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Made in us
Enigmatic Chaos Sorcerer




Tampa, FL

So GW has gone and removed all the links to the free warscrolls from their website (the direct link and Google search still works currently). We knew it was coming but this is a totally braindead move from them. Free scrolls was a huge selling point especially for younger gamers just getting into it, as you could get the free rules, get some models and the scrolls for free, and throw down and expand later.

- Wayne
Formerly WayneTheGame 
   
Made in us
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Gathering the Informations.

Eh...it's been the writing on the walls for awhile.

Between the rules being available online and reviewers always posting the overall army rules, someone could play the complete army book without buying it.
   
Made in ca
Stormin' Stompa






I feel GW is consolidating their rules again now that the app is tied to their subscription if I remember correctly, and they want to incentivize people signing up to it by removing easy access to them. Really dumb IMO, but its par for the course now that AoS has stabilized compared to its initial launch and its established how you can play versus the literal "no points and go pew pew" gameplay that characterized AoS 1.0

   
Made in ca
Long-Range Ultramarine Land Speeder Pilot






Well, instead of generating traffic to GW's webstore to check rules, I'll just, I don't know, open Battlescribe and check rules there instead I guess.

 Rippy wrote:
When you lose to a 7 year old, it's wise to not come and admit it and then try to blame the armies


Skaven - 4500
OBR - 4250
- 6800
- 4250
- 2750 
   
Made in us
Excellent Exalted Champion of Chaos





I have this feeling that the battlescribe option might be facing full torpedo attack in the very near future as well.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





Beaverton OR

I've been worried about that for some time. Around the time I started hearing people at my store say things like: "Why buy any of the books when I can just get battlescribe for free?" ...I started worrying that the GW lawyers might be coming for those fine folks soon...
   
Made in ca
Long-Range Ultramarine Land Speeder Pilot






Doesn't Battlescribe avoid much of the flak by providing a platform that accepts data, and then other people "unrelated" to Battlescribe create the data for it? Could be wrong, but that's something I heard maybe once or twice.

 Rippy wrote:
When you lose to a 7 year old, it's wise to not come and admit it and then try to blame the armies


Skaven - 4500
OBR - 4250
- 6800
- 4250
- 2750 
   
Made in us
Enigmatic Chaos Sorcerer




Tampa, FL

 Thadin wrote:
Doesn't Battlescribe avoid much of the flak by providing a platform that accepts data, and then other people "unrelated" to Battlescribe create the data for it? Could be wrong, but that's something I heard maybe once or twice.
Yeah. Battlescribe is just the app. They don't host the data files at all.

- Wayne
Formerly WayneTheGame 
   
Made in us
Excellent Exalted Champion of Chaos





They don't and thats good. But GW can go after sites that do host the files.

Granted battlescribe has been the #1 way to avoid paying for books for almost as long as I've been playing games and they've avoided that so fingers crossed for you all.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




GW has no copyright in the rules themselves, just in the expression of those rules. Their legal case for taking down stuff like battlescribe files is extremely tenuous. Doesn't mean they couldn't put pressure on the hosting sites and those sites will usually cave because they're cowards, but legally, the issue is far from clear. At most they might be able to get a legal judgment that it infringes their copyright to copy intricate rules word for word, but even that isn't a given.

This decision itself is short-sighted corporate greed of the "squeeze more money out of a rock" style that got GW into trouble in the early to mid 2010s. It's another piece of evidence they are returning to that bad old model of squeezing the existing customer.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/20 16:44:42


 
   
Made in gb
Lit By the Flames of Prospero






Oh well, looks like I won't be getting back into AoS. Shame really because it was one of the few things AoS 1 did right.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





Beaverton OR

 Gert wrote:
Oh well, looks like I won't be getting back into AoS. Shame really because it was one of the few things AoS 1 did right.


Couldn't agree more! Honestly, I would LOVE to see them go in the opposite direction, providing all the rules ect for free (or bundled together very cheap,) and concentrate on making money on the modeling aspect. As it is though... *sigh*
   
Made in us
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle






It's totally GWs loss. We're still able to get the content for free online, they just burned the goodwill & ease of access previously provided for little to nothing. How many WH+ subscriptions does this change need to produce just to break even with the number of people quitting AoS entirely?

Road to Renown! It's like classic Path to Glory, but repaired, remastered, expanded! https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/778170.page

I chose an avatar I feel best represents the quality of my post history.
ERJAK wrote:
...probably has a some amount of Nazi memorabilia, has many concerning opinions about racial and cultural minorities, and/or likely refers to women as 'females'.
--Saying this about another member does not violate Dakka's Rule #1, apparently. 
   
Made in us
Excellent Exalted Champion of Chaos





I'm interested to see community response.

My bet though is that those that are already invested will keep on investing. This may impact NEW players coming in but existing players I dont see leaving in great numbers.

The sunk cost fallacy is powerful. I know I myself succumbed to it for a very long time. Its how bloated ol' warcraft keeps printing money for Blizzard even after all Blizzard has been known for.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




In the short term, people mostly grit their teeth and go along with it. But in the long term it adds up. This is what got GW into trouble a decade ago - too much squeezing money out of a rock and eventually the rocks stop coming back for further milking.
   
Made in us
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle






yukishiro1 wrote:
In the short term, people mostly grit their teeth and go along with it. But in the long term it adds up. This is what got GW into trouble a decade ago - too much squeezing money out of a rock and eventually the rocks stop coming back for further milking.
Well said.

Road to Renown! It's like classic Path to Glory, but repaired, remastered, expanded! https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/778170.page

I chose an avatar I feel best represents the quality of my post history.
ERJAK wrote:
...probably has a some amount of Nazi memorabilia, has many concerning opinions about racial and cultural minorities, and/or likely refers to women as 'females'.
--Saying this about another member does not violate Dakka's Rule #1, apparently. 
   
Made in us
Blessed Living Saint




On the Internet

Wayniac wrote:
So GW has gone and removed all the links to the free warscrolls from their website (the direct link and Google search still works currently). We knew it was coming but this is a totally braindead move from them. Free scrolls was a huge selling point especially for younger gamers just getting into it, as you could get the free rules, get some models and the scrolls for free, and throw down and expand later.

Considering GW couldn't even keep updated scrolls on the site 90% of the time (often leaving old scrolls up until they got around to a proper book release for that army again) I'm not mad because half the time the scrolls they did have online were out of date.

That said, I think the free basic scrolls were a good idea if only because the customer got to know something about what they were buying. Too bad GW doesn't understand that they need to pivot to using rules to sell models.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/21 01:01:32


 
   
Made in us
Excited Doom Diver






They still have the free warscrolls in the box with the models, so you can still use your models right out of the box like before.

The warscrolls on the website were rarely updated, and I don't know anyone who actually referenced them that way. %99 of folks I know just used the app, which had all that stuff for free.

Just gotta see how that progress with the new app.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/21 01:07:51


Space Wolves 4k
Harlequins 2k
Chaos Knights 2k
Spiderfangs 2k
Ossiarch Bonereapers 1k 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




The warscrolls in the boxes don't have rules on them any more, just the basic stat lines.
   
Made in de
Longtime Dakkanaut






As far as I can see, the new AoS App still has all the Warscrolls for free with special rules and point costs. Just downloaded it and didn't log in, so it can't be because of my Warhammer+ subscription. Isn't this much easier than looking through the not very good to navigate webshop?
   
Made in at
Discriminating Warrior





Austria

the AoS App currently has a free beta test
we don't know what will be free after that as GW avoid telling us

and no, reading something in the App is not easier than reading a pdf on PC

Harry, bring this ring to Narnia or the Sith will take the Enterprise

M41 - Alternative Rules for Battles in the 41st Millennium (40k LRB Project) 
   
Made in fi
Ye Lord of The End Times (and a good guy)





 jaredb wrote:
They still have the free warscrolls in the box with the models, so you can still use your models right out of the box like before.

The warscrolls on the website were rarely updated, and I don't know anyone who actually referenced them that way. %99 of folks I know just used the app, which had all that stuff for free.

Just gotta see how that progress with the new app.


Like before without special rules. Yeah that's useful. Let's play teclis without any special rules whatsoever. Great value for points Who needs ward saves. Who needs MW's on 6's. Who needs rerolls or modifiers to hits.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Viterbi wrote:
As far as I can see, the new AoS App still has all the Warscrolls for free with special rules and point costs. Just downloaded it and didn't log in, so it can't be because of my Warhammer+ subscription. Isn't this much easier than looking through the not very good to navigate webshop?


It's free for all as it's beta. Wanna put odds of those NOT being part of paid app once everything's free stage ends?

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/09/21 09:15:01


2021 painted/bought: 538/575 
   
Made in de
Longtime Dakkanaut






 kodos wrote:
the AoS App currently has a free beta test
we don't know what will be free after that as GW avoid telling us

and no, reading something in the App is not easier than reading a pdf on PC


Didn't know it's in beta, wasn't following it, that's too bad. Seeing as people bought the battletomes no matter what it would be nice if the Warscrolls stayed free.
On the second part I would say this is a matter of opinion and not quantifiable Especially since I don't have my PC on me while gaming
   
Made in fi
Ye Lord of The End Times (and a good guy)





 Viterbi wrote:
 kodos wrote:
the AoS App currently has a free beta test
we don't know what will be free after that as GW avoid telling us

and no, reading something in the App is not easier than reading a pdf on PC


Didn't know it's in beta, wasn't following it, that's too bad. Seeing as people bought the battletomes no matter what it would be nice if the Warscrolls stayed free.
On the second part I would say this is a matter of opinion and not quantifiable Especially since I don't have my PC on me while gaming


This is going to hurt mostly those who want allies/coalition units. Before you had zero need for battletomes of allies/coalition units as nothing beside from warscrolls were usable from battletome and those you had from website/app.

Now if the warscrolls don't stay free(odds: Super low) you STILL can't use anything from battletome but need to buy book for warscrolls anyway.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/21 09:28:24


2021 painted/bought: 538/575 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




NE Ohio, USA

 auticus wrote:
I'm interested to see community response.


I think you're going to be watching a lot of nothing.
Sure, those who like to bitch about GW will make some noise. But it won't mean anything. They're going to clog up posts no matter what GW does.

 auticus wrote:
My bet though is that those that are already invested will keep on investing.


Because why not? As long as they enjoy the game, as long as GW keeps making models people want....
"Oh NO! GW isn't giving away free rules on it's site." Welp, I guess if I don't want to pay for the rules I'll just learn how to Google 'em.

 auticus wrote:
This may impact NEW players coming in but existing players I dont see leaving in great numbers.


I doubt it'll impact new players.
A) They don't know they're now missing anything.
B) If they want free? It's just a Google search away....

We existing players? We're either OK buying our various tomes or already get them for free. Or both. So GW removes the scrolls from their site (shrugs).


 auticus wrote:
The sunk cost fallacy is powerful. I know I myself succumbed to it for a very long time.


THAT is a completely different problem.

   
Made in gb
Horrific Hive Tyrant





I can't manage to get annoyed about this at all... I'm constantly using Battlescribe anyway, it will make zero difference to me.

New players? Many didn't even realise warscrolls were on the website anyway. If they want quick rules for a game before they own tomes it will not take much more than a Google to find them, and thats if the rules for the unit didn't come in the box.
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Savage Minotaur




Baltimore, Maryland

Storm in a tea cup.

I’d wager 99% of the views of the free warscrolls were when a new battletome dropped and people were looking at the new hotness, and nerfs or buffs. Functionally they were incomplete content anyway.


"Sometimes the only victory possible is to keep your opponent from winning." - The Emperor, from The Outcast Dead.
"Tell your gods we are coming for them, and that their realms will burn as ours did." -Thostos Bladestorm
 
   
Made in fi
Ye Lord of The End Times (and a good guy)





 nels1031 wrote:
Storm in a tea cup.

I’d wager 99% of the views of the free warscrolls were when a new battletome dropped and people were looking at the new hotness, and nerfs or buffs. Functionally they were incomplete content anyway.



Uuuuhh...you realize right that the free warscrolls we lost were FULL WARSCROLLS WITH EVERY SINGLE RULE NEEDED TO PLAY THE UNIT? With sole exception of Alarielle the updated version.

You wanted some retributors in your cities of sigmar? No need to buy battletome. Everything needed right there in app and in web site.

Want some slaves to darkness models added to your khorne army? Fine. Just get the free warscroll. No need to buy battle tome.

Now? Unless the little tiny off chance that the warscrolls don't become locked like 40k in app once free beta ends you need to buy the battletome in above scenarios. Battletomes that have zero usable rule for you beside the warscrolls you need.

Hardly incomplete when they contained 100% rules you needed. There was zero rule you needed from battletome missing that you could actually use with the exception of Alarielle after the updated version. Every other unit had 100% self contained warscroll on the web site. Zero rules missing.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/22 05:52:38


2021 painted/bought: 538/575 
   
Made in gb
Horrific Hive Tyrant





tneva82 wrote:
you need to buy the battletome in above scenarios.


You really don't... unless like for tournaments maybe? Where you have to show you have the book?

If this is something your FLGS is enforcing though I'd be pretty shocked. Even GW stores I've been in are fine with Battlescribe so long as you aren't being too overt about it.
   
Made in fi
Ye Lord of The End Times (and a good guy)





Well if you want to not have any evidence that rules are actually so.(battlescribe is poor proof seeing anybody can write anything he wants there. I can give myself dam2 liberator weapons if I want. So can you)

On similar logic you don't need battletomes or even core rulebook/GHB.

If we want to go for pirating everything you don't even need GW models then.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/22 10:25:31


2021 painted/bought: 538/575 
   
 
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