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Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User




EDIT - a revised version of this list is posted below

Hi there. Use to collect lots of 40k back round 4th/5th edition, but gradually stopped before 6th came round. Now trying to get back into it.

I have worked on this list based on the models that I was able to salvage and cheaply get hold of. I would be reluctant to purchase any new units if they are too monetarily expensive, the other models I could get hold of are: [Terminators, Librarian, Scouts, Dreadnought, Devastators, Vindicator, Whirlwind].

I have not considered Stratagems, Chapter Tactics etc. as I am still making sense of them. This list has a focus on Assault. I am not necessarily looking for competitive advice, but if It looks like I am doing something right, and most importantly something wrong, then do please point that out!

++ Battalion Detachment ++

+ HQ +

Captain [5 PL, 90pts]: Power Sword, Warlord

Chaplain [6 PL, 115pts]: Jump Pack, Power Fist

+ Troops +

Tactical Squad [10 PL, 180pts]
. 9x Space Marines
. Space Marine Sergeant

Tactical Squad [10 PL, 162pts]
. 8x Space Marines
. Space Marine Sergeant

Intercessor Squad [10 PL, 140pts]
. 6x Intercessors
. Intercessor Sergeant

Assault Intercessor Squad [5 PL, 95pts]:
. 4x Assault Intercessors
. Assault Intercessor Sergeant

+ Elites +

Vanguard Veteran Squad [14 PL, 257pts]:
. Jump Packs
. 5x Vanguard Veterans, Bolt Pistol, Astartes Chainsword
. 4x Vanguard Veterans, Various Power Weapon Choices *
. Vanguard Veteran Sergeant, Power Weapons *

Vanguard Veteran Squad [14 PL, 260pts]:
. Jump Packs
. 5x Vanguard Veterans, Bolt Pistol, Astartes Chainsword
. 4x Vanguard Veterans, Various Power Weapon Choices *
. Vanguard Veteran Sergeant, Power Weapons *

* I can't be bothered to list the exact weapon choices as they are almost all unique.

+ Fast Attack +

Assault Squad [6 PL, 100pts]:
. Jump Packs
. 4x Space Marines
. Space Marine Sergeant

Assault Squad [6 PL, 100pts]:
. Jump Packs
. 4x Space Marines
. Space Marine Sergeant

++ Total: [86 PL, 9CP, 1499pts] ++

My game plan for this list is to use the Tactical Squads to claim home objectives and gradually move up the table, spearheaded by the Intercessor squads. The Veterans and the Assault Squads will take advantage of Death from Above to get straight into the action (Is it too cheesy for effectively half the army to do this? Should I tone it down?).

Reading around the internet, it seems that Assault Squads have fallen out of favour, eclipsed by Vanguard Veterans. What does DakkaDakka think of them? I don't think an opponent would be happy for me to use Assault marines as Vets and run 30 Vanguard Vets...

Appreciate any thoughts and advice. Also if there's any ideas for Warlord traits, Litanies, Stratagems, Chapter Tactics which you might think would supplement this list, do let me know. Thanks!

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/11/20 23:07:24


 
   
Made in us
Perturbed Blood Angel Tactical Marine




If you want to build an assault oriented army with a heavy use of jump packs, I think your looking at taking a white scars or blood angels successor. Space Wolves are also a decent option. The logical synergy for successor chapter traits is some combo of Whirlwind of Rage, Born Heroes, or Tactical Withdrawal or you can keep it simple and just take the parent chapter's chapter trait.

You'll have access to the parent chapter's codex strats. Of the three chapter's I mentioned, White Scars probably have the most powerful set.

A few points on massed Death from Above or Deepstrike - if you are playing matched play rules, you can't bring them in until turn 2 unless you put them in a drop pod. You'll want to deploy units on the board that allow you to get on objectives turn 1. Usually you need either units that can deploy outside your deployment or fast units like bikes or assault marines to make it to the midboard objectives early. Another drawback to mass deepstrike is that you have to stay at least 9" from the enemy models so it's very easy for an opponent to block you out of large areas of the board with smart positioning of his units and a 9" charge is more likely to fail than go off. Another condition to matched play rules is that anything that starts off the board in reserves needs to come in by end of Turn 3 so you won't be able to wait for perfect moment to drop down your marines in turn 4 or turn 5 once gaps have opened up.

Another recommendation is that unless you are bumping up against org chart slot restrictions or have a specific buff that benefits from having a really large target unit, try and break your 10 man squads into two smaller 5 man squads. Of course, you can always combat squad before the game, but breaking them up gets you a free sargeant with an additional attack and leadership boost for each 5 man whereas combat squading doesnt. As marines, we generally favor smaller squads because it allows you to cover more of the board and sacrifice squads over the course of the game to prevent your opponent from scoring. The game is pretty lethal and it's better for your opponent to way overkill a 5 man squad than get additional efficiency from taking down 10 man in one shooting activation.

I think you need more ranged anti-tank. Multi-melta is the flavor of 9th edition but lascannons can work if that's what you got. Eradicators, attack bikes, Plasma Redemptors and Devastators are all popular options.

If you are going to do lots fighting, having a whirlwind can be a great tech piece for the fight last strat it has. The is will help protect you from opponent interrupting your fight sequence if you have multiple units in engagement range with a dangerous melee threat.

Units with storm shields like Bladeguard, assault terminators and Van Vets are basically the only things you can count on to survive dedicated shooting these days. Be prepared to be saving on 5+ regularly if you are just relying on a 3+ armor save.

Welcome back!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/11/14 04:58:18


 
   
Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User




Sobie wrote:
If you want to build an assault oriented army with a heavy use of jump packs, I think your looking at taking a white scars or blood angels successor. Space Wolves are also a decent option. The logical synergy for successor chapter traits is some combo of Whirlwind of Rage, Born Heroes, or Tactical Withdrawal or you can keep it simple and just take the parent chapter's chapter trait.

You'll have access to the parent chapter's codex strats. Of the three chapter's I mentioned, White Scars probably have the most powerful set.

A few points on massed Death from Above or Deepstrike - if you are playing matched play rules, you can't bring them in until turn 2 unless you put them in a drop pod. You'll want to deploy units on the board that allow you to get on objectives turn 1. Usually you need either units that can deploy outside your deployment or fast units like bikes or assault marines to make it to the midboard objectives early. Another drawback to mass deepstrike is that you have to stay at least 9" from the enemy models so it's very easy for an opponent to block you out of large areas of the board with smart positioning of his units and a 9" charge is more likely to fail than go off. Another condition to matched play rules is that anything that starts off the board in reserves needs to come in by end of Turn 3 so you won't be able to wait for perfect moment to drop down your marines in turn 4 or turn 5 once gaps have opened up.

Another recommendation is that unless you are bumping up against org chart slot restrictions or have a specific buff that benefits from having a really large target unit, try and break your 10 man squads into two smaller 5 man squads. Of course, you can always combat squad before the game, but breaking them up gets you a free sargeant with an additional attack and leadership boost for each 5 man whereas combat squading doesnt. As marines, we generally favor smaller squads because it allows you to cover more of the board and sacrifice squads over the course of the game to prevent your opponent from scoring. The game is pretty lethal and it's better for your opponent to way overkill a 5 man squad than get additional efficiency from taking down 10 man in one shooting activation.

I think you need more ranged anti-tank. Multi-melta is the flavor of 9th edition but lascannons can work if that's what you got. Eradicators, attack bikes, Plasma Redemptors and Devastators are all popular options.

If you are going to do lots fighting, having a whirlwind can be a great tech piece for the fight last strat it has. The is will help protect you from opponent interrupting your fight sequence if you have multiple units in engagement range with a dangerous melee threat.

Units with storm shields like Bladeguard, assault terminators and Van Vets are basically the only things you can count on to survive dedicated shooting these days. Be prepared to be saving on 5+ regularly if you are just relying on a 3+ armor save.

Welcome back!


Hey, thanks a lot for your reply! Yes, the White Scars tactics looked quite useful, as did whirlwind of range.

It sounds like Death from Above is a lot more balanced than I thought, which is a good thing of course (only have the SM codex atm, Core rule book is on its way!). Assuming an unchanged list, I would only Deep Strike the Veterans, and use the Assault Squads to charge up the field to give space for the Veterans to enter the battle (not worried if the Assault Squad gets destroyed; they've done their job getting the Vets into the fray.

In this instance, I can split the tactical squads into 4 smaller squads, giving the limit of 6 troop choices, nice!

In order to improve anti-tank ability, I thought of some things I could do to change that.

Dropping the 2 assault squads and going from 2 squads of 10 veterans to 2 squads of 8 veterans, I would have enough points for a Whirlwind and a Devestator Squad (with the choice of 2 Plasma Cannons, 2 Lascannons, or 2 multi meltas based on what I have). Do you think that would be sufficient ant-tank and a more balanced force?

Of course, losing the Assault squads means I can't charge up the field and leave space for the Veterans, maybe it would be better to drop a Tactical Squad? with that i could keep the Assault squads (just about) and keep all 20 Veterans, splitting them in 4 squads of 5? That would still leave 10 Tactical marines and 12 intercessors across the 2 squads.

What do you think of Hellblasters? Economically, they are easier for me to get hold of than Eradicators, but they're not as tough as them, and only 7pts cheaper a model. Although a whole squad of plasma charging up the field sounds fun! I have read that Inceptors with Plasma are a better option but i just don't like the look of the models.
   
Made in gb
[DCM]
Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot





Leicester, UK

I'd get that whirlwind to try out, it's got a great strategem for denying overwatch on your charging units

My painting and modeling blog:

PaddyMick's Chopshop: Converted 40K Vehicles

 
   
Made in us
Perturbed Blood Angel Tactical Marine




I wouldn't consider Hellblasters and Eradicators as substitutes personally. While Hellblasters can flex into an anti-tank or anti-monster role with their plasmas on overcharge, you are going to lose a number of models to rolling 1's to hit if you don't have a Captain nearby to bail them out with re-rolls. Even then they might not push out the damage necessary to get the job done. Eradicators are much more point and delete with their melta rifles. A common tactic is to reserve them and then bring in from board edge within half range to trigger the melta damage boost.

White Scars have some interesting play with multi-melta devastators riding around in rhinos to get to targets your opponent is trying to hide from them. It utilizes their lightning debarkation strat to let them get out after the transport moves. If you are locked into the the weapon options you mentioned, I'd always take the two meltas and then pick then decide if I want to be able to flex into killing heavy infantry (plasma) or double down on anti-tank with the lascannons. It's somewhat common to see people mix melta with grav cannons which are somewhat similar in role to plasma cannons. You can also choose to split the heavy weapons into separate squads and essentially use them as tac squads with 2 heavy weapons and a sarge that can give one of them +1 to hit. They won't have "objective secured" like a tac squad but that's not necessarily a critical if they are hanging out in your deployment zone for most of the game.

I rarely use more than 3×5 man troop squads in my lists. You might find that you have some fat to cut there to help you afford some harder hitting or tougher elite or heavy support units.

You'll find the whirlwind is almost useless at inflicting losses on your opponent (unless they have weak horde units). It's value is locked up in the suppressing fire strat that it unlocks for you. If you find that you aren't regularly using that strat to your advantage, the whirlwind might not be the right choice for your list and play style. I love mine though.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/11/16 03:35:19


 
   
Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User




Apologies for the late reply!

I amended the list to be a more balanced force, taking in some of your advice.
(I’ve decided i like the inceptor models!).

Here it goes:

+ HQ +

Captain [5 PL, 90pts]: Master-crafted boltgun, Power sword, Warlord

Chaplain [6 PL, 115pts]: Jump Pack, Litany of Hate, Power fist

+ Troops +

Assault Intercessor Squad [5 PL, 95pts]
. 4x Assault Intercessor: 4x Astartes Chainsword, 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Heavy Bolt Pistol
. Assault Intercessor Sgt: Astartes Chainsword, Heavy Bolt Pistol

Intercessor Squad [10 PL, 140pts]: Bolt rifle
. 6x Intercessor: 6x Bolt pistol, 6x Frag & Krak grenades
. Intercessor Sergeant

Tactical Squad [10 PL, 108pts]
. 5x Space Marine: 5x Bolt pistol, 5x Boltgun, 5x Frag & Krak grenades
. Space Marine Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Boltgun

Tactical Squad [10 PL, 108pts]
. 5x Space Marine: 5x Bolt pistol, 5x Boltgun, 5x Frag & Krak grenades
. Space Marine Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Boltgun

+ Elites +

Vanguard Veteran Squad [7 PL, 129pts]: Jump Pack
. Vanguard Veteran: Power sword, Storm shield
. Vanguard Veteran: Power sword
. Vanguard Veteran: Bolt pistol and Chainsword
. Vanguard Veteran: Bolt pistol and Chainsword
. Vanguard Veteran Sergeant: Power sword, Storm shield

Vanguard Veteran Squad [7 PL, 129pts]: Jump Pack
. Vanguard Veteran: Power sword, Storm shield
. Vanguard Veteran: Power sword
. Vanguard Veteran: Bolt pistol and Chainsword
. Vanguard Veteran: Bolt pistol and Chainsword
. Vanguard Veteran Sergeant: Power sword, Storm shield

+ Fast Attack +

Inceptor Squad [7 PL, 180pts]: 2x Inceptor, Inceptor Sergeant, Plasma Exterminator x2

+ Heavy Support +

Devastator Squad [8 PL, 165pts]
. Devastator Marine Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Boltgun
. Devastator Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Multi-melta
. Devastator Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Lascannon
. Devastator Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Multi-melta
. Devastator Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Multi-melta

Hellblaster Squad [8 PL, 165pts]: Plasma incinerator
. 4x Hellblaster: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades
. Hellblaster Sergeant: Bolt pistol

+ Dedicated Transport +

Drop Pod [4 PL, 70pts]: Storm bolter

++ Total: [87 PL, 1,494pts] ++

I have consolidated the Vanguard squads into 2 5-man squads so that there are still enough numbers to get up the field, and the Chaplain can buff them on the attack.

I have taken an (almost) all melta devastator squad to arrive in with a drop pod to make a mess early on. I have also added in the Plasmaceptors as they look very good according to codex ( 2d3 S7 shots each?!).

Lastly, i chucked in a small squad of hellblasters for extra firepower, but maybe there’s a better way to spend 165-171pts?

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/11/20 23:10:42


 
   
Made in de
Ladies Love the Vibro-Cannon Operator






Hamburg

Looks better.
I'd drop one troop unit and add another Vanguard (or Dev) unit.

Former moderator 40kOnline

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