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UK

I'm a bit confused by these weapons.

The tau troops don’t have a grenade that they can throw and go boom like other armies.
The Tau photon grenade, currently has 12" range is weapon type Grenade D6 and is a Blast profile, S- AP- D- … That's right no stats for S AP D.

It is also stated that “this weapon does not inflict any damage. Your opponent must subtract 1 from any hit rolls made for infantry units that have suffered any hits from photon grenades until the end of the turn”.

The only time I have used them is in overwatch when enemy infantry has charged me, so that they suffer -1 to hits (in the hope that some of my units may survive the fight). The weapon has 12” range and enemy must be within 12” to declare a charge and it lasts until the end of turn (not phase), so seems to be intended to be used this way.
If I wanted more use of them I think they would need a rules change.


This gets me thinking, can they be used in close combat engagement range?
As they are grenade and blast weapons I would normally say no.
As it states, this weapon does not inflict any damage, I am thinking it does it really count as an attack?
It seems that a well aimed Tau cough would be more dangerous to enemy units as covid would be more lethal than this grenade.
After all what's the worst that could happen dropping one of these in melee? everyone suffers -1 to hit? (as tau in melee, I may still choose that option, if I don’t want to fall back or want to stay on objective).

My thinking here is that the grenade can be used by one model in the unit (instead of shooting), as per the grenade rule, the rest could use pistols to shoot, remaining in engagement with enemy units getting -1 to hit, in melee.

The reasoning behind the blast weapons rule not being used in engagement range from GW is that “firing high-explosives at point-blank range is simply unwise”. While in most explosives and with grenades this would make sense, In this case it does not apply to this ‘weapon’ (if we can call it that as it does not damage) because it is not “high-explosive”.
It seems that the photon grenade is more like a real life flash-bang / stun grenade, which are not considered high-explosive but incendiary devices (only if you are right next to them can you get burns .... or set curtains on fire if you are swinging in like a wrecking ball into an embassy....)

Blast weapons follow the normal rules of shooting and some addition rules.
(ignoring the stuff about number of attacks / shots against the units with X number of models).
Blast is stated as “Blast weapons can never be used to make attacks against a unit that is within Engagement Range of the firing model’s unit” - “firing high-explosives at point-blank range is simply unwise”

I think that the blast profile may just have been given to give the weapons its attacks / shots profile of 1-5 units D6, 6-10 units D6 with minimum of 3, 11+ units is maximum 6.


I guess I am hoping that the new codex will give Tau a proper grenade (that goes boom and does not just make fancy disco lights), or that the photon grenade drops the blast but has the same attacks / shots profile written into the weapon abilities (or still has blast but an exception to engagement).

But until then what do people think, does the sparkly disco ball still have to follow the blast rules, even though it does not damage and is not explosive? (I guess any other blast weapons that don’t do damage also?, cant think of any at the moment), or should it be exempt?
   
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In My Lab

You cannot throw Grenades in Close Combat, unless you are a Vehicle or a Monster equipped with Grenades. And if they’re a Blast weapon, not even then.

Your reasoning makes fictional sense, but the rules are not the same as sense.

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UK

 JNAProductions wrote:

Your reasoning makes fictional sense, but the rules are not the same as sense.


Good point rules don't always make sense, just kinda wish I have more use out of these things.
Tau just don't really get the grenades that other factions do, even though they clearly understand the concept of throwing something at the enemy to 'hurt' them.

I guess tau use drones instead of grenades.
I guess the closest thing they have is the DS8 Tactical Support Turret (a bit like the Astartes grenade launcher but more expensive).
They could just drop that down at the end of moment phase (and can renew it for a CP, assuming that the strat still exists), which may help with holding an objective.

It seems that DS8 Tactical Support Turret is getting a boost with:
Missile pod (down 6”) 30" Range, Assault 2, S 7, AP -2 (up 1), D 2 (was D D3).
Smart missile system 30" Range, Heavy 4, S 5, Ap -1 (up 1), D 1.
(no idea on addition points cost or abilities)

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/01/09 17:24:08


 
   
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Has there been recent information suggesting that the new codex will implement photon grenades in the same way? A lot of factions have been getting their more unconventional weapons changed to stratagems rather than forcing you to make an attack with them.

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UK

 Bilge Rat wrote:
Has there been recent information suggesting that the new codex will implement photon grenades in the same way? A lot of factions have been getting their more unconventional weapons changed to stratagems rather than forcing you to make an attack with them.


Not that i have seen, but would be coll
   
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Perhaps, this should be in proposed rules rather than you make da call?

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UK

So back to the topic at hand, is this the only grenade / blast weapon that does not damage?

And has anyone found any other use for it other than when people are charging at you?

FYI im starting to think that this should have worked more like the SM Lieutenant in Reiver Armour - shock and smoke grenades (combination of the two), shock and awe stratagem (cant be used in over watch, target an enemy unit in 6" and on hit the enemy get -1 to hits), smoke screen stratagem (give your unit -1 to hit in opponent shooting phase)
If it were like that it would be more useful but cost a CP.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/01/10 08:40:44


 
   
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bedivere wrote:
So back to the topic at hand, is this the only grenade / blast weapon that does not damage?

And has anyone found any other use for it other than when people are charging at you?

FYI im starting to think that this should have worked more like the SM Lieutenant in Reiver Armour - shock and smoke grenades (combination of the two), shock and awe stratagem (cant be used in over watch, target an enemy unit in 6" and on hit the enemy get -1 to hits), smoke screen stratagem (give your unit -1 to hit in opponent shooting phase)
If it were like that it would be more useful but cost a CP.
It's niche situation for Tau but photon grenades can be used to debuff a target before charging to make it less likely for the charging unit to take damage, thus forcing a reactive play during opponent's turn (battlesuits often have enough M to tripoint a target, thus forcing your opponent to burn a CP for DB if it must fall back).

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/01/14 12:32:28


 
   
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UK

I do sometimes charge with kroot or sometimes with vespid, but that is normally to clog up enemy movment and they rarley have support from firewarriors.
   
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UK

I do have a full squad of 12 vespid, which i used to like sending into 5 man intercessor squads.

Now looking at it with the new AP -3 and D2 I feel that they may be better suited to the heavy intercessor squads.
They will also lack the range to move (5") and charge (12") into them if they landed at max range 18" away.
(of course i wouldnt want to face the guns though)

And now they are 2 points cheaper too (12 ppm, 144 for all 12 yay)
   
 
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