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Made in gb
Darkwolf



West Sussex, UK

Announced today, the second game in Warlord Games Epic Battles series. Seems like they have fixed a lot of the issues with the first game such as better range with 3 plastic kits per army at launch - 1 infantry and 2 cavalry with a mix of units on each sprue (as an example, the British infantry sprue has both line infantry and 95th Rifles along with cannons and mounted command). Only British and French to start with but Prussians teased along with named commanders).

What makes for an Epic Battle? After the triumphant release of our Epic Battles: American Civil War range last year, we’ve been pondering which other period of the Black Powder Age would warrant the Epic Battles treatment. There are far too numerous possibilities to list them all here, but ultimately the answer was obvious. The battle that is universally cited as a critical turning point in European military history – its outcome ushering in (relative) peacetime on the continent and ending an era of warfare that had begun with the French Revolution in the 1790s: Sunday 18th June 1815 – Waterloo.

The Most Epic Battle at an Epic Scale

This is one of our biggest ever releases – with two starter sets, one each for the British and French to choose from – each absolutely stuffed with miniatures, this is the ultimate way to replicate the most famous battle in history (or any other Hundred Days Campaign battles) on an Epic, yet manageable, scale.

Each of the two starter sets contains over 1000 figures, plus terrain, a bespoke A5 rulebook, bases and everything to get you started. Each contains a mixture of infantry, heavy cavalry, light cavalry, artillery and commanders all in plastic. Cavalry is vital for Napoleonic gaming and so we’ve made sure to cover the most iconic regiments in numbers that best represent how many were fielded in the armies covered (ie. British Scots Greys are in the box but only 2 per sprue as there was only one regiment of them).


Article - https://warlord-community.warlordgames.com/announcing-black-powder-epic-battles-waterloo/?__s=yie9bgm7ivheqbokzfu4

Prices - https://store.warlordgames.com/collections/epic-battles-waterloo

Images spoilered due to size -

Spoiler:
British Starter (includes building) -



French Starter (also includes building) -



Hougoumont -



La Haye Sainte -



The infantry boxes and a sample Sprue -





   
Made in us
Pyromaniac Hellhound Pilot





As much of a surprise as the sun rising and setting, but a welcome one.

Note that the cavalry boxes are almost half the price of the ACW sets and in plastic - presumably they realised everybody was just buying everything but the core set from Kalistra instead.

Wargames Illustrated are also all but confirmed to be including sprues in their November issue again so keep an eye out for those before they inevitably go out of stock.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/11/03 23:57:14


 
   
Made in gb
Pyromaniac Hellhound Pilot




UK



Funny how the French gets skirmish order Voltiguers (I assume) but the British box has the 95th in standard line formation.

They're still gorgeous sets though.

   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Myrtle Creek, OR

I would be very tempted by this. They still doing the US/ROW pricing bump with $25 USD minimum shipping?

Thread Slayer 
   
Made in es
Stealthy Warhound Titan Princeps






They do look gorgeous and I love the scale.

As an spaniard, though, playing either french of brits of that era feels somewhat wrong, for some reason
   
Made in si
Been Around the Block




Love this in concept and presentation (gorgeous small-scale epic battles), but Warlord's proprietary scale is a hard pass for me.
   
Made in at
Discriminating Warrior





Austria

For now, any other setting but Waterloo would have been nice
But yeah, need to have british and french forces as well as the british winning and being a more known "name"

So now we have Waterloo in any possible scale and material

For models/units, we have a suggested 4 bases of 20 models per unit, which takes us to the "standard" 24cm line unit of Black Powder
so the very same as with 28mm

so again the same as with Epic ACW, they don't really take advantage of the smaller scale and you still need a larger table to play while the units itself are not more realistic or historical accurate than the 1/72 or 28mm versions
(in addition that the french frame looks like not having enough elite models, making a unit of 3 bases being the better option)

advertising it as a more manageable scale is tricky, still need a lot of units and a large table, and if 15mm is easier/faster to paint than 28mm really depends on technique and skill.

Would call it more affordable as the guns are "free" compared to 28mm (one get an infantry brigade of 3 battalions for 30€ from the Victrix box as well) and the plastic cavalry in most 28mm boxes make 2 squadrons were you get 2,5 in the epic boxes for similar price

with the problem that cavalry is mixed and in strange numbers, like the british light cavalry with 6 bases hussars and 5 bases dragoons, so 1 box get you 1,5 squadrons hussars and 1 squadron dragoons if you use standard sized units, were the french ones have 4 and 3 bases but 3 different types of cavalry in each box, the overall saving compared to 28mm are the with the artillery
if you wanted to use a lot of guns, epic you saves a lot


personally I think this model range is best use either with other rules, as those would make nice models for Blücher or Republique, or using halve sized units in Black Powder

With 12cm standard sized line and 2 bases per standard unit, this would work much better with BP and also would take advantage of that scale (as it still looks good were 28mm with such a low model count looks rather empty)

Harry, bring this ring to Narnia or the Sith will take the Enterprise

M41 - Alternative Rules for Battles in the 41st Millennium (40k LRB Project) 
   
Made in gb
Darkwolf



West Sussex, UK

The compromise to put the other units on the same sprue as the infantry and cavalry is definitely a double edged sword.

It’s great that the units are in plastic rather than very expensive metal / resin but if you are trying to make a historically accurate force you will, as an example, quickly get too many 95th Rifles and Scottish Cavalry as the ratio works for the starter set but not for larger armies.

I think having Highlanders rather than Rifles in the starter would have made more sense with the rifles available as a metal / resin kit due to the lower numbers needed. Same with the Scottish Cavalry.

I am interested to see where they go with this but I am already invested in too many games and have a backlog that fills my attic so realistically I wont have time to paint this many models (even trying to speed things with either Army Painter dips or Contrast).
   
Made in us
Da Head Honcho Boss Grot




New Jersey, State of Perfection

Never had any interest in Napoleonics, but I'm being tempted. Will probably pass, at least for now, as I have to finish building out my ACW armies. Curious to see if they release more nations in plastic for this setting, if so I might very well jump into some Austrians and/or Prussians.

Glad to see they are expanding the concept though, still hoping for 15mm Pike & Shotte plastics.

This ain't no pansy GW Armor, son - Digital Sculpting Plog, Now with Heavy Weapon Platforms!
Sympathy for the Devil, or: The Project Log from Hell

Ma55ter_fett wrote:It reads like the ramblings of a Nigerian lobotomized Shakespeare typed into a cellphone with a very aggressive autocomplete function.
 
   
Made in us
Pyromaniac Hellhound Pilot





chaos0xomega wrote:
Never had any interest in Napoleonics, but I'm being tempted. Will probably pass, at least for now, as I have to finish building out my ACW armies. Curious to see if they release more nations in plastic for this setting, if so I might very well jump into some Austrians and/or Prussians.

Glad to see they are expanding the concept though, still hoping for 15mm Pike & Shotte plastics.

They've said Prussians are coming next.

There's rumours of the next set being English Civil War.
   
Made in at
Discriminating Warrior





Austria

Still think that not doing Seven Years War is a missed opportunity, as there you could really get away with 1 set of infantry/cavalry for all nations and there are not many doing that period out there

going with 1 famous battle per setting and not supporting anything else is understandable and we have seen the same from Italeri in 1:72

Harry, bring this ring to Narnia or the Sith will take the Enterprise

M41 - Alternative Rules for Battles in the 41st Millennium (40k LRB Project) 
   
Made in gb
Battlefield Tourist





On an Express Elevator to Hell!!

These look lovely.

No doubt I will have a moment of weakness and purchase them!

Epic 30K&40K! A new players guide, contributors welcome https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/751316.page
Small but perfectly formed! A Great Crusade Epic 6mm project: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/694411.page
 
   
Made in us
Infiltrating Broodlord




Lake County, Illinois

I do wish they'd done almost any other Napoleonic campaign but Waterloo, to be honest. But I suspect I'm in the minority there, and they're just doing what will sell.
   
Made in pl
Longtime Dakkanaut




I still do not get the appeal of nappy wargaming, but the boxes do look very appealing in terms of how much stuff you get.
   
Made in gb
[DCM]
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

i think the appeal is all of Europe was involved so you can play as the 'home' team wherever your from and shifting alliances means almost everybody can find a set of battles their 'team' won

plus there has been a long tradition of gaming the battle from army officer training prior to totally hobby stuff

as well as they're towards the end of the set battle peroid with units acting en-block in the main rather than spread out (and thus a pain to move) skirmishers

 
   
Made in us
Da Head Honcho Boss Grot




New Jersey, State of Perfection

Cronch wrote:
I still do not get the appeal of nappy wargaming, but the boxes do look very appealing in terms of how much stuff you get.


I assume it appeals mainly to French and English gamers (and Anglo/Francophiles or people of English/French descent). Those seem to be the common threads amongst basically everyone I have ever encountered personally who had interest in Napoleonic wargaming. I assume it has to do with the historic ties and rivalries between the two. For the French it was when France was ascendant and arguably at its most powerful (having conquered/subjugated most of Europe). For the English they basically got to fight and win a world war against their historic rival while being the senior/dominant partner in the opposition instead of playing second fiddle to another power, etc. Thats my theory anyway, could be off base, but for the most part I never found much of an appeal in Napoleonic gaming, whereas as an American I do find an appeal in the somewhat similar but still dramatically different ACW era.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/11/04 16:07:18


This ain't no pansy GW Armor, son - Digital Sculpting Plog, Now with Heavy Weapon Platforms!
Sympathy for the Devil, or: The Project Log from Hell

Ma55ter_fett wrote:It reads like the ramblings of a Nigerian lobotomized Shakespeare typed into a cellphone with a very aggressive autocomplete function.
 
   
Made in us
Battlefield Tourist




MN

I was thinking of delving into Nappies next year, and this is tempting.

However, I was leaning more towards Est Sans Resultant.

Support Blood and Spectacles Publishing:
https://www.patreon.com/Bloodandspectaclespublishing 
   
Made in at
Discriminating Warrior





Austria

chaos0xomega wrote:
Cronch wrote:
I still do not get the appeal of nappy wargaming, but the boxes do look very appealing in terms of how much stuff you get.


I assume it appeals mainly to French and English gamers (and Anglo/Francophiles or people of English/French descent). Those seem to be the common threads amongst basically everyone I have ever encountered personally who had interest in Napoleonic wargaming. I assume it has to do with the historic ties and rivalries between the two. For the French it was when France was ascendant and arguably at its most powerful (having conquered/subjugated most of Europe). For the English they basically got to fight and win a world war against their historic rival while being the senior/dominant partner in the opposition instead of playing second fiddle to another power, etc. Thats my theory anyway, could be off base, but for the most part I never found much of an appeal in Napoleonic gaming, whereas as an American I do find an appeal in the somewhat similar but still dramatically different ACW era.


Waterloo is very very famous in England, there are more books about Waterloo and the units/officers there in English than about the rest of the Napoleonic Wars together, and yes all those campaigns were France won and specially all those battles were the british forces lost are a non-topic most of the time

for French, Waterloo was the battle were all was lost, but neither France nor Napoleon were on the high if its power, this was 1805-1811 and having a box about the Battle of Austerlitz, Friedland or Wagram would be much more appreciated on the continent than Waterloo. Yet those are without Britain hence a British company won't release one.

It is the most iconic battle in history and pop culture, because it is so well researched and everyone knows what it is about if the name drops, but this is also the reason everyone is doing it.
You can get Waterloo in 54mm, 28mm, 20mm, 15mm, 10mm, 6mm and 2mm now, in metal, resin and plastic, another set to add 15mm plastic to the list is overkill, specially with boxes that only work for that single battle

Harry, bring this ring to Narnia or the Sith will take the Enterprise

M41 - Alternative Rules for Battles in the 41st Millennium (40k LRB Project) 
   
Made in us
Infiltrating Broodlord




Lake County, Illinois

 Easy E wrote:
I was thinking of delving into Nappies next year, and this is tempting.

However, I was leaning more towards Est Sans Resultant.


I have never played Et Sans Resultant, but their campaign books are amazing, and well worth it even if you use other rules.
   
Made in us
Da Head Honcho Boss Grot




New Jersey, State of Perfection

 kodos wrote:
chaos0xomega wrote:
Cronch wrote:
I still do not get the appeal of nappy wargaming, but the boxes do look very appealing in terms of how much stuff you get.


I assume it appeals mainly to French and English gamers (and Anglo/Francophiles or people of English/French descent). Those seem to be the common threads amongst basically everyone I have ever encountered personally who had interest in Napoleonic wargaming. I assume it has to do with the historic ties and rivalries between the two. For the French it was when France was ascendant and arguably at its most powerful (having conquered/subjugated most of Europe). For the English they basically got to fight and win a world war against their historic rival while being the senior/dominant partner in the opposition instead of playing second fiddle to another power, etc. Thats my theory anyway, could be off base, but for the most part I never found much of an appeal in Napoleonic gaming, whereas as an American I do find an appeal in the somewhat similar but still dramatically different ACW era.


Waterloo is very very famous in England, there are more books about Waterloo and the units/officers there in English than about the rest of the Napoleonic Wars together, and yes all those campaigns were France won and specially all those battles were the british forces lost are a non-topic most of the time

for French, Waterloo was the battle were all was lost, but neither France nor Napoleon were on the high if its power, this was 1805-1811 and having a box about the Battle of Austerlitz, Friedland or Wagram would be much more appreciated on the continent than Waterloo. Yet those are without Britain hence a British company won't release one.

It is the most iconic battle in history and pop culture, because it is so well researched and everyone knows what it is about if the name drops, but this is also the reason everyone is doing it.
You can get Waterloo in 54mm, 28mm, 20mm, 15mm, 10mm, 6mm and 2mm now, in metal, resin and plastic, another set to add 15mm plastic to the list is overkill, specially with boxes that only work for that single battle


thats all well and good, but the discussion we (that is, cronch and myself) are having is about "nappy gaming", not "waterloo gaming".

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/11/04 19:18:37


This ain't no pansy GW Armor, son - Digital Sculpting Plog, Now with Heavy Weapon Platforms!
Sympathy for the Devil, or: The Project Log from Hell

Ma55ter_fett wrote:It reads like the ramblings of a Nigerian lobotomized Shakespeare typed into a cellphone with a very aggressive autocomplete function.
 
   
Made in us
Ancient Venerable Dark Angels Dreadnought





I love the scale and simplicity of the models, but just not sure if I'd jump in yet, especially since it will likely be a solo adventure. I might be tempted by another era down the line (perhaps ancients) but I do at least love the possibility.
   
Made in pl
Longtime Dakkanaut




I get why it's a popular topic in the UK and (presumably) France, but I meant more...the actual gameplay, which always struck me as being the worst of both rank and file and gun-line types. The most interesting battles of the period are the ones which break the mould imo. Like I said, I accept that it's a wildly popular subject, I just don't get why you'd like to replay it on tabletop as anything but chits-and-hexes boardgame.
   
Made in at
Discriminating Warrior





Austria

one of the appeal is the "what if", as during that time a lot of things happend because of single events/decisions were made on a "small" scale
and the models look cool as you have a large variation of colourful uniforms and troop types on the smaller levels as well

and it is the last time were big battles were fought in Rank & File style units and yes the most interesting battles are the smaller ones were not just 2 large lines were facing each other
hence if historical scenarios are played you usually take those interesting parts and not the whole engagement

you can play Napo on army level, but than it is much more a strategic game than it is a tactical wargame, were on Bataillone/Division level the tactical aspect is more important
the good rules out there also have a very dynamic game play were being in the right formation at the right time is important but also keeping the initiative

Napoleonics is more or less the archetype of R&F wargaming and with the very original Kriegspiel started ~1812 to train for those battles, this is the setting of the very first wargame in general

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/11/04 20:01:48


Harry, bring this ring to Narnia or the Sith will take the Enterprise

M41 - Alternative Rules for Battles in the 41st Millennium (40k LRB Project) 
   
Made in us
Da Head Honcho Boss Grot




New Jersey, State of Perfection

 kodos wrote:


and it is the last time were big battles were fought in Rank & File style units


thats not even remotely true.

This ain't no pansy GW Armor, son - Digital Sculpting Plog, Now with Heavy Weapon Platforms!
Sympathy for the Devil, or: The Project Log from Hell

Ma55ter_fett wrote:It reads like the ramblings of a Nigerian lobotomized Shakespeare typed into a cellphone with a very aggressive autocomplete function.
 
   
Made in at
Discriminating Warrior





Austria

lets put it in a different way, it was the last time such large armies fought in Rank & File units as after that, armies were either smaller or not organized in those large blocks any more

Harry, bring this ring to Narnia or the Sith will take the Enterprise

M41 - Alternative Rules for Battles in the 41st Millennium (40k LRB Project) 
   
Made in us
Da Head Honcho Boss Grot




New Jersey, State of Perfection

Thats debatable. The large formations persisted in Europe (and the United States) well into the end of the 19th century. You may not see battles as large as Leipzig again, but I think its splitting hairs to say that something like the Battle of Gravelotte during the Franco-Prussian War was "small" because there were "only" 300,000 troops on the battlefield instead of the 500,000 at Leipzig. Even still, there were about 50% more soldiers on the battlefield at Gravelotte than there were at Waterloo, and many of what are considered to be "major battles" during the Napoleonic wars (Raszyn, Eckmuhl, Raab, Aspern-Essling, Wagram, Smolensk) are smaller than some of the larger battles during the American Civil War, Franco Prussian War, Austro Prussian War, and Crimean War.

This ain't no pansy GW Armor, son - Digital Sculpting Plog, Now with Heavy Weapon Platforms!
Sympathy for the Devil, or: The Project Log from Hell

Ma55ter_fett wrote:It reads like the ramblings of a Nigerian lobotomized Shakespeare typed into a cellphone with a very aggressive autocomplete function.
 
   
Made in ie
Dakka Veteran




Ireland

I am quite interested in this. How does the Epic game differ from the Black Powder rules? Is it just smaller scale and distances?

The objective of the game is to win. The point of the game is to have fun. The two should never be confused. 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




Yeah, it's the same game.
   
Made in us
Executing Exarch




 stonehorse wrote:
I am quite interested in this. How does the Epic game differ from the Black Powder rules? Is it just smaller scale and distances?


The only real difference is the size of the figures, and the way that they're assembled (ranked infantry is a single strip of ten figures in a close line). The distances and the size of the trays is exactly the same as in "normal" Black Powder.

Because the figures are smaller but the trays are the same size, you have more figures in a unit. But otherwise, it's the same.
   
Made in us
Pyromaniac Hellhound Pilot





 stonehorse wrote:
I am quite interested in this. How does the Epic game differ from the Black Powder rules? Is it just smaller scale and distances?

They recommend using CM instead of Inches but that's it - same rulebook and all.
   
 
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