Switch Theme:

Outriders : what marine company actually likes these guys?  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




The title says it all. I was gifted 6 of these guys and am having trouble finding a home for them.

Blood angels seemed good at first but they just get targeted and shot off the table before they can get anywhere/do much. Then I thought dark angels but that makes them survivable but doesn't help them much in cc, just shooting which isn't their real role.

White scars seem good too but again, they just get targeted first opportunity and die.

I then look at them and compare them to vanguard vets with jump packs and storm shields and again.... they don't seem to come out looking very good.

So where do they belong? (Dumpster not an option lol)
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut






Deathwatch can take them in units of five, making them somewhat better.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




I looked at that, it does seem to be a viable option with them at least.
   
Made in no
Liche Priest Hierophant





Bergen

Are they not one of the units that got a points increase? Witch means they where good at one point.

Most melee chapters probably want them. Custom chapter, Black Templars, Space Wolves, Blood Angels, White Scar. Probably others.

However, they have comptetition from other arias. SW have regular bikes that can compete because of the blood claw rules. Melta bikes are also bikes. Thunder Wolves also comes to mind. BA probably can do the Sanguine Guards better.

The SM codex is so bloated you either want a really good unit, or unit very good for it's role. So what you have is a very special hammer and looking for a particular nail that might not excist.

   
Made in hk
Longtime Dakkanaut





When they first came out, I heard massive cries on this forum about how OP they were. Did GW nerf them since release? Sorry if I haven't followed outriders that closely, CSM don't get such new toys. (sorry for the saltiness...lol)

What's so bad about outriders ?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/08 00:01:42


 
   
Made in ca
Secretive Dark Angels Veteran



Canada

Azuza001 wrote:
The title says it all. I was gifted 6 of these guys and am having trouble finding a home for them.

Blood angels seemed good at first but they just get targeted and shot off the table before they can get anywhere/do much. Then I thought dark angels but that makes them survivable but doesn't help them much in cc, just shooting which isn't their real role.

White scars seem good too but again, they just get targeted first opportunity and die.

I then look at them and compare them to vanguard vets with jump packs and storm shields and again.... they don't seem to come out looking very good.

So where do they belong? (Dumpster not an option lol)


Outriders are expensive for what they do right now. Having said that, I have certainly run them in my Ravenwing lists or as a Ravenwing component in a primarily Greenwing list. Having the 5++ against shooting means that they can survive the high-damage/low-density shots that can stop them getting into close combat. As Ravenwing they also have some neat Stratagems to get out of melee before your opponent gets to swing.

Since you have six, paint'em up as Ravenwing. Put them with a Ravenwing Primaris Chaplain on a Bike for funsies.

All you have to do is fire three rounds a minute, and stand 
   
Made in hk
Longtime Dakkanaut





Aren't their speed fast enough to have them zip up the board hugging behind obscuring terrain? The opponent can't shoot you if he can't see you...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/08 00:57:50


 
   
Made in au
Battlewagon Driver with Charged Engine





I mean, compared to their equivalents in other factions they're still awesome if not over powered. The only ones that could maybe exceed them would be haywire Harlies.

White Scars lets them do a massive amount of stuff, that move and advance of 20' then a charge is incredible. Pop a 1CP stat and you get to put out 9 AP1 attacks per model a turn. Your opponent then has to deal with some relatively tanky models in their frontline letting you take control of the midfield. And if you get to Turn 3 with them then you have those brutal D2 swings to mop up anything that survived the initial charge.

I wish my ork bikers were as versatile and high quality.
   
Made in us
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain






A Protoss colony world

Weapons that do d3+3 damage are very efficient vs. 4-wound models like Outriders, which is probably part of why they feel lackluster these days (since those weapons are becoming more and more common). The points hike they took was utterly unnecessary too, just more feels bad for my Primaris Ravenwing.

As for the original question, I'd say Dark Angels or White Scars would be the best chapters for Outriders, for reasons already discussed above.

My armies (re-counted and updated on 11/1/23, including modeled wargear options):
Dark Angels: ~15000 Astra Militarum: ~1200 | Adeptus Custodes: ~1900 | Imperial Knights: ~2000 | Sisters of Battle: ~3500 | Leagues of Votann: ~1200 | Tyranids: ~2600 | Stormcast Eternals: ~5000
Check out my P&M Blogs: ZergSmasher's P&M Blog | Imperial Knights blog | Board Games blog | Total models painted in 2023: 40 | Total models painted in 2024: 7 | Current main painting project: Dark Angels
 Mr_Rose wrote:
Who doesn’t love crazy mutant squawk-puppies? Eh? Nobody, that’s who.
 
   
Made in us
Ancient Venerable Dark Angels Dreadnought





I have 2x3 that are going to be used by my Ravenwing, but you do have to ask what can they realistically do for 150pts?
In ravenwing they at least have an invuln, decent strats and gain Obsec if in a pure RW detachment. This allows them to be used to take flanking positions and go after squishier secondary scoring units (if you can get there, which the smaller table has made more difficult...not for you to get there, but to avoid being taken out by enemy units that you just can't escape from).

Deathwatch can take 5 and also be obsec, but I'm honestly looking at better options for 250pts. They'll look cool though so will probably get some eventually. God knows I have enough DW shoulder pads to be used somewhere.

If the sgt could have been given a different weapon, great, but as it stands, they're chaff snuffers.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




I have been looking into deathwatch, I am thinking this is the place to put them with access to the strat to shift them into another chapters chapter tactic. Swap a squad of 5 into white scars for advance and charge seems interesting.

I originally thought dark angels myself but, and this may be just me, it seems da want bikes that can shoot well. Outriders don't shoot all that well compared to black knights or even normal bike squads with special weapon options. Outriders want to get into cc, but da don't seem to offer them much other than hit and run.

Though having said all that having hit and run and 19 attacks on the charge and 5++ invulnerable, maybe I am just looking at them to do bite off more than they can honestly chew?
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

I wish they had options for Auto-Bolt Riles.

I wish they had options...

I mean I like them in my White Scars as they fit thematically (and fun to run alongside a Primaris Bike Chaplain), but boy would they be better with Assault Weapons. Still, Advance/Charge is always an easy thing to make use of. Certainly helps them in WS armies.

 bullyboy wrote:
God knows I have enough DW shoulder pads to be used somewhere.
You'll be doing an awful lot of cutting. The Outrider kit has no separate shoulder pads.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/09/08 06:13:31


Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Deathwatch doesn't care about Outriders because they're outclassed in every aspect by the Bike/VanVet combo that a Proteus team can produce. 100 points cheaper for a combat squad, behind a 2+/4++, and most importantly retains the Infantry keyword. Yes you'll lose a few chainsword attacks, but that's more than made up for by points, and more importantly table negotiation, efficiency.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/09/08 14:00:28


 
   
Made in gb
Combat Jumping Rasyat




East of England

DW Outriders can do that trick by squadding the sarg with 4 of them, it's worth pointing out. That makes them a lot less mobile and denies the 2+/4++ shield but they will be daisychaining back to the Apoth & Dominus Aegis 9/10 times anyway. Yes their shooting and stabbing are notably better than bikers but it's the added wounds and base size that are worth considering with them.

Generally though, yeah, Sterling is right.
   
Made in ca
Poisonous Kroot Headhunter





 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I wish they had options for Auto-Bolt Riles.

I wish they had options...

I mean I like them in my White Scars as they fit thematically (and fun to run alongside a Primaris Bike Chaplain), but boy would they be better with Assault Weapons. Still, Advance/Charge is always an easy thing to make use of. Certainly helps them in WS armies.



They can use Born in the Saddle to Advance and shoot too, but it would be a lot nicer if you could use them in a larger unit to get more value. Doesn't feel that worth it for only three models.

17210 4965 3235 5350 2936 2273 1176 2675
1614 1342 1010 2000 960 1330 1040  
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




It sounds like their real issue is limit 3, followed by no options what so ever. Sigh.

At least I didn't pay for them.... but I want to find a way to make them useful in one of my armies.
   
Made in de
Boosting Black Templar Biker




Imo one of the issues besides 3 models max is the role they take. They fight like assault intercessors and shoot like regular intercessors while moving fast and being slightly more tanky due to t5. The intercessors do so as troops which makes them mandatory, so that kind of firepower/ melee is already there in every marine army, which makes the output of outriders redundant.





 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Skirmisher cavalry isn't by itself a bad role. Mobility and weight of attacks are good assets for disruption and table control. The issue is that they're simply pointed out of the realm of viability by a huge margin. Their direct competition does the same job just as well for half the cost. That makes them a never-take unfortunately.

If you're desperate to run them...just use them as regular bikes. Unless you're in a tournament, nine times out of ten if you have a pre-game chat with your opponent along the lines of "I love these models, but their rules are rubbish, are you cool with me running them as Firstborn Bikers?" you'll be just fine. They're fantastic models and I completely understand the desire to use them.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/09 12:31:36


 
   
Made in us
Rogue Daemonhunter fueled by Chaos






Toledo, OH

Outriders aren't a synergy unit, they're a datasheet unit. They're just so good on spec, you can plug them in wherever you'd like. I mean, how many buffs do you really want for a four wound 14" move unit with six attacks a piece on the charge?

Instead, look at how to build the rest of your army. since they are fast and hit pretty hard, they will always be a target. Turn that into an advantage by including other models with a gravis style profile. things like heavy intercessors, eradictors, inceptors, or even the Invader ATV all share the T5, multi-wound profile, and this kind of skew will help ensure that your opponent will struggle to wipe them all.

   
Made in gb
Crazed Spirit of the Defiler





Yeh they're largely mediocre but that's sort of a good thing. If your opponent is killing them first turn they're probably absorbing shots that would otherwise be going somewhere important.
As said above they can run independently of any buffs or support. Try not to think of them doing much in the way of offense, they're pretty tough, quick, big base size so they can move block, screen chunks of the board off etc and basically just be a big old bullet sponge distraction. Stick transhuman on them to be a roadblock.

   
Made in de
Longtime Dakkanaut



Bamberg / Erlangen

I find them way overpriced for their actual output.
19 attacks on the charge sound impressive until you do the actual math or see it on the battlefield.

I use them with massive buffs due to Crusade upgrades.

In my current setup they get +1" to charge, +1 to wound in the first round, got a 2+ WS, always count as being in Assault doctrine (so +1A and AP each) and... I still rather bring 4 Sanguinary Guard if I would go for effectiveness.

That being said, they are awesome models imho and work okayish with any melee focused chapter if you are only going for light infantry. Anything with T4 and 3+ save or better will make them bounce off.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/09/09 15:15:55


   
Made in us
Stalwart Dark Angels Space Marine




Plains World

 bullyboy wrote:
I have 2x3 that are going to be used by my Ravenwing, but you do have to ask what can they realistically do for 150pts?
In ravenwing they at least have an invuln, decent strats and gain Obsec if in a pure RW detachment. This allows them to be used to take flanking positions and go after squishier secondary scoring units (if you can get there, which the smaller table has made more difficult...not for you to get there, but to avoid being taken out by enemy units that you just can't escape from).

Deathwatch can take 5 and also be obsec, but I'm honestly looking at better options for 250pts. They'll look cool though so will probably get some eventually. God knows I have enough DW shoulder pads to be used somewhere.

If the sgt could have been given a different weapon, great, but as it stands, they're chaff snuffers.


If you're looking for cheap obsec in a Ravenwing detachment then regular bikes are probably better. Give the sergeant a lightning claw and you're set. Smaller base size also makes it easier to fit the models in where you need them.

So far for me the best use for Outriders has been to convert them into other stuff. My attack bikes and Ravenwing apothecary are all converted from Outriders. They look great next to their embiggened primaris cousins and DW terminators.
   
Made in gb
Crazed Spirit of the Defiler





 phandaal wrote:
 bullyboy wrote:
I have 2x3 that are going to be used by my Ravenwing, but you do have to ask what can they realistically do for 150pts?
In ravenwing they at least have an invuln, decent strats and gain Obsec if in a pure RW detachment. This allows them to be used to take flanking positions and go after squishier secondary scoring units (if you can get there, which the smaller table has made more difficult...not for you to get there, but to avoid being taken out by enemy units that you just can't escape from).

Deathwatch can take 5 and also be obsec, but I'm honestly looking at better options for 250pts. They'll look cool though so will probably get some eventually. God knows I have enough DW shoulder pads to be used somewhere.

If the sgt could have been given a different weapon, great, but as it stands, they're chaff snuffers.


If you're looking for cheap obsec in a Ravenwing detachment then regular bikes are probably better. Give the sergeant a lightning claw and you're set. Smaller base size also makes it easier to fit the models in where you need them.

So far for me the best use for Outriders has been to convert them into other stuff. My attack bikes and Ravenwing apothecary are all converted from Outriders. They look great next to their embiggened primaris cousins and DW terminators.


would love to see the attack bikes converted from outriders! I actually went the other way for my DW vet bikes and converted them from outriders. I'm not 100% happy with them but hopefully once painted they'll be great...

   
Made in us
Ancient Venerable Dark Angels Dreadnought





 phandaal wrote:
 bullyboy wrote:
I have 2x3 that are going to be used by my Ravenwing, but you do have to ask what can they realistically do for 150pts?
In ravenwing they at least have an invuln, decent strats and gain Obsec if in a pure RW detachment. This allows them to be used to take flanking positions and go after squishier secondary scoring units (if you can get there, which the smaller table has made more difficult...not for you to get there, but to avoid being taken out by enemy units that you just can't escape from).

Deathwatch can take 5 and also be obsec, but I'm honestly looking at better options for 250pts. They'll look cool though so will probably get some eventually. God knows I have enough DW shoulder pads to be used somewhere.

If the sgt could have been given a different weapon, great, but as it stands, they're chaff snuffers.


If you're looking for cheap obsec in a Ravenwing detachment then regular bikes are probably better. Give the sergeant a lightning claw and you're set. Smaller base size also makes it easier to fit the models in where you need them.

So far for me the best use for Outriders has been to convert them into other stuff. My attack bikes and Ravenwing apothecary are all converted from Outriders. They look great next to their embiggened primaris cousins and DW terminators.


yeah, I have 3 regular bike squads already but I still see some use for the Outriders, it's just a different role. They are a threat to soft horde type units and take a little more to take down 9especially in an army that is offering other viable targets of similar T (ATVs, Attack Bikes, stormspeeders, vengeance, etc)

   
Made in us
Never Forget Isstvan!






If you dont own the older models and want something cool looking, you can convert them into attack bikes with Multi-melta by either mounting the meltagun on a servo-arm on the back, or having 2 meltaguns on wings. They arent too far off sizewise, and they do honestly look better if done right.

JOIN MY CRUSADE and gain 4000 RT points!
http://www.eternalcrusade.com/account/sign-up/?ref_code=EC-PLCIKYCABW8PG 
   
Made in us
Stalwart Dark Angels Space Marine




Plains World

Abaddon303 wrote:
would love to see the attack bikes converted from outriders! I actually went the other way for my DW vet bikes and converted them from outriders. I'm not 100% happy with them but hopefully once painted they'll be great...


Eihnlazer wrote:If you dont own the older models and want something cool looking, you can convert them into attack bikes with Multi-melta by either mounting the meltagun on a servo-arm on the back, or having 2 meltaguns on wings. They arent too far off sizewise, and they do honestly look better if done right.


The 2 melta guns is basically what I did, and they do fit the size profile very well.

Took meltas from Centurions and shaved them down a bit, attached them to the upper parts of the bikes. Replaced the heads with Ravenwing Black Knight corvus helmets (shaved down the front gorget to accommodate the beaks) and swapped out the chainsword arms for assault Intercessor bolt pistol arms. Added some Ravenwing feather pennants to the back and it was done!

Will upload a picture if I can figure it out.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




That sounds awsome.

I am thinking of doing the attack bike route with them now or the kitbash to make them into chrs for other armies. But I see what everyone is saying. My issue with them isn't "how many buffs do I want from a unit" it's "for 150 pts, a squad of vanguard vets with jump packs and storm shields do the job of movement, cc, and survival better. "

   
Made in au
Regular Dakkanaut





I think they'll be best placed on your self, nicely painted up watching VGVs and normal bikes to their job, but better
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User





Outriders are great in melee based chapters. The key is to make sure they are in cover/hidden turn 1, then they move in and either help take an objective with another squad, or support your army vs deepstrikers/ other enemy threats. They are good in Iron Hands list as well with 6+ ignore a wound and Psysteel armor psychic power ( +1 to save )


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Blood Angels can cast a 5+ invulnerable save on them from a Librarian, so as long as you hide them turn 1 they should be fine. Id say the Blood Angels are the best overall, especially in assault doctrine.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/09/10 21:34:01


 
   
 
Forum Index » 40K General Discussion
Go to: