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Made in us
Tough-as-Nails Ork Boy




So in the thread about new CSM terminators in General I got thinking about what would make Mutilators viable (ignoring the horrible models, I personally hope they get adjusted to the same scale as modern Obliterators)

In that vein I was wondering, what niche could they fill. Personally I'd suggest that they act as a counterpart to Assault Centurions, with a similar variability to Obliterators, however I think that using their old pick a weapon, or in this case a choice of profiles would be best.

Honestly a statline of M4 or 5, WS3+, BS 3+, Str 5 T5 W4 A3 LD 8 SV 2+ would be a good baseline, with the normal Daemon 5++, Teleport Strike which just brings them in line with Obliterators.

But for their Fleshmetal weapons I'd separate them into 2 profiles.

Strength x2, AP-3 3 Damage

or

Strength User, AP-1 1 damage, for every attack made with this weapon, make 2 hit rolls.


To make them different from Space Marine centurions, they don't have ranged weapons, but they do have a sweep option if someone wants to try and drown them with Chaff. I'd price them around 55 ppm at this statline, and I honestly expect GW, if they ever make a new model for them to do something like this for them.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/11 20:29:41


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Your proposal is reasonable, but I'm not sure it "fixes" mutilators. Part of their problem is that chaos has tons of other melee units competing for a similar role. And some of those units either have more reliable charges out of deepstrike, have solid shooting (so they aren't reliant on the charge to contribute), or maybe even hit harder than the mutilators. Though I'm not positive about that last one. By comparison, all mutilators really have going for them is that they're a little chunkier than berzerkers, terminators, chosen, etc. And they're not *so* durable your opponent is likely to give them a second turn to attempt a charge.

So it's just really easy for them to not reach combat. Which makes them a bigger gamble than things like obliterators/terminators who can start shooting when arrive or other melee units that can just scoot across the table.

Maybe it would make more sense to just make them an add-on for an obliterator squad? Let them serve as ablative wounds and a crowd-clearer when your obliterators get shot at or locked in combat?
   
Made in us
Tough-as-Nails Ork Boy




Perhaps If they were made to function as something akin to the Imperial Auspex scan/Necron Deathmark counter Deepstrike. Essentially allowing mutilators to function as insurance against an enemy redeployment or a serious deterrent to deepstrike. Essentially keep them at that statline and ability mark ups but essentially allow them to deepstrike within 12 of the enemy unit thats deepstriking, but not closer then 9 inches and allow them to attempt to make a charge against that unit.

Have them be the Warp Ambush Predator to a Warp Talons' pursuit/stalking predator.

That could reasonably separate them from other CSM melee units, plus if the enemy doesn't bother with Deepstrikes just use them as a deep striking heavy assault unit.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Is there fluff supporting them being ambush predators? I haven't read their fluff in a while, but I don't recall them being especially sneaky or fast/good at pouncing on things out of nowhere. That sounds much more like a warp talon thing, and even they don't really play up the ambush thing.

If not, that strikes me as inventing fluff to fit a rule rather than the other way around.
   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran




Personally – and as evidenced by the existing Daemon Engines and the Death Guard Possessed, this won't happen – I'd like to see all <LEGION> DAEMONS get the same treatment as modern Chaos Spawn. That is to say, an element of randomness with no straightforward good/bad result, always applicable in the same area to avoid pointless results. That would allow more universal abilities (and Stratagems, Psychic powers, Relics, etc) to interact with it, whether they're different abilities or all labelled Mutated Beyond Reason.
   
Made in gb
Lord of the Fleet






London

I agree, they should retain the randomness factor, same as Obliterators. Not sure if they'd be useful as an Oblit upgrade, as I'd imagine most players would rather just take the extra Oblit.

If you want to go down the route of Assault Cents, perhaps giving them a small ranged option might help, similar to how Oblits used to be able to pick a heavy weapon, or a smaller but twin-linked version.

Mutilator Ranged Weapon
Pistol D6, Range 6", S2+D3, Ap-0, D1, autohitting.


   
 
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