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Made in us
Impassive Inquisitorial Interrogator






I've got a Militia list lined up, wanted to get some opinions.

Crusade; 2,000pts; Loyalist

Provenances: Survivors of the Dark Age, Warrior Elite

WT: (if opponent allows me to purchase, Master of Ambush, if not, use Plantary Overlord to pick Merchant Princeling)

+HQ:+

Force Commander: Blast Pistol, Carapace Armour, Cyber-familiar, Frag and Krak Grenades, Iron Halo, Planetary Overlord, Power Fist

Platoon Command Cadre: Advanced Weapons, Boltguns, Carapace Armour, Frag and Krak Grenades
. 6x Militia Bodyguard
. Platoon Commander: Augmented Weapon, Blast Pistol
. Platoon Standard Bearer
. Vox Operator

+Elites:+

Medicae Detachment
. Medicae OrderlyX6

+Troops:+

Fire Support Squad
. Militia Fire Team: Lascannon
. Militia Fire Team: Lascannon
. Militia Fire Team: Mortar
. Militia Fire Team: Heavy Stubber
. Militia Fire Team: Heavy Stubber

Grenadier Squad: Advanced Weapons, Carapace armor, Boltguns
. Grenadier Sergeant: Augmented Weapon, Carapace Armour, Laspistol, Melta Bombs
. 17x Grenadiers
. Special Weapons GrenadierX2: Grenade Launcher

Grenadier Squad: Advanced Weapons, Carapace armor, Boltguns,
. Grenadier Sergeant: Augmented Weapon, Carapace Armour, Laspistol, Melta Bombs
. 17x Grenadiers
. Special Weapons GrenadierX2: Plasma Gun

Grenadier Squad: Advanced Weapons, Carapace armor, Boltguns,
. Grenadier Sergeant: Augmented Weapon, Carapace Armour, Laspistol, Melta Bombs
. 17x Grenadiers
. Special Weapons GrenadierX2: Flamer

Grenadier Squad: Advanced Weapons, Carapace armor, Boltguns,
. Grenadier Sergeant: Augmented Weapon, Carapace Armour, Laspistol, Melta Bombs
. 17x Grenadiers
. Special Weapons GrenadierX2: Meltagun

Inducted Levy Squad: Discipline Collars
. Custodian: Bolt Pistol, Close Combat Weapon, Flak Armour
. 30x Levy Auxiliaries

+Fast Attack:+

Thunderbolt Heavy Fighter: Flare Shield, Four Sunfury Heavy Missiles, Ground-tracking Auguries

Thunderbolt Heavy Fighter: Flare Shield, Four Sunfury Heavy Missiles, Ground-tracking Auguries

+Heavy Support:+

Heavy Ordnance Battery:
. Artillery Carriage Team: 4x Militia Auxilia Crew
. . Artillery Carriage: Earthshaker

Heavy Ordnance Battery:
. Artillery Carriage Team: 4x Militia Auxilia Crew
. . Artillery Carriage: Earthshaker


General idea for the list is to pound with the artillery from backboard and run with the thunderbolts, while the infantry footslog behind them, with the Levy squad in front. If I am allowed to pick my Warlord Trait, 3 Grenadier squads will be infiltrated up the board, making it much easier to get into position.
   
Made in gb
Preparing the Invasion of Terra






Okiy dokiy, first off don't take Boltguns if you have Advanced Weapons, it does nothing except waste points. Advanced Weapons only effects Laspistols, Lascarbines, Laslocks, Lasrifles and Rotor Cannons. You're paying 20 pts/squad for your Sergeant to have +1 S on their pistol.
Next, all you're doing here is making worse Space Marines. I'm not trying to be rude but if you want an army that has good armour saves, leadership, and Boltguns, just play a Legion. You're Grenadiers are going to get chewed up because they're only T3 and the Medicae are essentially worthless because a 5+ FNP on units that are T3 is wasted in 30k.
The Fire Support teams are only useful when they have a single weapon type. There's no point in mixing weapons because the unit doesn't have Split Fire.
Earthshaker batteries are just worse than Medusas as well. It's not even a competition for cost effectiveness.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/20 14:25:30


 
   
Made in us
Impassive Inquisitorial Interrogator






 Gert wrote:
Okiy dokiy, first off don't take Boltguns if you have Advanced Weapons, it does nothing except waste points. Advanced Weapons only effects Laspistols, Lascarbines, Laslocks, Lasrifles and Rotor Cannons. You're paying 20 pts/squad for your Sergeant to have +1 S on their pistol.
Next, all you're doing here is making worse Space Marines. I'm not trying to be rude but if you want an army that has good armour saves, leadership, and Boltguns, just play a Legion. You're Grenadiers are going to get chewed up because they're only T3 and the Medicae are essentially worthless because a 5+ FNP on units that are T3 is wasted in 30k.
The Fire Support teams are only useful when they have a single weapon type. There's no point in mixing weapons because the unit doesn't have Split Fire.
Earthshaker batteries are just worse than Medusas as well. It's not even a competition for cost effectiveness.


OKay, i'll swap out for lasrifles then, I must have missed that bit.

I know they're just worse space marines, but for both fluff and budgetary reasons I don't want to go the Levy horde route. I'm mainly trying to make my men as hardy as possible so I can hold while the air support and artillery bombard. Perhaps add a Russ or two to absorb fire, dropping either Grenadier squad or the Heavy Support squads? (A russ is 140pts, about the same price as either of those) That or some fortifications that, if the opponent allows me to infiltrate, set up for my boys to immediately to hop into.

Noted on the support squads.

I went for the Eathshakers because of the range on them, both the Earthshaker and Medusa are on Artillery carriages, which cant move. The medusa only has 36" range, meaning half the board, while Earthshakers can reach all the way across the board, allowing me to drop large templates turn 1. Being able to put them at the very back edge of the board also helps because it allows me to cheap out on crew as well. Maybe a pair of each would beneficial? One for Strength 10 blasts and for close-ups, and the other for long range ap3.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/09/20 16:11:42


 
   
Made in gb
Preparing the Invasion of Terra






There are ways to play without the horde but you've done it anyway with the 20 man squads of Grenadiers. The only difference between a Cultist horde and your list is that you've sunk so much into your Troops that you've left yourself with little in the way of Armour or Elite support. Ogryns are a good option to go for since they can be equipped with some nasty CQC and the Leman Russ Squadrons are a good way to get cheap armour that can both take and dish out damage.
Maybe drop a couple of the Grenadiers down to 10+Special Weapons to give yourself some extra room, and consider mounting the smaller units in Rhinos, a perk you get from the Survivors Provenance. On a second look the Levy Squad isn't really needed when you already have a substantial Troops section. Maybe replace them with a Missile Support squad.
The 36" range on the Medusa isn't really a massive issue when the board you should be playing on is a 6x4 with a 12" deployment. Add into that the fact that most armies will be coming to you, the Earthshaker is just worse in almost every aspect.
   
Made in us
Impassive Inquisitorial Interrogator






 Gert wrote:
There are ways to play without the horde but you've done it anyway with the 20 man squads of Grenadiers. The only difference between a Cultist horde and your list is that you've sunk so much into your Troops that you've left yourself with little in the way of Armour or Elite support. Ogryns are a good option to go for since they can be equipped with some nasty CQC and the Leman Russ Squadrons are a good way to get cheap armour that can both take and dish out damage.
Maybe drop a couple of the Grenadiers down to 10+Special Weapons to give yourself some extra room, and consider mounting the smaller units in Rhinos, a perk you get from the Survivors Provenance. On a second look the Levy Squad isn't really needed when you already have a substantial Troops section. Maybe replace them with a Missile Support squad.
The 36" range on the Medusa isn't really a massive issue when the board you should be playing on is a 6x4 with a 12" deployment. Add into that the fact that most armies will be coming to you, the Earthshaker is just worse in almost every aspect.


I see... that's not a bad idea. Though Grenadiers can't take rhinos with the special weapons. Grenadiers min-out at 9 guys+sarge, the Special Weapons are extra men on top and don't fit. Only Arvus Lighters or assault Drills. Pretty much the only thing worth carting around in the things is the command squad. Also, i just took my existing support squad and made it 6 Lascannons (the kit I'm going with for the Platoon Command and Heavy Weapons comes with 3 not!lascannons, so 2 kits and I've got 6 lascannons) I've got enough space in the list now to add a single Leman Russ, what sort would you suggest? I'm personally thinking Vanquisher.

Also: Vexillas on the grenadiers?

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/09/20 18:10:42


 
   
Made in gb
Preparing the Invasion of Terra






So I did a quick updated version of a list I would use instead of the one you've made. It's very similar but there are changes.
Spoiler:

+ HQ: +

Force Commander [250pts]: Blast Pistol, Carapace Armour, Cyber-familiar, Iron Halo, Melta Bombs, Planetary Overlord, Power Fist
. The Muster of Worlds: Survivors of the Dark Age, Warrior Elite

Platoon Command Cadre, Imperialis Militia [80pts]: Advanced Weapons, Carapace Armour, Lascarbine
. 6x Militia Bodyguard: 6x Close Combat Weapon
. Platoon Commander: Blast Pistol, Close Combat Weapon

+ Troops: +

Fire Support Squad, Imperialis Militia [150pts]
. Militia Fire Teams: Lascannon
. Militia Fire Teams: Lascannon
. Militia Fire Teams: Lascannon
. Militia Fire Teams: Lascannon
. Militia Fire Teams: Lascannon

Fire Support Squad, Imperialis Militia [125pts]
. Militia Fire Teams: Missile Launcher with Frag and Krak
. Militia Fire Teams: Missile Launcher with Frag and Krak
. Militia Fire Teams: Missile Launcher with Frag and Krak
. Militia Fire Teams: Missile Launcher with Frag and Krak
. Militia Fire Teams: Missile Launcher with Frag and Krak

Grenadier Squad, Imperialis Militia [125pts]: Advanced Weapons, Lasrifles
. Grenadier Sergeant: Close Combat Weapon, Laspistol, Melta Bombs
. 9x Grenadiers: 9x Carapace Armour
. Special Weapons Grenadier: Grenade Launcher
. Special Weapons Grenadier: Grenade Launcher

Grenadier Squad, Imperialis Militia [175pts]: Advanced Weapons, Lasrifles
. Grenadier Sergeant: Close Combat Weapon, Laspistol, Melta Bombs
. 17x Grenadiers: 17x Carapace Armour
. Special Weapons Grenadier: Meltagun
. Special Weapons Grenadier: Meltagun

Grenadier Squad, Imperialis Militia [175pts]: Advanced Weapons, Lasrifles
. Grenadier Sergeant: Close Combat Weapon, Laspistol, Melta Bombs
. 17x Grenadiers: 17x Carapace Armour
. Special Weapons Grenadier: Plasma Gun
. Special Weapons Grenadier: Plasma Gun

+ Fast Attack: +

Thunderbolt Heavy Fighter, Auxilia [220pts]: Four Sunfury Heavy Missiles

Thunderbolt Heavy Fighter, Auxilia [200pts]: Four Kinetic Piercer Missile

+ Heavy Support: +

Heavy Ordnance Battery, Auxilia [100pts]
. Artillery Carriage Team: 4x Militia Auxilia Crew
. . Artillery Carriage: Medusa Siege Guns

Heavy Ordnance Battery, Auxilia [100pts]
. Artillery Carriage Team: 4x Militia Auxilia Crew
. . Artillery Carriage: Medusa Siege Guns

Militia Auxiliary Battle Tank Attack Squadron [300pts]
. Leman Russ Battle Tank: Heavy Bolter
. Leman Russ Demolisher: Heavy Bolter

20 man blobs are great but really there's no need for 110 dudes when you're playing an "elite" Militia army. I dropped the Medicae, the Levy squad, and swapped some wargear around:
- Augmented Weapons on your Sergeants isn't going to help them in combat 9/10 times. Most units you'll be fighting in combat will be going before you and will beat you in a challenge, as a rule I don't upgrade my Sergeants due to this.
- You lacked a lot of AT so one of the T-Bolts has Kinetic Piercers which from personal experience will pop anything with AV12 nicely. The fact that the T-Bolt has Deep Strike can help a lot of armour facing issues.
- I added a Missile Fire Support squad just to give you a bit more kick as well. Relying on one team with AT weapons, planes that might come on and Arty that can/will scatter isn't a great idea.

I'm not saying this list is competitive but it should give you a better balance of firepower.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/20 18:17:08


 
   
Made in us
Impassive Inquisitorial Interrogator






 Gert wrote:
So I did a quick updated version of a list I would use instead of the one you've made. It's very similar but there are changes.
Spoiler:

+ HQ: +

Force Commander [250pts]: Blast Pistol, Carapace Armour, Cyber-familiar, Iron Halo, Melta Bombs, Planetary Overlord, Power Fist
. The Muster of Worlds: Survivors of the Dark Age, Warrior Elite

Platoon Command Cadre, Imperialis Militia [80pts]: Advanced Weapons, Carapace Armour, Lascarbine
. 6x Militia Bodyguard: 6x Close Combat Weapon
. Platoon Commander: Blast Pistol, Close Combat Weapon

+ Troops: +

Fire Support Squad, Imperialis Militia [150pts]
. Militia Fire Teams: Lascannon
. Militia Fire Teams: Lascannon
. Militia Fire Teams: Lascannon
. Militia Fire Teams: Lascannon
. Militia Fire Teams: Lascannon

Fire Support Squad, Imperialis Militia [125pts]
. Militia Fire Teams: Missile Launcher with Frag and Krak
. Militia Fire Teams: Missile Launcher with Frag and Krak
. Militia Fire Teams: Missile Launcher with Frag and Krak
. Militia Fire Teams: Missile Launcher with Frag and Krak
. Militia Fire Teams: Missile Launcher with Frag and Krak

Grenadier Squad, Imperialis Militia [125pts]: Advanced Weapons, Lasrifles
. Grenadier Sergeant: Close Combat Weapon, Laspistol, Melta Bombs
. 9x Grenadiers: 9x Carapace Armour
. Special Weapons Grenadier: Grenade Launcher
. Special Weapons Grenadier: Grenade Launcher

Grenadier Squad, Imperialis Militia [175pts]: Advanced Weapons, Lasrifles
. Grenadier Sergeant: Close Combat Weapon, Laspistol, Melta Bombs
. 17x Grenadiers: 17x Carapace Armour
. Special Weapons Grenadier: Meltagun
. Special Weapons Grenadier: Meltagun

Grenadier Squad, Imperialis Militia [175pts]: Advanced Weapons, Lasrifles
. Grenadier Sergeant: Close Combat Weapon, Laspistol, Melta Bombs
. 17x Grenadiers: 17x Carapace Armour
. Special Weapons Grenadier: Plasma Gun
. Special Weapons Grenadier: Plasma Gun

+ Fast Attack: +

Thunderbolt Heavy Fighter, Auxilia [220pts]: Four Sunfury Heavy Missiles

Thunderbolt Heavy Fighter, Auxilia [200pts]: Four Kinetic Piercer Missile

+ Heavy Support: +

Heavy Ordnance Battery, Auxilia [100pts]
. Artillery Carriage Team: 4x Militia Auxilia Crew
. . Artillery Carriage: Medusa Siege Guns

Heavy Ordnance Battery, Auxilia [100pts]
. Artillery Carriage Team: 4x Militia Auxilia Crew
. . Artillery Carriage: Medusa Siege Guns

Militia Auxiliary Battle Tank Attack Squadron [300pts]
. Leman Russ Battle Tank: Heavy Bolter
. Leman Russ Demolisher: Heavy Bolter

20 man blobs are great but really there's no need for 110 dudes when you're playing an "elite" Militia army. I dropped the Medicae, the Levy squad, and swapped some wargear around:
- Augmented Weapons on your Sergeants isn't going to help them in combat 9/10 times. Most units you'll be fighting in combat will be going before you and will beat you in a challenge, as a rule I don't upgrade my Sergeants due to this.
- You lacked a lot of AT so one of the T-Bolts has Kinetic Piercers which from personal experience will pop anything with AV12 nicely. The fact that the T-Bolt has Deep Strike can help a lot of armour facing issues.
- I added a Missile Fire Support squad just to give you a bit more kick as well. Relying on one team with AT weapons, planes that might come on and Arty that can/will scatter isn't a great idea.

I'm not saying this list is competitive but it should give you a better balance of firepower.


Thanks, I'll take these into consideration. I may do a little tweaking on certain parts, (my local meta is very infantry focused, not a lot of vehicles beyond transports and the rare spartan or Land Raider. Made sure to do plenty of recon! ) but this will hopefully get me in the right spot.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/20 19:30:12


 
   
Made in us
Unhealthy Competition With Other Legions





United States

I would add that in my experience, taking Alchem Jackers might help you, in the long run, more than Warrior Elite.

This is because rules-wise, if your artillery units fail a morale check and flee, the guns are essentially destroyed for all intents and purposes, the crew cannot go back and recrew them. Alchem Jackers means that anytime you fail a Ld test to shooting you become pinned instead of running. Still not idea for your artillery, but better than losing them outright.

Adittionally, I find that in smaller games earthshakers are superfluous. They have a minimum range that hampers their ability to provide support to your units nearby, and their amazing maximum range is rarely of use outside of apocalypse-sized battles. My recommendation is to switch them out for medusas. You get some much-needed AP2 in your army, and S10 will instant death everything up to custodes, AND you get better at killing tanks.

13th Stor-Bezashk and Ezurum Fusiliers - Army of Dark Compliance Plog -

SoCal Open Horus Heresy Narrative Event FB Page

“Victory is not an abstract concept, it is the equation that sits at the heart of strategy. Victory is the will to expend lives and munitions in attack, overmatching the defenders’reserves of manpower and ordnance. As long as my Iron Warriors are willing to pay any price in pursuit of victory, we shall never be defeated.” - The Primarch Perturabo, Master of the Iron Warriors 
   
Made in gb
Battleship Captain




Don't forget the potential to load bastion breacher shells too.

They're one of the few things that can reliably go through the front of a flare-shielded Spartan.

Termagants expended for the Hive Mind: ~2835
 
   
 
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