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Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User




What's the point of a Speedwaagh giving advance and fire assault weapons when THERE ARE NO ASSAULT WEAPONS ON VEHICLES ANY MORE???? That is just sooooo dumb!!!
What's the point of Evil Sunz warlord trait (which is gonna be the trike you paid good money and time to paint) advance and charge buff for a core unit, when the only core unit that can keep up is warbikers, and if they advance, they CAN'T FIRE THEIR GUNS??? Sooooo dumb!!!!
What's the point of an assault and charge army like Orks having a new weapon rule that means you can't advance and shoot?????
SOLUTION - Evil Sunz warlord trait allows advance charge and use dakka weapons. Speedwaaagh let's you advance and use dakka weapons.
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Not dumb.

Bikes that move 20" and fire all their shots ( and an extra AP and 2 additional shots ) and then get a rerollable charge would be stupid good.

Not sure why you'd have to keep up with the trike since it's table wide anyway? EDIT: nevermind - for units you want to charge with.







This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 2021/10/18 00:01:28


 
   
Made in us
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle





In My Lab

 Daedalus81 wrote:
Not dumb.

Bikes that move 20" and fire all their shots ( and an extra AP and 2 additional shots ) and then get a rerollable charge would be stupid good.



I mean…

A war biker would do less than one wound to a MEQ with shooting, at 12 shots. With AP-1, it rockets up to… three war bikers kill two MEQ. Unless they’re in cover. Or inflict a hit penalty.

Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





 JNAProductions wrote:
I mean…

A war biker would do less than one wound to a MEQ with shooting, at 12 shots. With AP-1, it rockets up to… three war bikers kill two MEQ. Unless they’re in cover. Or inflict a hit penalty.


Not everything is MEQ.

9 * 12 * .333 * .666 * .333 = 8 wounds to MEQ in cover ( 12 not in cover ), but that can be a screen which gets shot off and on a 24" no man's land that's a small charge to what's behind.

And then you'd make Ghaz better than BA since he'd make the whole army shoot and charge after advancing, but BA would otherwise fallback and charge or shoot. All with pretty durable models that would make a mess of your DZ if they went first.

I am speaking from experience, because I took charges from 18 Ghaz Goff Warbikes turn 1.


This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/10/18 00:11:48


 
   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba






Dorkanaut wrote:
What's the point of a Speedwaagh giving advance and fire assault weapons when THERE ARE NO ASSAULT WEAPONS ON VEHICLES ANY MORE???? That is just sooooo dumb!!!
What's the point of Evil Sunz warlord trait (which is gonna be the trike you paid good money and time to paint) advance and charge buff for a core unit, when the only core unit that can keep up is warbikers, and if they advance, they CAN'T FIRE THEIR GUNS??? Sooooo dumb!!!!
What's the point of an assault and charge army like Orks having a new weapon rule that means you can't advance and shoot?????
SOLUTION - Evil Sunz warlord trait allows advance charge and use dakka weapons. Speedwaaagh let's you advance and use dakka weapons.


(pssst: Stormboyz.

I agree with you, dakka type is asinine and should be assault with a bonus rule, but, stormboys are who you bring with the trike to advance and charge.)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Daedalus81 wrote:
 JNAProductions wrote:
I mean…

A war biker would do less than one wound to a MEQ with shooting, at 12 shots. With AP-1, it rockets up to… three war bikers kill two MEQ. Unless they’re in cover. Or inflict a hit penalty.


Not everything is MEQ.



I checked, this is actually a lie, everything is at LEAST MEQ now, the last time a GEQ got used in a tournament setting was index-era.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, there are technically plenty of Assault weapons still in the ork codex.

....its just that almost all of them autohit.

Because GW recruits solely from the 'miraculous survivor of a railroad spike through the brain accident' segment of the rules-writer population.

I believe the weapon list that benefits from that HALF of the Evil Sunz trait is:

-Kustom Mega Blasta
-Squig Launcha, hilariously
-Rivet Kannon on the KBB
-Kustom Shokka Rifle on the dragsta maybe?
-Melta half of the trike's gun

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/10/18 00:19:26


"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"

"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"

"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"

"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"  
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





It's important to note that the Speed Waaagh is kind of a 3 parter.

- Advance and shoot without penalty
- Dakka +1
- AP +1

So, yes, few weapons will advance and shoot in the Ork army, but that isn't really the goal of the Waaagh. Best conceivable use case is running Deffdreads with KMBs and klaws to get them closer to combat.


This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/10/18 00:46:38


 
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

I think whoever wrote the Dakka weapons was so preoccupied with reducing the amount of near-purposeless dice rolls in the game that they forgot the Orks are meant to be mobile, which is why so much of their stuff was Assault.

How else do you explain changing the Rokkit to a Heavy weapon?

Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in it
Waaagh! Ork Warboss




Italy

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I think whoever wrote the Dakka weapons was so preoccupied with reducing the amount of near-purposeless dice rolls in the game that they forgot the Orks are meant to be mobile, which is why so much of their stuff was Assault.

How else do you explain changing the Rokkit to a Heavy weapon?


To nerf tankbustas as a deepstriking unit.

 
   
Made in ca
Gargantuan Gargant






Yeah, pretty much they added the Dakka rule for change's sake rather than any issue with Orks abusing assault weaponry or a way to address Ork shooting. Like others have said, Dakka should have had the caveat of being able to advance and shoot like an assault weapon on top of what it does now, and allow ES to do so without a -1 to hit penalty. Unfortunately, they just gave us a crappier version of rapid fire because....reasons? GW rules writing is shoddy at the best of times, but for a lot of xenos armies (particularly Orks) GW have a pretty bad track record so I'm not surprised they gave a nonsensical change like this.
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




They should've made Dakka a suffix in addition to original weapon types. Then you could have weapons that are Assault Dakka 3/2, Pistol Dakka 2/1 or Heavy Dakka 4/3, etc.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/10/18 17:15:08


 
   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba






 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I think whoever wrote the Dakka weapons was so preoccupied with reducing the amount of near-purposeless dice rolls in the game that they forgot the Orks are meant to be mobile, which is why so much of their stuff was Assault.

How else do you explain changing the Rokkit to a Heavy weapon?


I think the goal honestly was to make orks less mobile - to try and make them the slow, lumbering army and just hope that the high base mv values of their vehicles and bikers would make up for that.

"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"

"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"

"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"

"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"  
   
Made in us
Stabbin' Skarboy





I think the goal of the 9th dex was to remove all the special rules and synergy from orks. All our army wide rules got nerfed. All our buff characters got huge nerfs. All our strats were removed or nerfed.
I think they tried to make orks a low amounts of buffs army, but even from 5th orks had tons so the army just kinda broke.

"Us Blood Axes hav lernt' a lot from da humies. How best ta kill 'em, fer example."
— Korporal Snagbrat of the Dreadblade Kommandos 
   
Made in gb
Mekboy Hammerin' Somethin'





United Kingdom

 Some_Call_Me_Tim wrote:
I think the goal of the 9th dex was to remove all the special rules and synergy from orks. All our army wide rules got nerfed. All our buff characters got huge nerfs. All our strats were removed or nerfed.
I think they tried to make orks a low amounts of buffs army, but even from 5th orks had tons so the army just kinda broke.


I feel like the ork book was put together by a group of people that weren't allowed to see or speak to one another until the night before the book went to print. There's a fair amount of stuff in the book that is actually pretty good in a vacuum, like all of the +1 to hit buffs, but end up being completely redundant and unusable because of everything else around it.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




I agree Dakka was an unnecessary change… should have just been assault or rapid fire weapons if they wanted to boost certain ork weapons then just boost them without changing profiles into something no one else uses.

It’s like they just reinvented crappy salvo weapons just to remove them again.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/10/19 10:41:27


 
   
 
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