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Made in us
On a Canoptek Spyder's Waiting List




So my group and I are new to 40k. We aren't seeing eye to eye on a lot of Death Guard rules.

On Hysterical Fury gives the harlequins +1 attacks on a charge.
Revolting Stench says Never counts as having made a charge move this turn, irrespective of any abilities that unit may have.

We have many questions about this.
1. We know it has a 6" range for the aura so if you start outside this it doesn't effect you correct?
2. If it doesn't what happens if you fallback and charge in the same turn?
3. Does this take away the hysterical Fury +1 on a charge if in range?
4. The "irrespective of any abilities that unit may have" lets say someone had something that allowed them to go first does the attacker rule come into play?

Thanks for any help.

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Longtime Dakkanaut




We'd need the specific wording of Revolting Stench but my understanding, from memory, is that it basically makes the unit not count as charging at all, so any and all rules that require the unit to have charged do not apply. Also from memory, I believe it works at the beginning of the Fight phase so it's possible to start the Fight phase outside the 6" range then pile-in within that range and not be affected.
   
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Longtime Dakkanaut




Central California

The basic answer is Most auras are always on.
Without the exact wording, I can only say that Aura's affect any model within it's range. So, when a model is chosen to fight in the fight phase, if it is in range of the aura, the aura removes any bonus they received for charging, as they do not count as having charged this turn.
so:
1: It affects you if you end your charge within the aura's range. Again, I believe this aura is checked at the beginning of the fight phase, when a unit is chosen to fight. So, you fall back, charge, and let's say are back within the aura. When you chose the Harlies to fight, they count as if they did not charge (due to the aura) and do not get the +1A. Unless the aura says something like "check the aura range before moving the model, or in the move phase etc. which would make the aura useless...
2: See 1 above
3: If Hysterical Fury says the unit receives +1 strength if it charged this turn, yes the aura removes it as the unit does not count as charging while within the aura (in the fight phase).
4: Not sure the exact question here. If my unit has an ability that says "this unit fight's first in a turn in which it charged" the aura says I do not count as charging while within it, and therefore I do not get any abilities based on charging. I am not clear on what you mean by the "attacker" rule. THe rule on sequencing is meaningless. If you mean attacker chooses a unit that charged or has fight first, first, it is unaffected by the aura, in that the aura simply removes any abilities based on having charged. A unit that charges a unit with this aura, counts as a unit that didn not charge in the fight phase sequencing.

Keeping the hobby side alive!

I never forget the Dakka unit scale is binary: Units are either OP or Garbage. 
   
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Slipspace wrote:
We'd need the specific wording of Revolting Stench but my understanding, from memory, is that it basically makes the unit not count as charging at all, so any and all rules that require the unit to have charged do not apply. Also from memory, I believe it works at the beginning of the Fight phase so it's possible to start the Fight phase outside the 6" range then pile-in within that range and not be affected.


He is the whole text
"While an enemy unit is within 6" of the bearer, that unit cannot make use of any rules that allow it to fight first and never counts as having made a charge move this turn, irrespective of any abilities that unit may have."

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edwardmyst wrote:

4: Not sure the exact question here. If my unit has an ability that says "this unit fight's first in a turn in which it charged" the aura says I do not count as charging while within it, and therefore I do not get any abilities based on charging. I am not clear on what you mean by the "attacker" rule. THe rule on sequencing is meaningless. If you mean attacker chooses a unit that charged or has fight first, first, it is unaffected by the aura, in that the aura simply removes any abilities based on having charged. A unit that charges a unit with this aura, counts as a unit that didn not charge in the fight phase sequencing.


See attached my group has had lots of disagreements on what this means.
[Thumb - Attacker's Priority.png]


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Longtime Dakkanaut




Abarb wrote:
Slipspace wrote:
We'd need the specific wording of Revolting Stench but my understanding, from memory, is that it basically makes the unit not count as charging at all, so any and all rules that require the unit to have charged do not apply. Also from memory, I believe it works at the beginning of the Fight phase so it's possible to start the Fight phase outside the 6" range then pile-in within that range and not be affected.


He is the whole text
"While an enemy unit is within 6" of the bearer, that unit cannot make use of any rules that allow it to fight first and never counts as having made a charge move this turn, irrespective of any abilities that unit may have."


That's a fantastically poorly written rule. That causes problems because units can be outside of 6" when chosen to fight but move to within 6" when they pile-in, which is why I assumed it was a "start of Fight phase" effect. As best as I can tell, if a unit starts within 6" at the beginning of the Fight phase it doesn't strike first and doesn't get any other bonus that applies when charging (Shock Assault etc).

However, if the unit charged but starts outside of 6", then moves within the aura's effect the unit should still fight first because you've already started the Fight sequence with it and you can't just abandon that halfway through. It looks like it would not get any other charge bonus though as it's now within 6".

This is why Universal Special Rules are vastly superior to GW's approach. With USRs you can map out every interaction really easily and, if you want, call out specific exceptions too. GW's approach leaves us in this limbo of not being 100% sure what they meant a lot of the time.
   
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Painlord Titan Princeps of Slaanesh




Assuming that is the complete rule then you would check to see if the unit is within 6" when you select it to fight. If it is within 6" then it does not count as having any rule that allows it to fight first (such as having charged) and it loses any other special ability(s) that it may normally gain for having charged (such as the CSM rule Hateful Assault wihich gives +1A to units that charge that turn). This may force you to select another unit that does still have the fight first rule if your original selection loses their version.

I would just see where everything is at the end of all the charge moves and every unit within 6" would be treated as not having charged or having the fight first rule. Then just proceed as normal.
   
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Longtime Dakkanaut




Central California

Ah, I had forgotten that rule was named Attacker's Priority. It has not been cleared up, and is another of GW's poor planning in rules writing. There has been a lot of arguments that "specific" overwrites "non-specific" meaning rules in a codex overwrite rules in the BRB. Also, the phrase " any and all abilities" seems to eliminate the ability, and as such there would be no ability to include in "attacker's priority".
The problem is, using attacker's priority would basically mean the aura is near useless. It removes the Charged caveat from any unit within 6" (and therefore any ability that only happens when the Charged caveat is in place), which can only happen on your opponent's turn (with a very few exceptions), and therefore your opponent would always have "attacker's Priority" to ignore it. As to swing first if I charged...well, same thing. So, if you really have a player who wants to argue that the Deathguard's ability Revolting Stench is inherently useless, good luck solving this.

The rule removes the Charged caveat, that is how my group plays it. I am not sure GW has clarified this. Maybe a discuss before game thing?

Keeping the hobby side alive!

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Pestilent Plague Marine with Blight Grenade





The Frozen North

If a unit begins the Fight Phase within range of the Foul Blightspawn, they cannot benefit from any rules which allow them to strike first and do not count as having charged.

If a unit begins the Fight Phase outside of range of the Foul Blightspawn, but subsequently moves within its range during their activation, they will lose the benefit of any rules which rely on having performed a charge move (for instance, Shock Assault) - though as they have already been chosen to fight, it is too late to prevent them from being nominated to fight.

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Confessor Of Sins





Tacoma, WA, USA

I completely concur with MinMax's analysis. So to answer the OPs questions
Abarb wrote:
On Hysterical Fury gives the harlequins +1 attacks on a charge.
Revolting Stench says Never counts as having made a charge move this turn, irrespective of any abilities that unit may have.

We have many questions about this.
1. We know it has a 6" range for the aura so if you start outside this it doesn't effect you correct?
Yes and No. At the instance you need to reference a rule, you are affected by the aura if you are in range. That means it can change from moment to moment.
2. If it doesn't what happens if you fallback and charge in the same turn?
It has no interaction with Fall Back. It only has an effect during the Fight phase. If you are in range of the aura when you want to benefit from a rule that required you to have made a Charge Move, you can't use it.
3. Does this take away the hysterical Fury +1 on a charge if in range?
Yes. If in range of the aura, you don't count as having made a Charge Move and thus cannot gain a benefit that requires you to have made a Charge Move.
4. The "irrespective of any abilities that unit may have" lets say someone had something that allowed them to go first does the attacker rule come into play?
This overrides the Attacker Priority Rule. So a unit that has a rule that says "This unit always fights first, even on turns it did not charge" cannot benefit from that rule.
   
 
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