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In Gladius's chaos campaign, the main chaos lord brings in a female "aspirant sorcerer" to analyze the messages Tzeentch sends. After analysis she says he is overstepping himself, and the chaos lord sacrifices her to Tzeentch out of rage.

My googling of "aspirant sorcerers" found nothing. All I could find is that they lead the rubrik marines. That's it. I can't find how they increase their numbers or how one becomes an "aspirant sorcerer".

It is my understanding that chaos sorcerers are former space marines. And space marines are all male. And all the models of aspirant sorcerers I can find are power armored to the same extent as the chaos space marines.

So how did a female become an "aspirant sorcerer" of the chaos space marines? And I'm pretty sure it's not mutations. The sorcerer was relatively unmutated at the start and became a lot more twisted post-communication with tzeentch.

she's a mortal sorcrer not an astartes.

Chaos Sorcerer is a catch-all term for people who use Chaos/Magic. Any Psyker which turns to Chaos and starts using rituals and daemons and chaotic artifacts can be described as a Sorcerer. It's not a gendered term. It's just that chaos forces in the game are usually Space Marine traitors, but they don't represent even the majority of the Chaos Forces in general.

BrianDavion wrote:
she's a mortal sorcrer not an astartes.

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
Chaos Sorcerer is a catch-all term for people who use Chaos/Magic. Any Psyker which turns to Chaos and starts using rituals and daemons and chaotic artifacts can be described as a Sorcerer. It's not a gendered term. It's just that chaos forces in the game are usually Space Marine traitors, but they don't represent even the majority of the Chaos Forces in general.

She's specifically called an "aspirant sorcerer". Aren't all "aspirant sorcerers" astartes? They're the ones leading the Rubrik marines and they're power armored just as heavily. Which makes all "aspirant sorcerers" Tzeentch's (cause he owns the Rubriks), and this "aspirant sorcerer" was called to interpret Tzeentch.

aspiraing sorcerers are useally connected with squad leaders in 1k sons but there's no reason they have to be.

Yeah, there are tons of Aspiring Cultist Sorcerers that are female mortal stock. The big bad in the new dark whatever series about the crusade is a mortal female sorcerer that directly serves the Chaos lord on the planet.

All chaos space marines are not former loyalist astartes, and chaos is literally magic from a wizard that can turn you into a gibbering mass of mouths or a gigantic daemon.

Whatever in universe handwavey-science restriction on male-only astartes just does not apply to newly-minted-by-chaos chaos space marines, which will almost inevitably include the involvement of those aforementioned magical gods. Ascending to chaos space marine-hood is consistently mentioned to be one of the goals of various mortal cultists, all of whom tend to be portrayed as adults anyway which ALSO makes them ineligible for the traditional marine-making process as the imperium understands it.

We know chaos can turn adult mortal cultists into new chaos space marines -> chaos can also transform humans and space marines into much wilder, crazier physical forms than just space marines like dragons and winged daemons and blobs of flesh -> female chaos space marines are basically an inevitability...especially considering that some warbands probably would consider that to be a fantastic middle finger to the supposedly "all powerful" imperium. Look, we can do what you can't do with the power of our gods!

roboemperor wrote:
Aren't all "aspirant sorcerers" astartes?

No, it's just a term to seperate them from the fully fledged sorcerers. Kind of like 'aspiring champion' and 'champion'.

The Tzeentch background all the way back to the original Realms of Chaos books has the existence of thrall wizards. They are basically the non-SM psyker servants of the Thousand Sons, performing menial sorcerous tasks or helping their masters up to and including being sacrifices. They do so in the hope of Thrall-Champion, and possibly then a Champion of Tzeentch in their own right and then hopefully a Daemon Prince. Remember that not all Champions of a Chaos god have to be CSM. It's just that GW has focused on them for many editions now almost to the exclusion of non-CSM Chaos Champions.

I'm sure the number of mortal chaos sorcerer/wizard/witch/shaman/whatever outnumbers the total number of 1ksons.

Racerguy180 wrote:
I'm sure the number of mortal chaos sorcerer/wizard/witch/shaman/whatever on a single planet (i.e. Necromunda) outnumbers the total number of 1ksons.

Slight addition

True true...

roboemperor wrote:

She's specifically called an "aspirant sorcerer". Aren't all "aspirant sorcerers" astartes? They're the ones leading the Rubrik marines and they're power armored just as heavily. Which makes all "aspirant sorcerers" Tzeentch's (cause he owns the Rubriks), and this "aspirant sorcerer" was called to interpret Tzeentch.

There's more to the world that the models you see on the table.

Which makes your leap from "all aspirant sorcerers there are models for are Thousand Sons characters" to "all aspirant sorcerers there are models for are the only ones that exist therefore ..."

That is, of course, before even getting into "What, you don't think Tzeentch could do it?"

 the_scotsman wrote:
All chaos space marines are not former loyalist astartes, and chaos is literally magic from a wizard that can turn you into a gibbering mass of mouths or a gigantic daemon.

Whatever in universe handwavey-science restriction on male-only astartes just does not apply to newly-minted-by-chaos chaos space marines, which will almost inevitably include the involvement of those aforementioned magical gods. Ascending to chaos space marine-hood is consistently mentioned to be one of the goals of various mortal cultists, all of whom tend to be portrayed as adults anyway which ALSO makes them ineligible for the traditional marine-making process as the imperium understands it.

We know chaos can turn adult mortal cultists into new chaos space marines -> chaos can also transform humans and space marines into much wilder, crazier physical forms than just space marines like dragons and winged daemons and blobs of flesh -> female chaos space marines are basically an inevitability...especially considering that some warbands probably would consider that to be a fantastic middle finger to the supposedly "all powerful" imperium. Look, we can do what you can't do with the power of our gods!

This is why female CSMs are ten times cooler as an idea than female loyalist marines

 the_scotsman wrote:
All chaos space marines are not former loyalist astartes, and chaos is literally magic from a wizard that can turn you into a gibbering mass of mouths or a gigantic daemon.

Whatever in universe handwavey-science restriction on male-only astartes just does not apply to newly-minted-by-chaos chaos space marines, which will almost inevitably include the involvement of those aforementioned magical gods. Ascending to chaos space marine-hood is consistently mentioned to be one of the goals of various mortal cultists, all of whom tend to be portrayed as adults anyway which ALSO makes them ineligible for the traditional marine-making process as the imperium understands it.

We know chaos can turn adult mortal cultists into new chaos space marines -> chaos can also transform humans and space marines into much wilder, crazier physical forms than just space marines like dragons and winged daemons and blobs of flesh -> female chaos space marines are basically an inevitability...especially considering that some warbands probably would consider that to be a fantastic middle finger to the supposedly "all powerful" imperium. Look, we can do what you can't do with the power of our gods!

Wait, so you're saying even Masters of Possession and other special chaos sorcerers have females within their ranks?

Do you know where I can read more about adult mortal cultists turning into new chaos space marines? I always thought csm was finite in number cause their gene seeds become too mutated for future reliable use.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Yeah, there are tons of Aspiring Cultist Sorcerers that are female mortal stock. The big bad in the new dark whatever series about the crusade is a mortal female sorcerer that directly serves the Chaos lord on the planet.

There are a lot of "dark whatever" series. If you could remember the exact "whatever" that'd be incredibly helpful!

A.T. wrote:
No, it's just a term to seperate them from the fully fledged sorcerers. Kind of like 'aspiring champion' and 'champion'.

 solkan wrote:
There's more to the world that the models you see on the table.

Which makes your leap from "all aspirant sorcerers there are models for are Thousand Sons characters" to "all aspirant sorcerers there are models for are the only ones that exist therefore ..."

That is, of course, before even getting into "What, you don't think Tzeentch could do it?"

But aren't "aspirant sorcerers" an actual squad leader unit type name? Wouldn't that mean every time "aspirant sorcerer" is mentioned it's referring to rubrik marines squad leaders? As in if the books say "necron pariah", they're referring to the necron pariah unit instead of a necron who is considered a pariah in his own dynasty. So likewise when they say "aspirant sorcerer", they're referring to rubrik marines squad leader instead of a cultist who is aspiring to be a sorcerer.

roboemperor wrote:
Do you know where I can read more about adult mortal cultists turning into new chaos space marines? I always thought csm was finite in number cause their gene seeds become too mutated for future reliable use.

One of the Iron Warriors novels ( Storm of Iron?) has a suit of power armour choosing a new (female slave) occupant.

roboemperor wrote:
But aren't "aspirant sorcerers" an actual squad leader unit type name?

It's more like a rank. Lexicanum defines it as:

Aspiring Sorcerer: Sorcerers in training before becoming true Chaos Sorcerers

beast_gts wrote:
One of the Iron Warriors novels ( Storm of Iron?) has a suit of power armour choosing a new (female slave) occupant.

That is definitely something I'd love to read. I'm a go see if I can find it.

roboemperor wrote:
But aren't "aspirant sorcerers" an actual squad leader unit type name? Wouldn't that mean every time "aspirant sorcerer" is mentioned it's referring to rubrik marines squad leaders?

'Veteran Sergeant' is a unit type name.
Not every veteran sergeant is a Space Marine.

And the Thousand Sons unit is called Aspiring Sorcerer anyway...

beast_gts wrote:
One of the Iron Warriors novels ( Storm of Iron?) has a suit of power armour choosing a new (female slave) occupant.

Found it and read it.

The female's name is Larana Utorian. And the Chaos Space Marine suit is a Daemon Engine I guess. As Larana put on the suit, she gained muscles and the insides of the suit collapsed to fit her form because I guess a muscled woman is smaller than Kroeger, the original owner of the armor. And then the Daemon then possessed her. Larana has 0 control over her body and can do absolutely nothing but scream inside her mind, but she seems to be able to at least see what the Daemon sees.

The Daemon is now called the "Avatar of Khorne" and exploded an entire battalion? of imperial troops and consumed their souls, growing to "monstrous proportions" but I guess his armor grew with him? All it says it creaked and groaned to contain all the power it just absorbed so I think its still whole meaning it grew with the Daemon. And that's how the book ends, he caps some librarian and walks into a space-time rift he cut open as Larana screamed inside her head.

So...... yeah. Her body was able to wear the armor fully before being fully possessed but I don't know if she rejected the Daemon at the last moment her body would shrink back down.

Anyways, this is a "possessed" and not a CSM nor a Chaos sorcerer so I think it's irrelevant?

edit: Are there any Daemon or Possessed Chaos Sorcerers?

I would imagine that sorcerers are pretty close to being possessed at all times, with their mind being pretty open to the warp

Once they get possessed their sorcerer powers will be based on they type of daemon doing the possessing I suppose.

Nobody's yet mentioned Savona from the Fabius Bile novels?

A female chaos cultist who was given a suit of power armour, ate some geneseed and became an exalted champion of Slaanesh, later ending up in charge of the 12th Millennial (i.e. chapter) of the Emperor's Children legion.

She might not technically have been an Astartes, but she was able to fight 'true' Astartes on an equal footing (not relying on weight of numbers like the gland-hounds). You could certainly represent her or someone like her in game as a CSM champion or lord.

So take someone like Savona and make her a psyker and she'd basically be a 'counts as' CSM sorcerer.

 Duskweaver wrote:
Nobody's yet mentioned Savona from the Fabius Bile novels?

A female chaos cultist who was given a suit of power armour, ate some geneseed and became an exalted champion of Slaanesh, later ending up in charge of the 12th Millennial (i.e. chapter) of the Emperor's Children legion.

She might not technically have been an Astartes, but she was able to fight 'true' Astartes on an equal footing (not relying on weight of numbers like the gland-hounds). You could certainly represent her or someone like her in game as a CSM champion or lord.

So take someone like Savona and make her a psyker and she'd basically be a 'counts as' CSM sorcerer.

She was a cool character, I think she killed an EC for her power armour and that it was grafted onto her or part of her body somehow by chaos powers. Which is true for many EC aswell.

I’m hoping that many of the characters from those novels are available as characters if we ever get an EC codex. Although she would be a good kitbash project

Not all Chaos Sorcerers are Space Marines.

That's the answer.

Iracundus wrote:
The Tzeentch background all the way back to the original Realms of Chaos books has the existence of thrall wizards. They are basically the non-SM psyker servants of the Thousand Sons, performing menial sorcerous tasks or helping their masters up to and including being sacrifices. They do so in the hope of Thrall-Champion, and possibly then a Champion of Tzeentch in their own right and then hopefully a Daemon Prince. Remember that not all Champions of a Chaos god have to be CSM. It's just that GW has focused on them for many editions now almost to the exclusion of non-CSM Chaos Champions.

This, and It is not helped by GW shooting Lost and the damned / R&H in the back consistently to sell more Power armor power fantasies.

 Duskweaver wrote:
A female chaos cultist who was given a suit of power armour, ate some geneseed and became an exalted champion of Slaanesh, later ending up in charge of the 12th Millennial (i.e. chapter) of the Emperor's Children legion.

It's times like this that daemonic mutation is a big advantage, rather than being an expanding human in not-expanding human power armour or a regular human stretch-armstronged into astartes armour...

It’s a shame that GW didn’t add cultists to the DG and TS codexes, squads of wanna be sorceresses hurling warp bullets would have been cool