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Hi as I said in another post I'm just back to the hobby after a long break - I have a lot of old space marines and the ones from the dark imperium and indomitus sets - I need to get a battle mat and have found they are now different sizes than the old 6x4 boards - does anyone have experience of the GW cardboard mats or should i consider a different type - the GW are black moonscape and red Martian - had thought of a desert type any advice would help before i base any new marines TIA

Suggestions:
https://www.frontlinegaming.org/f-a-t-mats/
https://www.gamemat.eu/en/battle-mats/

 Beaker07 wrote:
Hi as I said in another post I'm just back to the hobby after a long break - I have a lot of old space marines and the ones from the dark imperium and indomitus sets - I need to get a battle mat and have found they are now different sizes than the old 6x4 boards - does anyone have experience of the GW cardboard mats or should i consider a different type - the GW are black moonscape and red Martian - had thought of a desert type any advice would help before i base any new marines TIA

Assuming you mean this: https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Battlezone-Manufactorum-2020

Nu-40k is sized to play on these boards. A small sub-500 pt game/kill team would be played on 1 board (i.e. 1 set purchased from GW), a mid-sized game would be on 2 boards (1 set purchased), and a "standard" 2000 pt game on 4 boards (2 of these purchased) to make 60" x 44" (I think ttechnically 44.8") table. That being said, there are many sources for neoprene/mousepad style mats (Frontline Gaming, PWork, and Deep Cut Studio are my personal favorites) that are available in the 60x44 format - my recommendation is to purchase that type of mat instead.

Note, that 6x4 boards are still playable, the rule sets the MINIMUM size for a 2000 pt game as 60x44, which is smaller than a 6x4, thus allowing you to continue using 6x4 boards if you want to, its just that the "competitive scene" has opted to use the table sizes defined by GW, and as these things typically go the competitive scene has set the standard for casual play by extension, as competitive gamers always want to "practice" for their next tournament and the best way to do that is to "train the way you fight". My recommendation to you, particularly if you play tabletop wargames other than 40k, would be to purchase a 6x4 mat and a conversion kit similar to this one https://store.frontlinegaming.org/flg-mats-hazard-conversion-kit.html to allow you to play it on the smaller "standard" size. There are similar products from other manufacturers that do the same thing (some are mdf, others use different materials or methods to achieve the same result). If you don't want to spend the money, then you can purchase blue masking tape and simply tape out the boundaries on the mat in order to convert it to 60x44.

Thanks - some nice mats there - have you used them yourself?

Just use your 6x4s and tape off the excess if you absolutely must just follow the rulebook. If you are a stickler or going full competitive then disregard this post and follow the links posted above.

our group has switched to FrontLine Gaming mats, along with the conversion kit to show the new boundaries. Highly recommend them. Use the same mats for other miniature games also. So we have a mix of the older 6x4 and some 60x44.

Thanks for all the info - yes that is the set i meant - so to start with i am making 2 x 500pt lists but aiming for the 1000pt level mostly so 1 box would do me for it or 2 boxes for 2000points - looked up some mats in EU from gamemat from previous posters advice and they are neoprene/mousepad style mats - would avoid nasty folds and gaps in cardboard

I use the fat mat (at least until I get my realm of battle sector imperialis painted). I'll probably just add hazards for the unplayable areas

Thanks - sorry i have a 6x4 wooden board (plain chipboard) which i used never had any proper "scenery" type battle mat before so was looking on advice re GW cardboard or others to put on top of my plain board which i could cut to size if i wanted

 Beaker07 wrote:
Thanks - sorry i have a 6x4 wooden board (plain chipboard) which i used never had any proper "scenery" type battle mat before so was looking on advice re GW cardboard or others to put on top of my plain board which i could cut to size if i wanted

Don't go cutting up your board because of GW. Just get whichever mats of whatever sizes & patterns you like, put them on your board, and then cover them in terrain (GWs or otherwise) to taste.

On cardstock? Only for boardgames.

Thanks - no wont do it just because of them - looks like a neoprene/mousepad style mat is the way to go then - have some terrain will need to get some more all GW so far

Just use 6x4. Forget about the stupid new table sizes. They don't matter.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Just use 6x4. Forget about the stupid new table sizes. They don't matter.

Unless you're going to play in tournaments. My local FLGS has their tournaments on 60x44. My games at the Warhammer store are usually on a 60x44. I have a 6x4 but why get used to 6x4 when all my games that matter will be on 60x44? Just because some people on this forum actively abhor "competitive" gaming like BTs abhor the witch doesn't mean everyone wants to play fluffhammer. You think NFL players are practicing on a field 140 yards long and 70 yards wide?

40k isn't a sport.
40k's board size isn't regulated or mandated by the rules.

GW's "recommended" board sizes have absolutely nothing to do with tournament games, game balance, or anything related to the actual playing of 40k (or AoS, for that matter). They exist purely because that's the side boards they could fit into their standard product boxes.

 Toofast wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Just use 6x4. Forget about the stupid new table sizes. They don't matter.

Unless you're going to play in tournaments. My local FLGS has their tournaments on 60x44. My games at the Warhammer store are usually on a 60x44. I have a 6x4 but why get used to 6x4 when all my games that matter will be on 60x44? Just because some people on this forum actively abhor "competitive" gaming like BTs abhor the witch doesn't mean everyone wants to play fluffhammer. You think NFL players are practicing on a field 140 yards long and 70 yards wide?

I abhor "competitive" 40k because you're seeps out of that environment & poisons the rest of the hobby.

I made my own mat from felt which I textured with gesso and paint. Felt is an inexpensive mat substitute. I cut mine down to 44 by 90 but I wish I had left it 48" wide for other games. So I'll need to make another one this year.

It's worth repeating that 60X44 is the minimum recommended board size. So do what ever you like. I fine 60x44 to be way too small.

40K plays differently on a 60x44 than on a 6x4 table. Ranged weapons work differently, melee happens much sooner (1st turn is possible). So the table size definitely matters.
Make a table with the 6x4, lay your mat out, use the extra space on the sides for models, rulebooks, etc.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
40k isn't a sport.
40k's board size isn't regulated or mandated by the rules.

GW's "recommended" board sizes have absolutely nothing to do with tournament games, game balance, or anything related to the actual playing of 40k (or AoS, for that matter). They exist purely because that's the side boards they could fit into their standard product boxes.

Thats absolutely not true. The game plays differently on a 4x4 board than it would on a say 10x12 board. As it stands the game is being playtested using the "recommended" table size and as such that it where the "balance" lies. The size difference between 60x44 and 72x48 might not be significant enough to really matter, but that doesn't preclude the possibility that units or armies might become more or less effective when played on a table of a different size than what it was intended to be played on, and thats a simple truth. The value of a basilisk (for example) with a 240" range certainly increases dramatically the larger the table becomes as it allows the player to significantly decrease the risk posed to the unit from the enemy without decreasing its lethality in the process.

chaos0xomega wrote:
The game plays differently on a 4x4 board than it would on a say 10x12 board.

Never suggested it wouldn't. Not sure what points you're trying to make here, as it's certainly one I wasn't making.

chaos0xomega wrote:
As it stands the game is being playtested using the "recommended" table size and as such that it where the "balance" lies. The size difference between 60x44 and 72x48 might not be significant enough to really matter, but that doesn't preclude the possibility that units or armies might become more or less effective when played on a table of a different size than what it was intended to be played on, and thats a simple truth.

I'd almost agree with you, if not for the fact that everything is far faster and weapon ranges are just increasing. Even in 6x4 most things now start in range, and turn 1 charges are a pretty normal thing these days. 6x4 or GW's stupid made-up dimensions play very little role in that.

And my actual points stand:

1. 40k is not a sport.
2. 40k's board size is not regulated or mandated by the rules.
3. GW's chosen board size has nothing to do with game play and everything to do with the size of board they could fold and fit into their standard-sized boxes.

chaos0xomega wrote:
The value of a basilisk (for example) with a 240" range certainly increases dramatically the larger the table becomes as it allows the player to significantly decrease the risk posed to the unit from the enemy without decreasing its lethality in the process.

And that might matter on a board that that's big, but if it's between 6x4 or 60x44, it doesn't matter, as no part of the board is 240" away from anything else.

I purchased two mats from FLG as well as several other items, and I will never buy another product from them.

The entire order was painful from start to disappointing finish.
- The mats are not symetrical. They were 6x4, but the were slanted diagonally. Which made the specially built table I had made useless, as it didn't fit the mat.
- Customer service told me it was my problem. I had ordered it 3 weeks prior to their big 40k event, and was still told there would be delays. I was still charged the full cost of expedited shipping though. I did recieve half the order within a week, which was pre-cut cardboard terrain buildings. Most were bent or warped. Nothing glue and popsickle sticks couldn't fix. The mats arrived 5 weeks after the order was placed. When I complained about the poor cut quality and the wait time, I was told "You ordered during our literal busiest part of the season".
- After the whole Totenkomph thing I just stopped even trying to give Reece any money.

chaos0xomega wrote:
Nu-40k is sized to play on these boards. A small sub-500 pt game/kill team would be played on 1 board (i.e. 1 set purchased from GW), a mid-sized game would be on 2 boards (1 set purchased), and a "standard" 2000 pt game on 4 boards (2 of these purchased) to make 60" x 44" (I think ttechnically 44.8" table.

Quick correction here: both Combat Patrol (<=500pt) and Incursion (<=1000pt) battles are fought on 44x30" tables. Kill Team is fought on a 22x30" board, though.

Personally, I don't mind GW's cardboard mats. I've got several from buying various terrain boxes over the past few years (they tend to give decent discounts anyway, so the boards are a good little freebie) and frequently use them for Kill Team in particular.

Given the choice, neoprene is definitely better overall. However, I like the way the cardboard boards fold up flat, and if the table I'm playing on is slightly too small then the rigid cardboard allows it to overhang without any problems. Just different tools for different jobs.

If table space is no object, then I'd just get some 6x4' mats and use masking tape or conversion kit if you want to use the "recommended" sizes.

It's worth mentioning that the maps in missions measure distances from center lines/ points outward...

This means that if you play on a larger than recommended table, your no man's land is the same width and distances between objectives will be the same- unless you modify the map in the mission to reflect the possibilities afforded by a larger table.

H.B.M.C. is right, there's a minimum board size but it doesn't mean that's the standard and anything else is not proper 40k.

I prefer the 60''x44'' because unlike the 6'x4' it fits my and my friends' tables pretty well and I mostly play at homes rather than stores.

Playing 1500 points instead of 2000 on 60''x44'' is even better.

Our group uses the new table sizes to just wall off the extra space of old boards with barricades, trees, rocks and the like. Easy to do.

We tested both sizes thoroughly at the start of 9th and the game is just much better with the smaller tables.

That melee is happening earlier on smaller tables is an urban myth at best - melee units need to cross the exact same amount of inches to get into your deployment zone on both types of tables. The only difference is that players can't hide their entire army so far back where melee infantry can't possibly reach them.

The only game mode which doesn't work well with minimum table sizes at all is planet strike.

Also, don't ever buy the cardboard boards from GW. They toss them out along with every other box, you can get a pile of them very cheap from ebay or similar sites. They are fine for quick games on someone's dinner table, but obviously inferior to real mats or self-build boards.

Thanks to everyone for their help and comments think I'll use my 6x4 wooden boards and buy one or two neoprene/mousepad style mats to put on top of them

What's funny about the GW cardboard game surfaces is that they themselves do not measure to the stated 44"x60" or any of the recommended minimum sizes. They're actually a little larger. I haven't measured in awhile, but IIRC each board is over by about 3/8".

Edit:
Just looked on GW's site and they say each board is 30"x22.4".

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
And my actual points stand:
1. 40k is not a sport.
2. 40k's board size is not regulated or mandated by the rules.
3. GW's chosen board size has nothing to do with game play and everything to do with the size of board they could fold and fit into their standard-sized boxes.

1. Being a sport is debatable. I tend to lean toward sports requiring a bit of sweat and physicality. But, it's certainly a ranked competition with a global presence in addition to just beer and pretzels.
2. It's has rules. They say here is the minimum size for this many points. Feel free to use bigger. Granted it's anecdotal, but I can't recall the last time I saw the game played on a full 6x4.
3. Probably true. They said because of feedback and table size, but it could purely be cost effective packaging. We should always take everything corporations say at face value right?

Also, I found the board you learned to play chess on.

1. W40K is not a sport.
2. [...]
3. Profit! Make no mistake... This is the no.1 reasoning behind the gameboard size change.

GW was using the 30"x22.4" carboard tiles for Kill Team since its inception. The 30"x22.4" was chosen because it fit the Kill Team boxes. GW stated/admitted this, but no one gave it a second thought because Kill Team was its own thing. Then 9th edition came and obviously GW saw a sales opportunity to offer a new product line of terrain using the 30"x22.4" carboard tiles.
a. I'm sure they have a better margin than the far superior, plastic Realm of Battle boards.
b. I'm sure they're easier to produce, stock and even sell.
c. They'll wear out and will be repurchased. On and on it goes.

For an easier time, a sheet of PDF or plywood, is exactly 4x8, and no odd angles. Put that on a couple of saw horses, and you have a full game table. or chop two feet off and you're good to go. It's half the cost of a neoprene matt. Most plywood or pdf ranges in the 20-40 dollar range.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Just use 6x4. Forget about the stupid new table sizes. They don't matter.

This. feth 'em.