Switch Theme:

Cover for larger units?  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in ca
Kroot Carnivore





Quick question about cover for anyone in the know.

So, what I want to know is if there is any rule or FAQ somewhere about terrain effecting Monsters of Vehicles. For example, a monster or vehicle is mostly behind a building, or maybe visable through some windows or something. Do they get a save bonus from cover? From reading RAW it seems like they don't, even if they are mostly obscured, but I wanted to clarify just in case as that seems kinda dumb.


15000 4000 3500 2500 :tyranid: 2500 1000 1000
1000 1000 1000 1000  
   
Made in us
Never Forget Isstvan!






only a few units gain light cover from terrain, namely infantry, swarms, and beasts.

nothing else gets light cover (+1sv) from cover.

You can be obscured, by being completely behind an obscuring terrain piece.

You can benefit from dense terrain (-1 to hit), by being behind or in such terrain.

And you can benefit from defensible, or heavy cover by being inside their area.

JOIN MY CRUSADE and gain 4000 RT points!
http://www.eternalcrusade.com/account/sign-up/?ref_code=EC-PLCIKYCABW8PG 
   
Made in ca
Kroot Carnivore





 Eihnlazer wrote:
only a few units gain light cover from terrain, namely infantry, swarms, and beasts.

nothing else gets light cover (+1sv) from cover.

You can be obscured, by being completely behind an obscuring terrain piece.

You can benefit from dense terrain (-1 to hit), by being behind or in such terrain.

And you can benefit from defensible, or heavy cover by being inside their area.


Okay, interesting. So I think I might need to ask a more specific question then. There is a stratagem called Hidden Hunters that a Kroot unit that is "receiving the benefit of cover" gets and additional +1sv and -1 to be hit , over and above whatever the cover normally provides. (Though obviously if in dense, it wouldn't stack unless the shooter has +1 to hit). So, from what you've said, I could use this on Krootox, Knarloc Riders, and Greater Knarlocs if they are in Dense or Heavy cover, but not Light?

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/09/09 22:21:03


15000 4000 3500 2500 :tyranid: 2500 1000 1000
1000 1000 1000 1000  
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




Pretty sure "receiving benefit of cover" is clarified in the rare rules to mean light cover.
   
Made in ca
Kroot Carnivore





Went and re-read some more, says only Infantry can gain the benefit from Defensible.

It also says Infantry, Beast and Swarm models receive the benefits of cover from area terrain. But then below when it breaks down the specific types like Light, Heavy, Dense, Scalable, ect, sometimes it specifies unit types like Infantry, Beast, and Swarm, but other times it just says model. If only Infantry, Beasts and Swarms gain the benefit, why would they have to specify, but then, why would the state before hand that it only effected them.

My head hurts. :(



Automatically Appended Next Post:
nosferatu1001 wrote:
Pretty sure "receiving benefit of cover" is clarified in the rare rules to mean light cover.


From the Rare Rules Section:

Some models have abilities that improve the bonus a model receives to its saving throw when it is receiving the benefit of cover — for example, ‘add 2 instead of 1 to saving throws for models in this unit while it is receiving the benefit of cover’. If a model or unit with such a rule is receiving the benefits of cover from a terrain feature with the Light Cover or Heavy Cover trait, then this rule is applied as written. If that model or unit is receiving the benefits of cover from any other terrain features with any other terrain traits, you instead add 1 to its saving throws, in addition to any other benefits of cover that are gained from those terrain features. In either case, invulnerable saves are unaffected.

Seems like from what is written that the terrain does have to actually effect the model in some way, though RAW that way Imperial units would always get it when standing in the open near those Ld buffing statues.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Founds another extra little blurb, seems to confirm what Eihn said about Dense Cover: "It is not required for a unit to be fulfilling the criteria of ‘gaining the benefits of cover’, as described for Obstacles and Area Terrain, for this penalty to hit rolls to apply (but also note that any rule that ignores the benefits of cover, or that ignores the benefits of cover that impose a penalty on hit rolls, would still ignore that penalty)."

However this seems to imply that the unit is not technically receiving "the benefits of cover" even though it is? So, does that mean the stratagem doesn't work?

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2021/09/09 22:46:59


15000 4000 3500 2500 :tyranid: 2500 1000 1000
1000 1000 1000 1000  
   
Made in us
Never Forget Isstvan!






Im pretty sure to be considered "recieving the benefits of cover", the model has to be inside some sort of area terrain.

So you could use the strat on any unit inside the area of a ruin, or forest, or crater, or behind a barricade.

If you were standing behind the terrain, while you would be technically benefitting from dense or obscuring, you would not be recieving the benefit for the purpose's of strats that require it.

JOIN MY CRUSADE and gain 4000 RT points!
http://www.eternalcrusade.com/account/sign-up/?ref_code=EC-PLCIKYCABW8PG 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut



Glasgow

Not this again

Cover from a non terrain source unless specified is light cover being in terrain is not a requirement

E.g. admech canticle

Terrain + non terrain source do not stack you can only receive the benefits of cover once


Certain models e.g. space marine camo clocks increase the benefits of cover when you are in cover. These are also triggered by non terrain light cover
   
Made in gb
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain





Cardiff

This. If a Strat/ability/etc. gives the benefits of cover the whole point is to give you that benefit wherever you are, so the unit does not also need to be in area terrain. Read and apply.

 Stormonu wrote:
For me, the joy is in putting some good-looking models on the board and playing out a fantasy battle - not arguing over the poorly-made rules of some 3rd party who neither has any power over my play nor will be visiting me (and my opponent) to ensure we are "playing by the rules"
 
   
Made in ca
Kroot Carnivore





U02dah4 wrote:
Not this again

Cover from a non terrain source unless specified is light cover being in terrain is not a requirement

E.g. admech canticle

Terrain + non terrain source do not stack you can only receive the benefits of cover once


Certain models e.g. space marine camo clocks increase the benefits of cover when you are in cover. These are also triggered by non terrain light cover


Maybe, I wasn't clear in the question. I'm not talking about cover from non-terrain sources. I'm asking when (if ever) Cavalry and Monstrous Creatures would be considered gaining "the benefit of cover".

15000 4000 3500 2500 :tyranid: 2500 1000 1000
1000 1000 1000 1000  
   
Made in us
Veteran Knight Baron in a Crusader





 Eihnlazer wrote:
Im pretty sure to be considered "recieving the benefits of cover", the model has to be inside some sort of area terrain.

So you could use the strat on any unit inside the area of a ruin, or forest, or crater, or behind a barricade.

If you were standing behind the terrain, while you would be technically benefitting from dense or obscuring, you would not be recieving the benefit for the purpose's of strats that require it.


"benefit of cover" and benefitting from cover are two different concepts within the ruleset. An obstacle/piece of area terrain could technically give the "benefit of cover" without actually giving any benefits at all, and likewise just because one is benefitting from dense cover or obscuring, you're not necessarily "receiving the benefit of cover".
   
Made in ca
Kroot Carnivore





Rihgu wrote:

"benefit of cover" and benefitting from cover are two different concepts within the ruleset. An obstacle/piece of area terrain could technically give the "benefit of cover" without actually giving any benefits at all, and likewise just because one is benefitting from dense cover or obscuring, you're not necessarily "receiving the benefit of cover".


So then, even if say a Krootox wouldn't receive the +1sv from light cover due to being cavalry, it would still be considered "receiving the benefit of cover" and thus be able to use the stratagem? But if a unit is behind dense cover and getting the -1 to be hit, it's not technically "receiving the benefit of cover" because it's not in the area of the terrain?

Interesting. Thanks for your input.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/10 15:36:03


15000 4000 3500 2500 :tyranid: 2500 1000 1000
1000 1000 1000 1000  
   
 
Forum Index » 40K You Make Da Call
Go to: