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Made in us
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle





In My Lab

First off, this rules change may require modifying existing Leadership values. The existing values are a good starting point, but could need to be tweaked. It also relies on tagging some things "Command Abilities", which is nebulous right now.

Now, on to the proposal!

Suppression
Whenever a unit suffers a certain amount of casualties, or is the target of certain weapons, that unit must make a Leadership Test at the end of the phase. This test is taken by rolling 2d6 and comparing the result to their Leadership score-if the result is equal to or less than their Leadership (with modifiers accounted for), it is passed. If it is greater than their Leadership, it is failed.

When the first Leadership Test is failed, a unit is Suppressed. A Suppressed unit cannot benefit from Command Abilities, and must roll an additional d6 whenever they roll for Advancing or Charging, and discard one of their opponent's choice.
If a Suppressed unit fails a Leadership Test, they are Shocked. A Shocked unit still suffers from all the penalties of being Suppressed, and additionally treats their WS and BS as being one point worse than normal, to a minimum of 6+.

During the Morale Phase of your turn, a Suppressed or Shocked unit can make a Leadership Test. If it is passed, a Suppressed unit is no longer Suppressed, and a Shocked unit becomes only Suppressed. Failing this test does not do anything.

The following common occurrences can provoke Leadership Tests:

-When a full 25% of a unit's models are destroyed, take a test at the end of the phase
--If 50% or more are destroyed in a phase, take a test with +1 to the roll
--If 75% or more are destroyed in a phase, take a test with +3 to the roll
--Note that these values are based on the starting size of a unit, not its current size

-If a model with 8 or more wounds suffers 25% of their wounds in a single phase, take a test at the end of the phase
--If 50% or more wounds are suffered, take a test with +1 to the roll
--If 75% or more wounds are suffered, take a test with +3 to the roll
--Note that these values are based on starting wound count, not current wound count

-If any wounds are suffered from a Blast weapon or a weapon that automatically hits, take a test at the end of the phase
________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Command Abilities
I am not gonna go through the game and assign "Command" to every single ability. That'd be way too much work.

But this is things like a Captain's RR1s aura, or the Command Reroll stratagem. It would NOT be things like Transhuman Physiology, or an Apothecary's FNP aura.

General Notes
Various units could interact with these rules. Especially fearsome units could force nearby units to become Suppressed with their mere presence. Haywire weapons could, instead of doing mortal wounds, apply Shocked to vehicles they wound.

Also, the few characters that have 8+ wounds should probably have a special rule making them auto-pass tests taken for wounds taken. Guilliman, Ghaz... And that's all I can think of off-hand.

There should be no faction, at all, that is blanket immune to these rules.

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In this form, it drastically punishes melee and does little against shooting, in a game where shooting is already the strongest option.

Does this replace current Morale rules or are units still taking Morale/Attrition tests?

Except against Melee armies, where you just do enough damage to each unit to stop it from charging, why would one choose to attempt to suppress/break instead of just outright destroy the enemy unit? I guess it could also work against castles, where you can suppress the units around the hero so they are slightly less strong.

On the other hand, if suppression/breaking is as good as destroying a unit in the short term - why would you not want to outright destroy the enemy unit instead? They can recover from being broken/suppressed, but not being destroyed.

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I would also add that either suppressed or shocked units can't fire overwatch.
   
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In My Lab

Ork-en Man wrote:
I would also add that either suppressed or shocked units can't fire overwatch.
That can be accomplished by making the Overwatch Stratagem and anything that allows it Command Abilities. But good point, yes.

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Random idea to tack on:

What about the idea that Suppressed units are also harder to hit, creating an involountary Go To Ground (say additional -1 to hit a suppressed unit)

But then incorporate the old Epic rule of Crossfire (Surrounded? I forget the name) where if you can draw a line between two friendly units (perhaps within a certain range) through the Suppressed unit, the -1 to hit modifier is cancelled for said units.

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I like it! I've been pitching something like this for a while now. A few thoughts:
 JNAProductions wrote:

When the first Leadership Test is failed, a unit is Suppressed. A Suppressed unit cannot benefit from Command Abilities, and must roll an additional d6 whenever they roll for Advancing or Charging, and discard one of their opponent's choice.

Impacting charge rolls seems like it might be a bit too severe for melee armies. Plus, failing a random charge is already kind of a feelsbad moment, and this would make it happen more often. So I'd be tempted to drop the nerf to charge rolls. And at that point, I'd be tempted to drop the nerf to advance rolls just for simplicity's sake, but I get why it's there. I'd almost be tempted to suggest a flat Movement penalty or giving all units a flat lower Movement value that gets used when they're suppressed or otherwise debuffed, but that's probably outside the scope of this suggestion.

Also, why let your opponent choose which die to drop instead of just always dropping one of the highest results? It's unlikely to matter much, but it removes the opportunity for opponents to slow the game by overthinking it.


-If any wounds are suffered from a Blast weapon or a weapon that automatically hits, take a test at the end of the phase

I worry a bit about splitfiring mortars and such causing lots and lots of morale tests to be taken every turn. I get that focus firing makes you more likely to get at least one wound through, but you can still split fire all your blast shot units until a few of the enemy units have been wounded.

But overall, I like the direction you're going here.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Insectum7 wrote:
Random idea to tack on:

What about the idea that Suppressed units are also harder to hit, creating an involountary Go To Ground (say additional -1 to hit a suppressed unit)

I'd worry about creating a downside (as the attacker) to suppressing the enemy given that you're already not guaranteed to suppress a unit in the first place. Plus, I'm not sure a Go to Ground bonus makes sense when the unit is still allowed to move around on their turn (albeit a bit more slowly.)


But then incorporate the old Epic rule of Crossfire (Surrounded? I forget the name) where if you can draw a line between two friendly units (perhaps within a certain range) through the Suppressed unit, the -1 to hit modifier is cancelled for said units.

I like the idea of something like this in general, although it feels like you should be able to get a "crossfire" from a friendly unit at a 90* angle to the target instead of a 180. Of course, that gets tricky to work out (as has been discussed in "flanking" threads.)

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/10/01 05:46:44



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I like the idea of suppression being put in instead of morale - currently morale doesn't add to the imagery of the game - it's just more people being dead than there were before!

I have an alternative idea which builds on yours, but uses a mechanic I'm using for my own wargame which I think will work well!

Command Abilities - as you said, anything involving doing what you're told is a command ability, whereas being fixed up by a medic isn't. I would also include Objective Secured as a command ability - suppressed troops don't get it!

For triggering suppression, however, I propose it becomes a choice, and I'd lump suppressed and shocked together so it's just 1 thing to keep track of:

Suppression
After a unit rolls a combat attrition test, that unit may choose to become Suppressed instead of taking casualties.

Then you make suppression do this to them:

1/2 movement
-1 to WS and BS (meaning -1 to hit abilities still work)
Cannot benefit from command abilities
(possibly) cannot hold objectives - for balance.
cannot consolidate after combat - they aren't inclined to move closer to the enemy!

This would represent them becoming less effective but not running off. They keep their numbers, but become worse for it. Alternatively, you can push through the losses, suffer more people dying/running off, and those left alive will keep working at full capacity.

I'm always hesitant with go-to-ground style benefits as a gunline will always choose to get an extra +1 to saves from cover if it's an option. Making it all negative but the models remain alive seems a fair exchange, and makes for tactical decisions instead of random results, and you still have a chance for insane heroism!


I imagine it represents the whole unit working together to keep each other safe, rather than letting their comrades flee the battlefield and get gunned down.


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Here's what we did in ProHammer:

SURPRESSION: When a unit suffers more wounds (before saves) from a single unit's shooting attacks than the unit has in total wounds AND the unit suffers at least one unsaved wound, then unit must take a PINNING* test. .

Certain weapons types also force PINNING tests and/or units can become automatically pinned when embarked on a wrecked transport, and at various other points.

PINNING TEST: The unit makes a morale test (using LD) with the following modifiers: -1 if below half strength; -1 if out of coherency; -1 for each previous pinning test the unit was forced to make this turn. If the test fails, (roll above modified LD) then the unit is pinned.

EFFECTS OF PINNED UNITS:
* Do NOT gain the benefit of going to ground (units MAY decide to go to ground whenever a shooting attack is declared against them)..
* On their next turn: Only move D3", May not Advance. Only shoot with snap fire (hits on 6+). May not charge.
* Pinned units that are assaulted do not count as being in cover and strike at imitative 1. After this turn's assault phase, they fight normally and are no longer pinned.
* Pinned units that are also broken must take a fallback move but only move D3" instead of the usual 2D6"

Honestly, we forget to use the suppression rule most of the time! But depending on the situation and units involved, it can force a choice between going to ground versus risking having to take pinning test. Going to ground provides a +1 to your cover save, but next turn can still only crawl D3", shoot with snap fire, and cannot charge. You lose your cover bonus when assaulted but attack at normal initiative value (so it's a little better than being pinned).

I'm contemplating a tweak where units can declare their shooting is suppressive vs normal. The difference being that with suppressive fire, it doesn't trigger a normal morale test for taking 25% loses but instead triggers a pinning test if the conditions are met.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/10/01 17:17:58


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