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Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Just seen the new sons of fulgrim battle box and it looks to me like the 2 previous get started CSM boxes and the noise marine upgrade pack.

So I’m wondering (getting my hopes up) that GW is having a clear out of stock because A) we know there’s new releases coming out in 2022 for CSM that may replace these models and B) new noise marines and C) maybe (but probably not) emperors children codex

Also I think it’s a bit of a hasty attempt to shift the noise marine upgrade packs cos they haven’t even bothered to paint up some sons of fulgrim models, all the marketing pics are black legion

What do you reckon?
   
Made in gb
Preparing the Invasion of Terra






Well there was a Deathwatch and GSC one last week under the header "Old Foes", it's just another one of those considering it's paired with an Iron Hands bundle.
Here's the first part of the product description:
Relive the ancient rivalry between the Iron Hands and Emperor's Children – whose Primarchs fought to the death on Istvaan V at the outset of the Horus Heresy – with this Old Foes bundle, based on the two factions as they are in the 41st Millennium.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/12/07 11:21:12


 
   
Made in gb
Moustache-twirling Princeps




United Kingdom

This is the 3rd or 4th wave of these 1-click 0-saving bundles - they're just trying to tempt people.
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka







I'm more confused about the Iron Hands getting a Phobos-themed bundle - not where my mind immediately goes when I think Iron Hands, I'll be honest.

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 Kanluwen wrote:
This is, emphatically, why I will continue suggesting nuking Guard and starting over again. It's a legacy army that needs to be rebooted with a new focal point.

Confirmation of why no-one should listen to Kanluwen when it comes to the IG - he doesn't want the IG, he want's Kan's New Model Army...

tneva82 wrote:
You aren't even trying ty pretend for honest arqument. Open bad faith trolling.
- No reason to keep this here, unless people want to use it for something... 
   
Made in gb
Moustache-twirling Princeps




United Kingdom

 Dysartes wrote:
I'm more confused about the Iron Hands getting a Phobos-themed bundle - not where my mind immediately goes when I think Iron Hands, I'll be honest.
Because it's based around the 'Combat Patrol: Space Marines' box - Raven Guard would have been a better choice.
   
Made in gb
Preparing the Invasion of Terra






Yeah but then it's not "Old Foes" then is it.
   
Made in gb
Moustache-twirling Princeps




United Kingdom

 Gert wrote:
Yeah but then it's not "Old Foes" then is it.
True
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

More funny is the pictures used are Ultramarines and Black Legion.

Worse is the inclusion of the Noise Marine bits for a kit that doesn't work with them.

Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





 H.B.M.C. wrote:
More funny is the pictures used are Ultramarines and Black Legion.

Worse is the inclusion of the Noise Marine bits for a kit that doesn't work with them.


I was wondering that. The look like they would fit the old marine tactical squad
   
Made in gb
Preparing the Invasion of Terra






 H.B.M.C. wrote:
More funny is the pictures used are Ultramarines and Black Legion.

Worse is the inclusion of the Noise Marine bits for a kit that doesn't work with them.

The upgrade pack works fine, it needs a minimal amount of trim on some of the parts (although that may have been because mine were rescues). I have a full 10 man squad kitted out to make them stand out from my regular Black Legion Marines who are all short stacks. The only issue is that it's Finecast and unpainted it looks naff but slap some colour on those bad boys and it's wub-wub time.
As for the pics, it's the basic product pics, not sure why it's relevant.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/12/07 12:39:58


 
   
Made in de
Huge Bone Giant






mrFickle wrote:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
More funny is the pictures used are Ultramarines and Black Legion.

Worse is the inclusion of the Noise Marine bits for a kit that doesn't work with them.


I was wondering that. The look like they would fit the old marine tactical squad


They would. They were made for 3rd ed Chaos Marines, so they share the proportions of the 3rd ed and onwards Marines. I think the 7th ed Tacticals have a flipped peg and hole system compared to the older bits, so the chest might have to be glued on without the position help. Should line up though, if the cast isn't bad.

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Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





It just seems an odd choice considering the lack of investment in the emperors children, why not just go with black legion or just CSM
   
Made in gb
Preparing the Invasion of Terra






Because, again, it's "Old Foes".
The Black Legion and Iron Hands are not "Old Foes". Random CSM Warband and the Iron Hands are not "Old Foes".
The Emperor's Children and the Iron Hands are "Old Foes".
These bundles aren't "Most Competetive Choices" or "Flavour of the Month Army", they're themed around groups that have famous battles, rivalries or enmities associated with them. In future it there will likely be others such as Space Wolves and Thousand Sons, Iyanden and Kraken, T'au and Raven Guard/White Scars.
Not sure why this is a difficult concept to grasp.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





If you go back far enough isn’t every loyalist legion an old foe of every traitor legion. Especially the ultramarines
   
Made in gb
Preparing the Invasion of Terra






Again, you're missing the point. The last bundles were Deathwatch and Genestealer Cults because both armies were brought into 40k through the board game Deathwatch: Overkill, the story of which was centered around the uprising on Ghosar Quintus.
This time it's Emperors Children and Iron Hands because Fulgrim killed Ferrus Manus on Isstvan V and the Iron Hands were massacred. Every Legion has its sworn nemesis on each side that did more than every other Legion to earn that title. When people ask "Who do the Iron Hands hate the most?", the answer is the Emperors Children.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/12/07 13:13:16


 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Biloxi, MS USA

 Gert wrote:
Again, you're missing the point. The last bundles were Deathwatch and Genestealer Cults because both armies were brought into 40k through the board game Deathwatch: Overkill, the story of which was centered around the uprising on Ghosar Quintus.
This time it's Emperors Children and Iron Hands because Fulgrim killed Ferrus Manus on Isstvan V and the Iron Hands were massacred. Every Legion has its sworn nemesis on each side that did more than every other Legion to earn that title. When people ask "Who do the Iron Hands hate the most?", the answer is the Emperors Children.


And the first set was Ultramarines and Death Guard which are only "old foes" because Dark Imperium boxset. From the outset, the theme was strained.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/12/07 13:23:56


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Made in gb
Preparing the Invasion of Terra






 Platuan4th wrote:
And the first set was Ultramarines and Death Guard which are only "old foes" because Dark Imperium boxset. From the outset, the theme was strained.

The first was Space Marines and Necrons actually. Then it was Death Guard and Admech to tie in with Charadon, then Wolves and Orks because of Saga of the Beast.
For the first one, GW went with the Indomitus angle but could easily have made it Damnos instead (missed opportunity IMO). DG and Admech, yes it's weird and it was clearly just for Charadon. Orks and Wolves are, thin but Saga was released a while ago now and there's no shortage of conflicts between the Wolves and Orks, Armageddon would be a good example.
That all being said, this and the last set of bundles have much better reasons for being "Old Foes" bundles, so why the complaining? GW is actually using the narrative for once.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/12/07 13:32:31


 
   
Made in gb
Gore-Drenched Khorne Chaos Lord




 Gert wrote:
 Platuan4th wrote:
And the first set was Ultramarines and Death Guard which are only "old foes" because Dark Imperium boxset. From the outset, the theme was strained.

The first was Space Marines and Necrons actually. Then it was Death Guard and Admech to tie in with Charadon, then Wolves and Orks because of Saga of the Beast.
For the first one, GW went with the Indomitus angle but could easily have made it Damnos instead (missed opportunity IMO). DG and Admech, yes it's weird and it was clearly just for Charadon. Orks and Wolves are, thin but Saga was released a while ago now and there's no shortage of conflicts between the Wolves and Orks, Armageddon would be a good example.
That all being said, this and the last set of bundles have much better reasons for being "Old Foes" bundles, so why the complaining? GW is actually using the narrative for once.


Because if they swapped out the awkward noise marine upgrades, shuffled it to fit in some raptors and slapped "old foes nightlords vs raven guard" on them the models included make more sense? It's an utterly odd set of models and legions to pick given what they're selling.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/12/07 13:45:52


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





I did miss the point becuse I just looked at the picture and assumed the the space marines were ultramarines
   
Made in gb
Gore-Drenched Khorne Chaos Lord




mrFickle wrote:
I did miss the point becuse I just looked at the picture and assumed the the space marines were ultramarines


Lazy stock photo sadly
   
Made in gb
Preparing the Invasion of Terra






Dudeface wrote:
Because if they swapped out the awkward noise marine upgrades, shuffled it to fit in some raptors and slapped "old foes nightlords vs raven guard" on them the models included make more sense? It's an utterly odd set of models and legions to pick given what they're selling.

The NM Upgrades are awkward in that you need Super Glue to use them, that's it.
What's being sold is a Space Marine and Chaos Space Marine army that have been given a theme of "Old Foes". There are upgrade kits associated with both the Iron Hands and Emperor's Children so these have been thrown in and the theme has been decided. The contents need to have the SC/CP boxes for each faction which just so happens to include Phobos Marines for the IH.
Is it optimised to each faction's strengths? No. Is it a collection of units and upgrades that give you a quick and dirty army of each faction that are paired together with some narrative string? Yes.
As a side, the RG and NL were mirrors of each other but not "Old Foes" as it was. The RG would be more suited to the AL (because of the aftermath of Isstvan and the sabotage of Corax's rebuilding efforts) and the NL to the DA (because of Thramas).
The only complaint that actually seems to be here is that GW chose factions A and B over X and Y, is that it?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/12/07 14:05:41


 
   
Made in gb
Gore-Drenched Khorne Chaos Lord




 Gert wrote:
Dudeface wrote:
Because if they swapped out the awkward noise marine upgrades, shuffled it to fit in some raptors and slapped "old foes nightlords vs raven guard" on them the models included make more sense? It's an utterly odd set of models and legions to pick given what they're selling.

The NM Upgrades are awkward in that you need Super Glue to use them, that's it.
What's being sold is a Space Marine and Chaos Space Marine army that have been given a theme of "Old Foes". There are upgrade kits associated with both the Iron Hands and Emperor's Children so these have been thrown in and the theme has been decided. The contents need to have the SC/CP boxes for each faction which just so happens to include Phobos Marines for the IH.
Is it optimised to each faction's strengths? No. Is it a collection of units and upgrades that give you a quick and dirty army of each faction that are paired together with some narrative string? Yes.
As a side, the RG and NL were mirrors of each other but not "Old Foes" as it was. The RG would be more suited to the AL (because of the aftermath of Isstvan and the sabotage of Corax's rebuilding efforts) and the NL to the DA (because of Thramas).
The only complaint that actually seems to be here is that GW chose factions A and B over X and Y, is that it?


No the argument is the lazy stock photos that don't match up to the names and the half baked choice of faction that have no theme.

Hive fleet Kronos for example is a psychically charged fleet designed to kill chaos with a preference of psykers and ranged units - imagine old foes Kronos vs Daemons coming out where the nid half is all genestealers, lictors and gaunts with a token broodlord (again). Does that sound like the boot fits?

What about that marine force says iron hands? What about that chaos force says emperors children?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/12/07 14:11:45


 
   
Made in gb
Preparing the Invasion of Terra






The upgrade packs. Oh yeah and the special character and Ironclad for the IH.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/12/07 14:15:13


 
   
Made in gb
Gore-Drenched Khorne Chaos Lord




 Gert wrote:
The upgrade packs. Oh yeah and the special character and Ironclad for the IH.


Special character, yes that works, ironhands do like a dreadnought. It helps accompany their renown stealthy infiltrating troops work behind enemy lines. Those same stealthy monopose troops who can't have the shoulder pads put on them iirc.

For chaos if you take out the sonic weapons it could be nearly any legion in there, telling they didn't include a lucius to make it more of an even match up.
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

Gert seems really invested in these no-discount rando bundles.

And I'll take scotsman's word on the Noise Marine kits and how they don't work with a kit they weren't designed for.

Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




They seem to have shoehorned these bundles in with the vaguest of themes. I really don’t see why anyone who even plays or is interested in these factions would get these as the content is very questionable. The Chaos one would make more sense for Word Bearers and the SM is literally any other chapter than Iron Hands.
   
Made in de
Longtime Dakkanaut





Look like shelf clearers to me. A weird assortment of units and apparently even compatibility issues – that's a new low.
   
Made in pl
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Dysartes wrote:
I'm more confused about the Iron Hands getting a Phobos-themed bundle - not where my mind immediately goes when I think Iron Hands, I'll be honest.

Why? IH have initiates, too, and putting them in Phobos makes vastly more sense than old naked scouts. If anything, Phobos are perfect for IH seeing they have all the fancy scopes, targeters and detection gear, all of which are 100% IH look.

 Gert wrote:
The upgrade pack works fine, it needs a minimal amount of trim on some of the parts

Shh, we don't do that here. Didn't you get the memo? New GW models are TOTALLY MONOPOSE if it has tiniest guiding spike, even if you can freely rotate the head/arm/torso/whatever after slicing it off. It has been straw-marined so many times on Dakka it must be true

 Geifer wrote:
They would. They were made for 3rd ed Chaos Marines, so they share the proportions of the 3rd ed and onwards Marines. I think the 7th ed Tacticals have a flipped peg and hole system compared to the older bits, so the chest might have to be glued on without the position help. Should line up though, if the cast isn't bad.

It lines up just fine, I recently glued spare old CSM chest on most recent tactical body, had to file peg slightly (an impossible conversion for some here, apparently ) but end result looks well. The only slight mismatch is in the bottom waist slot where you glue legs in anyway.
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




I had heard the latest rumors were for Emperor's Children and World Eaters solo books next year, along with the vanilla CSM book. We'd then have one codex for each mono-god CSM, which would be rad
   
Made in us
Warp-Screaming Noise Marine




I still feel like those noise marine conversion kits should be given away at this point. They charge too much to upgrade 2 chaos space marines to noise marines in cosmetics and wargear...

Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. -Kurt Vonnegut 
   
 
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