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Made in us
Storm Trooper with Maglight






New Hampshire

Just for the sake of discussion, how could each Regiment be done to make them all equally viable, but not stupid OP. I'd prefer ways that fit with their lore and the current ones did ok at this but some were overshadowed by others. We can add Krieg into the codex ones as there is a decent chance they will be added in

example; before overwatch became a strat I played Mordians (pretorians models from Victorian Miniatures) and I felt their doctrine was useful enough. Would they be more viable if they got free unlimited (not limited to once per turn) overwatch in addition to their current rules (+1 Ld and overwatch on 5+ while in base-to-base/within 3" for vehicles).

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/10/26 19:37:26


"Elysians: For when you absolutely, positively, must have 100% casualties" 
   
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Gathering the Informations.

There isn't one without restricting the types of units available to them.
   
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 Salted Diamond wrote:
Just for the sake of discussion, how could each Regiment be done to make them all equally viable, but not stupid OP.

Well, those are kind of two distinct goals. Technically, you could make them all equally viable by removing them all from the game or something. And reasonable people could argue that the current approach to chapter tactic equivalents in general is kind of inherently flawed. (It sort of stinks if you want to play something like a biker army if GW didn't decide that your particular faction's bikes were as good as another factions bikes, for instance. Plus GW isn't always great about making your faction's rules match their fluff.) We'd probably be better off making subfaction bonuses more of a general "army style" rule rather than tying them to actual factions and maybe moving some or all of them to non-tournament only play only...

But assuming we just want some updated regimental doctrines without trying to rework subfaction rules from the ground up...

* Mordians: I think free overwatch that hits on a 5+ when near vehicles is a reasonable bonus that makes the army play differently from other factions. Good fit. Probably not OP.

* Catachans: Honestly, what they have now is fairly powerful and pretty good at making them play differently from other factions. If you want to do melee guard, you're probably using these rules already. I wouldn't mind swapping out their number of shots rule for something that conveys their stealth instead. Not sure the standard "count as being in light cover when far enough away" thing would fit them super well though.

* Cadians: Feels like we could lean into their updated lore a bit. Give them sort of a Crimson Fists vibe. Maybe give them +1 to hit when they're under starting strength? And let their tanks count as being one step higher on their damage chart? Lean into the idea that you may kill them but they'll make you work for it.

* Tallarn: I miss these guys being the ambush boys. Maybe +1 to hit on turns that they arrive from reserves or disembark from vehicles? Probably just put that on top of their pseudo Battle Focus thing. Maybe give them a strat to re-embark after shooting?

* Vostroyans: Eh. Not sure. I've never really vibed with these guys. Maybe swap out their bonus range for bolter discipline with lasguns? So count as being in rapid fire if they hold still. Maybe give them a surprisingly good (5+?) FNP while they're near a board edge representing the waves of fresh troops being shoved forward to replace losses?

I'm sure I'm forgetting someone.
   
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 Kanluwen wrote:
There isn't one without restricting the types of units available to them.


That's a funny joke. Have any more?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Wyldhunt wrote:
* Mordians: I think free overwatch that hits on a 5+ when near vehicles is a reasonable bonus that makes the army play differently from other factions. Good fit. Probably not OP.


Something like this could be interesting. I think free overwatch for all Mordian units, and then in addition Mordian Infantry can Hold Steady or Set to Defend.

Wyldhunt wrote:
* Catachans: Honestly, what they have now is fairly powerful and pretty good at making them play differently from other factions. If you want to do melee guard, you're probably using these rules already. I wouldn't mind swapping out their number of shots rule for something that conveys their stealth instead. Not sure the standard "count as being in light cover when far enough away" thing would fit them super well though.


I agree with this, Catachans just need a better unique stratagem and order.

Wyldhunt wrote:
* Cadians: Feels like we could lean into their updated lore a bit. Give them sort of a Crimson Fists vibe. Maybe give them +1 to hit when they're under starting strength? And let their tanks count as being one step higher on their damage chart? Lean into the idea that you may kill them but they'll make you work for it.


Cadians are easy, just change it to RR1 on shooting attacks. No standing still required. Or make it +1 to Hit if stationary like Dark Angels.

Wyldhunt wrote:
* Tallarn: I miss these guys being the ambush boys. Maybe +1 to hit on turns that they arrive from reserves or disembark from vehicles? Probably just put that on top of their pseudo Battle Focus thing. Maybe give them a strat to re-embark after shooting?


I would keep their current ability, but add +1 to hit when entering from reserves. Transports should be Armageddon's thing.

Wyldhunt wrote:
* Vostroyans: Eh. Not sure. I've never really vibed with these guys. Maybe swap out their bonus range for bolter discipline with lasguns? So count as being in rapid fire if they hold still. Maybe give them a surprisingly good (5+?) FNP while they're near a board edge representing the waves of fresh troops being shoved forward to replace losses?


I think you're mistaking them for Valhallans. I'd extend Vostroyan's current +6 inch range to assault weapons as well. Then give them additional hit's on 6's when shooting lasguns/laspistols.

Wyldhunt wrote:
I'm sure I'm forgetting someone.


Vahallans and Krieg. Vahallans should lean into human waves. Keep their current, but add something like Commissars and Lord Commissars in a Vahallan detachment gain the Vahallan keyword and Voice of Command. Similar to the new Cadian stratagem that gives Psykers the Cadian keyword and the ability to gain Voice of Command.

Krieg should just ignore morale. Like Graia Each time a Combat Attrition test is taken for a unit with this dogma, it is automatically passed. then I'd remove the character/vehicle part because it's useless. Instead make lasguns/laspistol gain +1 AP at half range. Because DKOK lasguns typically are higher power.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/10/27 08:11:32


 
   
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Gathering the Informations.

If you want a joke, you made a good one by trying to use lore there.
Krieg lasguns might be eligible for +1AP...but if you're going to use the lore to justify that? You're also going to set them as Heavy or Assault. They're locked to single-fire because of the higher charge consumption.
Their Laspistols don't have anything like that.

Sanctioned Psykers, as you mentioned, are able to gain Voice of Command...for a single turn by casting a Psychic action. Commissars or Lord Commissars getting VoC should be tied to them executing a character with VoC if you wanted true parity.


Anyways:
Regimental problems aren't anything to fix with just orders or the like. There's a fundamental rot at the core of the Guard book, and it's the stagnation of the Infantry Squad as a concept.

Infantry Squad is not and should not be a catch-all term for every single Guardsman. This isn't the Doctrines book where you could represent heavily armored troopers like Vostroyans with the Carapace Armor doctrine or where Catachans literally lost a point of armor as part of their Jungle Fighters doctrine because they shed part of their flak armor for a flak vest instead or where Tallarn, as part of their Light Infantry doctrine, could forego a Heavy Weapons Team to add a Sniper Rifle to the squad.

We're a 3.5E setup that lost its actual rules long ago and have been stuck limping forward since, with each iteration missing the mark because people on the design team keep getting hung up on the weird outlier Regiments being able to be represented in the same manner as the "standard" regiments.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/10/27 16:00:56


 
   
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My intention was to have a friendly discussion about how we can make regiments viable (via doctriens, strats, orders). Let's not complain about their issues or how old versions were better.

@ Kanluwen; if you feel the old system was better, how would you re-introduce it back into the current edition? Unique strats that are in effect for the whole game? (honest question, not troll)

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/10/27 17:07:31


"Elysians: For when you absolutely, positively, must have 100% casualties" 
   
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Gathering the Informations.

Serious question:

What do you think is accomplished by simply "fixing doctrines"?

If you want to have a discussion about how to "fix" things, you need to be able to accept that some things might just not be fixable without addressing the core problems of the book...which all circle back to the book is fundamentally unsound to begin with.

@ Kanluwen; if you feel the old system was better, how would you re-introduce it back into the current edition? Unique strats that are in effect for the whole game? (honest question, not troll)

You added this while I was in a Post Reply mode so I could type big screen.

The old system was better but the problem is that it created a realistic set of choices that actually needed to be modeled and properly represented.
Carapace Armor? That created a whole new unit.
Jungle Fighters? Whole new unit.
Light Infantry? Whole new unit.
Warrior Weapons? Whole new unit.
Cameloline, Chem-Inhalers? Again: whole new unit.

What needs to be addressed is that dynamic, for a start.
Light+Jungle Fighter Infantry Squads had real restrictions. No lascannons for Jungle Fighters, HWTs could be ditched for an extra special in the form of a Sniper Rifle for Light Infantry Squads or a Heavy Flamer for Jungle Fighters. Warrior Weapons removed your lasguns and let you take pistols+CCWs or twin CCWs.

I've stressed this before but there should be not one but three choices of Infantry Squads.
-Light/Jungle Fighters with a 6+ save and bonuses to being in cover. Couple this with camo cloaks, lighter gear, etc.
-"Line Infantry"--your DKoK/Steel Legion look. They have helmets, there's webbing and some armor to give them a 5+ but it's not as extensive as the last one which would be...
-"Heavy Infantry"--your Cadian/Vostroyan look. Helmets, chestplates, shoulderplates. They look the part of an armored soldier.

"Veteran" can just be a Stratagem applied to an infantry squad of your choosing, with each Regiment getting some kind of potential modifier to the stratagem cost if it's tied to a hallmark thing. Catachans, Tallarn, Tanith might get a modifier to the Veteran stratagem where they can apply it to 2 squads for the price of 1 if those squads are Light Infantry rather than Line or Heavy Infantry.

Moving on from that, we really need to reevaluate what is "heavy" vs "special" in this book. Missile Launchers should be something different to Rocket Launchers, Mortars shouldn't be in basic infantry squads, etc.




But the long and short of it is that there need to be unique and different infantry squads to start with before even considering any other fixes. Any regimental modifiers can start from those.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/10/27 17:24:28


 
   
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I agree that bringing back the regiment restrictions would be a good way, but of course GW won't be doing that, so here's my attempt at changing them up.

Mordian: Free Overwatch if within 6" of a vehicle. Said Overwatch hits on 5+ if every member of the unit is in base-to-base with at least 2 other members.

Catachan: +1A and S. At the moment the +1S is near-useless on a 1A model.

Steel Legion: +1 to hit on the turn in which a unit disembarks from a transport. In addition units may disembark after a transport has moved (but not advanced), but may not move any further or charge in that turn.

Cadian: Units can re-roll 1's to hit if they remained stationary. Order range is increased.

Tallarn: Units can advance and shoot rapid-fire at -1BS, and assault at no penalty.

Vallahan: Infantry units automatically pass morale while within 6" of an officer. additional rule for vehicles but I don't know enough about Valhallan fluff

Vostroyan: Again, don't know enough at this moment
   
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@ Kanluwen: what if regiments had strats tied to them to allow them to take 1 of 3 options? Looking at how they did the Whiteshields strat for cadians but on an army wide basis? Would you accept something of that sort to give the "Light/Line/Heavy"? Would allow players to choose if they wanted it or not.


FYI Mordian is not tied to being close to a vehicle, it's vehicles get the benefit if within 3" of another vehicle

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/10/27 18:01:12


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Gathering the Informations.

One of the reasons why I would tie stratagems to specific Infantry types is that it prevents the gamey nonsense we see now where Catachan lists tend to be armored vehicle heavy. Catachans getting the ability to, say, have multiple Veteran Light Infantry Squads picked in one go as part of their "Regimental Trait" alongside of a cover bonus and a +1S to their Infantry while Cadians might get to apply the bonus to a Line and Heavy Infantry Squad at the same time or multiples of each in one go plus another bonus, etc etc.

We would never see them straight-out disallowing an Infantry Squad type. But we could see incentives for the "iconic" units. Give each of the different Infantry Squad types a different kind of loadout to encourage overall usage and the Guard suddenly becomes a very different army.
   
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What about Tempestus? They need a lot of help, starting with some additional units as they have no Fast Attack or Heavy Support options to speak of. They probably need a points drop or a stat buff, as other armies (both Sisters and AdMech come to mind) with the right doctrines/strategems, etc. can build units that have the same strength, but slightly longer range and equal or better AP to the hot-shot lasgun, while also being more resilient to return fire. They also definitely need their regimental doctrines and such to get a complete overhaul, as two of them are extremely similar in nature to the point that one is more or less obviously superior to the other, and they have a wierd thing going on where the strategem of regiment x and the warlord trait of regiment y is complementary to the doctrine of regiment z, whereas regiment x's warlord trait doesn't do anything for it at all and its doctrine actually disincentives you from building around the strategem.

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Gathering the Informations.

Tempestus aren't Regiment, so I don't really think they fit this discussion.

Also the biggest problem they have is related to the absolutely random nature of them adding specific regiments rather than having an overarching bit.
   
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 Valkyrie wrote:
Tallarn: Units can advance and shoot rapid-fire at -1BS, and assault at no penalty.

Order of the Argent Shroud (SoB) can fire any weapons at no penalty after advancing, including heavy weapons. So Tallarn could get that, too. Or we could go with your initial idea, but in addition, Tallarn can roll two dice for advancing and pick the highest.

+1 to hit when arriving from reserves, proposed earlier, is also a solid idea. If not a regimental doctrine, it can be a stratagem or order.


Re: Valhallans: They are known for being stoic, numerous, and often mercilessly sent into the meatgrinder with little preparation or equipment. We could do something based on the idea of there being fewer guns than soldiers, so soldiers without guns must pick up the guns of their fallen comrades. For example, this could translate as a 6+++ Feel No Pain for all infantry models except characters. A successful FNP means that a soldier died but that his gun was picked up by another.

.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/10/27 20:56:03


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Read my Drukhari short stories: Chronicles of Commorragh 
   
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Gathering the Informations.

No. None of that "tHeRe'S nOt EnOuGh GuNs!1!!" trash.

There's enough guns. The Imperium has more guns than manpower in some warzones.
   
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 Kanluwen wrote:
If you want a joke, you made a good one by trying to use lore there.
Krieg lasguns might be eligible for +1AP...but if you're going to use the lore to justify that? You're also going to set them as Heavy or Assault. They're locked to single-fire because of the higher charge consumption.


Having fired many semi-auto weapons I can tell you that just because something is locked to single-fire doesn't mean it's slow. It's not a musket.

Sanctioned Psykers, as you mentioned, are able to gain Voice of Command...for a single turn by casting a Psychic action. Commissars or Lord Commissars getting VoC should be tied to them executing a character with VoC if you wanted true parity.


Because that's a stratagem, not a faction ability. Cadians get their regiment rules in addition to that, so it's not going to be anywhere near as powerful..
   
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Gathering the Informations.

Jarms48 wrote:
 Kanluwen wrote:
If you want a joke, you made a good one by trying to use lore there.
Krieg lasguns might be eligible for +1AP...but if you're going to use the lore to justify that? You're also going to set them as Heavy or Assault. They're locked to single-fire because of the higher charge consumption.


Having fired many semi-auto weapons I can tell you that just because something is locked to single-fire doesn't mean it's slow. It's not a musket.

Single-shot, higher heat buildup, fewer shots from the higher consumption on the charge packs. There's all kinds of reasons to justify why they could be less shots or just not be Rapid Fire from the start.

And it adds a bit of fun in that for Krieg(and any other subfactions that might get a similar setup)? The other Orders(Take Aim notably) can be just as viable given there might be fewer shots being thrown downrange or the shift from <Insert Weapon Type Here> with X shots to Rapid Fire 2 might actually be a downgrade or at best a sidegrade where Take Aim would be a competitive choice.


Sanctioned Psykers, as you mentioned, are able to gain Voice of Command...for a single turn by casting a Psychic action. Commissars or Lord Commissars getting VoC should be tied to them executing a character with VoC if you wanted true parity.


Because that's a stratagem, not a faction ability. Cadians get their regiment rules in addition to that, so it's not going to be anywhere near as powerful..

And the post I replied to had you talking about Commissars getting VoC+Regiment.

The SP gains Regiment, period, but can't take a Warlord Trait nor do they gain the "Officer" keyword so they're effectively gated out of the new Relics that people might try to shove on them. They just gain a Psyker action that lets them, if successful, issue an Order.


All seriousness:
What would having Commissars/Lord Commissars with Voice of Command accomplish for Valhallans? It adds them to the list of whopping 2 units(Company Commanders+characters in HQ and Platoon Commanders) that can put out Orders to <Regiment> units. Oh boy!

I'd rather see an overhaul to Orders and the Officer structure before we just start shoveling Voice of Command onto every auxilia choice.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/10/27 23:16:29


 
   
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 Kanluwen wrote:

Single-shot, higher heat buildup, fewer shots from the higher consumption on the charge packs. There's all kinds of reasons to justify why they could be less shots or just not be Rapid Fire from the start.


You could use how FFG did it and it gains 'Gets Hot' like Plasma guns if you rapid fire it.


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 BaronIveagh wrote:

You could use how FFG did it and it gains 'Gets Hot' like Plasma guns if you rapid fire it.


I hope not. The potential to lose models just for a -1 AP lasgun is not worth it.
   
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Where they got chapter tactics wrong IMO (and actually a place where having separate supplements would be useful) is that they did no tweak the points for each unit per supplement - This would cause some issues with custom chapter tactics but they could either go, or be reigned in enough to not make OP combos ultra powerful without tweaking the unit cost in the codex. So vanguard vets would be slightly more expensive for blood angels and flesh tearers for example - or cheaper but other units become more expensive, whichever way you prefer.

This would obviously take a lot more work, but the same could and should be applied too AM.

Just because a Manticore is ultra efficient in one regiment, doesn't mean it should be point raised for every regiment.

This could then be used to steer down the path to lore builds as Kanluwen has alluded to. For example, Krieg don't really use chimeras so should pay a small tax to use them to indicate that they are only in specialised formations. A gorgon should be cheaper for them though (a slightly ridiculous example, but you get the point of it). For some regiments, certain units would be restricted and be unable to take, or be 0-1 at most.

This all would obviously take a ton of work to implement but it's really one of the only viable ways IMO to balance it so all regiments are useful.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/10/28 08:05:04


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Not for nothing but if that is true, Cadians should never be able to field anything requiring a FW, ala Baneblades. It's pretty standard in the fluff now that Cadia is basically a dying chapter, and all they have is a new White Shield program, in fact, the new cadian honour book goes out of the way to point out that almost no one wants to give them anything.. They don't have any of the stuff that Creed was able to pull. Now it's just basic infantry and some limited heavy armor support.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/10/28 14:56:59


 
   
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It doesn't have to be specific specific, it could be a cadian style regiment. It's also not unfeasible that some regiments were off cadia at the time and maybe fairly untouched... There's ways to justify it, but I was more thinking in the game balance sense anyway, when everything costs the same, and is available the same, it doesn't matter if you make sure there is parity for regimental doctrines, certain regiments will be deemed ultra efficient because it makes certain units ultra efficient.

Unit by unit, point cost should be tweaked based on the regiment it comes from - this can also be because of stratagems that are either specific to a regiment or standard but just have a good synergy to the regiment doctrine.

Again, this is just how to help balance things, to get macro balance, they need to make micro adjustments and they can be depending on numerous factors, sub faction abilities is a huge balance swing at times.

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Gathering the Informations.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Not for nothing but if that is true, Cadians should never be able to field anything requiring a FW, ala Baneblades. It's pretty standard in the fluff now that Cadia is basically a dying chapter, and all they have is a new White Shield program, in fact, the new cadian honour book goes out of the way to point out that almost no one wants to give them anything.. They don't have any of the stuff that Creed was able to pull. Now it's just basic infantry and some limited heavy armor support.

You might want to reread the previous two books...because yeah, that's the wrong takeaway.
   
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- cadians re-roll 1s by default (even if they moved), Take Aim! gives full re-rolls to hit (all units, not just infantry)
- catachans: S4 infantry, opponents get no benefits of cover. Tanks with dozer blades and infantry count difficult terrain as clear terrain
- ASL - while within 6" of a vehicle they ignore -1 to hit on heavy weapons moving and -1 to hit on assault weapons when advancing, army ignores AP-1.
- vostroyans add 6" range to all ranged weapons (including flamers and rapid-fire distance)
- mordians: (if an infantry unit can do 2 mortal wounds with Lasguns on 6s to hit, max of 2), bump that up that to 3 MW if all models in a unit is in base contact with at least 1 other model, 4MW if all models are in base contact with 2 other models. Vehicles add 1 to hit and overwatch when within 3" of another Mordian vehicle.
- tallarn: units that advance do not count as having advanced.


Some of these add speed, some add durability, some increase firepower, some ignore cover. They each provide situational benefits, while being strong enough to adapt to the meta.
   
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 Kanluwen wrote:

You might want to reread the previous two books...because yeah, that's the wrong takeaway.


Beat me to it.


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 Salted Diamond wrote:
Just for the sake of discussion, how could each Regiment be done to make them all equally viable, but not stupid OP.

A lot of ways depending on how strictly you define viable. If you have AM list A, B, C... then is it enough that each Regiment is the best for one of those lists or must they all be equally good for all lists? In any case fine-tuning balance cannot be done without playtesting.

It'd be easier to look at which Regimental Doctrines, Stratagems, Orders, WL traits and Relics are unfluffy, too wordy or too time-consuming to resolve and which ones are used in competitive play and then Errata from there to improve things. With points being out of whack any rules changes you suggest would be unbalanced when points get changed, this is why points and rules changes have to go together. Since balance is impossible the changes I'd make at the moment would just be to make them simple and to enhance a fluffy playstyle more than an unfluffy playstyle. Coming up with 3 different aspects for each Regimental Doctrine is just a waste of time, ultimately the combination of points and Regimental Doctrine is going to make some units better than others, that's the whole point of the thing. Keep it simple and put the power into the datasheet or lower pts costs.

ARMAGEDDON: INDUSTRIAL EFFICIENCY
Each time an attack with an Armour Penetration characteristic of -1 is allocated to a model with this doctrine, that attack has an Armour Penetration characteristic of 0 instead.

CADIAN: FIRING DRILLS
When a model with this doctrine makes an attack in the Shooting phase and is currently being affected by an order add 1 to the hit roll if the model's unit Remained Stationary in your Movement phase.

CATACHAN: BRUTAL STRENGTH
Add 1 to the Strength characteristic of models with this doctrine.

KRIEG: CULT OF SACRIFICE
Add 1 to the WS and Ld characteristics of models with this doctrine.

MORDIAN: UNYIELDING
Units with this doctrine automatically pass Combat Attrition tests. (I'd have some kind of Parade formation rule elsewhere, probably the Strat.)

TALLARN: LIGHTNING AMBUSH
When a model with this doctrine outside terrain makes an attack in the Shooting phase add 1 to the hit roll if the model's unit was wholly within a terrain feature at the start of your Movement phase or arrived from Reinforcements during your Movement phase. (supersonic Guardsmen firing normally is obnoxious from a fluff perspective)

VALHALLAN: GRIM DEMEANOUR
Units with this doctrine gain a 6+ invulnerable save.

VOSTROYAN: HEIRLOOM WEAPONS
Units with this doctrine can add 6" to the maximum range of Heavy or Rapid Fire weapons they fire which would normally have a range of 24" or more.

If you want to take the strictest possible definition of balance (list A must be equally viable whether you take it as Regiment 1, 2, 3...) then you have to cut down on the amount of rules a particular Regiment gives to just relics and WL traits, any more rules than that and that project becomes impossible when you are not just trying to make each Regiment equally good for list A, but also B, C... Balancing becomes more difficult as you add more rules and as you make rules more powerful. Making one unit better at firing Overwatch once per game vs re-rolling the number of shots for a flamer once per game is easier to balance compared to everyone gets overwatch all the time and they hit real easy when firing overwatch vs weapon with random numbers of shots get to roll 3 extra D6 and remove the two lowest and the highest result. This is totally what I would do, yeet Regimental Doctrines and Regimental Orders out the window and I'd go a step further and chuck faction WL traits and Stratagems as well and let people organize create their own custom set of Stratagems for their army from a generic list.

Do you really care whether Mordians are equally viable or do you just want them to feel thematic and balanced to play?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/11/01 05:13:57


 
   
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Gathering the Informations.

You know that vehicles get <Regiment> too, right?

That's what Regimental Traits do right now. There's a vehicle portion and an infantry portion.

Also, why in the world are you giving Krieg +1WS?
   
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Seneca Nation of Indians

 Kanluwen wrote:

Also, why in the world are you giving Krieg +1WS?


Probably for bayonet charges.


Fate is in heaven, armor is on the chest, accomplishment is in the feet. - Nagao Kagetora
 
   
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 Kanluwen wrote:
You know that vehicles get <Regiment> too, right?

That's what Regimental Traits do right now. There's a vehicle portion and an infantry portion.

Also, why in the world are you giving Krieg +1WS?

I don't see why there needs to be a vehicle and infantry portion.

They all had WS 3+ in 8th. They wouldn't have their own datasheet if I had my way.
   
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Gathering the Informations.

 vict0988 wrote:

I don't see why there needs to be a vehicle and infantry portion.

Because if you don't split them out, you end up with weird interactions...like how your Cadian one is useless for 99% of vehicles, with the only ones able to benefit from the full trait being Leman Russes thanks to being able to be issued Tank Orders or where Steel Legion infantry are now some of the toughest goons around because of "industrial efficiency".

They all had WS 3+ in 8th. They wouldn't have their own datasheet if I had my way.

They don't have their own datasheet now though?
The Grenadiers do, currently, in Legends and the Engineers+Death Riders do in the Compendium.

Death Riders and Engineers both are WS4+, not 3+ in the Compendium.
Grenadiers are 3+ in Legends.
   
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Seneca Nation of Indians

 Kanluwen wrote:
... or where Steel Legion infantry are now some of the toughest goons around because of "industrial efficiency".


*Quietly cheering*, but a valid point.


Fate is in heaven, armor is on the chest, accomplishment is in the feet. - Nagao Kagetora
 
   
 
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