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Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




I'm returning to 40k after about 15 years or so to build a small Chaos army for occasional few-hour casual battles on the weekends. I played Eldar in 3rd/4th edition (sold models a long time ago), and coming back, I have an interest in a different play style, but holy moly has this game changed...

I bought models for a 1,000 pt list and have most of the army put together now, and I need advice on two possible 1,000 point lists I could make from the models I bought. Not super interested in completely switching for new models at this point, would like to work with what I have if either of these lists seem reasonable, but I'm open to suggestions.

I do like playing models that I find cool looking, so the lists are largely based off that. I realize the Changeling seems out of place and I have to take a separate detachment, but I couldn’t pass this model up and it works so well with a defiler and horrors. Also I realize chaos marine troops aren’t that great in this edition but I’m ok with that, as I don’t care for the cultist models much. I am aware of potential new chaos in the future but it would be great to get some battles in before a next codex. These lists were created with the help of some pointers from a local shop employee who played chaos for over 20yrs (and who advocates for rhinos for board control/mobility).

I'm looking for advice on which list is going to be more effective on average against a variety of opponents, and why, as well as relatively small changes you would make.
So here it goes:

~~~~~~~List #1 – 999pts~~~~~~~
Patrol Detachment: Chaos Space Marines – Alpha Legion
H Q
-[200pts] Daemon Prince (Slaanesh) – Dual Talons, Wings, Warp Time, Intoxicating Elixer, Warlord, Master of Diversion
Troops
-[80pts] 4xChaos Marines, 1x Aspiring Champion (Slaanesh) – Boltguns, 1xAutocannon
(can reposition with Master of Diversion)
Elites
-[92pts] 4xChosen, 1xChosen Champion (Slaanesh) – 4xAstartes Chainswords, 4xCombi-bolters, 1xHeavy Bolter (will use chaos marine models as counts-as chosen)
(can reposition with Master of Diversion)
Heavy Support
-[135pts] 4xHavocs, 1xAspiring Champion (Slaanesh) – 2xAutocannons, 2xLascannons (will use endless cacophony, can reposition with Master of Diversion)
-[140pts] 1xDefiler (Tzeentch for Locus of Transmogrification benefits) - Reaper Autocannon, Battle Cannon, Defiler Scourge
Dedicated Transport
-[85pts] Rhino – 2xCombi Bolters (Chosen squad ride in this)

Patrol Detachment: Chaos Daemons – Undivided
H Q
-[105pts] Changeling (for Locus of Transmogrification on Defiler and/or horrors) – Gaze of Fate
Troops
-[105pts] 9xBloodletters, 1xBloodreaper, Daemonic Icon, Banner of Blood, Instrument of Chaos (will use Denizens of the Warp for mini bloodletter bomb)
-[57pts] 9xBrimstone Horrors, 1x Blue Horror, 1xBrimstone Horror in reserve (split from blue)

~~~~~~~List #2 – 1,000pts~~~~~~~
Patrol Detachment: Chaos Space Marines – Alpha Legion
H Q
-[200pts] Daemon Prince (Slaanesh) – Dual Talons, Wings, Warp Time, Intoxicating Elixer, Warlord, Master of Diversion
Troops
-[80pts] 4xChaos Marines, 1x Aspiring Champion (Slaanesh) – Chainswords/bolt pistols, 1xHeavy Bolter
-[80pts] 4xChaos Marines, 1x Aspiring Champion (Slaanesh) – Boltguns, 1xAutocannon
(can reposition with Master of Diversion)
Heavy Support
-[135pts] 4xHavocs, 1xAspiring Champion (Slaanesh) – 2xAutocannons, 2xLascannons (will use endless cacophony, can reposition with Master of Diversion)
-[140pts] 1xDefiler (Tzeentch for Locus of Transmogrification benefits) - Reaper Autocannon, Battle Cannon, Defiler Scourge
Dedicated Transport
-[80pts] Rhino – Combi-bolters
-[85pts] Rhino – Combi-bolters, Havoc Launcher

Patrol Detachment: Chaos Daemons – Undivided
H Q
-[105pts] Changeling (for Locus of Transmogrification on Defiler) – Gaze of Fate
Troops
-[95pts] 9xBloodletters, 1xBloodreaper, Daemonic Icon, Banner of Blood (will use Denizens of the Warp for mini bloodletter bomb)

Main difference between the two list is List #1 has a little more anti-horde with the shooty Chosen, and some cool opportunities to grab objectives and protect the Changeling with the horrors. List #2 has no horrors, no chosen, but an extra obsec Marine squad and an extra Rhino.

Thanks for any advice!

   
Made in gb
Battleship Captain




My gut reflex is the force with more objective secured mechanised troops.

Yes, no horrors but they're only brimstone horrors and brimstone horrors are....uh.....well, they're kind of awful. I mean, they're only really there to sit on an objective, so fine, but they can't even lob the odd bolter volley downrange.

I'm not sold on pairing chainswords and a heavy weapon. The ability to swap bolters out for astartes chainswords is something that chaos marines share with Black Templars and Primaris and puts their ability to stab things well ahead of loyalist firstborn, especially with new improved Death To The False Emperor.

I'd probably rather pack an assault weapon or even a plasma pistol.

Termagants expended for the Hive Mind: ~2835
 
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




Awesome, thanks locarno24. I missed that detail about the Astartes Chainswords. I'll replace heavy bolter with plasma and keep the second obsec marines squad and rhino.

Quick note to validate your recommendation against the horrors...with the defiler/changeling combo, I'll kind of be charging forward to put the pressure on while I harass with the prince on another flank, as I plan to play this list somewhat aggressively. So in retrospect the small group of horrors wouldn't be sitting on an objective anyway, so good advice in getting rid of them.

Do you think there's any reason I should be taking a Hellforge Sword on the Prince instead of talons to deal with Custodes and Wraithguard/other 3-wound models? I recall hardly anything having many wounds back in the day but times have changed.

One more thing I'm concerned about is that I don't have much anti-horde in either list... I have a few hard-hitting elements that can take out big targets, but against high model count lists, will it be effective enough to set up road blocks against hordes with the Rhinos and Defiler and focus on taking out medium- to large-sized targets with my hard-hitting units? I considered flamers in one of the marine squads but they don't seem quite as effective as back when they used templates...how does Chaos usually deal against all-infantry lists while still remaining balanced?

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2021/12/08 21:03:26


 
   
Made in gb
Battleship Captain




abaumann wrote:

Do you think there's any reason I should be taking a Hellforge Sword on the Prince instead of talons to deal with Custodes and Wraithguard/other 3-wound models? I recall hardly anything having many wounds back in the day but times have changed.

One more thing I'm concerned about is that I don't have much anti-horde in either list... I have a few hard-hitting elements that can take out big targets, but against high model count lists, will it be effective enough to set up road blocks against hordes with the Rhinos and Defiler and focus on taking out medium- to large-sized targets with my hard-hitting units? I considered flamers in one of the marine squads but they don't seem quite as effective as back when they used templates...how does Chaos usually deal against all-infantry lists while still remaining balanced?


You're welcome!

Sword versus claws.....hmm. Remember that a prince gets Hateful Assault. So that's 5 attacks on the charge with its primary weapon, and one attack with the claw (because it has sword-and-claw, or two claws, not sword or two claws). So you're only going from 6 attacks to 8, which is good but less impressive an increase than it sounds.

Damage 3 is....a nice to have. Yes, obviously if you find yourself fighting Custodes or wraithguard, great. But 3 wound models are more common than you'd think - Most marine Terminators. Gravis-armoured Primaris. Meganobz. Stuff that taking it down in one hit not two is a big deal.

Plus, it's not even just them. If you're looking at a character with 5+ wounds, you kill them in 2 failed saves not 3. Against a marine captain with a storm shield, trying to poke you with some hideous relic blade of flaming doom as you fight, that's a big deal. Plus your daemon prince is your first line unit for whomping tanks and more importantly, walkers, that get past your lascannon fire. Finally, anyone who has a -1 Damage rule - and that's increasingly a common thing! - needs a 3-damage weapon to kill a 2-wound model. death guard codex plague marines are a case in point.

As far as killing infantry hordes, chainsword wielding marines will do a pretty good job. Hateful assault and chainswords means 3 attacks per model on the charge (or when charged).

Termagants expended for the Hive Mind: ~2835
 
   
 
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