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Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





England: Newcastle

Got a narrative campaign coming up and we did a prologue game where I took a bunch of marines.

Yeah…

Iam not sure how my Sisters are meant to counter them. Gof boyz hit like a truck. They kill anything they touch and aren’t easy to shift. If they can kill ten marines then they’re going to mince any Sacresanct, Paragon or SoB squad. Plus they’re so quick that they can cross the threat range of my short range firepower. I’ll (maybe) get one turn of shooting and I can’t kill a 100 Ork Boyz in one turn. Plus, they’ll have warbosses, def dreads and other stuff.

Plus, if it’s objectives I can’t just sit in the corner whilst a wall of Orks sweeps the table.

Your Ork boy has better strength, better WS, much higher toughness that negates heavy bolter fire, a choppy that reduces armour. I mean if they hadn’t boosted all flamers weapons strength they’d have zero chance of stopping Orks. I am going to probably add a second heavy flamer team but again short range and I need the max hits strat and two cherubs to kill 20 Orks. Each of them is kind of better than a Blood Angels assault intercessor in damage.





This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/10/15 17:34:31



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Made in us
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Quick answer to boyz is probably one of those Volkite dreads youz beekiez got. Though presuming you don’t want to dump loads of money, heavy flamers are your best bet. I don’t know where you’re getting that they’re super fast, you would’ve struggled last edition with perma advance and charge . I’d maybe reccomend some leadership debuffs if you’ve got em, if you can decrease multiple squads to morale taking levels orks majorly bleed from morale losses.
One huge huge advantage you have over orks is sources of fight first/last. If you get a punchy anti horde melee squad and you fight last a squad of boyz, it doesn’t end well for em.

"Us Blood Axes hav lernt' a lot from da humies. How best ta kill 'em, fer example."
— Korporal Snagbrat of the Dreadblade Kommandos 
   
Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User





Do you have something against penitent engines? Because penitent engines are one of the easiest answers. Two of them are a heavy flamer retributor squad that can also mulch things in melee.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





England: Newcastle

 Some_Call_Me_Tim wrote:
Quick answer to boyz is probably one of those Volkite dreads youz beekiez got. Though presuming you don’t want to dump loads of money, heavy flamers are your best bet. I don’t know where you’re getting that they’re super fast, you would’ve struggled last edition with perma advance and charge . I’d maybe reccomend some leadership debuffs if you’ve got em, if you can decrease multiple squads to morale taking levels orks majorly bleed from morale losses.
One huge huge advantage you have over orks is sources of fight first/last. If you get a punchy anti horde melee squad and you fight last a squad of boyz, it doesn’t end well for em.


They only need to charge once and two turns of Waagh is enough. In the practice game it was basically in my face immediately. Most Sisters guns are only 24 if that and you can cover that in a single turn. You’re not going to have the luxury of two turns shooting including rapid fire. Plus, the Orks will be shooting back. Like really, I don’t see how there enough firepower to stop 200 Ork Boyz steamrolling your line.

Do Sisters of Battle have any go last debuff units/strata?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Commitz wrote:
Do you have something against penitent engines? Because penitent engines are one of the easiest answers. Two of them are a heavy flamer retributor squad that can also mulch things in melee.


I’ve got three but they’re not exactly cheap points wise. Plus when I’ve used them they were usually clearing away chaff units that couldn’t seriously hurt them.

Ah, do you mean the flail armed ones?

Main issue Id have is if they get charged they’re basically dead. In my head I keep looping back round to that problem.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/10/15 17:50:49



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Made in gb
Lord of the Fleet






London

How many Boys is he running? First it was 100, now it's 200. Giving us an idea of what he's actually running would help.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





England: Newcastle

 Valkyrie wrote:
How many Boys is he running? First it was 100, now it's 200. Giving us an idea of what he's actually running would help.


I think it was

Warboss with huge choppy and mega armour
Two mobs of 20 choppa boyz
A mob of 20 shoota Boyz with heavy weapons
A Nobz unit with ten guys and various CC weapons
3 meganobz
A deff dread mob with 3 units
A killer kan mob
A buggy that fired squigs
Three def koptas
A battle wagon with a lot of missiles and dakka
A looted vehicle with basically an Earth shaker on it
10 Gretchin (who tanked a ten man combi flamer squad)

Thing is, the dreads and shooting were manageable. They went down pretty neatly. But those Boyz just carved through everything.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/10/15 17:59:01



Starting Sons of Horus Legion

Starting Daughters of Khaine

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 Totalwar1402 wrote:

Main issue Id have is if they get charged they’re basically dead. In my head I keep looping back round to that problem.


I mean that's how the orks are going to kill things so that's a given, just got to screen things well and set up counter charge opportunities.
If you're really worried about getting charged you could also just use the mortifiers with their fight-on-death chance.
   
Made in us
Stabbin' Skarboy





24 is pretty difficult, 5+d6 then a reroll charge should average out to like what, 16 inches?
I’m not entirely sure if sisters have it, but it seems like everyone but orks does these days
If he has 200 boyz (minimum 1800 points!) then maybe look for some vehicles or somethin? They probably won’t be able to take care of em if they just have choppa slugs boyz, a warboss, and what I’m assuming is a melee deff dred. Boyz can’t shoot if they’re advancing, and even if he theoretically got 200 slugga boyz in range of you, that’s only an average of only 14 sisters dead.
Sisters have some special buffs for their bolters right? If not, I guess try and out melee em or somethin.
You have a tough time, but it’s not super un-winnable
I guess heroic last stands aren’t the worst way to go out though.

"Us Blood Axes hav lernt' a lot from da humies. How best ta kill 'em, fer example."
— Korporal Snagbrat of the Dreadblade Kommandos 
   
Made in es
Inquisitorial Keeper of the Xenobanks






your mind

Play on a larger table, deny a flank, use templates for exorcist blast weapons and flamers, take advantage of overwatch… ok, play an earlier edition of the game.

Srsly, orks can have trouble getting so many units into a deployment zone and then getting them into combat. I know that 9th might not be friendly to this approach, but is it possible to force them to funnel through some choke points and fire lanes down which you can hose them with concentrated fire? When they get close, toss some dedicated h to h units at them, and bring friends e.g. assassins, maybe a vindicare can execute his leadership?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/10/15 21:26:22


   
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Ancient Venerable Dreadnought




San Jose, CA

By Bolter, Melta & Flamer
   
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Stabbin' Skarboy





 jeff white wrote:
Play on a larger table, deny a flank, use templates for exorcist blast weapons and flamers, take advantage of overwatch… ok, play an earlier edition of the game.

Srsly, orks can have trouble getting so many units into a deployment zone and then getting them into combat. I know that 9th might not be friendly to this approach, but is it possible to force them to funnel through some choke points and fire lanes down which you can hose them with concentrated fire? When they get close, toss some dedicated h to h units at them, and bring friends e.g. assassins, maybe a vindicare can execute his leadership?


If you end up doin an earlier edition, do 5th. The 7th Ed ork codex is the gakkiest pile of squig drops to ever exist.

"Us Blood Axes hav lernt' a lot from da humies. How best ta kill 'em, fer example."
— Korporal Snagbrat of the Dreadblade Kommandos 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





England: Newcastle

 jeff white wrote:
Play on a larger table, deny a flank, use templates for exorcist blast weapons and flamers on overwatch… ok, play an earlier edition of the game.

Srsly, orks can have trouble getting so many units into a deployment zone and then getting them into combat. I know that 9th might not be friendly to this approach, but is it possible to force them to funnel through some choke points and fire lanes down which you can hose them with concentrated fire? When they get close, toss some dedicated h to h units at them, and bring friends e.g. assassins, maybe a vindicare can execute his leadership?


I don’t really see how that could happen. Open war cards, 9 inch radius. He’s over that in one turn and next turn he’s in my deployment zone.

Sure I was not running a proper long range gun line. But my Sisters are fairly similar. Lots of bolters and flamers with some close combat support.

I think partly it was bad luck, deep striking Vanguard squad failing a charge on a mob of Boyz then getting charged themselves. Not realising there was a strat rule that forced you to shoot Gretchen and burning one turn of flamer shots with Sternguard. Plus I misjudged and sent another vanguard forward hoping to hit him before he hit me.

It was a weird game because I then randomly had a five man terminator squad and terminator captain go on a mad rampage on one side of the board. Killed two def dreads, three meganobs, a weirdboy, a looted tank, the squigbuggy and a few boys.

Plus I really don’t like sitting in the corner. Especially in an objective game and hugging the back line just isn’t right.

Like I figured I’d have one good round of fire before close combat and then countercharge. But basically he had a lot of fire coming my way and my bolters really weren’t doing anything. Characters and terminators were putting some work in but everything else just died so quickly.



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9th Ed in a nutshell is “everything just died so quickly” lol.

"Us Blood Axes hav lernt' a lot from da humies. How best ta kill 'em, fer example."
— Korporal Snagbrat of the Dreadblade Kommandos 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





England: Newcastle

 Some_Call_Me_Tim wrote:
9th Ed in a nutshell is “everything just died so quickly” lol.


I know right. I really don’t like that. Battles should have some element of attrition and be a proper clash of the line. Not a game of wack a mole. It was the same with Heresy. People took troops as a tax and then took the best tanks and deep striking/outflank units they could and won. By all means SOME characters and units should be dangerous but I think there’s this weird idea to make the game more dramatic by making actions more impactful. I shoot, I kill a unit. I assault, I kill a unit. Very much feels that way as the edition goes on.


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Longtime Dakkanaut




 Totalwar1402 wrote:

I think it was

Warboss with huge choppy and mega armour
Two mobs of 20 choppa boyz
A mob of 20 shoota Boyz with heavy weapons
A Nobz unit with ten guys and various CC weapons
3 meganobz
A deff dread mob with 3 units
A killer kan mob
A buggy that fired squigs
Three def koptas
A battle wagon with a lot of missiles and dakka
A looted vehicle with basically an Earth shaker on it
10 Gretchin (who tanked a ten man combi flamer squad)

Thing is, the dreads and shooting were manageable. They went down pretty neatly. But those Boyz just carved through everything.


Lets start with the basics. its 40 Choppa Boyz in 2 mobz of 20 and 1 Mob of 20 Shoota boyz (Who suck). Then you have 10 Nobz, 3 meganobz and a host of lesser things. So it wasn't 200 boyz or even 100...it was 60.

First off, if he is getting into your lines turn 1 with this list...than you failed in the deployment phase or he cheated. Boyz movement is 5. If they advance its D6 which even under optimal circumstances is a total of 11, while the average is 8.5', which means he shouldn't even be in reliable charge range turn 1 on an 18' neutral zone map.
Second, Ork boyz morale is god awful, there are no buffs to worry about for the most part from boyz, so focus fire down the melee boyz, it is OK to split fire them since they no longer have green tide. If you can kill 6 in each mob, he likely fails morale and loses 1+1/6th of what is left.

As far as killing boyz with sisters....it takes 5.4 Bolter shots to kill 1 Ork Boy. A Heavy flamer basically kills D6 /2 boyz each. A Heavy Bolter averages 1 Dead Boy a turn. Basically, there are a host of easy ways to kill boyz. If you struggle with boyz your list is probably lacking or the dice gods were against you.

A SOB is 11pts, has a 3+ save, BS3 and a bolter. A Boy is 9pts, has a 6+ save and sucks at range so he relies on getting into CC to work with his WS3+ and his S4 -1AP Choppa (S5 for goffs on the charge). So utilize your strengths and maximize their weaknesses. Retreat back, shoot them and then when the CC threats are dealt with then you can focus on the ranged threats.

 Tomsug wrote:
Semper krumps under the radar

 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





England: Newcastle

SemperMortis wrote:
 Totalwar1402 wrote:

I think it was

Warboss with huge choppy and mega armour
Two mobs of 20 choppa boyz
A mob of 20 shoota Boyz with heavy weapons
A Nobz unit with ten guys and various CC weapons
3 meganobz
A deff dread mob with 3 units
A killer kan mob
A buggy that fired squigs
Three def koptas
A battle wagon with a lot of missiles and dakka
A looted vehicle with basically an Earth shaker on it
10 Gretchin (who tanked a ten man combi flamer squad)

Thing is, the dreads and shooting were manageable. They went down pretty neatly. But those Boyz just carved through everything.


Lets start with the basics. its 40 Choppa Boyz in 2 mobz of 20 and 1 Mob of 20 Shoota boyz (Who suck). Then you have 10 Nobz, 3 meganobz and a host of lesser things. So it wasn't 200 boyz or even 100...it was 60.

First off, if he is getting into your lines turn 1 with this list...than you failed in the deployment phase or he cheated. Boyz movement is 5. If they advance its D6 which even under optimal circumstances is a total of 11, while the average is 8.5', which means he shouldn't even be in reliable charge range turn 1 on an 18' neutral zone map.
Second, Ork boyz morale is god awful, there are no buffs to worry about for the most part from boyz, so focus fire down the melee boyz, it is OK to split fire them since they no longer have green tide. If you can kill 6 in each mob, he likely fails morale and loses 1+1/6th of what is left.

As far as killing boyz with sisters....it takes 5.4 Bolter shots to kill 1 Ork Boy. A Heavy flamer basically kills D6 /2 boyz each. A Heavy Bolter averages 1 Dead Boy a turn. Basically, there are a host of easy ways to kill boyz. If you struggle with boyz your list is probably lacking or the dice gods were against you.

A SOB is 11pts, has a 3+ save, BS3 and a bolter. A Boy is 9pts, has a 6+ save and sucks at range so he relies on getting into CC to work with his WS3+ and his S4 -1AP Choppa (S5 for goffs on the charge). So utilize your strengths and maximize their weaknesses. Retreat back, shoot them and then when the CC threats are dealt with then you can focus on the ranged threats.


The rest of the Orks are work in progress.

It was a turn two charge. One Ork mob plus the Nobz were in the battle wagon with the Warboss who slammed into a chaplain, a vanguard and Sternguard squad. I think a melee dread also got involved somewhere. The second vanguard squad landed at the back line and fluffed a charge on a separate Ork boy squad. But basically that one charge completely wrecked the army. Pretty much just some tacticals and a terminator squad after that.

Wouldn’t I concede the board if I did that though? I mean in this case I had no choice anyway. He came at me in a wave blasting rockets so I ended up pinned in the corner anyway.

I don’t know. I like having the black wall of gunfire but I just don’t think bolters will dent T5. Should the points go elsewhere. Sure, I d be doubling my shots with Sisters but even Crimson Fists tacticals weren’t doing the work. A squad of shooting to kill 2 boys does not fill me with confidence.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/10/15 22:31:13



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III Legion 5000pts
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Hive Fleet Khadrim 5000pts
Kabal of the Torn Lotus .4000pts
Coalition of neo Sacea 5000pts



 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Totalwar1402 wrote:


The rest of the Orks are work in progress.

It was a turn two charge. One Ork mob plus the Nobz were in the battle wagon with the Warboss who slammed into a chaplain, a vanguard and Sternguard squad. I think a melee dread also got involved somewhere. The second vanguard squad landed at the back line and fluffed a charge on a separate Ork boy squad. But basically that one charge completely wrecked the army. Pretty much just some tacticals and a terminator squad after that.

Wouldn’t I concede the board if I did that though? I mean in this case I had no choice anyway. He came at me in a wave blasting rockets so I ended up pinned in the corner anyway.

I don’t know. I like having the black wall of gunfire but I just don’t think bolters will dent T5. Should the points go elsewhere. Sure, I d be doubling my shots with Sisters but even Crimson Fists tacticals weren’t doing the work. A squad of shooting to kill 2 boys does not fill me with confidence.


Then he was cheating. A Wagon has a transport capacity of 20. So if you put 20 boyz inside its full and the nobz/warboss can't fit. On top of that, Wagons can no longer take rokkitz, only big shootas. And without a single upgrade to any single unit you mentioned and with MSU KillaKanz you are already at almost 1900pts for Orkz. The upgrades you mentioned pretty much max out the list meaning the Nobz didn't have PKs etc.

And those units can't get out and charge after the wagon moves, which means it had to move 12' turn 1, for you to stand still and let 20 boyz hop out and charge turn 2. And again, nothing else could have been in that wagon since its capacity was already maxed out. As far as failing your turn 2 charge from deep strike...yeah its a 9' charge, your likely going to fail that charge so you are better off not making it common sense my man.

Again as far as killing Ork infantry, T5 sounds scary, but its still a 6+ save. 10 bolter hits used to kill 4.1 Boyz when they were 6-8ppm, (24-32pts dead) now they kill 2.7 at 9ppm (25pts dead) so the difference is minimal to say the least. Use your dakka more wisely, an ork player running foot sloggin boyz shouldn't be able to do anything to you.


 Tomsug wrote:
Semper krumps under the radar

 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





England: Newcastle

SemperMortis wrote:
 Totalwar1402 wrote:


The rest of the Orks are work in progress.

It was a turn two charge. One Ork mob plus the Nobz were in the battle wagon with the Warboss who slammed into a chaplain, a vanguard and Sternguard squad. I think a melee dread also got involved somewhere. The second vanguard squad landed at the back line and fluffed a charge on a separate Ork boy squad. But basically that one charge completely wrecked the army. Pretty much just some tacticals and a terminator squad after that.

Wouldn’t I concede the board if I did that though? I mean in this case I had no choice anyway. He came at me in a wave blasting rockets so I ended up pinned in the corner anyway.

I don’t know. I like having the black wall of gunfire but I just don’t think bolters will dent T5. Should the points go elsewhere. Sure, I d be doubling my shots with Sisters but even Crimson Fists tacticals weren’t doing the work. A squad of shooting to kill 2 boys does not fill me with confidence.


Then he was cheating. A Wagon has a transport capacity of 20. So if you put 20 boyz inside its full and the nobz/warboss can't fit. On top of that, Wagons can no longer take rokkitz, only big shootas. And without a single upgrade to any single unit you mentioned and with MSU KillaKanz you are already at almost 1900pts for Orkz. The upgrades you mentioned pretty much max out the list meaning the Nobz didn't have PKs etc.

And those units can't get out and charge after the wagon moves, which means it had to move 12' turn 1, for you to stand still and let 20 boyz hop out and charge turn 2. And again, nothing else could have been in that wagon since its capacity was already maxed out. As far as failing your turn 2 charge from deep strike...yeah its a 9' charge, your likely going to fail that charge so you are better off not making it common sense my man.

Again as far as killing Ork infantry, T5 sounds scary, but its still a 6+ save. 10 bolter hits used to kill 4.1 Boyz when they were 6-8ppm, (24-32pts dead) now they kill 2.7 at 9ppm (25pts dead) so the difference is minimal to say the least. Use your dakka more wisely, an ork player running foot sloggin boyz shouldn't be able to do anything to you.



No the Ork Boyz were outside running. Tenish Nobz were in the wagon with the Boss. I think it had big shootas and a cannon of some kind. There was a lot of rockets coming from various sources either way. Partly why I wanted to attack him before he attacked me.

The Nobz definitely had power klaws and such. I’d have to fish out the list to check points for the armies but if there was an error it would have been an honest mistake.

Oh no, he rode that wagon right in front of fifty marines and waited for a turn. I decided to be an idiot and thought I could hit the squishy stuff behind it before the horror charged me. I couldn’t just move backwards because then I’d be leaving my cover and get rocketed to death and be conceding the map. Plus I want to be close enough to rapid fire him.

But then why deep strike the unit if it’s out the game until turn 3? I’d just put it in back line in that case.

He’s not just going to have just Boyz though. I really wanted to blast the Boyz squad with bolters and flamers but he had then behind the wagon and the Dreads and the Gretchen. So I had an even more limited window to blast them.

I mean that was literally just me taking two Heresy forces I did recently and rolling them as random chapters. My Ultra would probably have had some Eradicators to knock out the Wagon and then bolt rifle everything.

It was more just that moment when the Ork Boyz wiped an entire Vanguard squad and then another (with Deff dread help in that case) wiped the Sternguard squad. Like even my mate was taken aback. Knew the Boss and Nobs would be good but that surprised him.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Just double checked and it was a 2k game.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/10/15 23:36:58



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Made in us
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 Totalwar1402 wrote:

No the Ork Boyz were outside running. Tenish Nobz were in the wagon with the Boss. I think it had big shootas and a cannon of some kind. There was a lot of rockets coming from various sources either way. Partly why I wanted to attack him before he attacked me.
The Nobz definitely had power klaws and such. I’d have to fish out the list to check points for the armies but if there was an error it would have been an honest mistake.
Oh no, he rode that wagon right in front of fifty marines and waited for a turn. I decided to be an idiot and thought I could hit the squishy stuff behind it before the horror charged me.
But then why deep strike the unit if it’s out the game until turn 3? I’d just put it in back line in that case.
He’s not just going to have just Boyz though. I really wanted to blast the Boyz squad with bolters and flamers but he had then behind the wagon and the Dreads and the Gretchen. So I had an even more limited window to blast them.
I mean that was literally just me taking two Heresy forces I did recently and rolling them as random chapters. My Ultra would probably have had some Eradicators to knock out the Wagon and then bolt rifle everything.


So you let a Wagon advance 12, likely advance into your face turn 1 (assuming he went first) and you ignored it and instead focused on the Foot sloggin boyz who moved and advanced 6-11' max. Again, that is 60 foot sloggin boyz, 20 of which were borderline USELESS! 20 shoota boyz average 1 dead Marine a turn...that is it...1, even in Dakka range its only 1.5 dead.

If you struggled to kill 40 Boyz to the point where he was able to destroy your army turn 2 then he was either the luckiest SOB in the world or you made a lot of tactical errors. What was your list in detail? Because honestly his is garbage so I don't know how you weren't able to take this list out relatively fast.

 Tomsug wrote:
Semper krumps under the radar

 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





England: Newcastle

SemperMortis wrote:
 Totalwar1402 wrote:

No the Ork Boyz were outside running. Tenish Nobz were in the wagon with the Boss. I think it had big shootas and a cannon of some kind. There was a lot of rockets coming from various sources either way. Partly why I wanted to attack him before he attacked me.
The Nobz definitely had power klaws and such. I’d have to fish out the list to check points for the armies but if there was an error it would have been an honest mistake.
Oh no, he rode that wagon right in front of fifty marines and waited for a turn. I decided to be an idiot and thought I could hit the squishy stuff behind it before the horror charged me.
But then why deep strike the unit if it’s out the game until turn 3? I’d just put it in back line in that case.
He’s not just going to have just Boyz though. I really wanted to blast the Boyz squad with bolters and flamers but he had then behind the wagon and the Dreads and the Gretchen. So I had an even more limited window to blast them.
I mean that was literally just me taking two Heresy forces I did recently and rolling them as random chapters. My Ultra would probably have had some Eradicators to knock out the Wagon and then bolt rifle everything.


So you let a Wagon advance 12, likely advance into your face turn 1 (assuming he went first) and you ignored it and instead focused on the Foot sloggin boyz who moved and advanced 6-11' max. Again, that is 60 foot sloggin boyz, 20 of which were borderline USELESS! 20 shoota boyz average 1 dead Marine a turn...that is it...1, even in Dakka range its only 1.5 dead.

If you struggled to kill 40 Boyz to the point where he was able to destroy your army turn 2 then he was either the luckiest SOB in the world or you made a lot of tactical errors. What was your list in detail? Because honestly his is garbage so I don't know how you weren't able to take this list out relatively fast.


It’s a game between close friends. He took what he had ready on the day and I wanted to try
out some of the other chapters rules as well as use some new models I d painted. This was not a tournament game by any stretch of the imagination.

I went first. The Battle Wagon was about 12 to 15 away from a trench line I was at. Had no AT apart from some combi melta. If it was my Sisters I would have had multi to do something about the wagon. I am not super worried about the vehicles TBH.

The army was:

Blood Angel detachment

Captain in Terminator armour with chainfist and combi melta

5 relic terminators with two plasma blasters. Three powers fists and two chain fists. (These and the captain went on a rampage during the game)

Chaplain with the relic for 3 damage.

Two ten man tactical squads. Sergeants with fists.

A ten man vanguard squad on foot with power axes and serg with a fist

Crimson fist detachment

Captain in terminator armour with a combi melta and a thunder hammer. Warlord trait to get back up on a 4 plus.

Two ten man tactical squads. Sergeants with thunder hammers.

Ten Sternguard with combi flamers

Ten Vanguard with jump packs. Serg with a hammer.

It was a fun game and I enjoyed getting to use the stuff I recently painted. But I just don’t see my Sisters doing well against them. Sure, the melta would be nice.

This message was edited 7 times. Last update was at 2021/10/16 00:04:11



Starting Sons of Horus Legion

Starting Daughters of Khaine

2000pts Sisters of Silence

4000pts Fists Legion
Sylvaneth A forest
III Legion 5000pts
XIII Legion 9000pts
Hive Fleet Khadrim 5000pts
Kabal of the Torn Lotus .4000pts
Coalition of neo Sacea 5000pts



 
   
Made in us
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain






A Protoss colony world

Orks can move surprisingly fast at times. Trukkboyz can jump out of a vehicle after it moves, and Nobz can be Trukkboyz, so you gotta be ready for that trick because they get up in your grill fast. Plus if they just called WAAAGH! they can advance + charge. There's also a way to get a Deffkilla Wartrike to move a total of like 30" in a single turn (counting charge moves), so...yeah. The key to beating them is to cover the board and have counter-punch units available. For Sisters, this is your Sacresants, Celestine, potentially Repentia (who are great vs. Nobz), and Arco-Flagellants. Hell, even Morvenn Vahl can put in serious work thanks to her sweep profile on her spear. Also, take Heavy Flamers in your Retributor squads alongside Multimeltas; this provides a nice bit of extra damage if your opponent charges (save a CP for Overwatch).

I played a game about 2 weeks ago vs. one of my regular opponents (who is a pretty good player in general), and he was running Orks. I ran this Sisters list:
Spoiler:
Battalion: Order of the Argent Shroud
Morvenn Vahl (Warlord)
Celestine and Geminae Superia
5 Battle Sisters: Multi-melta
5 Battle Sisters: Multi-melta
5 Battle Sisters: Multi-melta
5 Battle Sisters: Multi-melta
10 Celestian Sacresants: 9x Halberd, Spear
Preacher
2 Death Cult Assassins (No Force Org.)
9 Arco-Flagellants (No Force Org.)
Dogmata: Litanies of Faith, Hymn: Catechism of Repugnance
5 Dominions: 4x AC Storm Bolter
5 Dominions: 4x AC Storm Bolter
5 Zephyrim: Pennant
5 Retributors: 2x Multi-melta, 2x Ministorum Heavy Flamer, 2x Armorium Cherub
5 Retributors: 2x Multi-melta, 2x Ministorum Heavy Flamer, 2x Armorium Cherub
5 Retributors: 4x Heavy Bolter, Armorium Cherub
Sororitas Rhino
Sororitas Rhino
Sororitas Rhino

My opponent deployed really aggressively and I won the roll off to go first, and that probably won me the game as much as anything I did. I was able to pop both of his transports on my first turn as well as forcing him to come to me to get me off of the midfield objective, putting him in range of more of my guns. The key is to have units ready to counterpunch the Orks, hopefully flipping an objective or two as the game goes on (my Arcos did this pretty well for me). You have to expect that at least some of them will get to you, and how you respond will massively affect the outcome. Orks are not a terribly bad matchup for Sisters overall.

My armies (re-counted and updated on 11/1/23, including modeled wargear options):
Dark Angels: ~15000 Astra Militarum: ~1200 | Adeptus Custodes: ~1900 | Imperial Knights: ~2000 | Sisters of Battle: ~3500 | Leagues of Votann: ~1200 | Tyranids: ~2600 | Stormcast Eternals: ~5000
Check out my P&M Blogs: ZergSmasher's P&M Blog | Imperial Knights blog | Board Games blog | Total models painted in 2023: 40 | Total models painted in 2024: 7 | Current main painting project: Dark Angels
 Mr_Rose wrote:
Who doesn’t love crazy mutant squawk-puppies? Eh? Nobody, that’s who.
 
   
Made in it
Waaagh! Ork Warboss




Italy

Any optimized TAC lists should do it to be honest. Adepta Sororitas are not inferior to orks and can kill them quite easily.

Meltas for the vehicles, bolters/heavy bolters/flamers for the infantry.

Arcos and repentias should wipe the any ork they charge.

If you have trouble killing 60 boyz, 10 gretchins and 10 nobz at 2000 points using Adepta Sororitas you need to strongly reconsider your list.

Orks list seems average, definitely manageable. I'd like to know more about the looted vehicle though, since it doesn't exist anymore. I also see only one HQ and 3 (4 if the looted vehicle is actually a count as for a gunwagon) Heavy Supports, the list seems illegal.

 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





England: Newcastle

 ZergSmasher wrote:
Orks can move surprisingly fast at times. Trukkboyz can jump out of a vehicle after it moves, and Nobz can be Trukkboyz, so you gotta be ready for that trick because they get up in your grill fast. Plus if they just called WAAAGH! they can advance + charge. There's also a way to get a Deffkilla Wartrike to move a total of like 30" in a single turn (counting charge moves), so...yeah. The key to beating them is to cover the board and have counter-punch units available. For Sisters, this is your Sacresants, Celestine, potentially Repentia (who are great vs. Nobz), and Arco-Flagellants. Hell, even Morvenn Vahl can put in serious work thanks to her sweep profile on her spear. Also, take Heavy Flamers in your Retributor squads alongside Multimeltas; this provides a nice bit of extra damage if your opponent charges (save a CP for Overwatch).

I played a game about 2 weeks ago vs. one of my regular opponents (who is a pretty good player in general), and he was running Orks. I ran this Sisters list:
Spoiler:
Battalion: Order of the Argent Shroud
Morvenn Vahl (Warlord)
Celestine and Geminae Superia
5 Battle Sisters: Multi-melta
5 Battle Sisters: Multi-melta
5 Battle Sisters: Multi-melta
5 Battle Sisters: Multi-melta
10 Celestian Sacresants: 9x Halberd, Spear
Preacher
2 Death Cult Assassins (No Force Org.)
9 Arco-Flagellants (No Force Org.)
Dogmata: Litanies of Faith, Hymn: Catechism of Repugnance
5 Dominions: 4x AC Storm Bolter
5 Dominions: 4x AC Storm Bolter
5 Zephyrim: Pennant
5 Retributors: 2x Multi-melta, 2x Ministorum Heavy Flamer, 2x Armorium Cherub
5 Retributors: 2x Multi-melta, 2x Ministorum Heavy Flamer, 2x Armorium Cherub
5 Retributors: 4x Heavy Bolter, Armorium Cherub
Sororitas Rhino
Sororitas Rhino
Sororitas Rhino

My opponent deployed really aggressively and I won the roll off to go first, and that probably won me the game as much as anything I did. I was able to pop both of his transports on my first turn as well as forcing him to come to me to get me off of the midfield objective, putting him in range of more of my guns. The key is to have units ready to counterpunch the Orks, hopefully flipping an objective or two as the game goes on (my Arcos did this pretty well for me). You have to expect that at least some of them will get to you, and how you respond will massively affect the outcome. Orks are not a terribly bad matchup for Sisters overall.


Hmmm.

The armies painted as OoML so I can’t really use the Argent Shroud for move and fire Heavy Weapons.

I am 50/50 on of “Vaal” will be in. The setting is meant to be small so a High Lord shouldn’t really be rocking up. If there was Canoness on Paragon Warsuit maybe. Towards the end I could see all the special characters being brought out. Like he won’t be using Ghaz out the gate.

I get it. Troops are a tax and so it makes sense to take minimum size units which Sisters can do; in this case being the baby carrier for a multi melta. Which gives you enough tokens to cover the board without spending loads. Plus presenting lots of targets to the foe. I just feel it runs counter to the spirit of the army; if not the game. You should have a block of infantry making up your battleline. Especially Sisters of Battle. It shouldn’t be a commando raid force with small fire teams. They’re not Raven Guard.

The rest is pretty much normal. Currently painting up a third rhino, Sacresancts and I can put together Dominion units although I probably need to build more Storm bolters. I am aware of the 6MW thing you can do.

The list is probably going to be alone the lines of
Spoiler:

Canoness kitted for melee
Palatine
Imagifier for buffs
Four ten squads of sisters with heavy, special and combo weapons
Repentia in a rhino with superior
Ten Sacrosanct (currently painting up)
1 Paragon Warsuit squad
5 dominion with SB
10 ret with multi in rhino
10 ret with flamers in rhino
Outflanking Penitent engines


That’s probably the go to list. There’s a few variants I want to try out during the campaign as I add more stuff. Eventually I want to mechanise entirely. Maybe get the core infantry up to a hundred bodies. I already have the Nundam wing which I think would be hilariously suicidal against the Orks. Need to get that Triumph painted as well. I have the models to work the above MSU Dakka list in so I can give that a go at some point. Usually for small Sisters squads the rationalisation is that “they’ve taken losses before the battle” so aren’t full strength squads.



Starting Sons of Horus Legion

Starting Daughters of Khaine

2000pts Sisters of Silence

4000pts Fists Legion
Sylvaneth A forest
III Legion 5000pts
XIII Legion 9000pts
Hive Fleet Khadrim 5000pts
Kabal of the Torn Lotus .4000pts
Coalition of neo Sacea 5000pts



 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Totalwar1402 wrote:


It’s a game between close friends. He took what he had ready on the day and I wanted to try
out some of the other chapters rules as well as use some new models I d painted. This was not a tournament game by any stretch of the imagination.

I went first. The Battle Wagon was about 12 to 15 away from a trench line I was at. Had no AT apart from some combi melta. If it was my Sisters I would have had multi to do something about the wagon. I am not super worried about the vehicles TBH.

The army was:
Blood Angel detachment
Captain in Terminator armour with chainfist and combi melta
5 relic terminators with two plasma blasters. Three powers fists and two chain fists. (These and the captain went on a rampage during the game)
Chaplain with the relic for 3 damage.
Two ten man tactical squads. Sergeants with fists.
A ten man vanguard squad on foot with power axes and serg with a fist
Crimson fist detachment
Captain in terminator armour with a combi melta and a thunder hammer. Warlord trait to get back up on a 4 plus.
Two ten man tactical squads. Sergeants with thunder hammers.
Ten Sternguard with combi flamers
Ten Vanguard with jump packs. Serg with a hammer.
It was a fun game and I enjoyed getting to use the stuff I recently painted. But I just don’t see my Sisters doing well against them. Sure, the melta would be nice.


Ok, between this thread and your comments in the Ork tactics thread you come off as someone who is scared beyond reckoning of Ork boyz and insist on them being OP. The irony is that atm I wouldn't consider the Ork army to be even top Tier, more above average at best and with that being said....none of the tournament lists are taking boyz because of how bad they are. In the last 6-7 GT listed on 40kstats, orkz only had 2 lists place, and neither had any boyz at all. Your list looks ok to deal with the ork list you mentioned, the only problem I see you having is that you really don't have the ability to deal with the Wagon before it gets into your lines and at that point the nobz and warboss can hop out at will and the only good thing I can say about regular nobz atm is that they are good in CC. You should have been able to wipe out the ork boyz with little effort. You mentioned he popped the grot shield strat against you, I have a feeling he didn't do it correctly. The verbage is something like
"Use this stratagem at the start of your opponent's shooting phase. Select one Orks Infantry unit from your army, then select one Gretchin Infantry unit from your army that is within 6" of that unit. Until the end of the phase, enemy models cannot select the selected Orks Infantry unit as a target if the selected Gretchin Infantry unit is a closer visible target."
So he would have had to tell you which unit was protected before you shot and then you could have killed the grots first and only if the grots were the closest enemy unit to your shooting unit. which means the grots would have also had to advance in the open and they are T3 with 7+ save...not exactly hard to get rid of. 25ish bolter shots kill the grots entirely, 25 shots, 16-17 hits, 11 wounds, no saves so 10-11 dead grots. After that, 10 combi flamers do 35 S4 hits which average out to about about 10 dead orkz by themselves. The 10 Bolter parts do 10 hits (-1 for combi) and 3.33 more wounds for about 3 more dead Orkz, so that Sternguard squad should have killed 13 orkz just on average. The Vanguard Vets with Jump packs if they got to swing first should have wiped out the Ork boyz unit entirely, and since they have Jump Packs they should have gotten the charge off had you not Deep struck them.

I think you just got unlucky, some rules were used incorrectly and you got scared by the prospect of T5 orkz. They aren't competitive, the entire Ork community is basically in agreement on that, the Dakka community majority agrees as well. Tournament players agree lol. Trust me, they aren't scary.

 Tomsug wrote:
Semper krumps under the radar

 
   
Made in de
Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk






 Totalwar1402 wrote:
I don’t really see how that could happen. Open war cards, 9 inch radius. He’s over that in one turn and next turn he’s in my deployment zone.

I'd like to jump in on this. I play the open war deck quite a lot these days, and it's worth noting that there are a bunch deployment cars in there where the no-mans land is just 18". These are extremely favorable to slow moving melee armies like orks as they are somewhat balanced around having to cross 24". And despite what some people claim, this doesn't have a thing to do with table size, the old deck at the same issue with old table sizes.
In such deployments your only real chance is to stay back in your deployment zone to actually have that one or two turns of shooting before they connect. And yes, objectives are an issue, but since you had deep strikers and fast units, you can use those to get in your opponent's backfield and take points there. Orks can't just turn around their charge train once it has moved across half the board, but if you try to face them head on, you'll get run over.

Once you bought yourself that one turn of shooting, you can play into boyz' biggest weakness - morale. If you kill 4 boyz, there is already a 50% chance for a bunch of boyz to just run off, if you cause 7 or more casualties, they are guaranteed to fail morale. And since he is running mobs of 20, you'll get double attrition casualties if no mob at above half strength is nearby. So spread the love around and you'll find your weapons suddenly becoming super effective.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Blackie wrote:
Orks list seems average, definitely manageable. I'd like to know more about the looted vehicle though, since it doesn't exist anymore. I also see only one HQ and 3 (4 if the looted vehicle is actually a count as for a gunwagon) Heavy Supports, the list seems illegal.


That looted vehicle sounds like a killtank.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/10/17 15:28:36


7 Ork facts people always get wrong:
Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other.
A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot.
Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests.
Orks do not think that purple makes them harder to see. They do think that camouflage does however, without knowing why.
Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor.
Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers.
Orks do not have the power of believe. 
   
Made in us
Death-Dealing Devastator





South Carolina, USA

I have been where you are and been afraid of the ork "horde" when really it was just a modest ork list.

Let me say up front that I have good news and I have bad news. The good news is that overcoming this challenge isn't really hard - you already have all the tools you needed to win. The bad news is that, in order to win with that list, you'll need to change how you play and you'll need to make more "game-y" and less "tacticool" decisions.

In essence, winning at WH40K involves accepting that you are NOT the commander of the forces on the table, but rather an omniscient observer who can make really strange decisions and be obeyed. You'll have to forget about using your vanguard vets to drop out of the sky and go on a noble, bold charge against the warboss from behind. They're better off dropping out of the sky into a small outcropping of rock, and sneaking up on an objective, which they will then boldly guard from behind trees for the rest of the game. Your space marines/sisters of battle will need to prioritize the fast vehicles with their heavy weapons (which makes sense) and put most of the rest of their firepower into trying to do just the right amount of damage to the ork hordes. No need to waste rounds.

Oh, and you'll need to make decisions based on statistics, not on what looks smart or seems tactical. A lot of times it feels like running down the clock at the end of a game of American Football - kinda cheap, kinda cheesy, but it's totally legal and all the winners do it, so if you want to be a winner, you better figure out how.

Like I said - good news/bad news. You can play in a way that is more likely to win, but if you're like me, it feels less like a battle and more like a homework problem. Or you can play in a way that "feels" more like the world of WH40K and lose a lot.

Have fun!

Squats 2020! 
   
Made in es
Inquisitorial Keeper of the Xenobanks






your mind

Dadx6 telling it like it is… strong 151st post. Exalted.

   
Made in gb
Mekboy Hammerin' Somethin'





United Kingdom

I agree with what others have said. Pull back slightly to potentially give yourself an extra round of shooting, focus down the vehicles, and chip the boys and nobs to let morale do the rest.

If the meganobs are on foot, then try to kite them and stay out of charge range and they won't be able to do anything really. They will probably end up sat on an objective in the middle of the board, but you may be able to just ignore them and try to seize the others instead.

The biggest threats are probably the kill tank (assuming it is one and not something else) and the squigbuggy, which are both obnoxious for their points compared to the alternatives. These likely need to die first.

And lastly, no warboss = no Waaagh. If you get the opportunity to pick the boss off then you take away a decent force multiplier from the Ork player. Being able to advance and charge is a pretty big deal and taking it away from a infantry list hurts.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





The one thing I would add is the need to screen tactically. Use terrain and your deployment to force orks (or really, any similar melee threat) to waste their charge on either something disposable like a tac squad, or purpose-built like a storm shield termie squad, without the potential for them to pile-in/consolidate into more valuable units.

I know the temptation is to view your sooper dooper Space Marines as dudes who should just be able to go face to face with Boyz and always come out on top, but you still have to put some thought into it. ESPECIALLY if you're running melee Marines. A bunch of nobz or meganobz may be "suboptimal" in the broader sense, but nobz with klaws/saws will do a hell of a lot of damage to anything they can make a charge against. Especially Marines.

Your job is to blunt his charges with less-valuable targets, and ensure your own powerful melee units are undamaged and in position to execute charges on YOUR turn. A shooty marine army gets to just stand back and laugh and let their codex win the game for them. Melee takes some actual thought.
   
 
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