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Made in de
Ladies Love the Vibro-Cannon Operator






Hamburg

Dakka is indeed a very nice site.
But it appears to loose steam as there are other places out there like Reddit or Goonhammer which provide more opportunities for competitive play.
Look for instance at
https://www.reddit.com/r/WarhammerCompetitive/ (it combines 40k, 30k and AoS)
or the Goonhammer breakdowns of codices.

To counteract this, I suggest to introduce a thread for ''Competitive Play'' (besides ''Tournament Discussion'' or merging of both).
Otherwise, an exodus to other sites for certain users is likely.

Opinions?




Former moderator 40kOnline

Lanchester's square law - please obey in list building!

Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a "" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."

Armies: Eldar, Necrons, Blood Angels, Grey Knights; World Eaters (30k); Bloodbound; Cryx, Circle, Cyriss 
   
Made in us
Daemonic Dreadnought





Eye of Terror

All for it.

But I think the opportunity to prevent an exodus has already passed.

   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka







...and I'd say "Nuts & Bolts" is where this would be more appropriate.

2021-4 Plog - Here we go again... - my fifth attempt at a Dakka PLOG

My Pile of Potential - updates ongoing...

Gamgee on Tau Players wrote:we all kill cats and sell our own families to the devil and eat live puppies.


 Kanluwen wrote:
This is, emphatically, why I will continue suggesting nuking Guard and starting over again. It's a legacy army that needs to be rebooted with a new focal point.

Confirmation of why no-one should listen to Kanluwen when it comes to the IG - he doesn't want the IG, he want's Kan's New Model Army...

tneva82 wrote:
You aren't even trying ty pretend for honest arqument. Open bad faith trolling.
- No reason to keep this here, unless people want to use it for something... 
   
Made in de
Ladies Love the Vibro-Cannon Operator






Hamburg

 Dysartes wrote:
...and I'd say "Nuts & Bolts" is where this would be more appropriate.

Is this what you mean: referring to the detailed practical aspects of it rather than abstract ideas about it.

But I think the opportunity to prevent an exodus has already passed.

Would be very sad for this site.

Former moderator 40kOnline

Lanchester's square law - please obey in list building!

Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a "" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."

Armies: Eldar, Necrons, Blood Angels, Grey Knights; World Eaters (30k); Bloodbound; Cryx, Circle, Cyriss 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Having a dedicated thread would be nice. Competitive seems to have grown a lot over the past few years and there is certainly plenty of general competitive info to talk about that's neither faction-specific nor event-specific.

Reddit's format doesn't produce the same kind of discussion as a traditional message board, so I think there would be some value in this.
   
Made in ca
Commander of the Mysterious 2nd Legion





 techsoldaten wrote:
All for it.

But I think the opportunity to prevent an exodus has already passed.


internet forums are just less popular with the younger crowd, and TBH the community here isn't very good at enchouraging those younger new players when they do come (the number of times people have posted "hi I'm new tell me about..." only to have the regular negative nancies come in and rain all over their parade.. and I've lost track of)

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in de
Ladies Love the Vibro-Cannon Operator






Hamburg

BrianDavion wrote:
 techsoldaten wrote:
All for it.

But I think the opportunity to prevent an exodus has already passed.


internet forums are just less popular with the younger crowd, and TBH the community here isn't very good at enchouraging those younger new players when they do come (the number of times people have posted "hi I'm new tell me about..." only to have the regular negative nancies come in and rain all over their parade.. and I've lost track of)

Indeed, blogs sometimes look fresher and the communication is more direct and less complicated.

Former moderator 40kOnline

Lanchester's square law - please obey in list building!

Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a "" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."

Armies: Eldar, Necrons, Blood Angels, Grey Knights; World Eaters (30k); Bloodbound; Cryx, Circle, Cyriss 
   
Made in gb
Lord of the Fleet






London

I won't lie, I do think the site has become more stagnant compared to when I joined ages ago. Used to love seeing the homebrew units on Proposed Rules, now it just seems to be the same handful of discussions resurrected. YMDC just went down the crapper alltogether.

Would be nice to see a competitive 40k subforum.
   
Made in de
Ladies Love the Vibro-Cannon Operator






Hamburg

 Valkyrie wrote:
I won't lie, I do think the site has become more stagnant compared to when I joined ages ago. Used to love seeing the homebrew units on Proposed Rules, now it just seems to be the same handful of discussions resurrected. YMDC just went down the crapper alltogether.

Would be nice to see a competitive 40k subforum.

Moreover, army lists and their discussion has come to a bottom line.

Former moderator 40kOnline

Lanchester's square law - please obey in list building!

Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a "" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."

Armies: Eldar, Necrons, Blood Angels, Grey Knights; World Eaters (30k); Bloodbound; Cryx, Circle, Cyriss 
   
Made in us
Never Forget Isstvan!






Mostly because the guys here have seen it all done it all.

Any new stuff is mostly discussed in the Tactics forum.

JOIN MY CRUSADE and gain 4000 RT points!
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Made in dk
Loyal Necron Lychguard






The tactics and list sections already exist. The suggestion seems totally unnecessary to me. What content on WarhammerCompetitive cannot be covered in these two forums? People that get a little too gossipy in the tactics threads just need to be criticized to make room for more competitive tactics.

Why aren't you writing articles here on Dakka? I cleaned up the article section during 8th and wrote an article, I don't really feel like doing it for 9th again I doubt anyone has written any great Dakka articles for 9th. A comprehensive guide for Command Protocols might be nice to be able to chuck at new Necron players.

I know that there are tournament players that use Dakka, but it has a bad reputation as being full of people with silly takes and without a way to up/downvote tactics it's hard to see who's more likely to be right between someone claiming Dark Angels to be OP and another claiming Dark Eldar to be OP.

The decision to cover multiple game systems on one subreddit seems silly to me, I downvoted every AOS thread when I used the sub. At least I don't have to be reminded about GW abusing the corpse of a game I loved every time I come here.
   
Made in gb
Executing Exarch





London, UK

Tactics generally covers competitive gaming so I am not sure it is necessary to have an area to itself. It would be good to find things in a centralised place, as individual tactics threads can get a bit chatty at times.

Would be for it if there was a way to merge tournament discussions though as there is an avenue for general competitive gaming chat that can be missed.

   
Made in ca
Gargantuan Gargant






I also think that you have to factor that I think it's fine if this site isn't necessarily a "one size fits all" when it comes to a competitive overview. Just by virtue of its forum set up, it's not as intuitive to navigate compared to a blog or other format that covers the most recent updates for competitive changes. A lot of forum members also come and go over time depending on how engaged they are in the hobby, so a lot of people who set up the initial pages for these kinds of overview pages can suddenly disappear and barring mods getting involved, other members would have to coordinate who is up to take up the mantle of these making new large competitive posts or articles to replace these.
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut





 vict0988 wrote:


Why aren't you writing articles here on Dakka?


Good question.

I have some ideas; maybe I'll give it a shot.

I come to general all the time because it's so busy and lively, but I often get a tad discouraged because a lot of Dakkanaughts are concerned about the state of the game right now, and sometimes those concerns, even when they're legit, can sound pretty negative. A perusal of other stuff on the forum at large might be just what I need.
   
Made in ca
Nihilistic Necron Lord




The best State-Texas

 techsoldaten wrote:
All for it.

But I think the opportunity to prevent an exodus has already passed.


It seems like the vast majority of fruitful discussion has moved to places like Discord as well. A lot of folks that I know that used to Haunt Dakka primarily use discord now (Including myself)

4000+
6000+ Order. Unity. Obedience.
Thousand Sons 4000+
:Necron: Necron Discord: https://discord.com/invite/AGtpeD4  
   
Made in ru
Daemonic Dreadnought





Eye of Terror

BrianDavion wrote:
 techsoldaten wrote:
All for it.

But I think the opportunity to prevent an exodus has already passed.


internet forums are just less popular with the younger crowd, and TBH the community here isn't very good at enchouraging those younger new players when they do come (the number of times people have posted "hi I'm new tell me about..." only to have the regular negative nancies come in and rain all over their parade.. and I've lost track of)


Wonder if it's a matter of format or visibility.

A lot of players near me connect on Facebook, Instagram, Discord. They don't necessarily know DakkaDakka exists, and it feels like they don't leave their social media sphere unless they have to.

   
Made in us
Stealthy Warhound Titan Princeps






 vict0988 wrote:
The tactics and list sections already exist. The suggestion seems totally unnecessary to me. What content on WarhammerCompetitive cannot be covered in these two forums? People that get a little too gossipy in the tactics threads just need to be criticized to make room for more competitive tactics.

Why aren't you writing articles here on Dakka? I cleaned up the article section during 8th and wrote an article, I don't really feel like doing it for 9th again I doubt anyone has written any great Dakka articles for 9th. A comprehensive guide for Command Protocols might be nice to be able to chuck at new Necron players.

I know that there are tournament players that use Dakka, but it has a bad reputation as being full of people with silly takes and without a way to up/downvote tactics it's hard to see who's more likely to be right between someone claiming Dark Angels to be OP and another claiming Dark Eldar to be OP.

The decision to cover multiple game systems on one subreddit seems silly to me, I downvoted every AOS thread when I used the sub. At least I don't have to be reminded about GW abusing the corpse of a game I loved every time I come here.


This is not a joke in any way. The Dakkadakka articles section/system is not defunct/mostly archival? The last time I snooped around in there it seemed like a lot of 4e/5e stuff and I never looked at it again.

I'm on a podcast about (video) game design:
https://anchor.fm/makethatgame

And I also stream tabletop painting/playing Mon&Thurs 8PM EST
https://twitch.tv/tableitgaming
And make YouTube videos for that sometimes!
https://www.youtube.com/@tableitgaming 
   
Made in de
Battlefield Tourist






Nuremberg

Fora are not really that popular with younger internet users, none of my students would use a forum like this to discuss stuff, they'll use reddit or discord chat rooms.

I prefer fora because you develop more of a relationship with other posters over time, and there's not really any systems trying to push certain posts at you (like most warhammer subs are just a bunch of really nicely painted miniatures) and reinforcing groupthink.

But I'd be fine with a competitive forum. I check the tournament discussions forum sometimes, though I rarely post.

   
Made in dk
Loyal Necron Lychguard






Yeah, the good news is that nobody will read it so you can practice writing articles and guides. The 9th edition 1d4chan Necrons article has probably subjected a thousand unique visitors to the writings of someone terrible at 40k and at writing.

You can link people to your article or quote it when relevant. Writing can also be used as a way of thinking and learning.
   
Made in au
Longtime Dakkanaut





IMO GW should create a competitive version of 40k with a range of discrete pre-set lists that have been playtested exhaustively.

Competitive should be restricted to truly balanced forces, and everyone else can play with the game and all the different components.

Rather than combining both and making neither happy.

   
Made in de
Contagious Dreadnought of Nurgle





We already have a tournament discussions and a tactics forum that mostly revolves around tournament play (that's why there's little useful information in there for me). If anything dakka could need a Warhammer narrative section.
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka




NE Ohio, USA

 Hellebore wrote:
IMO GW should create a competitive version of 40k with a range of discrete pre-set lists that have been playtested exhaustively.


1) If I ever want that I'll just play chess.
2) Considering that an edition only lasts 2-4 years, not all the factions are updated on day #1, & that they add new stuff throughout the edition....
When is this exhaustive playtesting supposed to occur?

 Hellebore wrote:
Competitive should be restricted to truly balanced forces
,

Given that you're talking about a GW game, specifically 40k, what in the 9 Hells would that even be?
*Ok, MAYBE their LoTR game. I've never heard anything negative about it, but I've also got zero experience with it....


 Hellebore wrote:
and everyone else can play with the game and all the different components.


Yeah, we can (and do) already do that.


 Hellebore wrote:
Rather than combining both and making neither happy.


There's some annoyance at times, but really, aside from waiting on Codex:____ to finally arrive those of us not concerned with tourney play are generally happy enough.
You just don't hear about it very often. And when you do you all just kinda dismiss it because it doesn't have anything to do with the tourneys & math/theory-hammer you all concentrate on.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/12/08 06:01:58


 
   
Made in dk
Loyal Necron Lychguard






 Hellebore wrote:
IMO GW should create a competitive version of 40k with a range of discrete pre-set lists that have been playtested exhaustively.

Competitive should be restricted to truly balanced forces, and everyone else can play with the game and all the different components.

Rather than combining both and making neither happy.

That removes the point, finding what s broken and useless to improve casual balance. Bad balance has a negative impact on casual games. Look at all the silly people claiming Drukhari were balanced, competitive stats proved that untrue. You'd have to freeze the game to create your new format.
   
Made in it
Waaagh! Ork Warboss




Italy

I don't think a thread about competitive gaming would serve some purpose to be honest, as pretty much all the current threads are already about competitive gaming.

 
   
Made in de
Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk






The reason why reddit is soaring and dakka is not that they are talking about competitive gaming.

It's the ability to downvote nonsense posts and toxic attitudes, and upvoting helpful and friendly posts. This causes the community to be much friendlier with much better content.

On reddit quality posting matters, on dakka all that matters is quantity.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/12/08 08:13:47


7 Ork facts people always get wrong:
Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other.
A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot.
Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests.
Orks do not think that purple makes them harder to see. They do think that camouflage does however, without knowing why.
Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor.
Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers.
Orks do not have the power of believe. 
   
Made in de
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Hellebore wrote:
IMO GW should create a competitive version of 40k with a range of discrete pre-set lists that have been playtested exhaustively.


They do that (admittedly with the AoS Range, not the 40K Range). It's called Warhammer Underworlds.

Set warbands. Much shorter games on a smaller board that is ideal for streaming / e-sport formats. Rotating card decks inspired by MtG & co. Hex movement to avoid 40K-style ambiguities. Etc., etc.., etc.
   
Made in no
Boom! Leman Russ Commander






Oslo Norway

The reason for dakka languishing is the general death of forums, and the fact that dakka does not do mobile browsing well IMO

   
Made in de
Ladies Love the Vibro-Cannon Operator






Hamburg

 Illumini wrote:
The reason for dakka languishing is the general death of forums, and the fact that Dakka does not do mobile browsing well IMO

Mobile version seems crap, isn't it?

I've seen an exodus at 40kOnline around 2007 and my feelings are that Dakka may face the same fate.

For instance, look at the BA thread in the tactics forum (as some here pinpoint to the tactical board).
The last entry is from 9/9/2021 and the entries before are sparse.
The GT winning list below from 8/28/2021 has not even been mentioned.

Spoiler:

1st Place

Junior Aflleje - Hammer of Wrath



++ Patrol Detachment 0CP (Imperium - Adeptus Astartes - Blood Angels) [65 PL, 1,007pts, 12CP] ++

+ Configuration +

**Chapter Selector**: Blood Angels

Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)

Detachment Command Cost

+ No Force Org Slot +

Company Veterans [3 PL, 54pts]
. Company Veteran: Lightning Claw, Storm shield
. Company Veteran Sergeant: Lightning Claw, Storm shield

+ HQ +

Captain on Bike [8 PL, 145pts]: Astartes Chainsword, Chapter Command: Chapter Master, Inferno pistol, Rites of War, Teeth of Terra, Warlord

+ Troops +

Infiltrator Squad [6 PL, 120pts]
. 4x Infiltrator: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Marksman bolt carbine
. Infiltrator Sergeant

+ Elites +

Sanguinary Guard [17 PL, 224pts]
. Sanguinary Guard: Angelus boltgun, Encarmine axe
. Sanguinary Guard: Angelus boltgun, Encarmine axe
. Sanguinary Guard: Angelus boltgun, Encarmine axe
. Sanguinary Guard: Angelus boltgun, Encarmine axe
. Sanguinary Guard: Angelus boltgun, Encarmine axe
. Sanguinary Guard: Angelus boltgun, Encarmine axe
. Sanguinary Guard: Angelus boltgun, Encarmine axe

Sanguinary Guard [17 PL, 224pts]
. Sanguinary Guard: Angelus boltgun, Encarmine axe
. Sanguinary Guard: Angelus boltgun, Encarmine axe
. Sanguinary Guard: Angelus boltgun, Encarmine axe
. Sanguinary Guard: Angelus boltgun, Encarmine axe
. Sanguinary Guard: Angelus boltgun, Encarmine axe
. Sanguinary Guard: Angelus boltgun, Encarmine axe
. Sanguinary Guard: Angelus boltgun, Encarmine axe

+ Fast Attack +

Inceptor Squad [14 PL, 240pts]: 3x Inceptor, Inceptor Sergeant, Plasma Exterminator x2

++ Vanguard Detachment -3CP (Imperium - Adeptus Astartes - Blood Angels) [49 PL, 990pts, -8CP] ++

+ Configuration +

**Chapter Selector**: Blood Angels

Detachment Command Cost [-3CP]

+ Stratagems +

Relics of the Chapter [-2CP]: 2x Number of Extra Relics

+ HQ +

Primaris Chaplain on Bike [7 PL, 140pts]: 2. Catechism of Fire, 4. Mantra of Strength, Benediction of Fury, Chapter Command: Master of Sanctity, Litany of Hate

Sanguinary Priest [7 PL, 155pts, -1CP]: Astartes Chainsword, Bolt pistol, Chapter Command: Chief Apothecary, Icon of The Angel, Jump Pack, Selfless Healer, Stratagem: Hero of the Chapter

+ Elites +

Bladeguard Veteran Squad [5 PL, 105pts]
. 2x Bladeguard Veteran: 2x Frag & Krak grenades, 2x Heavy Bolt Pistol, 2x Master-crafted power sword, 2x Storm Shield
. Bladeguard Veteran Sergeant: Heavy Bolt Pistol

Relic Contemptor Dreadnought [8 PL, 150pts, -1CP]: 2x Twin volkite culverin

Relic Contemptor Dreadnought [8 PL, 150pts, -1CP]: 2x Twin volkite culverin

+ Heavy Support +

Eradicator Squad [7 PL, 155pts]: Heavy melta rifle
. Eradicator
. Eradicator Sgt
. Eradicator with MM: Multi-melta

Whirlwind [7 PL, 135pts]: Hunter-killer missile, Storm bolter, Whirlwind castellan launcher

++ Total: [114 PL, 1,997pts, 4CP] ++

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/12/08 13:09:13


Former moderator 40kOnline

Lanchester's square law - please obey in list building!

Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a "" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."

Armies: Eldar, Necrons, Blood Angels, Grey Knights; World Eaters (30k); Bloodbound; Cryx, Circle, Cyriss 
   
Made in dk
Loyal Necron Lychguard






Half of text on Dakka is smaller when on mobile, I think it might be something related to other mobile users.
   
Made in it
Waaagh! Ork Warboss




Italy

 wuestenfux wrote:


For instance, look at the BA thread in the tactics forum (as some here pinpoint to the tactical board).
The last entry is from 9/9/2021 and the entries before are sparse.
The GT winning list below from 8/28/2021 has not even been mentioned.


On the other hand we have threads like the ork in which everything about competitive gaming is discussed, typically even too much and repeating the same stuff since the thread is already huge and new posters simply won't read all the previous pages but ask things that have been already discussed to the death.

Maybe very few posters care about BA or maybe they're the typical SM army that doesn't require much skills to be played, hence there's no real need to discuss the faction's tactics in detail.

 
   
 
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