: Range 18”; Type Assault 2; Strength User; AP 0; Damage 1; Abilities: -
  • Vulcharch: Range 24”; Assault 1; Strength 3; AP -1; Damage 1; Abilities: This weapon can target units that are not visible to the bearer, and each time you select a target for this weapon, you can ignore the Look Out, Sir rule. Each time an attack is made with this weapon, an unmodified wound roll of 6 inflicts 1 mortal wound on the target in addition to any normal damage. If the target is a PSYKER unit or a PRIEST unit, it instead suffers 1 mortal wound on an unmodified wound roll of 2+.
  • Cursed blade: Range Melee; Type Melee; Strength User; AP -1; Damage 1; Abilities: Each time an attack is made with this weapon, if the bearer is equipped with 2 cursed blades, you can re-roll the wound roll.

  • Arcanite shield: The bearer has a 6+ invulnerable save. Each time an invulnerable saving throw is made for the bearer against a melee attack, on an unmodified saving roll of 6, the attacking model's unit suffers 1 mortal wound after its shooting is resolved.
  • Scroll of dark arts: Once per battle, at the start of your Psychic phase, if the bearer is on the battlefield, it can read from its scroll. If it does so, you generate D3 additional Cabal points.

  • Wargear Options
  • All of the models in the unit can each have their arcanite shield replaced with 1 cursed blade.
  • For every 10 models in this unit, up to 2 Kairic Acolytes can each be equipped with a different item from the following list: 1 scroll of dark arts; 1 vulcharc.

  • Abilities
  • Cabbalistic Rituals: See Codex: Thousand Sons.
  • Acolytes: Each time this unit successfully manifests the Smite psychic power, the number of mortal wounds it inflicts is halved.
  • Aspirants: This unit has the ARCANA ASTARTES keyword for the purposes of all Thousand Sons Detachment abilities (Objective Secured, Brotherhood of Sorcerers, etc.).
  • Sorcerous Chant: This unit can attempt the following psychic action: ‘Sorcerous Chant (Psychic Action - Warp Charge 6): Any number of KAIRIC ACOLYTE PSYKER units from your army can attempt to perform this psychic action in your Psychic phase. If the action is a success, select one friendly THOUSAND SONS ARCANA ASTARTES PSYKER unit that is within 9” of the unit performing the psychic action and has not been selected for this action in this phase. You can attempt to manifest one additional psychic power with that unit this phase.’

  • Psyker
    This unit can attempt to manifest one psychic power in your Psychic phase and attempt to deny one psychic power in your opponent’s Psychic phase. It knows Smite.

    Keywords
  • Faction: CHAOS, TZEENTCH, THOUSAND SONS, <GREAT CULT>
  • Keywords: INFANTRY, PSYKER, CULTISTS, KAIRIC ACOLYTES

  • Points Costs
    Spoiler:
  • Kairic Acolyte: 6 points
  • Kairic Adept: 6 points

  • Scroll of dark arts: 5 points
  • Vulcharc: 5 points

  • This message was edited 8 times. Last update was at 2021/08/24 20:34:28


     
       
    Made in us
    Fixture of Dakka





    Very cool. My own Thousand Sons army's fluff revolves around the recruitment of mortal psykers, so I wish there were more units like this one readily available to chaos. (Even having access to wyrdvane and primaris psykers would be nice.) Some disorganized thoughts:

    * Corscuating Flames: S: User is an interesting choice. Is the intention that you use a psychic power from a sorcerer to up their strength thus upping their power as well as their melee power? I like that.

    * Maybe add a wargear option in the same slot as the scroll and vulcharc to let them cast a psychic power (or use a psychic action) in the Psychic Phase to buff their Coruscating Flames strength until the end of the turn?

    * The vulcharc is interesting. Doing mortal wounds on a 2+ against GK, 1k Sons, and Tzeentch daemon opponents jumped out at me as a red flag, but their limited availability (despite the low unit cost) and 4+ BS probably keep these from being OP. Being able to harass the enemy from beyond line of sight could give the unit as a whole an interesting role, and the limited range forces you to keep them close enough to the enemy force to sweat a little. I think I like it.

    Oh, and I assume it's intentional that a model can be equipped with both flames and a vulcharc (and thus shoot both)?

    Fluff-wise, is this a gun? A daemon bird thing? Something else?

    * Cursed Blades: Rerolling to-wound rolls is an interesting choice. Any particular reason you didn't make the second blade offer +1 Attacks instead? Both work. Just curious about your thought process.

    * Arcanite Shield: I love me some, "stop hitting yourself," mechanics. I wonder if the low invul save makes this a worse option than the second blade though. The double blades will up the amount of damage you do every time you fight. The shield will only up your damage when you're getting wailed on, and the 6+ invul isn't going to add a ton to your survivability. I guess the advantage of the shield is that you might take some enemies with you when you get charged, but a 10 man squad will average less than 2 MW via their shields before they die.

    But also, this unit is very cheap, so I get that you don't want to make them too badass.

    * I really like Sorcerous Chant. This is exactly the sort of thing I want 1k Sons' mortal supporters to do.

    * Don't forget to give the unit the Psyker keyword.

    * These guys are cool, but their limited ability set doesn't quite scratch my itch for mortal psykers with a variety of powers supported by units that utilize those powers. I might have to stat that concept up and share it on here if no one beats me to it.


    ATTENTION
    . Psychic tests are unfluffy. Your longing for AV is understandable but misguided. Your chapter doesn't need a separate codex. Doctrines should go away. Being a "troop" means nothing. This has been a cranky service announcement. You may now resume your regularly scheduled arguing.
     
       
    Made in gb
    Dakka Veteran




    Wyldhunt wrote:
    Very cool. My own Thousand Sons army's fluff revolves around the recruitment of mortal psykers, so I wish there were more units like this one readily available to chaos. (Even having access to wyrdvane and primaris psykers would be nice.) Some disorganized thoughts:
    Yeah, in general mortal cultists and followers seem to have been unnecessarily neglected in 9e; it feels like backlash against the way Cultists dominated CSM lists in 8e. Adding more specific "cult" troops seemed like a reasonable workaround.

    Wyldhunt wrote:
    * Corscuating Flames: S: User is an interesting choice. Is the intention that you use a psychic power from a sorcerer to up their strength thus upping their power as well as their melee power? I like that.
    * Maybe add a wargear option in the same slot as the scroll and vulcharc to let them cast a psychic power (or use a psychic action) in the Psychic Phase to buff their Coruscating Flames strength until the end of the turn?
    Coruscating flames are actually just copied direct from Horrors, who do have a few ways to up their Strength. The eventual intent was to also add "Conjured Horrors" etc as an option for TS, and make warpflamers, coruscating flames, etc, all part of the same "flame weapons" list, but I haven't got around to that. In the meantime, it's just... a thing they do. Watch this space, I guess!

    Scroll of Dark Arts is basically just the new Icon of Flame, but with tweaked mechanics to feel different and suit the unit. It "gives" you 2 CP in one blob, instead of 1 CP each round, meaning you can sacrifice the Acolytes more freely once you've used it.
    Wyldhunt wrote:
    * The vulcharc is interesting. Doing mortal wounds on a 2+ against GK, 1k Sons, and Tzeentch daemon opponents jumped out at me as a red flag, but their limited availability (despite the low unit cost) and 4+ BS probably keep these from being OP. Being able to harass the enemy from beyond line of sight could give the unit as a whole an interesting role, and the limited range forces you to keep them close enough to the enemy force to sweat a little. I think I like it.
    It's sort of balanced against other, similar snipers; a mortal wound on a 4+/6+, on a 24" S3 AP-1 weapon, is weak even for a sniper. It makes up for it with the . The anti-PSYKER trait allows it to act as active anti-Deny (with it also hitting PRIESTS, who often have Deny tech), but it's still a 4+/2+ within 24", meaning you're doing less average damage than any of the "good" sniper rifles; no-one takes a Hexrifle, and even with a move-and-shoot penalty that'll still land as much damage on anyone as a Vulcharch will do against a Sorcerer or Librarian (and three times as much against anyone else) with less range.

    Wyldhunt wrote:
    Oh, and I assume it's intentional that a model can be equipped with both flames and a vulcharc (and thus shoot both)?
    Fluff-wise, is this a gun? A daemon bird thing? Something else?
    Yes, it's intentional, and oh, whoops – yes, it's a bird. Realised I forgot to include a link; the whole unit is just these guys: https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Kairic-Acolytes

    Wyldhunt wrote:
    * Cursed Blades: Rerolling to-wound rolls is an interesting choice. Any particular reason you didn't make the second blade offer +1 Attacks instead? Both work. Just curious about your thought process.

    * Arcanite Shield: I love me some, "stop hitting yourself," mechanics. I wonder if the low invul save makes this a worse option than the second blade though. The double blades will up the amount of damage you do every time you fight. The shield will only up your damage when you're getting wailed on, and the 6+ invul isn't going to add a ton to your survivability. I guess the advantage of the shield is that you might take some enemies with you when you get charged, but a 10 man squad will average less than 2 MW via their shields before they die.

    But also, this unit is very cheap, so I get that you don't want to make them too badass.
    These guys are sort of meant to be the "ranged answer" to Tzaangors, with an 18" shotgun and a Sorcerer-boost, so I didn't want to emphasise melee too much – the cursed blades/arcanite shields are an option, because those models exist, but making them especially buff in melee wasn't the intent. Partly because, as you've noted, that'd drive up their cost. Re-rolling wound rolls isn't much weaker than +1A, in practice, but it's less likely to explode. Then again, Chaos Cultists can get 2A and a pistol without trading on Tzaangor toes, so just making "Twin Cursed Blades" into a Chainsword/Brutal Assault Weapon might not be the worst idea. Would need to drop the AP-1 entirely to ensure the costing's okay compared to Cultists.

    Same deal with the shields – I'd actually also add those as an option for Tzaangors, who can after all use them in AoS (probably up their "autopistols" to S4, too – so you've got either the ranged aspect or the +1AP of the double-blades).

    Note that since these guys benefit from Brotherhood of Sorcerers, they get a 5+ invulnerable save regardless – the arcanite shield just means you're bouncing back damage on every other save. It might be worth extending the mortal wounds to ranged attacks, as well, but I suspect that would make them too scary as Objective-Squatters; get a blob of 20, and it'll only take 30 wounds to kill them, but they'll do 5MW back in the process.

    Wyldhunt wrote:
    * I really like Sorcerous Chant. This is exactly the sort of thing I want 1k Sons' mortal supporters to do.

    * Don't forget to give the unit the Psyker keyword.

    * These guys are cool, but their limited ability set doesn't quite scratch my itch for mortal psykers with a variety of powers supported by units that utilize those powers. I might have to stat that concept up and share it on here if no one beats me to it.
    Good catch on the PSYKER keyword.

    I'm glad you like Sorcerous Chant. AoS handles "minor wizards" by just giving them a preset spell baked into their warscroll, and psychic actions seem like a possible mechanical workaround to the "no more than one of each power per round" restriction without just adding "you can do this more than once" to every power. I'm definitely going to reuse that tech on Horrors, who currently are useless for Smite purposes but also can't do much of anything else.

    I didn't want to turn these guys into another Smite battery, or give them access to the full range of THOUSAND SONS powers, not least because their cheapness meant that could potentially be too strong. However, I also wanted them to be "minor sorcerers" – so giving another THOUSAND SONS PSYKER another power to use each round seemed like a decent compromise, and a fluffy one to boot. They're basically a "+0.5" power – you keep them hanging around a Rubric squad or something, and that Aspiring Sorcerer gets to Smite and use another power. Warp Charge 6 looks a little high, but with Brotherhood of Sorcerers is effectively a 2+ (83%).

    What sort of extra capabilities were you thinking of? I did consider creating a "minor Discipline" of weaker powers for cultists, horrors, etc to draw from, but that felt like a lot of work and potential mishaps for a fairly niche application. I could give them a half-damage Smite? Or an alternative "Psychic Action" that generates Cabal Points or ups the Strength of the unit?

    This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/24 13:17:55


     
       
    Made in us
    Fixture of Dakka





    Note that since these guys benefit from Brotherhood of Sorcerers, they get a 5+ invulnerable save regardless – the arcanite shield just means you're bouncing back damage on every other save. It might be worth extending the mortal wounds to ranged attacks, as well, but I suspect that would make them too scary as Objective-Squatters; get a blob of 20, and it'll only take 30 wounds to kill them, but they'll do 5MW back in the process.

    My preordered 1k Sons 'dex is stuck in the warp at the moment, so I totally missed that they have a 5+ invul. The shields are probably in a decent place. 5++ is probably the sweet spot for leaving these guys squishy but not so squishy that the shield doesn't seem worth it.

    What sort of extra capabilities were you thinking of? I did consider creating a "minor Discipline" of weaker powers for cultists, horrors, etc to draw from, but that felt like a lot of work and potential mishaps for a fairly niche application. I could give them a half-damage Smite? Or an alternative "Psychic Action" that generates Cabal Points or ups the Strength of the unit?


    My half-baked idea is to have something comparable to guard infantry units that have trained to utilize the psychic tricks of their squad's psyker. Think the geno guys from Legion or Clive Barker's Jericho (but the magic dudes don't carry the big guns themselves.) So things like...

    * Scryers that help mortar and sniper teams land their shots.

    *Precogs that let their unit overwatch and auspex scan.

    * Pyrokineticists that can increase the range or shots of flamers.

    * Telekineticists that put up forcefields and accelerate their squad's stubber shots to hit harder.

    * Cybertheurgists that can mess with machine spirits or buff allied machines.

    That sort of thing. The wrench in the works I keep stumbling on is that some of those abilities seem like they ought to be overt enough to warrant psychic tests, but...
    A.) Randomly failing your psychic tests or being denied basically turns these guys into worse guard units.
    B.) I feel like this army would just be much easier/enjoyable to pilot/resolve if their powers were more like oldschool "always on" warlock powers rather than having to roll and bookkeep a ton of psychic tests. But they're also meant to be "mere mortals," so making them less likely to fail a psychic test than eldar and marines feels off.


    ATTENTION
    . Psychic tests are unfluffy. Your longing for AV is understandable but misguided. Your chapter doesn't need a separate codex. Doctrines should go away. Being a "troop" means nothing. This has been a cranky service announcement. You may now resume your regularly scheduled arguing.
     
       
    Made in gb
    Dakka Veteran




    Wyldhunt wrote:
    My half-baked idea is to have something comparable to guard infantry units that have trained to utilize the psychic tricks of their squad's psyker. Think the geno guys from Legion or Clive Barker's Jericho (but the magic dudes don't carry the big guns themselves.) So things like...

    * Scryers that help mortar and sniper teams land their shots.

    *Precogs that let their unit overwatch and auspex scan.

    * Pyrokineticists that can increase the range or shots of flamers.

    * Telekineticists that put up forcefields and accelerate their squad's stubber shots to hit harder.

    * Cybertheurgists that can mess with machine spirits or buff allied machines.

    That sort of thing. The wrench in the works I keep stumbling on is that some of those abilities seem like they ought to be overt enough to warrant psychic tests, but...
    A.) Randomly failing your psychic tests or being denied basically turns these guys into worse guard units.
    B.) I feel like this army would just be much easier/enjoyable to pilot/resolve if their powers were more like oldschool "always on" warlock powers rather than having to roll and bookkeep a ton of psychic tests. But they're also meant to be "mere mortals," so making them less likely to fail a psychic test than eldar and marines feels off.
    This sort of set up feels like a casualty of 8e-9e's treatment of the Psychic phase, to be honest; there aren't any Psychic "resources" to play with, and no real reason to make something a Psychic power unless you want it to potentially fail, be Denied, provoke Perils, and be usable a maximum of once per turn. That's the only difference between Orders and a Psychic power with the same effect; Orders don't fail, can't be Denied, and can be repeated. There's also no list of "generic" Psychic powers you can draw from for something like this.

    I think you could make these into passive benefits without much lore trouble; effects like Synapse or the Spiritseer's aura are technically psychic abilities, they're just not represented with a Psychic test or any of the other rigamarole. The main reason to make them Psychic effects – Psychic actions are probably the best workaround to the lack of repeatability, unless you just want to make a new Discipline that allows for repeat casts – is if you want them to be a bit stronger than they otherwise would be, with potential failure as the justification for the increased power.
       
    Made in us
    Fixture of Dakka





    RevlidRas wrote:

    This sort of set up feels like a casualty of 8e-9e's treatment of the Psychic phase, to be honest;

    Absolutely. You've seen my post on making psychic powers less lolrandumb. Sometimes I wish 40k just slapped a "Psychic" keyword on some special rules but otherwise left them as mostly standard special abilities.

    I guess you could make my Jericho dudes' powers into special abilities but include a stratagem your opponent can use to attempt a Deny the Witch (flat difficulty 7) to turn off those special abilities for a turn. And then maybe make some stratagems that let the psykers use bigger, flashier, actual psychic powers at your discretion. So psychic defenses aren't totally ignored, but players won't be throwing around big powers or DtW left and right.

    So the pyrokineticist in the squad of flamer specialists passively boosts the number of shots on their flamers as a special ability that requires no psychic test. If your opponent wants, they can spend 1CP to try to DtWitch vs a difficulty of 7 to turn off that special ability until your next psychic phase. And you can spend 1CP to learn the "Burning Blast" psychic power until the end of the psychic phase.



    ATTENTION
    . Psychic tests are unfluffy. Your longing for AV is understandable but misguided. Your chapter doesn't need a separate codex. Doctrines should go away. Being a "troop" means nothing. This has been a cranky service announcement. You may now resume your regularly scheduled arguing.
     
       
    Made in gb
    Dakka Veteran




    Wyldhunt wrote:
    I guess you could make my Jericho dudes' powers into special abilities but include a stratagem your opponent can use to attempt a Deny the Witch (flat difficulty 7) to turn off those special abilities for a turn. And then maybe make some stratagems that let the psykers use bigger, flashier, actual psychic powers at your discretion. So psychic defenses aren't totally ignored, but players won't be throwing around big powers or DtW left and right.

    So the pyrokineticist in the squad of flamer specialists passively boosts the number of shots on their flamers as a special ability that requires no psychic test. If your opponent wants, they can spend 1CP to try to DtWitch vs a difficulty of 7 to turn off that special ability until your next psychic phase. And you can spend 1CP to learn the "Burning Blast" psychic power until the end of the psychic phase.
    Could always borrow the old "bound spells" system from Warhammer Fantasy; just a pre-set Psychic test result.

    This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/26 01:48:10


     
       
     
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