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Made in gb
Esteemed Veteran Space Marine






Northumberland

I'm wanting to attempt some candy colours (tinted metallics) on an upcoming project, but I'm having difficulty with preserving the metallic shine of the base colour through the top coat of coloured ink. Has anyone got any tips, tricks or suggestions for how I can get a nice high contrast, shiny candy colour?

My current technique is just a zenithal coat of two metallic silvers (on test swatches so far), then several coats of ink over the top until I build up the right tone. Unfortunately, the act of building up the tone is somewhat reducing the metallic sheen underneath. Any way I can get the best of both worlds (intensity and sheen)?

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Numine Et Arcu
 
   
Made in us
The Marine Standing Behind Marneus Calgar





Upstate, New York

This might be the wrong answer, but gloss varnish? Seems the easy way to get that candy shine back.

Full disclosure: never tried, just spitballing ideas. Take with salt, YMMV, etc…

   
Made in gb
Esteemed Veteran Space Marine






Northumberland

Nah that's an alreet shout Nev . I had thought that perhaps an intermediate gloss might give it a higher shine for the ink to coat, and then a final gloss to enhance it. The issue is that a metallic shine isn't quite the same as a full gloss, because the metallic flakes catch light at fractionally different angles which gets you that sparkle. But an overall gloss is uniform - so I assume it'll come out with a glass shine, rather than metallic.

Good suggestion nevertheless - I shall give it a go on my test swatches anyway. That said, I'm still open to any other suggestions

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Made in gb
[DCM]
Fireknife Shas'el





Leicester

You might want your metallics to be "harder" than zenithal? Whenever I've seen zenithal done, it has quite a diffuse effect, which might not have enough intensity to punch through the layers.

I've used both washes and technical paints; the washes tends to be a more matt, iridescent effect, while the technicals (gemstone, etc.) give you that bright candy shine. They have a much thicker texture (more like varnish), so you could try mixing ink into varnish. Also generally only needs a single layer, which should help preserve the base coat.

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 Zed wrote:
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Made in gb
Esteemed Veteran Space Marine






Northumberland

I think that may also help Jadenim - higher contrast could be good to help sell the effect and give the silver some punch. Fortunately, I half-anticipated this and bought some Metallic Black alongside my required ink tints - so assuming it's metallic enough, perhaps I'll substitute that in to deepen the shadows (instead of the Leadbelcher I'm currently testing)

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Numine Et Arcu
 
   
Made in us
The Marine Standing Behind Marneus Calgar





Upstate, New York

As a datapoint of technicals over metallics:


This is Blood for the Blood God over black that was drybrushed with leadbelcher. (Which is what the rest of the harnesses/console still is).

Crappy old workbench WIP shot, but a vague idea. Just one coat.

   
Made in us
Ancient Venerable Dreadnought




San Jose, CA

In the past I've had success(painting model cars) using a very aggressive(i.e. abrupt rather than gradual) zenithal. Then going an an painting the very brightest parts with as stark a white you can get. Then pick a very bright metallic and follow up w your choice of inks(Tamiya clears kick ass at this) in very thin layers building up to the colour you want. It pretty much works for irrespective of the candy colour you're going for.

When I get my airbrush/spray booth I'm gonna tackle my Bloody Rose in a candy blood red. Currently they're in same as above with blood Angels red contrast replacing the tamiya.
   
Made in us
Focused Fire Warrior




Les Etats Unis

I've seen a lot of people find success in this field by using contast paints over metallics rather than regular inks. It's what I'm currently doing with my Alpha Legion army, and the added pigment of the contrasts help out a ton in this department. There's an official GW article about it you can find if you really want to, but for real-life results, I was personally sold by the model shown at 1:42 of this video:




Heavily applying the contrast can reduce the metallic effect, and lightly doing so can increase it, depending on how bright you want the color to be. Do be warned, though; the way contrast paints work makes it really easy to get a non-uniform color scheme if you're not careful, a fact which I believe is brought up in the video.

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Made in us
Dakka Veteran





I will second this. Contrast over silver has become my go to for small areas like screens and cockpits.
   
Made in ca
Commander of the Mysterious 2nd Legion





contrast is a god send for this type of thing.

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in gb
Thane of Dol Guldur





Bodt

Second for using contrast. I did this over a metallic basecoat for my alpharius and it worked very well. Apply through an airbrush for best effect. Brush application can often be too heavy.

I know you're a scale modeller so i would also say, depending on what it is you're working on, you could try actual candy paints. I've used house of kolor candy automotive paints on sign projects before. I sprayed a craft store glitter paint over the metallic, then put the house of kolor through the airbrush over the top. They are very nice paints, however they are expensive and require a lacquer thinner, so it depends on how much you're willing to spend ha.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/09/01 07:35:28


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Made in gb
Esteemed Veteran Space Marine






Northumberland

@Nev - Thanks for that shot, always helps to put words to a finished effect. the effect you have there is basically the stage I'm at. It's good, but just still a little less sparkly than I was hoping for. Although, perhaps I need to limit my expectations and realise that a coloured metallic and a candy metallic are always going to produce different intensities of shine .

@Racerguy180 - So +1 for the increased contrast. Good to know that I'm on the right lines with that. I've bought a range of metallic silvers of various shades, so I'll try and push the intesity of the effect with those. Thanks!

@Flipsiders, Veldrain, BrianDavion - Thanks chaps/chapettes. I had thought of contrast paints, but basically discarded the idea because I thought there was only the primary colours. I now see there are 34 shades, including some useful ones, and I'm thoroughly kicking myself . Fortunately, I'll be painting 3D prints, so if this goes south I can always print some fresh ones and use contrasts

@QAR - Surprisingly, I'm not working on a scale model this time! It's for the Dakka UPC this month, so I'll leave the surprise for there Appreciate the idea for the automotive lacquers. I think I'll avoid those for now, simply because the scale I'm doing probably doesn't warrant either the clean-up or the cost. But I do have plans for some scale cars at some point, so I'll look into those

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Numine Et Arcu
 
   
Made in us
Utilizing Careful Highlighting





Stupid further thoughts, I know liquitex (and possibly vallejo) sells metallic and iridescent mediums, basically unpigmented metallic paint. Could you mix some of that in with your ink to get the sparkle back?
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





Another post in support for Contast. If you don't have an airbrush, thin it with either contrast or lahmean (matte) medium in a 2:1 (medium:Contrast) mix and apply multiple layers to avoid any splotches.

The blue used Contrast and the "old brass" was Contrast with a tiny bit of Athonian Camoshade (dinge green), with Coal Black added to the recesses and a Drybrush of Liberator Gold to add to the effect.
[Thumb - 20210807_233520.jpg]

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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/01 16:18:09


 
   
Made in us
Grisly Ghost Ark Driver






 Warpig1815 wrote:
I'm wanting to attempt some candy colours (tinted metallics) on an upcoming project, but I'm having difficulty with preserving the metallic shine of the base colour through the top coat of coloured ink. Has anyone got any tips, tricks or suggestions for how I can get a nice high contrast, shiny candy colour?

My current technique is just a zenithal coat of two metallic silvers (on test swatches so far), then several coats of ink over the top until I build up the right tone. Unfortunately, the act of building up the tone is somewhat reducing the metallic sheen underneath. Any way I can get the best of both worlds (intensity and sheen)?
Vallejo has a Metal Medium. You add your chosen pigment to get the metallic of your choice. I've used it with a red ink. In practice, I've found it isn't that different than using several coats of ink over a silver base, but I've not tried it with a paint yet. Just an option for your consideration.

@Arcanis161: That's a fine looking Assault marine you've painted. Good job!

Kings of War: Abyssal Dwarves, Dwarves, Elves, Undead, Northern Alliance [WiP], Nightstalkers [WiP]
Dropzone Commander: PHR
Kill Team: Deathwatch AdMech Necron

 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





Green stuff world have some videos where they airbrush their candy inks over their mystic white metallic colour to get the effect you want (I think)

I had a quick go doing it by brush but not so good. I think the candy ink needs to be thinned and applied in multiple coats. Bit of a guess
   
Made in gb
Esteemed Veteran Space Marine






Northumberland

Thanks for all the responses people.

I think I've settled on a course of action. Paradigm has suggested Vallejo's Metal Colour range, which are super shiny. So I've paired those with some deeper contrasting shades (as suggested here), and also a small bottle of metallic medium to try out. Thanks for the advice all!

EDIt: @Arcanis - That's an exceptionally nice marine, thanks for sharing .

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/01 22:02:59


Now with 100% more blog: 'Beyond the Wall'

Numine Et Arcu
 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





Vince on the hobby cheating channel on YouTube does a review of green stuff worlds metallic pigments. He paints a translucent red paint over the gold pigment and the result is spectacular I suggest you have a look as it might inspire
   
Made in gb
Esteemed Veteran Space Marine






Northumberland

I'll take a look, thanks mrFickle

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Numine Et Arcu
 
   
Made in gb
Executing Exarch





London, UK

I'd highly recommend an airbrush for this kind of thing, as QAR said, doing it by brush can be too thick and you risk ripping your paint layers by brush.

I highly recommend thinning your ink, clear or wash even if they are translucent as that allows for more control in achieving the desired effect as going too fast will mute the effect quite a lot. Inks are good as they maintain the glossy sheen of the metallics, whereas washes and normal acrylics don't. Contrast is also good but I highly recommend thinning some of them as they have very good coverage.

I'm working on my Nighthaunt using a metallic scheme with inks, contrast and washes over a metallic zenithal basecoat and would recommend getting the best metallics you can to preserve the effect.

   
Made in gb
Esteemed Veteran Space Marine






Northumberland

Thanks T.H - I didn't realise this was how you'd done your Nighthaunts when you posted them for the painting comp (And I was most impressed with them then!). I've got a bunch of stuff on the way to start experimenting (and some failed prints to tes them on), so I shall bear in mind to keep my inks thinned

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Made in us
Abel





Washington State

To get the best results of candy colors, you need an airbrush. You are applying a thin tint over a metallic and you want that metallic to still be visible.

I wanted to see if I could make an army Candy, and went with Ultramarines.

1. Primer black-- this allows for a black background with the silver metallic flakes to really reflect off from.
2. Base coat-- Vallejo Gunmetal. Or any dark silver metallic. Looking for complete coverage. Like, the entire model. Two thin coats is usually enough- you don't want to obscure details.
3. Second coat-- Vallejo Aluminum in a zenethal highlight (from the top down). This step is not critical or necessary, but it makes the model pop a little more. If you skip it, then I suggest a base coat of a brighter, neutral silver metallic.
4. Pin wash. I went with Drakenhoff Nightshade. Wish GW made it as a gloss to make it "flow" better. GW Nuln Oil/Army Painter Dark Tone/Strong Tone was too dark, and made the model look weird. Looking back, I really wonder if Druchi Violet or Carroburg Crimson would have been better. The reason why I pin wash here is because it's easy to clean up mistakes, and the wash dries matte. You want a final, glossy finish, and applying a pin wash after the candy coat would require an extra step to gloss the pin washed areas.
5. I used Tamiya Clear Coat Blue, and wish I had used a different brand of paint. Tamiya is difficult to work with. You HAVE to use Tamiya's Thinner, can't use Flow Improver, and water just gums your airbrush up. It was a frustrating experience until I figured it out. I shot about four layers, each layer was just a light coat that I allowed to dry completely before shooting the next layer. That meant waiting around four hours or more for each layer. I would shoot a bunch either early in the morning so I could shoot 'em again before bed, or just shot them in the evening so I could do a layer the next day. I found it to be critical to do light layers and let each one dry or it would be too thick obscuring details, or just look like gloss blue. The first layer made the model look like a baby blue silver. Like it just tinted the blue. Each additional layer started to act more like a tone of blue. Just gotta be patient, and let each layer dry first.
6. Now your model should like like a candy model. After this, it's all details.

You can see how my stuff came out in the following images. Not the best work, and you can see a lot of mistakes if you zoom in, but the whole army looks amazing from two feet away.







Can you do all that with a paint brush? Yeah... like the Vet Sgt's and LT's I used a red candy for their helmets and it was silver with brush painted Tamiya clear red. Looked a little too thick, but the areas are small enough that it wasn't too noticeable from two feet away. You are trying to tint the metallic with really, really thin layers of glossy paint. GW Contrast paints are just glazes, and you can get OK results with a brush. I tried it, and it was just a PITA as I had to work the color around to prevent it from coffee staining and ruining the candy effect. Small areas, I can see it being a very viable way (like a small screen as someone above mentioned). It's a pretty intense way to paint an army, and really takes a long time to get it right. Will I ever do another candy army? Not likely.

Kara Sloan shoots through Time and Design Space for a Negative Play Experience  
   
Made in us
Grisly Ghost Ark Driver






@Tyranid Horde. An unique and attractive look.

@Tamwulf. That's a fine looking army! Although your description of the process does seem tedious. Not something I'm eager to imitate. (Also, no airbrush).



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Made in us
Abel





Washington State

 Ancestral Hamster wrote:
@Tyranid Horde. An unique and attractive look.

@Tamwulf. That's a fine looking army! Although your description of the process does seem tedious. Not something I'm eager to imitate. (Also, no airbrush).




I gotta echo what Tyranid Horde said. Get the best metallics you can. I was using Vallejo, but picked up some Scale75 Speed Metal and Heavy Metal, along with Monument Hobbies Pro Acryl Silver and Dark Silver. The Scale75 stuff goes through my airbrush like butter and is awesome to lay down thin coats with. The Pro Acryl needs some thinning for the airbrush, but paint brush is great. Can't recommend either one enough. I recently added some Heavy Intercessors to my Ultramarines with the Scale75 metallics and they just look overall better then my other Intercessors.

Tedious is a good word for it. If I had to do it again, I'd probably go for brighter silvers and use a blue ink instead of the Tamiya Clears. That was most of my problems I had right there. Tamiya are alcohol(?) based acrylics and just require a totally different set of skills and tools to work with. Definitely require some kind of fume hood and mask. If anything, I'd probably try Pro Acryl Transparent Blue if I ever revisit the Ultramarines.

Paint wise? If you try and do an entire army like this using contrast you will either spend more time and effort then I did, or your army won't look that great. GW Contrast just does not work so well on large, flat surfaces where it can coffee stain (leave dark rings or pools). So tanks, dreads, vehicles in general. You can get away with it on say individual models, because they don't have many large, flat areas, but vehicles will be a problem. I would instead go for inks. Maybe add just a little acrylic medium to thicken it up a bit, just enough to make it stick to the model where you brush it. Look at the Scale75 Inktensiyt line of paints, or Pro Acryl Transparent colors. Try a couple tester models first. I did... six tester models before settling with my above painting scheme/techniques. I'm a big fan of always trying something out on a test model first.

Here are a couple links for paints:

Scale75 Metal n Alchemy range
Scale75 Inktensity
Monument Hobbies Pro Acryl

Kara Sloan shoots through Time and Design Space for a Negative Play Experience  
   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran





All my Necrons are painted using various forms of coloured metallics so I have some experience in it. The best way to get a proper candy coat is to use proper candy coat paints like Tamiya over a really smooth chrome (so generally non acrylic). But I just use the Vallejo metal colour range with an ink over top and a gloss coat if I'm going for a slightly candy effect, like orbs for example. To ensure you don't lose the shine, thin the ink with a glaze medium or even a gloss medium - not matte which will be counter productive. The medium will also help get even coverage. Metal Colour has a white aluminium colour which is great for a base coat for something bright. I like to have one very dark metallic, one mid silver and one white metallic.

 Ancestral Hamster wrote:
Vallejo has a Metal Medium. You add your chosen pigment to get the metallic of your choice. I've used it with a red ink. In practice, I've found it isn't that different than using several coats of ink over a silver base, but I've not tried it with a paint yet. Just an option for your consideration.

I have this and it's not very good. The mica flecks are really big and it just makes your paint look like glitter if you put in more than a small bit. It's good for turning dark non metal paint into slightly metal looking brighter paint but I would use a good quality white metallic every time over it.
   
 
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