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Made in us
Ancient Venerable Dark Angels Dreadnought





I assumed that the Veterans of the Long Vigil rule meant that you picked a single Chapter Trait that then applied for the entire army that Battle Round, but have been hearing rumblings that it is in fact by unit. The wording is a little funky, but does specifically state "this unit" as if selecting a single unit at a time.

now, this would make the army super versatile but would be a nightmare to manage and keep track of (since you can't repeat same tactic).

here is the exact verbiage if anyone wants a stab at it..

"At the start of each battle Round you can select one Chapter Tactic or Successor Tactic from Codex: Space Marines. If you do, then until the start of the next Battle Round, this unit has the specified Chapter Tactic or Successor Tactic instead of Xenos Hunters.

You cannot select the same Chapter Tactic or Successor Tactic more than once per battle."

All Kill teams and characters gain the Veterans of the Long Vigil ability.
   
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Fixture of Dakka




NE Ohio, USA

I agree, it sounds like every character/unit gets its own choice each round - provided nothing is ever duplicated.
I'd track it by making a deck of cards for the tactics. Once used the tactics card is played next to the unit, then removed from the game when it expired.
No card in the deck next round = no chance of accidentally duplicating it.
   
Made in us
Ancient Venerable Dark Angels Dreadnought





ccs wrote:
I agree, it sounds like every character/unit gets its own choice each round - provided nothing is ever duplicated.
I'd track it by making a deck of cards for the tactics. Once used the tactics card is played next to the unit, then removed from the game when it expired.
No card in the deck next round = no chance of accidentally duplicating it.


yes, but is it that you can't pick the same chapter tactic for that unit, or for the entire army? I could see the same unit not being allowed to keep using the same tactic, but weird that another unit that hasn't used it could not do so. Perhaps you're right though, which would make book keeping much easier.
   
Made in gb
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain





Cardiff

You pick once for the army per Battle Round and every unit with this rule gets the Chapter Tactic you picked.

 Stormonu wrote:
For me, the joy is in putting some good-looking models on the board and playing out a fantasy battle - not arguing over the poorly-made rules of some 3rd party who neither has any power over my play nor will be visiting me (and my opponent) to ensure we are "playing by the rules"
 
   
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Never Forget Isstvan!






its the whole army. It only says "this unit" in refferance to each unit using said rule instead of their xenos hunter rule.

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 Eihnlazer wrote:
its the whole army. It only says "this unit" in refferance to each unit using said rule instead of their xenos hunter rule.


There is nothing in the rule that stipulates it activates at the army level. The ability is present on each unit, and the language triggers individually for every unit. It's fundamentally different from similar abilities like Doctrines, which have an army level component in addition to the unit level component that tells you what it actually does.

The rule desperately needs an FAQ to clarify both intent, and functionality.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/11/15 12:19:23


 
   
Made in us
Daemonic Dreadnought





Eye of Terror

Sterling191 wrote:
 Eihnlazer wrote:
its the whole army. It only says "this unit" in refferance to each unit using said rule instead of their xenos hunter rule.


There is nothing in the rule that stipulates it activates at the army level. The ability is present on each unit, and the language triggers individually for every unit. It's fundamentally different from similar abilities like Doctrines, which have an army level component in addition to the unit level component that tells you what it actually does.

The rule desperately needs an FAQ to clarify both intent, and functionality.


Indeed.

Originally, I read it to mean each unit can pick a Chapter Tactic and think that's RAW. This meant I could fall back and shoot with an infantry unit while another could advance and charge. Other units where I don't choose a Chapter Tactic would simply not have any special benefit that turn. I would only choose a given CT to apply once per battle.

A few people have suggested to me that the third sentence is specific to each unit. So if I picked the Ultramarines CT on a KT, I could do so again on a different KT any turn I wanted.

I think that's the part that needs to be clarified. Should the sentence be:

"You cannot select the same Chapter Tactic or Successor Tactic to apply to the same unit more than once per battle."

... or should it be ...

"You cannot select the same Chapter Tactic or Successor Tactic to apply to any unit more than once per battle."

   
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 techsoldaten wrote:

I think that's the part that needs to be clarified. Should the sentence be:

"You cannot select the same Chapter Tactic or Successor Tactic to apply to the same unit more than once per battle."


This is how we've been interpreting it at the shop, but we're under no illusions that that is the correct designers intent. It's just more fun (and a commensurate boost to the army given what it has to give up to unlock the AoR). It's purely in HIWPI territory.
   
Made in us
Sure Space Wolves Land Raider Pilot





The verbiage to watch here is this one.

At the start of each battle Round you can select one Chapter Tactic or Successor Tactic from Codex: Space Marines.

Not one per unit, one per round.

If you follow the rules exactly as written, each round you pick a singular chapter tactic or successor tactic. For the rest of that round anytime you reference the Veterans of the Long Vigil ability you will be referred to that one pick you made and each individual unit will gain that tactic. I can see how the writing of that rule seems ambiguous but if you break it down and follow it one step at a time it becomes apparent how it works.

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 Aftersong wrote:

If you follow the rules exactly as written, each round you pick a singular chapter tactic or successor tactic. For the rest of that round anytime you reference the Veterans of the Long Vigil ability you will be referred to that one pick you made and each individual unit will gain that tactic. I can see how the writing of that rule seems ambiguous but if you break it down and follow it one step at a time it becomes apparent how it works.


You've missed the critical point: This is a datasheet level ability that has no stipulation that it activates only once per battle round. Every unit in the army will have this, and as written it will trigger that many times per battle round.

You're being explicitly told to pick CTs multiple times if one, as you suggested, follows the rules exactly as written.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/11/16 12:59:02


 
   
Made in us
Daemonic Dreadnought





Eye of Terror

 Aftersong wrote:
The verbiage to watch here is this one.

At the start of each battle Round you can select one Chapter Tactic or Successor Tactic from Codex: Space Marines.

Not one per unit, one per round.

If you follow the rules exactly as written, each round you pick a singular chapter tactic or successor tactic. For the rest of that round anytime you reference the Veterans of the Long Vigil ability you will be referred to that one pick you made and each individual unit will gain that tactic. I can see how the writing of that rule seems ambiguous but if you break it down and follow it one step at a time it becomes apparent how it works.


That's an interesting take. Let me explain how it's compatible with the points made in my previous post.

The subject of the rule is not the army. It is the unit. That's what we learn in sentence two. There is nothing in sentence one that declares the selected tactic must be applied to the entire army.

If you wanted to play as if every unit in the army must have the same chapter tactic that turn, go ahead. It assumes each unit is allowed to have the same chapter tactic (the third sentence contains restrictions which are ambiguously worded.)

But it would be equally valid to say each unit can take it's own chapter tactic. The only real question is whether 2 KTs can have the same tactic in the same game.


   
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Hopefully there is a clarification when the Octarius book FAQ hits
   
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Answered in FAQ, its one trait for whole army per Battle Round
   
Made in gb
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain





Cardiff

Well whaddya know…

 Stormonu wrote:
For me, the joy is in putting some good-looking models on the board and playing out a fantasy battle - not arguing over the poorly-made rules of some 3rd party who neither has any power over my play nor will be visiting me (and my opponent) to ensure we are "playing by the rules"
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




It was sorely needed, so good to have the clarification.
   
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Daemonic Dreadnought





Eye of Terror

Happy for the clarification.

I played it per unit in a couple battles, slowed down the game and was really hard to track.

Glad to have it across the army.

   
 
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