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Made in gb
Lead-Footed Trukkboy Driver





United Kingdom

Hi all,

I have a couple of questions about Emperor's Children's "Excess of Violence" stratagem ("EoV") and I wonder what you guys think.

Question 1 - generating extra attacks

So EoV states that you generate an extra attack for each model killed in melee by the affected unit.

The original wording of EoV stipulated that these bonus attacks did not generate any further bonus attacks themselves. So if you killed model 1, gained a bonus attack from EoV, and then used it to kill model 2, killing model 2 would not give you bonus attacks, otherwise you could just keep going forever.

However, when Faith and Fury came out containing a new version of EoV, this cap was removed from the new wording. I took this to mean that, now, you could indeed just keep generating bonus attacks for as long as you kept killing, which seemed pretty powerful (I hesitate to say "broken" as this is CSM we are talking about, and come on, we need *something*).

Enter 9th Edition. The "rare rules" question of the 9th Edition rulebook states that bonus *hits* do not benefit from other special abilities that are triggered by the hit roll, e.g. if a hit roll of six (1) generates an extra hit and (2) automatically wounds the target then the bonus hit will not automatically wound the target. However, *hits* are not *attacks*.

So am I right in thinking that EoV still works like it did in 8th edition post-Faith and Fury, i.e. there is no cap on bonus attacks and I can just keep going until I stop killing?

Question 2 - interaction with the new version of Death to the False Emperor

So the old version of Death to the False Emperor ("DTTFE") expressly stipulated that bonus attacks generated by DTTFE did not, in themselves, generate further attacks.

There was an FAQ regarding how this interacted with EoV, and it stated that bonus attacks generated by DTTFE that ended up killing models would not end up generating further attacks, either by rolling more sixes (DTTFE) or killing more models (EoV).

Obviously, DTTFE has been changed now so that it generates extra *hits*, rather than *attacks*.

So what happens if:

* I score a six to hit, thus scoring an extra hit
* The extra hit kills an enemy model
* EoV enables me to roll another attack
* For my bonus attack roll, I get a six to hit

Can I potentially just keep going on forever generating more hits and attacks as long as the dice rolls permit?

Many thanks in advance
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





This is covered by the following errata:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/lKo58OjfYV7Ysecp.pdf

*Page 363 – Rare Rules
Add the following:
Attacks That Make Multiple Hit Rolls
Some rules, typically weapon abilities, tell you to roll more than one hit roll for each attack made , e.g. ‘each time an attack is made with this weapon, make 2 hit rolls instead of 1’. In these cases, each hit roll is treated as a separate attack that is made against the same target. As such, all normal rules that are triggered by attacks, or that apply to attacks (such as re-rolls or modifiers conferred by other rules) apply to each ‘hit roll’. Note that these additional attacks do not themselves result in more hit rolls being made.
Some rules can generate additional attacks during the attack sequence itself, e.g. ‘after resolving all this model’s attacks, it
can make a number of additional attacks against that enemy
unit equal to the number of attacks that did not reach the inflict damage step of the attack sequence during that fight.’ In these cases, these additional attacks can never benefit from rules that let you roll more than one hit roll for each attack being made – they can only ever generate one additional hit roll for each attack being made – but all other rules that are triggered by attacks, or that apply to attacks (such as re-rolls or modifiers conferred by other rules) apply to each additional hit roll. In addition, these additional attacks cannot themselves trigger any rules that would generate any further additional attacks.
If a rule tells you to make more than one hit roll for each attack made, each hit roll is treated as a separate attack made against the same target.
If a rule generates additional attacks during the attack sequence, those additional attacks never benefit from rules that tell you to make more than one hit roll for each attack made, and they can never themselves generate additional attacks.
emphasis mine.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/11/28 16:49:59


 
   
Made in us
Lead-Footed Trukkboy Driver





United Kingdom

Thanks. I had an inkling that there was something about this somewhere. It was nice to think that Chaos had something good for a while!
   
 
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