Switch Theme:

Community gate keeping for women.  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in au
Fresh-Faced New User





Hey guys I’m quite new to the whole 40k scene but after watching the hilarious Text to Speech show on YouTube last year I’ve been interested in trying out the game itself. However from a lot of groups I’ve met they’ve been maybe not hostile per day but a little gate keeping. How can I join in the fun on the hobby when I’m looked upon as not belonging? Is there anything I can do to make the community more welcoming to me?
   
Made in de
Longtime Dakkanaut





My experiences with women in the tabletop hobby:

There are two types:

1. Enjoys the hobby on her own.
2. Is the girlfriend of a guy who participates in tabletop games. Should the relation end so will her interest in the hobby.

Apart from this my local GW store manager is a woman who lives and breathes the hobby. She is very dedicated and thus managed to outshine all previous store managers in my home town who were all male. With the exception of her only very few women were regular customers in the GW store during the pre-Corona era.

A couple of years ago I frequented a youth club for 12 months to do intro games for new players. Two of them were women and both times it wasn´t 40K to be played but Blood Bowl. In my entire hobby time (25 years) I haven´t played 40K against a woman. Not because of gatekeeping but women are rare as unicorns in this hobby as they tend to prefer doing other things in their spare time.
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut





Demo games in stores are a decent place to start. If you've got more than one store to choose from, you can sus out the attitude of the staff.

If you've got good staff, you're likely to have good players.

The other advantage of a demo game is you can get a feel for which game or which force you might be interested in.

These days, I tend to favour collecting small forces of many factions- it makes it easier to play with friends, because you can supply models for people who might be curious enough to play at home, but not in stores.
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Enjoy what you enjoy and ignore anyone who isn't accepting of you.

I haven't met any such person that would gatekeep a woman out of the hobby and I would posit the average tabletop gamer is a little more socially adept than your average geek so you'll eventually come across some good people in your quest.
   
Made in gb
Preparing the Invasion of Terra






It's a hurdle that the community as a whole is struggling to get over but in some places, it is getting better. The sad fact is there is nothing you can (or indeed should have to) do to make the community you are trying to join more welcoming. Your best bet is probably just to keep going along and hopefully, people will just get used to you being there but it's no sure thing.
Good luck though, I wish you all the best in finding a group that welcomes you with open arms.
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




I would echo what Gert said, you shouldn't have to change to be accepted. I think you need to find an accepting community that'll let you be yourself.

Could you explain a little about the gatekeeping experiences you've had? If so, we might be able to offer some better advice.
   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba






I think in any setting where every member of a group is some specific category - whether that be a sex, a race, an age or any other kind of general setup - being 'the first different one' is always going to present unique challenges and engender suspicion.

I don't know the best way to get past it.

"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"

"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"

"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"

"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"  
   
Made in se
Growlin' Guntrukk Driver with Killacannon





Sweden

You could wear a fake mustache.

Brutal, but kunning!  
   
Made in us
Storm Trooper with Maglight






If possible ignore/avoid the gatekeepers and find a group more accepting of newcomers and women. If you have some friends with an interest in the game or already into it stick with them, go with garagehammer instead of playing at a store etc.

Depending on the gatekeeping involved there may be some solutions too. For example, if the issue they are having is not wanting to play smaller than 2000 points, you can always see if someone is interested in playing doubles, so you can bring what you have and they make up the remainder. It really depends on the type of gatekeeping though - a group going "ew women" will probably not change their thoughts.

If you can't find anybody locally or within an acceptable range, I hear Tabletop Simulator has a fairly active 40k community as well, though much with any community you'd have to filter out the bad actors but it does expand the pool of possible players to anybody with a computer. Vassal is also an option, though I don't think its as active as it used to be back in the day.
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

 Mistresspaige wrote:
Hey guys I’m quite new to the whole 40k scene but after watching the hilarious Text to Speech show on YouTube last year I’ve been interested in trying out the game itself. However from a lot of groups I’ve met they’ve been maybe not hostile per day but a little gate keeping. How can I join in the fun on the hobby when I’m looked upon as not belonging? Is there anything I can do to make the community more welcoming to me?


Wargame groups, whilst being a social activity, can tend to sometimes have a higher proportion of people who are less experienced at being social. So some of it isn't that they are gate-keeping because you're a woman, its just part of them not being as social as some others. They can be equally "unwelcoming" or such to men as well. It's generally not intentional and in my experience most gamer clubs are more than happy to have new people turn up. Sometimes they don't have a designated person to welcome and orientate new people into the group so there can be a bit of a tricky moment for anyone getting into a new club.

I echo what others have said above, go forth and play. Chances are once the models are down and the dice are rolling many of the insecurities will start to melt away without any great work from either side. In my experience the best way at a gamer group to break this ice is through games themselves.



Now you might bump into some issues like people wanting to play 2K point games or only play against "painted armies" and such even when you are new, that's just them, but you do no harm at all in asking around and finding games.

Gaming is a great hobby with so many different aspects to it.

A Blog in Miniature

3D Printing, hobbying and model fun! 
   
Made in us
Warp-Screaming Noise Marine




I am sorry that you experience that from the community. I sincerely wish you the best! In my experience people generally don't even understand how their behavior, sometimes with the purest intentions, can be off putting to others (although I am certain that other issues occur as well). Microaggressions such as "mansplaining" how your army works seems to be a common complaint, even when the army is sporting a relatively high quality paint job (indicating that the woman has clearly a bit of experience with the hobby). Men sometimes think this is a gentlemanly thing to do; correct them with direct, assertive, but not aggressive language.

A woman will obviously have better advice and understanding of what sort of microaggressions and implicit (or explicit) biases you have experienced, and how to correct them. The following is from my understanding as a male.

Men often need to be told in direct, firm, but arguably nonaccusatory language. "Please let me learn my army/the rules/the game for myself. I do not like it when you take time out of this game to explain to me the rules. I like making mistakes myself and learning that way," as an example.

Keep in mind that we men are generally unaware of what you experience as a woman because we are not the focus of discrimination against women. Anything I know is purely because I listen to what women say and fight that urge to explain why they are wrong and mansplain how the woman got it wrong. Your perspective may not fit their understanding and cognitive dissonance tends to make people change the facts to match their perspective, as you likely have noticed. It is entirely up to you to determine how much patience and effort you want to expend to overcome this wall you are hitting, and I bet it will be quite a challenge. This experience may be awkward for you, hopefully so it does not have to be for future women! I personally hope that if nothing else, you wedge yourself into the local community because I would love to see more gender diversity in this hobby.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Would you be willing to describe some of the behaviors that have been troubling you?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/12/08 23:47:22


Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. -Kurt Vonnegut 
   
Made in gb
Killer Klaivex




The dark behind the eyes.

Could you give an example of the gatekeeping you've experienced?

 blood reaper wrote:
I will respect human rights and trans people but I will never under any circumstances use the phrase 'folks' or 'ya'll'. I would rather be killed by firing squad.



 the_scotsman wrote:
Yeah, when i read the small novel that is the Death Guard unit options and think about resolving the attacks from a melee-oriented min size death guard squad, the thing that springs to mind is "Accessible!"

 Argive wrote:
GW seems to have a crystal ball and just pulls hairbrained ideas out of their backside for the most part.


 Andilus Greatsword wrote:

"Prepare to open fire at that towering Wraithknight!"
"ARE YOU DAFT MAN!?! YOU MIGHT HIT THE MEN WHO COME UP TO ITS ANKLES!!!"


Akiasura wrote:
I hate to sound like a serial killer, but I'll be reaching for my friend occam's razor yet again.


 insaniak wrote:

You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.

Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Ignore your gender and just get involved would be my recommendation. Doesn't matter what race/sex/gender/religion etc etc etc you are, what does matter is if you hate Space Commies and Elves. Hate is ok, but only fictionally.

 Tomsug wrote:
Semper krumps under the radar

 
   
Made in au
Fresh-Faced New User





 vipoid wrote:
Could you give an example of the gatekeeping you've experienced?


Sure Thing. One example I’ve had is treating me with kid gloves. Many think I don’t know much and need everything pointed out too me when I played. Another is they go really easy on me. Or on the other hand I’ve won a game and the guy gets upset saying he let me win or you just got lucky.

I’ve also had examples where I try to add my thoughts to a conversation and are just blatantly ignored for the other guys instead. Or that my opinions arnt worth their time.

Worse was one guy who was constantly eyeing me with anger and hostility.He never said anything straight to my face but I could tell he didn’t want me there. That I wasn’t welcome.
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Chaplain with Hate to Spare






 Mistresspaige wrote:
Hey guys I’m quite new to the whole 40k scene but after watching the hilarious Text to Speech show on YouTube last year I’ve been interested in trying out the game itself. However from a lot of groups I’ve met they’ve been maybe not hostile per day but a little gate keeping. How can I join in the fun on the hobby when I’m looked upon as not belonging? Is there anything I can do to make the community more welcoming to me?

I don't know the details of your circumstance, but maybe this can be applicable.

One of the things I've consciously done to help myself be more welcome in a community (i've change local metas a lot over my 20+ wargaming "career") is I've always shown up with painted miniatures. I think painted models can have a really big effect, because it shows a certain level of dedication to the hobby. The effect might be meta dependent, but even in a local group where people comfortably play with grey plastic, in my experience people will always acknowledge and respect a decently painted model/squad/army. As you're new, that might be a little tricky, as you might not even have experience painting models, and then you might not want to paint models if you're not sure it's a faction you want to play. . . but I'd think about it a bit.

Beyond that I'd mostly echo what's being said above, a combination of "find a group that's welcoming" and "be prepared to bear a little awkwardness while getting to know a group". Get to know them, let them get to know you, etc.

But like, if you can show off a few nicely painted models, not even a whole army, I think that can really help. And if it doesn't work, at least you got some nicely painted models out of it!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Mistresspaige wrote:
 vipoid wrote:
Could you give an example of the gatekeeping you've experienced?


Sure Thing. One example I’ve had is treating me with kid gloves. Many think I don’t know much and need everything pointed out too me when I played. Another is they go really easy on me. Or on the other hand I’ve won a game and the guy gets upset saying he let me win or you just got lucky.

I’ve also had examples where I try to add my thoughts to a conversation and are just blatantly ignored for the other guys instead. Or that my opinions arnt worth their time.

Worse was one guy who was constantly eyeing me with anger and hostility.He never said anything straight to my face but I could tell he didn’t want me there. That I wasn’t welcome.
Honestly I could chalk the first two up to awkwardness. . . but the third, I dunno. Honestly that might just pass with familiarity? I find in some situations if you can just ignore the "wierdo" while you become more familiar with the rest of a group, things can get around to a decent place. But not being there, I really don't know.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/12/09 00:57:10


And They Shall Not Fit Through Doors!!!

Tyranid Army Progress -- With Classic Warriors!:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/743240.page#9671598 
   
Made in gb
Killer Klaivex




The dark behind the eyes.

 Mistresspaige wrote:
 vipoid wrote:
Could you give an example of the gatekeeping you've experienced?


Sure Thing. One example I’ve had is treating me with kid gloves. Many think I don’t know much and need everything pointed out too me when I played. Another is they go really easy on me. Or on the other hand I’ve won a game and the guy gets upset saying he let me win or you just got lucky.

I’ve also had examples where I try to add my thoughts to a conversation and are just blatantly ignored for the other guys instead. Or that my opinions arnt worth their time.

Worse was one guy who was constantly eyeing me with anger and hostility.He never said anything straight to my face but I could tell he didn’t want me there. That I wasn’t welcome.


You mentioned that you were new so it's possible that the first two are just a consequence of that. I think a lot of players probably don't want to just stomp inexperienced players because it's a rather hollow victory and doesn't provide much opportunity for them to learn the game. Not trying to disparage your skills in any way, just saying that if I'm against a player who's indicated that they're fairly new, I'll probably want to focus a little more on trying to show them the ropes, rather than aiming to table them by turn 2.

The third is just a bad loser, though.

The other things you mentioned are definitely more unpleasant. Maybe them ignoring you could be anti-social (I know some people who don't know how to talk to others will often just try to avoid talking to them altogether, without realising that this usually comes across much worse), though it could be more malicious.

If there are some within the group who don't ignore you or treat you with hostility, you could perhaps focus on more on mingling with them and see if the others come to accept you when you've been with the group a little longer. If nothing else, this might help with members who might be struggling due to social awkwardness or miscommunicating in attempting to show you the ropes, as both of those should diminish as they get used to you and see that they don't need to treat you with kid gloves anymore as far as games go. And if any of them can honestly never accept you for no other reason than because you're a girl, then they're probably not worth getting to know anyway.

(I know some might advise just finding another group but I'm well aware that this often isn't a simple matter.)

 blood reaper wrote:
I will respect human rights and trans people but I will never under any circumstances use the phrase 'folks' or 'ya'll'. I would rather be killed by firing squad.



 the_scotsman wrote:
Yeah, when i read the small novel that is the Death Guard unit options and think about resolving the attacks from a melee-oriented min size death guard squad, the thing that springs to mind is "Accessible!"

 Argive wrote:
GW seems to have a crystal ball and just pulls hairbrained ideas out of their backside for the most part.


 Andilus Greatsword wrote:

"Prepare to open fire at that towering Wraithknight!"
"ARE YOU DAFT MAN!?! YOU MIGHT HIT THE MEN WHO COME UP TO ITS ANKLES!!!"


Akiasura wrote:
I hate to sound like a serial killer, but I'll be reaching for my friend occam's razor yet again.


 insaniak wrote:

You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.

Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
 
   
Made in us
Warp-Screaming Noise Marine




 Mistresspaige wrote:
 vipoid wrote:
Could you give an example of the gatekeeping you've experienced?


Sure Thing. One example I’ve had is treating me with kid gloves. Many think I don’t know much and need everything pointed out too me when I played. Another is they go really easy on me. Or on the other hand I’ve won a game and the guy gets upset saying he let me win or you just got lucky.

I’ve also had examples where I try to add my thoughts to a conversation and are just blatantly ignored for the other guys instead. Or that my opinions arnt worth their time.

Worse was one guy who was constantly eyeing me with anger and hostility. He never said anything straight to my face but I could tell he didn’t want me there. That I wasn’t welcome.


Unfortunately the first example is one of the most common complaints of women trying to get into the gaming community. I've heard that generally Age of Sigmar communities are a lot less like what you are experiencing, but within the 40k community it sort of is the last bastion for toxic masculinity.

My personal recommendation is definitely to communicate with whoever you feel most comfortable with about these issues. I also recommend, again, firm and direct language alerting people that you do not like playing with the kid gloves. "Please don't advise me on how to play my own army." "Please let me make my own decisions during my turn." "Please let me decide which strategems I want to use and when." "Please stop backseat gaming." Hell, if they seem to have issue with you saying this you can firmly state that you do not like it when they pull their punches and how these behaviors make you feel. You could even state that it doesn't make you feel like you belong there, when they treat you differently like that. Like I said, we men do not know what it's like to be women and we will not give you what you need unless you are direct. Most of us are not interested in placing ourselves in your shoes so you may need to be willing to do the work for us. You should not have to game in those conditions and you honestly should not even need to be having this conversation with us in the first place.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I would also like to reiterate that it is completely normal for you to feel and react the way you do. As for the creep glaring at you, I've got two suggestions. Break the ice yourself and humanize yourself to him by trying to build a friendship with him or avoid him, and voice your opinions with someone you are comfortable with to see if they can talk to him on your behalf. Regardless, I would not expect significant changes from him quickly.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/12/09 01:37:47


Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. -Kurt Vonnegut 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Strg Alt wrote:
My experiences with women in the tabletop hobby:

There are two types:

1. Enjoys the hobby on her own.
2. Is the girlfriend of a guy who participates in tabletop games. Should the relation end so will her interest in the hobby.

Apart from this my local GW store manager is a woman who lives and breathes the hobby. She is very dedicated and thus managed to outshine all previous store managers in my home town who were all male. With the exception of her only very few women were regular customers in the GW store during the pre-Corona era.

A couple of years ago I frequented a youth club for 12 months to do intro games for new players. Two of them were women and both times it wasn´t 40K to be played but Blood Bowl. In my entire hobby time (25 years) I haven´t played 40K against a woman. Not because of gatekeeping but women are rare as unicorns in this hobby as they tend to prefer doing other things in their spare time.


The reason women are rare is the gatekeeping. Heck whole society can get in on it. Used to be a time when it was asserted women just don't like DnD. Lo and behold, in the years 2021 dnd has flourished amongst female players.

But for something like warhammer, tween disdain and creeping, hard to be a lady in a game club.

Just have to get lucky I suppose that your club isn't crummy in this way.

 Overread wrote:
 Mistresspaige wrote:
Hey guys I’m quite new to the whole 40k scene but after watching the hilarious Text to Speech show on YouTube last year I’ve been interested in trying out the game itself. However from a lot of groups I’ve met they’ve been maybe not hostile per day but a little gate keeping. How can I join in the fun on the hobby when I’m looked upon as not belonging? Is there anything I can do to make the community more welcoming to me?


Wargame groups, whilst being a social activity, can tend to sometimes have a higher proportion of people who are less experienced at being social. So some of it isn't that they are gate-keeping because you're a woman, its just part of them not being as social as some others. They can be equally "unwelcoming" or such to men as well. It's generally not intentional and in my experience most gamer clubs are more than happy to have new people turn up. Sometimes they don't have a designated person to welcome and orientate new people into the group so there can be a bit of a tricky moment for anyone getting into a new club.

I echo what others have said above, go forth and play. Chances are once the models are down and the dice are rolling many of the insecurities will start to melt away without any great work from either side. In my experience the best way at a gamer group to break this ice is through games themselves.



Now you might bump into some issues like people wanting to play 2K point games or only play against "painted armies" and such even when you are new, that's just them, but you do no harm at all in asking around and finding games.

Gaming is a great hobby with so many different aspects to it.


Something I have seen a lot of ladies who have tried to get involved which, uh, no dudes have, is really awkward flirting and other types of thirsting.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
One actual answer I can think of requires a lot of space and money.

And that is build your own game room and invite people to play with you, that way you can curate who you interact with.

I been slowly building to that before my life became a daily nightmare

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/12/09 01:59:15


 
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Mistresspaige wrote:
One example I’ve had is treating me with kid gloves. Many think I don’t know much and need everything pointed out too me when I played. Another is they go really easy on me.


I think I might accidentally do this sometimes.

To be fair to myself, I think I do it to newb dudes too. It probably does feel sexist sometimes, even though I certainly don't intend it as such. Also, I'm certainly not saying it wasn't sexist when you experienced it- I wasn't there and have no idea- if that's how it felt, I take your word for it. I just know I tend to take it easy on newbs regardless of age, gender, game or army.

Fun fact: I met my wife at a games convention in 1996; we played in a Cyberpunk 2020 RPG, and later that weekend I GMed a Vampire that she played in; the last slot of the weekend I GMed Kult and she was in that one too- probably the most legendary single gaming session I've ever participated in; players were in character for four straight hours- we could have sold it as an audio book.

She was one of 3 women in attendance at the event and there were about 60-70 dudes. One of the other women was an organizer of the tourney- I forget whether she was the VP or the President of the Gaming Society that year, but she filled both chairs at one point or another in her three-year stint on the executive.

Fun Fact 2: Four years later at Gencon, my wife and I played in a 50 player, two-night, live-action Shadowrun. I won 1st place on the first night; she took 1st place on the second. Someone at the event described us as matching rattlesnakes.

(Not so humble brag. Everyone needs a good story though, right? Don't worry- the ending is humble: we're both old and busted now- but still happily hitched)
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

Here's an idea: Winning solves everything.

Now in most instances this refers to sporting teams or movie studios. Having a lot of losses, people questioning you, well... winning solves everything. Start winning, whatever came before will slowly drain away.

In this context I don't specifically mean winning games, but rather show up with something prized within the community: A cool looking fully painted army. Obviously easier said than done, but if you draw attention to the fact that you're just doing what "the boys" are already doing, it could remove any potential us/them barriers.

stratigo wrote:
Lo and behold, in the years 2021 dnd has flourished amongst female players.
Is it though? Or is it just the ones that do play get the most signal? I play D&D with one girl, but in all the hobby stores I've been to across my state I've almost never encountered a young girl or a grown woman. I see pictures from events and tournaments and they're either not present, or stick out as one among dozens and dozens.

So, again, has it really flourished, or is the spotlight just being shone upon them thereby making the perception seem that there are so many more of them?

Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Chaplain with Hate to Spare






PenitentJake wrote:
 Mistresspaige wrote:
One example I’ve had is treating me with kid gloves. Many think I don’t know much and need everything pointed out too me when I played. Another is they go really easy on me.


I think I might accidentally do this sometimes.
Yeah I've totally done that, but I've done it with guys too, and not just with gaming. Just equal opportunity awkward at times. Sometimes I can meet adequately on their wavelength, and sometimes not.

Assume good intentions. Roll with the punches. Build familiarity. Reach mutual understanding, respect and inclusiveness. . . . Hopefully.

But sometimes you can't. If so, either live with it or walk away.

And They Shall Not Fit Through Doors!!!

Tyranid Army Progress -- With Classic Warriors!:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/743240.page#9671598 
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut





 H.B.M.C. wrote:


stratigo wrote:
Lo and behold, in the years 2021 dnd has flourished amongst female players.
Is it though? Or is it just the ones that do play get the most signal? I play D&D with one girl, but in all the hobby stores I've been to across my state I've almost never encountered a young girl or a grown woman. I see pictures from events and tournaments and they're either not present, or stick out as one among dozens and dozens.

So, again, has it really flourished, or is the spotlight just being shone upon them thereby making the perception seem that there are so many more of them?


My current D&D group (Roll 20, weekly for 4-5 years now) includes:

Male GM
2 Male Players
3 Female Players
1 AFAB Trans Player

1 other male played with us for a while
3 other women played with us for a while

Cis-Men have been the minority since we started.
   
Made in us
Storm Trooper with Maglight






Mistresspaige wrote:
 vipoid wrote:
Could you give an example of the gatekeeping you've experienced?


Sure Thing. One example I’ve had is treating me with kid gloves. Many think I don’t know much and need everything pointed out too me when I played. Another is they go really easy on me. Or on the other hand I’ve won a game and the guy gets upset saying he let me win or you just got lucky.

I’ve also had examples where I try to add my thoughts to a conversation and are just blatantly ignored for the other guys instead. Or that my opinions arnt worth their time.

Worse was one guy who was constantly eyeing me with anger and hostility.He never said anything straight to my face but I could tell he didn’t want me there. That I wasn’t welcome.


The first one at least could be them being afraid to stomp the newbie, and would rather overcoddle than throw to the wolves so to speak. I know common advice I hear on these forums is that when there is a new player in the group, play a bit easy - not give away wins mind, but don't throw down a tourny list and beat down the new person's first models. They might be taking this too far and hopefully if you communicate this it will get through to them and they'll stop that.

The other ones are a bit more problematic. Unfortunately there are always sore losers, and people who will just be hostile in general - that is true in most any group. Hopefully by being upfront and straight with them, the ones who ignore you will turn around a bit, though it may take time. They might not realize they are even doing it - sometimes the loudest member of the group ends up pulling all the attention leaving several of the others in the dust. On the plus side, with one on one games, it might be easier to break the ice so to speak, even if the rest of the group is on hand.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Here's an idea: Winning solves everything.

Now in most instances this refers to sporting teams or movie studios. Having a lot of losses, people questioning you, well... winning solves everything. Start winning, whatever came before will slowly drain away.

In this context I don't specifically mean winning games, but rather show up with something prized within the community: A cool looking fully painted army. Obviously easier said than done, but if you draw attention to the fact that you're just doing what "the boys" are already doing, it could remove any potential us/them barriers.

stratigo wrote:
Lo and behold, in the years 2021 dnd has flourished amongst female players.
Is it though? Or is it just the ones that do play get the most signal? I play D&D with one girl, but in all the hobby stores I've been to across my state I've almost never encountered a young girl or a grown woman. I see pictures from events and tournaments and they're either not present, or stick out as one among dozens and dozens.

So, again, has it really flourished, or is the spotlight just being shone upon them thereby making the perception seem that there are so many more of them?


Has there ever been a point where women didn't play dnd? My current group is all men, but in the past I've gamed with several women in various groups and various lengths of time. Mind you my experience with dnd/tabletop rpgs only dates to the early oughts to the present, but from personal experience, and memories of old forums, there were always a decent number of women in the hobby. I think its more the spotlight is being shown more on them than before, rather than them not existing - plus since 5th dropped dnd itself has grown a lot in general, so even as a same percentage of the total number of players, there would be plenty more female players than back in the day.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




UK

 Mistresspaige wrote:
Hey guys I’m quite new to the whole 40k scene but after watching the hilarious Text to Speech show on YouTube last year I’ve been interested in trying out the game itself. However from a lot of groups I’ve met they’ve been maybe not hostile per day but a little gate keeping. How can I join in the fun on the hobby when I’m looked upon as not belonging? Is there anything I can do to make the community more welcoming to me?


Happy to have another body in the hobby. Welcome indeed :-)

If by ‘gatekeeping’ you mean wary of someone new, it’s common to all groups. Goes back to the time when we all ran around the savannah and climbed trees. Nobody knows how/where/if you’ll fit in the group, so until you become familiar, they will be unlikely to invest ‘social capital’ in you. So, keep on keeping on :-)

If you think that you are being treated as if you ‘don’t belong’, it’s that, as yet, you don’t? I recently started a new job, and, unsurprisingly, was treated just the same. However, after a while they realised I was just foul and loathsome as they, and it slackened off.

I would not worry about going out of your way to make the ‘community’ more welcoming. Once you have crushed your enemies, driven them before you, and heard the lamentations of their women, they will flee in terror at your very presence. Oh, wait . . .
   
Made in de
Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk






PenitentJake wrote:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:


stratigo wrote:
Lo and behold, in the years 2021 dnd has flourished amongst female players.
Is it though? Or is it just the ones that do play get the most signal? I play D&D with one girl, but in all the hobby stores I've been to across my state I've almost never encountered a young girl or a grown woman. I see pictures from events and tournaments and they're either not present, or stick out as one among dozens and dozens.

So, again, has it really flourished, or is the spotlight just being shone upon them thereby making the perception seem that there are so many more of them?


My current D&D group (Roll 20, weekly for 4-5 years now) includes:

Male GM
2 Male Players
3 Female Players
1 AFAB Trans Player

1 other male played with us for a while
3 other women played with us for a while

Cis-Men have been the minority since we started.


Can confirm. Unless groups have persisted for decades, most P&P groups I know tend to have female players.

7 Ork facts people always get wrong:
Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other.
A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot.
Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests.
Orks do not think that purple makes them harder to see. They do think that camouflage does however, without knowing why.
Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor.
Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers.
Orks do not have the power of believe. 
   
Made in de
Battlefield Tourist






Nuremberg

I'm sorry to hear about your experiences. I'm not sure what advice I can give having never been in your shoes. I hope some members of the dakka community that have experienced stuff like this can give you some advice that'll help.

I hope that if you keep attending, that some of this will lessen with time though, and that you can continue to enjoy the hobby.

   
Made in de
Ladies Love the Vibro-Cannon Operator






Hamburg

 Mistresspaige wrote:
 vipoid wrote:
Could you give an example of the gatekeeping you've experienced?


Sure Thing. One example I’ve had is treating me with kid gloves. Many think I don’t know much and need everything pointed out too me when I played. Another is they go really easy on me. Or on the other hand I’ve won a game and the guy gets upset saying he let me win or you just got lucky.

I’ve also had examples where I try to add my thoughts to a conversation and are just blatantly ignored for the other guys instead. Or that my opinions arnt worth their time.

Worse was one guy who was constantly eyeing me with anger and hostility.He never said anything straight to my face but I could tell he didn’t want me there. That I wasn’t welcome.

Well, the community is full of strange people and I always tried to get along with them. But those people often give up in the long run and never show up again in the gaming group.
More gaming experience would help and also following and participating discussions online (about tactics, army lists).

Former moderator 40kOnline

Lanchester's square law - please obey in list building!

Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a "" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."

Armies: Eldar, Necrons, Blood Angels, Grey Knights; World Eaters (30k); Bloodbound; Cryx, Circle, Cyriss 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




If your interested in wargaming you could play a game that has a community that doesn't have these hang ups. WM/H, Malifaux, Infinity etc don't seem to have any issues with female players, players of different races, orientations etc.

There is more to wargaming than GW
   
Made in no
Liche Priest Hierophant





Bergen

Outside from gatekeeping within the game (few female models in the game etc.) there probably is some gatekeeping outside the game from the players.

Ignoring it, and fighting it both comes with baggage that takes away from the hobby. My best vice would be to find players who do not gatekeep and have a nice circle of friends/club aquintanses that you can play with.

I know mtg has on occasion had a similar problem. A lot of women organized a loose comunaty of IRL friends and people on Twitter to ensure they had a good gaming circle. Perhaps you could start one of them. Women of magic or women of mana I think the mtg comunaty was called.

   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka




NE Ohio, USA

Sunno wrote:
If your interested in wargaming you could play a game that has a community that doesn't have these hang ups. WM/H, Malifaux, Infinity etc don't seem to have any issues with female players, players of different races, orientations etc.

There is more to wargaming than GW


So: "Welcome to the hobby, just don't play the same game I do."?

   
 
Forum Index » 40K General Discussion
Go to: