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in all situations I used capering imps(1k sons infernal master) on a guardsman squad. (cannot recieve the benefits of cover, no overwatch and cannot set to defend)

Situation 1: I'm shooting through a forest that neither the guardsmen or the shooting squad are touching. Do I suffer -1?

Situation 2: I'm fully inside a forest and have to pass through the forest said forest to shoot the guardsmen who are just standing on regular table. Do I suffer the -1?

Situation 3: The opposing guardsmen squad is fully situated inside a forest while I'm standing on regular table. My LOS passes over the forest. Do I suffer the -1?


Please provide explanations with your answers please. Thanks for your help!

 Aijec wrote:
Situation 3: The opposing guardsmen squad is fully situated inside a forest while I'm standing on regular table. My LOS passes over the forest. Do I suffer the -1?

How does the LOS pass over the forest if the guardsmen squad is fully situated inside the forest?

This situation does not make sense, please clarify.

Either way, the answer to all three is, It depends on the terrain traits of the terrain feature. (Well maybe not for number 2 or 3, but definitely for #1).

Per the Ignoring Benefits of Cover section of the Rare Rules and that Capering Imps states "that unit cannot receive the benefits of cover", the unit benefits neither from Armor Save modifiers nor Hit roll Modifiers due to cover. So units attacking that unit do not suffer the -1 Hit Modifier normally caused by Dense Cover.

Do NOT suffer, surely?

Yes. Corrected.

 DeathReaper wrote:

 Aijec wrote:
Situation 3: The opposing guardsmen squad is fully situated inside a forest while I'm standing on regular table. My LOS passes over the forest. Do I suffer the -1?

How does the LOS pass over the forest if the guardsmen squad is fully situated inside the forest?

This situation does not make sense, please clarify.

Either way, the answer to all three is, It depends on the terrain traits of the terrain feature. (Well maybe not for number 2 or 3, but definitely for #1).

a squad of guardsmen is within a forest and the forest extends further than their bases. so whoever is firing will be crossing over the forest.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 alextroy wrote:
Per the Ignoring Benefits of Cover section of the Rare Rules and that Capering Imps states "that unit cannot receive the benefits of cover", the unit benefits neither from Armor Save modifiers nor Hit roll Modifiers due to cover. So units attacking that unit do not suffer the -1 Hit Modifier normally caused by Dense Cover.

Is this true even when the guardsmen aren't touching the terrain piece? they wouldn't ever be benefiting from dense terrain rather the shooting unit would be suffering.

I want it to work the way you're saying because I'm considering taking the imps as a 2nd option but just want to be able to clarify how it works mid-game.

Thanks for the help as always

The firing unit being at -1 to hit is a benefit of cover.

Rare Rules section, summary at end:

“Does not receive the benefits of cover = ignore Light Cover, Heavy Cover, Dense Cover etc.”

Simples.

 Aijec wrote:

Spoiler:

 DeathReaper wrote:

 Aijec wrote:
Situation 3: The opposing guardsmen squad is fully situated inside a forest while I'm standing on regular table. My LOS passes over the forest. Do I suffer the -1?

How does the LOS pass over the forest if the guardsmen squad is fully situated inside the forest?

This situation does not make sense, please clarify.

Either way, the answer to all three is, It depends on the terrain traits of the terrain feature. (Well maybe not for number 2 or 3, but definitely for #1).

a squad of guardsmen is within a forest and the forest extends further than their bases. so whoever is firing will be crossing over the forest.

That still does not make any sense, thanks for trying to clarify though.

 DeathReaper wrote:

 Aijec wrote:

Spoiler:

 DeathReaper wrote:

 Aijec wrote:
Situation 3: The opposing guardsmen squad is fully situated inside a forest while I'm standing on regular table. My LOS passes over the forest. Do I suffer the -1?

How does the LOS pass over the forest if the guardsmen squad is fully situated inside the forest?

This situation does not make sense, please clarify.

Either way, the answer to all three is, It depends on the terrain traits of the terrain feature. (Well maybe not for number 2 or 3, but definitely for #1).

a squad of guardsmen is within a forest and the forest extends further than their bases. so whoever is firing will be crossing over the forest.

That still does not make any sense, thanks for trying to clarify though.

Any LOS from outside Woods to a model inside the Woods passes over the Woods to get to the models.

That is passing through the woods, not over it. (Not all the way through, but partially through it).

When people say passes over the Woods, it seems like the LoS does not involve the woods at all, just like shooting over a tank would involve seeing over the actual tank.

It was worded very strangely, but if that is what he meant, then I get it.

 DeathReaper wrote:
That is passing through the woods, not over it. (Not all the way through, but partially through it).

When people say passes over the Woods, it seems like the LoS does not involve the woods at all, just like shooting over a tank would involve seeing over the actual tank.

It was worded very strangely, but if that is what he meant, then I get it.

in either scenario you would be -1 so why did it matter in your head O.o and I didn't say passes over I said crossing over


thanks for the clarifications everyone. I'm sure it'll come up sometime and I just want to be knowledgable

 Aijec wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:
That is passing through the woods, not over it. (Not all the way through, but partially through it).

When people say passes over the Woods, it seems like the LoS does not involve the woods at all, just like shooting over a tank would involve seeing over the actual tank.

It was worded very strangely, but if that is what he meant, then I get it.

in either scenario you would be -1 so why did it matter in your head O.o and I didn't say passes over I said crossing over


thanks for the clarifications everyone. I'm sure it'll come up sometime and I just want to be knowledgable

Except you specifically said "My LOS passes over the forest"

 Aijec wrote:
Situation 3: The opposing guardsmen squad is fully situated inside a forest while I'm standing on regular table. My LOS passes over the forest. Do I suffer the -1?\

It matters because if you are inside of a forest, LoS shouldn't be able to pass over that forest. but you said it was, so it was confusing.

 DeathReaper wrote:
That is passing through the woods, not over it. (Not all the way through, but partially through it).

When people say passes over the Woods, it seems like the LoS does not involve the woods at all, just like shooting over a tank would involve seeing over the actual tank.

It was worded very strangely, but if that is what he meant, then I get it.

Think of the bird as a 2D map like my drawing. The LOS literally passes over part of the Woods. That’s all there is to it. It doesn’t mean “goes all the way across and out the far side” only, though that would also count as passing over the Woods, of course.

 JohnnyHell wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:
That is passing through the woods, not over it. (Not all the way through, but partially through it).

When people say passes over the Woods, it seems like the LoS does not involve the woods at all, just like shooting over a tank would involve seeing over the actual tank.

It was worded very strangely, but if that is what he meant, then I get it.

Think of the bird as a 2D map like my drawing. The LOS literally passes over part of the Woods. That’s all there is to it. It doesn’t mean “goes all the way across and out the far side” only, though that would also count as passing over the Woods, of course.

Yea, in a 2d environment that makes sense, but the battlefield is a 3D environment, so what he said was confusing.

Regardless, now you know!