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Made in us
Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar






Soooo, from the recently closed (which veered way off topic to the subject-that-shall-not-be-named) thread. I'm looking for actual quotes from recent SOB codexes or other material regarding potential variety.

The major reference that I have is the 3rd ed book which mentions that Minor Orders "became independent of the Orders that founded them, establishing their own traditions, doctrines, livery and titles".

The good Lord Damocles provided: 'Where the bulk of the Imperium’s military forces comprise the motley cultures of thousands of worlds, the Sisters of each Order are bound by the same faith and teachings as one another, casting aside the trappings of whichever society they were born into so that they may best serve the Emperor. / Yet there are some differences between Orders in terms of their rites, their rituals and the way they bring the Ecclesiarchy’s wrath to unbelievers.'
Codex: Adepta Sororitas (8th ed.), pg.13


Can anyone else provide any further sources? Do Sisters have a 9th book? Anything in Black Library?

And They Shall Not Fit Through Doors!!!

Tyranid Army Progress -- With Classic Warriors!:
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Made in ca
Legendary Master of the Chapter





sisters got one of the first 9th edition codices.

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
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Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar






BrianDavion wrote:
sisters got one of the first 9th edition codices.
Any relevant quotes?

And They Shall Not Fit Through Doors!!!

Tyranid Army Progress -- With Classic Warriors!:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/743240.page#9671598 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut






How are you defining 'variety'?
Purely [significant] visual deviations from the 'standard' Sororitas?
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar






 Lord Damocles wrote:
How are you defining 'variety'?
Purely [significant] visual deviations from the 'standard' Sororitas?
I use 'variety' in as open ended a way as possible, I suppose. Visual, cultural, whatever.

I interpret the "livery, doctrines . . . " as more or less the "go nuts clause" for hobbyists or storytellers for an otherwise underdeveloped faction (compared to SM or IG). I'm wondering what's out there from the official standpoint these days.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/29 09:47:50


And They Shall Not Fit Through Doors!!!

Tyranid Army Progress -- With Classic Warriors!:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/743240.page#9671598 
   
Made in gb
Enginseer with a Wrench





Northumberland

Why do they need these quotes? One of the fundamentals of warhammer has always been if you want to convert your army to look like X you can. There is absolutely nothing stopping you.

One and a half feet in the hobby


My Adeptus Mechanicus Painting Log:
# The Explorator Fleet of Labrunnia IX #

 
   
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Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar





Olthannon wrote:Why do they need these quotes? One of the fundamentals of warhammer has always been if you want to convert your army to look like X you can. There is absolutely nothing stopping you.
This. Your models, go nuts, do whatever you like!

The point of contention that came up regarding this topic last time was that this variety wasn't really depicted in a meaningful way, unlike how other factions (namely Space Marines and Guardsmen) are given very strong depictions of variation. Not to say it wasn't possible, or shouldn't be possible, but that it wasn't implicitly encouraged in the same way other customisations were.


They/them

 
   
Made in us
Monster-Slaying Daemonhunter




I think the tripping point for a lot of people here is one side is saying there is no variation on the table top, and one side is saying there is no variation in the fluff.

Both are correct. 90% of depicted SoB are born and bred Schola raised orphans who've been put through an intense mind-wipe/re-education program, that minimizes individualism at the root. They don't WANT to be individuals. To my knowledge, there is no GW approved fluff where a back water mudball raised a convent of SoB through non-standard means, and thus they were functionally and dramatically different than the victorianesque battle ladies we are used to.

No where has GW ever presented SoB units that fall out of line with the stock standard, ala Vostoyan vs Catachan vs Cadian, to my knowledge. I'd love to be proven wrong though, and shown GW depicting them as anything other than what we see in the books now.
   
Made in fr
Stalwart Tribune





How much do minor orders even show up in the fluff? From what I've read, when there are SoBs involved, they're usually the archetypal sisters from the Order of Our Martyred Lady. Even the other major orders aren't represented a whole lot... It's not surprising that there's so little variety then.
   
Made in gb
Enginseer with a Wrench





Northumberland

I guess though if with the new release and the fact they are taking the lore towards the Sisters getting out and about a bit more in the sunshine, maybe more of these minor orders will be kicking about too?

One and a half feet in the hobby


My Adeptus Mechanicus Painting Log:
# The Explorator Fleet of Labrunnia IX #

 
   
Made in es
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain




Vigo. Spain.

I'll never understand how is argueed that Sisters of Battle are one and the same because the "Eclesiarchy" when the own Eclesiarchy is represented as a miriad of denominations and cults and local adaptations for planets or sistem from a central Imperial religion.

Of course is not about being completely different religions, but the imperial creed woul be like Christianity. And then you have dozens upon dozens of varietis of it.


If SOB have 0 variety is because they where an abandoned army for 20 years and just recently they have had their own thing. I mean, Craftworld Eldar or Drukhari have also have 0 variety in aesthetics and models between craftworlds and cabals.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/29 14:51:22


 Crimson Devil wrote:

Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.

ERJAK wrote:
Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.

 
   
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I think given the fact that they were one of the first out of the gate for 9th, they will not be due for any major changes this edition. GW dropped the ball there.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut






Dawn of War: Ascension features some golden-armoured Celestians from the Order of Golden Light, which 'requires a vow of silence from their Celestians - in honour of their lost and fallen brethren / they used no insignia to stipulate their ranks and provided nobody with their names - believing that all the Sisterhood was equal before the Emperor, equally devoted and utterly selfless. For such devout servants, there was no need for the differentiations of name and rank. They did not care for personal identities, but thought only of in whose name they would die.'

The Order of Golden Light 'occasionally accompanied the non-militant Lost Rosetta on expeditions to the less hospitable parts of the galaxy. In fact, the two orders were related historically, each splitting from the now defunct Order of Lost Light after a virulent purity sweep by the Witch Hunters of the Ordo Hereticus found its particular mix of scholarship and martial prowess threatening to the stability of the Imperium.'
(Chapter 7)
   
Made in nl
Regular Dakkanaut




I don’t have the book to hand so can’t provide quotes, but the Order of the Last Candle depicted in Requiem Infernal was very culturally distinct, albeit from the descriptions they wouldn’t have been all that visually distinct other than colours.

Same usual types of sisters and same usually armour patterns, just following a fairly unusual religious sect.
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar






 Lord Damocles wrote:
Dawn of War: Ascension features some golden-armoured Celestians from the Order of Golden Light, which 'requires a vow of silence from their Celestians - in honour of their lost and fallen brethren / they used no insignia to stipulate their ranks and provided nobody with their names - believing that all the Sisterhood was equal before the Emperor, equally devoted and utterly selfless. For such devout servants, there was no need for the differentiations of name and rank. They did not care for personal identities, but thought only of in whose name they would die.'

The Order of Golden Light 'occasionally accompanied the non-militant Lost Rosetta on expeditions to the less hospitable parts of the galaxy. In fact, the two orders were related historically, each splitting from the now defunct Order of Lost Light after a virulent purity sweep by the Witch Hunters of the Ordo Hereticus found its particular mix of scholarship and martial prowess threatening to the stability of the Imperium.'
(Chapter 7)

Very cool. Is that a novel connected with the video games? The only one I recall with Sisters is DOW Soulstorm(?).


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Galas wrote:
I'll never understand how is argueed that Sisters of Battle are one and the same because the "Eclesiarchy" when the own Eclesiarchy is represented as a miriad of denominations and cults and local adaptations for planets or sistem from a central Imperial religion.

Of course is not about being completely different religions, but the imperial creed woul be like Christianity. And then you have dozens upon dozens of varietis of it.


If SOB have 0 variety is because they where an abandoned army for 20 years and just recently they have had their own thing. I mean, Craftworld Eldar or Drukhari have also have 0 variety in aesthetics and models between craftworlds and cabals.
Agree. They were a "forgotten faction" for a while in terms of official development.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Olthannon wrote:
Why do they need these quotes?
Because I got pushback about SOB variation in the other thread because the reference I had personally was from 3rd ed. "It's old and therefore irrelevant" So I wanted to see what was out there for more recent sources.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/09/29 19:44:08


And They Shall Not Fit Through Doors!!!

Tyranid Army Progress -- With Classic Warriors!:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/743240.page#9671598 
   
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Insectum7 wrote:
 Olthannon wrote:
Why do they need these quotes?
Because I got pushback about SOB variation in the other thread because the reference I had personally was from 3rd ed. "It's old and therefore irrelevant" So I wanted to see what was out there for more recent sources.
That's more than a little bit of a misrepresentation of the actual points raised, if we're going to be fair.


They/them

 
   
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In the effort to extend an olive branch, in case it was me being the lumpty on the 3rd being "old" and not good enough, I apologize. I do think it's a fairly removed hobby from it's days of 3rd edition.
   
Made in us
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 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
Insectum7 wrote:
 Olthannon wrote:
Why do they need these quotes?
Because I got pushback about SOB variation in the other thread because the reference I had personally was from 3rd ed. "It's old and therefore irrelevant" So I wanted to see what was out there for more recent sources.
That's more than a little bit of a misrepresentation of the actual points raised, if we're going to be fair.

I am not misrepresenting - (quote from the thread): "If your source for diversity is a book almost older than I am, and you’ve nothing else to back it up, your point is not a strong one."


The purpose of this thread is specifically to look for other places SOB variety is mentioned. I don't play Sisters and don't own the current 9th ed book. Does the book has the "custom chapter rules" that other books do?

Even the 9th ed BRB mentions "known" major orders and their particular flavors, and then goes on to mention that there are "many more martial orders are scattered across the Emperor's realm, each a lethal and specialized force. . ." pg. 85. This to me suggests that there are more orders which vary from the "primary" official ones we know.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
In the effort to extend an olive branch, in case it was me being the lumpty on the 3rd being "old" and not good enough, I apologize. I do think it's a fairly removed hobby from it's days of 3rd edition.
I don't recall, happy to reset.

As for 3rd being "removed" that's definitely something up for debate. Much of the lore for the traditional primary factions was solidified and settled by/during 3rd. Space Marines, Guard, Eldar, Orks and others didn't really change a whole lot between 3rd and 7th. Obviously 8th added Primaris to Marines. Obviously more options (kits) were added to armies during that time, but in terms of faction-identity-evolution the major thing that comes to mind is the Oldcron-Newcron thing.

And I think in general there isn't a statute of limitations on lore. It's my belief that lore as written continues to generally remain relevant unless explicitly overwritten by something new, or conspicuously omitted through a number of publications (as in, numerous publications from codexes to novels about Ultramarines exist, but none of them mention a half-Eldar Illiyan Nastase Chief Librarian). Sisters, being a notoriously underserved faction through those years, just didn't get much material at all to either reaffirm the existence of other orders doing their own thing, or conspicuously not mention the same. (Although the good Lord Damocles has filled in that gap with what little was published)

So I'm just wondering what else might be out there.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/09/30 07:37:30


And They Shall Not Fit Through Doors!!!

Tyranid Army Progress -- With Classic Warriors!:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/743240.page#9671598 
   
Made in gb
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Insectum7 wrote:
 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
Insectum7 wrote:I got pushback about SOB variation in the other thread because the reference I had personally was from 3rd ed. "It's old and therefore irrelevant" So I wanted to see what was out there for more recent sources.
That's more than a little bit of a misrepresentation of the actual points raised, if we're going to be fair.

I am not misrepresenting - (quote from the thread): "If your source for diversity is a book almost older than I am, and you’ve nothing else to back it up, your point is not a strong one."
Quoting me without context is still misrepresentation, I'm afraid to say.

I've already mentioned earlier in this thread what the previous discussion was about (namely, how Sisters are not portrayed with as much variation as other factions, and that it was improper to consider them equivalent), but as I've also said in this thread, there's nothing to stop anyone from making their own models varied. Go nuts!

The purpose of this thread is specifically to look for other places SOB variety is mentioned. I don't play Sisters and don't own the current 9th ed book. Does the book has the "custom chapter rules" that other books do?
Yes, they do!

Even the 9th ed BRB mentions "known" major orders and their particular flavors, and then goes on to mention that there are "many more martial orders are scattered across the Emperor's realm, each a lethal and specialized force. . ." pg. 85. This to me suggests that there are more orders which vary from the "primary" official ones we know.
There almost certainly are - but the point stands that they're not *shown* in the same way that other factions' variations are.
I'm not saying that variations don't or can't exist - but just simply stating that they aren't showcased very much. That is, however, more relevant to the previous conversation as I mentioned, so if it's all the same with you, it's not worth bringing up further in this one.


They/them

 
   
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Sitting here laughing, all it would take to shut people like us up, is for GW to display photos or recognition of a non-standard (I.E. Victorian Battle nuns in Black, red, white, and or gold) Sisters of Battle. Just throw us some SoB in bright orange with skulls on their base, or some bitted up sisters with wolf furs on them.

But I dare say they never will, because in Marketing 101, that's what is called a Client shock. You sell your client 100 widgets with 5 prongs, for 6 years. Then one day you prominantly display a prototype model that one of your machines made as a joke, or accident, and it only has 4 prongs, or 6. Then you start getting customers demanding the 6 prong model, even though you don't make a 6 prong model. And soon no one is buying your 5 prong model. It happens every year in the Auto Industry.
   
Made in gb
Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar





FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:Sitting here laughing, all it would take to shut people like us up, is for GW to display photos or recognition of a non-standard (I.E. Victorian Battle nuns in Black, red, white, and or gold) Sisters of Battle. Just throw us some SoB in bright orange with skulls on their base, or some bitted up sisters with wolf furs on them.
It really would - getting prominently placed non-standard variations of existing concepts would be genuinely so cool, and does wonders for inspiring creativity.


They/them

 
   
Made in us
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 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
Insectum7 wrote:
 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
Insectum7 wrote:I got pushback about SOB variation in the other thread because the reference I had personally was from 3rd ed. "It's old and therefore irrelevant" So I wanted to see what was out there for more recent sources.
That's more than a little bit of a misrepresentation of the actual points raised, if we're going to be fair.

I am not misrepresenting - (quote from the thread): "If your source for diversity is a book almost older than I am, and you’ve nothing else to back it up, your point is not a strong one."
Quoting me without context is still misrepresentation, I'm afraid to say.
It's not even a quote from you.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/30 15:03:46


And They Shall Not Fit Through Doors!!!

Tyranid Army Progress -- With Classic Warriors!:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/743240.page#9671598 
   
Made in gb
Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar





 Insectum7 wrote:
 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
Insectum7 wrote:
 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
Insectum7 wrote:I got pushback about SOB variation in the other thread because the reference I had personally was from 3rd ed. "It's old and therefore irrelevant" So I wanted to see what was out there for more recent sources.
That's more than a little bit of a misrepresentation of the actual points raised, if we're going to be fair.

I am not misrepresenting - (quote from the thread): "If your source for diversity is a book almost older than I am, and you’ve nothing else to back it up, your point is not a strong one."
Quoting me without context is still misrepresentation, I'm afraid to say.
It's not even a quote from you.
Fair enough, it may not be *my* own comment - but if I'm not mistaken, that quote is still being presented outside of the context which I illustrated?

Again, just because you made the point about "I got pushback because it was old" - that's not the whole story. Just wanted to leave it at that.


They/them

 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut






FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Sitting here laughing, all it would take to shut people like us up, is for GW to display photos or recognition of a non-standard (I.E. Victorian Battle nuns in Black, red, white, and or gold) Sisters of Battle. Just throw us some SoB in bright orange with skulls on their base, or some bitted up sisters with wolf furs on them.

Well, you've got the Order of the Argent Shroud, and the Order of the Iron Veil, who wear silver armour; the Order of the Glowing Chalice, who have grey; the Order of the Thorn, who are cream; the Order of the Ashen Shrine who have orange/ochre robes (all in Codex: Adepta Soritas (8th ed.), pg.68); the Order of the Blue Robe (pictured is an Exorcist in blue/white) (Imperial Armour vol.2: Space Marines and Forces of the Inquisition (1st ed.)), who presumably have blue robes...

Why is gold on your list? As far as I'm aware, the Order of the Golden Light are the only order described with gold armour, so it's nowhere near as common as the red/black/white.


 Insectum7 wrote:
Very cool. Is that a novel connected with the video games? The only one I recall with Sisters is DOW Soulstorm(?)

The Dawn of War novels are not good, sadly. Ascension is set at roughly the same time as the first expansion of the original game,Winter Assault is occurring.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/30 16:46:59


 
   
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 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
Fair enough, it may not be *my* own comment - but if I'm not mistaken, that quote is still being presented outside of the context which I illustrated?

The relevant context is a thread where the OP asked "Is there any reason why Sorotitas cant be diverse likes astartes or astra militarum... Sure they all follow the same faith and have the same armor... But cant they be diverse (in lore and aesthetics) as the other main IOM factions" To which I could provide an existing quote that supported room for variety. It was pointed out that the quote may not be relevant anymore because it's old. . . . but then nobody appeared to be able to post any literature that implied that the quote no longer applied. Nobody seemed to even be able to say whether or not similar language was absent from current publications either. (except Damocles, although I think the last reference there is from 8th)

So my interpretation is that GW has a historically undersupported faction that doesn't receive a lot of attention, but thankfully for those of us who like to flex our creative side while remaining faithful to the available lore, GW has left a little door open to support more exotic interpretations, which I appreciate.

I'd scour the 9th ed codex myself if I had it (or found it online), but I don't (haven't), so I ask for the help of others.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/30 17:30:53


And They Shall Not Fit Through Doors!!!

Tyranid Army Progress -- With Classic Warriors!:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/743240.page#9671598 
   
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 Insectum7 wrote:
(except Damocles, although I think the last reference there is from 8th)

Note that the reason I don't quote from the 9th ed. Codex is that my copy only contains the rules parts. I'd be very surprised if there wasn't very similar language regarding the minor Orders to what's in the 8th ed. book.
   
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 Lord Damocles wrote:
 Insectum7 wrote:
(except Damocles, although I think the last reference there is from 8th)

Note that the reason I don't quote from the 9th ed. Codex is that my copy only contains the rules parts. I'd be very surprised if there wasn't very similar language regarding the minor Orders to what's in the 8th ed. book.
Hehe yeah that's all I could find online.

I might have to ask around locally to see if anyone has a print copy I could borrow.

And They Shall Not Fit Through Doors!!!

Tyranid Army Progress -- With Classic Warriors!:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/743240.page#9671598 
   
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The dark hollows of Kentucky

Just because a piece of lore is "old" doesn't mean it no longer applies. If it's been removed or retconned in some way, then yes, it's gone. But if it hasn't been, it still applies. Gw routinely dredge up old lore for new models, units, games, etc. Zoats come to mind.
   
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Insectum7 wrote:
 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
Fair enough, it may not be *my* own comment - but if I'm not mistaken, that quote is still being presented outside of the context which I illustrated?

The relevant context is a thread where the OP asked "Is there any reason why Sorotitas cant be diverse likes astartes or astra militarum... Sure they all follow the same faith and have the same armor... But cant they be diverse (in lore and aesthetics) as the other main IOM factions"
The section I bolded explains the other part of that context as well, as well as certain *other* contexts around the creation of that thread, which I'm sure you're aware of.

That's all I want to add on that matter.

As for *this* topic - your models, your lore, do whatever you like!


They/them

 
   
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 Lord Damocles wrote:
FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Sitting here laughing, all it would take to shut people like us up, is for GW to display photos or recognition of a non-standard (I.E. Victorian Battle nuns in Black, red, white, and or gold) Sisters of Battle. Just throw us some SoB in bright orange with skulls on their base, or some bitted up sisters with wolf furs on them.

Well, you've got the Order of the Argent Shroud, and the Order of the Iron Veil, who wear silver armour; the Order of the Glowing Chalice, who have grey; the Order of the Thorn, who are cream; the Order of the Ashen Shrine who have orange/ochre robes (all in Codex: Adepta Soritas (8th ed.), pg.68); the Order of the Blue Robe (pictured is an Exorcist in blue/white) (Imperial Armour vol.2: Space Marines and Forces of the Inquisition (1st ed.)), who presumably have blue robes...

Why is gold on your list? As far as I'm aware, the Order of the Golden Light are the only order described with gold armour, so it's nowhere near as common as the red/black/white.


In all honesty: I could not remember all the color schemes they come in, and just pulled the last two colors out of my seat heater.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/30 19:42:13


 
   
 
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