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Made in ca
Poisonous Kroot Headhunter





So, I was thinking of a thematic and easy way to do Inqusition rules (even if it only ends up being house rules) and I came up with this:

If your Warlord has the Inquisition Keyword, your detachments can use any unit with the Imperium Keyword, however they may never benefit from any Chapter Tactics (or whatever the correct working is for this to cover all armies), nor any Stratagems from their codex. So essentially, a Space Marine unit would still have it's generic Angels of Death ability, (ATSKNF, Shock Assault, Bolter Discipline, Doctrines), but would loose anything chapter specific and could not use any SM specific stratagems. Perhaps the Inquisition could get a new suite of Stratagems, say 2-3 for each faction that could be used instead. Say an Inquisition Space Marine units could get a stratagem to re-roll hits against your Quarry Targets or something, really just spitballing with that last part TBH.

So, off the top of my head, an example of a 500pt list could be something like:
Inquisitor with Force Sword and Combi-Melta: 80pts
Astra Militarum Infantry Squad with Mortar(10 man): 65pts
Space Marine Intercessor Squad (5 man): 100pts
Custodes Vertus Praetors (3 man) with Salvo Launchers: 255pts

What do you all think? Properly thematic? Is the sacrifice large enough to offset the benefit of basically getting to take anything you want? In then end that is what I was trying to go for, a more-less balanced way that essentially lets Inquisitors do whatever they want.

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Made in gb
Lord of the Fleet






London

Sounds a bit overkill in terms of the Inquisition's methods, but also from a rules standpoint. Doesn't matter if you lose some rules if you can just plug the army's weaknesses with different armies.
   
Made in ca
Poisonous Kroot Headhunter





 Valkyrie wrote:
Sounds a bit overkill in terms of the Inquisition's methods, but also from a rules standpoint. Doesn't matter if you lose some rules if you can just plug the army's weaknesses with different armies.


I think there is a critical mass where you take enough away that it would balance out, I'm just not sure if I took away enough. There is a lot in each army baked into their special rules and stratagems. With this idea, you get to make a jack of all trades army that can be decent-good at everything, but not great at anything. If you went too heavily into wanting to do a specific thing or run it in a specific way, then it would make more sense to just to it in that army's codex. That's the idea at least.

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Made in au
Repentia Mistress





Why do people insist on pretending Open Play doesn't exist?
   
Made in ca
Librarian with Freaky Familiar






By having gray knights and letting them take inquisitor faction characters, problem solved.

To many unpainted models to count. 
   
Made in dk
Loyal Necron Lychguard






It'd probably be fair enough, but I kind of hate it. I really love that each soup ingredient needs a leader, something I find thematic.

4 different factions in 500 pts is too much from a rules overload perspective IMO. You're better off playing open play if you want to create this crazy scenario where an Inquisitor ends up in command of a Marine unit, a Custodes unit and a Guard unit.
   
Made in ca
Poisonous Kroot Headhunter





Riiiight... I do remember that open play exists, I just tend to forget that you don't need to use the Detachments. XD

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Made in us
Dakka Veteran





Just make up whatever and if your friends agree to it okay it. I’m making some Terran StarCraft marines with firebats and medics and we will use them in game. Stim packs and everything.
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





I'm unclear on what problem you're trying to solve. The current inquisition rules lets you splash inquisitors into any imperial detachment you want; you just give up doctrine-level benefits for doing so. So right there you have official rules that provide the option to include an inquisitor but with an associated drawback. Then the ally rules let you add additional factions into the mix, but at the cost of spending CP on those detachments. Is there something about that system that you feel is too punitive or that does a bad job of representing the narrative you're going for?

Being able to mix an inquisitor, guardsmen, sisters, and space marines all into the same army seems pretty flexible as-is. And because you can already do that, I worry you'd struggle to find people willing to let you bypass some of the official drawbacks in favor of your homebrew rules.

If you want to make an army feel more "inquisitorial" in nature, maybe that's something that homebrewed chapter tactics could help with. Instead of using tallarn rules, your guardsmen might have "Ordo Xenos" regimental rules that give you vaguely death-watchy stratagems, etc.


ATTENTION
. Psychic tests are unfluffy. Your longing for AV is understandable but misguided. Your chapter doesn't need a separate codex. Doctrines should go away. Being a "troop" means nothing. This has been a cranky service announcement. You may now resume your regularly scheduled arguing.
 
   
Made in us
Deathwing Terminator with Assault Cannon






Easiest way would be to implement similar rules as brood brothers for GSC+AM where certain units are given permission to be given [Inquisition] keyword.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut



London

The easiest would be a crusade supplement (so easier on balance) with an inquisitor, retinue and militia/rabble choosing support from four faction choices (generic) Scion, (Malleus) Grey Knight, (Hereticus) SoB and (Xenos) Deathwatch. Some sort of rule where the Inq forces can use their factions strategems and a few general ones and bespoke faction ones for Scions and Inq.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/01/14 13:04:10


 
   
Made in us
Impassive Inquisitorial Interrogator






I honestly think a version of the ynnari rules could work, with a few more special units and not being a ball of waste. You get access to the 3 orders militant (dependent on Ordo)+guard, but various keywords and abilities are changed in exchange for special Inquisitor abilities. As an example, your SOB units could lose things such as Sacred Rites in exchange for bonuses from the inquisition, such as better weapons and armor. (Just an example I have no idea how crippling that would be to their effectiveness).
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





skchsan wrote:Easiest way would be to implement similar rules as brood brothers for GSC+AM where certain units are given permission to be given [Inquisition] keyword.

Sincere question: what does that achieve that the current ally rules don't? You're currently allowed to splash an inquisitor into any imperial detachment, and iirc you have the option to take an all-inquisition detachment. Adding Brood Brothers style restrictions on would actually be more complicated than just using the existing rules, no?

The_Real_Chris wrote:The easiest would be a crusade supplement (so easier on balance) with an inquisitor, retinue and militia/rabble choosing support from four faction choices (generic) Scion, (Malleus) Grey Knight, (Hereticus) SoB and (Xenos) Deathwatch. Some sort of rule where the Inq forces can use their factions strategems and a few general ones and bespoke faction ones for Scions and Inq.

Same as above. How does this vary from just using the current inquisitor and/or ally rules? I'm all for a special set of Inquisitor-related crusade rules, but we already have rules to allow you to splash Inq units into a primarily non-inquisitorial army.

ProfSrlojohn wrote:I honestly think a version of the ynnari rules could work, with a few more special units and not being a ball of waste. You get access to the 3 orders militant (dependent on Ordo)+guard, but various keywords and abilities are changed in exchange for special Inquisitor abilities. As an example, your SOB units could lose things such as Sacred Rites in exchange for bonuses from the inquisition, such as better weapons and armor. (Just an example I have no idea how crippling that would be to their effectiveness).

Not opposed to something like this, but I wonder if it might be overkill. Rather than coming up with a full list of inquisitorial stratagems and doctrine-level mechanics, would it perhaps make more sense to just have a few "Ordo" chapter tactic equivalents available to each imperial codex?

So for instance, you have a guard detachment. Instead of being "Tallarn" or "Catachan", they're "Ordo Hereticus" which gives them a unique relic, warlord trait, stratagem and regimental doctrine just like any other regimental doctrine. And maybe you create a couple generic "Inquisitorial" stratagems available to any army that includes an inquisitor.

Similarly, marines might have a "chapter" called "Ordo Xenos Conscripted" or what have you that, again, comes with a custom relic, stratagem, etc.

I guess what I'm getting at is this: How different do you want sisters working for the inquisition to be from normal sisters? Is working for the inquisition a big enough deal to make them stop fighting like Bloody Roses or to lose their Sacred Rites? If a Bloody Rose work for an inquisitor is still a Bloody Rose, then the existing rules probably work just fine. If a Bloody Rose working for an inquisitor has been trained to use different tactics but is still essentially a sister, you're probably looking at a custom Order (chapter tactic). And if you want the sister to be so different that she has different wargear options and no longer benefits from Sacred Rites and such, then you might be entering homebrew codex territory. How different are your Ordo Xenos marines from plain old Death Watch? How different are your Ordo Malleus marines from Grey Knights or Exorcists?


ATTENTION
. Psychic tests are unfluffy. Your longing for AV is understandable but misguided. Your chapter doesn't need a separate codex. Doctrines should go away. Being a "troop" means nothing. This has been a cranky service announcement. You may now resume your regularly scheduled arguing.
 
   
Made in us
Deathwing Terminator with Assault Cannon






Wyldhunt wrote:
skchsan wrote:Easiest way would be to implement similar rules as brood brothers for GSC+AM where certain units are given permission to be given [Inquisition] keyword.

Sincere question: what does that achieve that the current ally rules don't? You're currently allowed to splash an inquisitor into any imperial detachment, and iirc you have the option to take an all-inquisition detachment. Adding Brood Brothers style restrictions on would actually be more complicated than just using the existing rules, no?
Adding outside forces in the same style as ynnari/GSC would allow you to take mixed faction force without taking multiple detachments, which would be an issue in certain formats that restricts the number of detachments you can take per force/filling in required FOC's. In the OP's example, it taps into 4 factions, resulting in 3 separate detachments + Authority of the Inquisition with none of them meeting any detachment FOC requirements.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/01/19 05:15:01


 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





 skchsan wrote:
Wyldhunt wrote:
skchsan wrote:Easiest way would be to implement similar rules as brood brothers for GSC+AM where certain units are given permission to be given [Inquisition] keyword.

Sincere question: what does that achieve that the current ally rules don't? You're currently allowed to splash an inquisitor into any imperial detachment, and iirc you have the option to take an all-inquisition detachment. Adding Brood Brothers style restrictions on would actually be more complicated than just using the existing rules, no?
Adding outside forces in the same style as ynnari/GSC would allow you to take mixed faction force without taking multiple detachments, which would be an issue in certain formats that restricts the number of detachments you can take per force/filling in required FOC's. In the OP's example, it taps into 4 factions, resulting in 3 separate detachments with none of them meeting any detachment FOC requirements.

Ah, so specifically when you're trying to exceed the permitted number of detachments. Fair enough, though I feel like most people would probably be okay with not having 4+ imperial factions present in a standard game. This is just personal taste, but it starts feeling weird to me when you have sisters, admech, guard, inquisitors, multiple marine chapters and an assassin all running around on the same battlefield. It's rare enough to have that kind of representation on an entire planet, let alone on the same city block.


ATTENTION
. Psychic tests are unfluffy. Your longing for AV is understandable but misguided. Your chapter doesn't need a separate codex. Doctrines should go away. Being a "troop" means nothing. This has been a cranky service announcement. You may now resume your regularly scheduled arguing.
 
   
Made in au
Longtime Dakkanaut




Simple things first:
- At least 6 generic relics. There's only 2 generic ones currently.
- At least 6 generic warlord traits. There's only 3 generic ones currently.
- 5 point upgrade to allow Inquisitors to take power armour again.

Complicated things:
Inquisitorial Storm Troopers: The units listed below can be included in an Inquisition Detachment. These units gain the Inquisition keyword. In addition, replace the <Tempestus Regiment> keyword with <Ordo>. Inquisitorial Storm Troopers can never benefit from the Quarry ability. Inquisitorial Storm Trooper characters may not be chosen as your Warlord.

- Tempestor Prime
- Militarum Tempestus Scions
- Taurox Prime
- Militarum Tempestus Command Squad

Inquisitorial Henchmen: The units listed below can be included in an Inquisition Detachment. These units gain the Inquisition keyword. In addition, replace the Astra Militarum keyword with <Ordo> (this includes any instances of Astra Militarum in the Astral Divination special ability, and any Psykana Discipline psychic powers). Alternatively, replace the Adeptus Ministorum keyword with <Ordo> (this includes any instances of Adeptus Ministorum in the Emboldened by Prayer, Medicus Ministorum, Sacred Healing special abilities, and when intoning a Hymns of Battle). Inquisitorial Henchmen can never benefit from the Quarry ability. Inquisitorial Henchmen characters may not be chosen as your Warlord.

- Astropaths
- Crusaders
- Death Cult Assassins
- Hospitallers
- Missionaries
- Preachers

Chamber Militant Stratagems:
Designers Note: You are not required to use these stratagems to just include an Inquisitor in the below detachments, these are purely to provide additional keywords and options.

Ordo Hereticus: If an Ordo Hereticus Inquisitor is taken inside an Adepta Sororitas Patrol, Battalion, or Brigade detachment using the Authority of the Inquisition ability then all units in this detachment gain the Inquisition and Ordo Hereticus keywords. Chamber Militant units can never benefit from the Quarry ability. If that Inquisitor is taken in a Patrol detachment when this Stratagem is used, this Stratagem costs 1CP; otherwise, it costs 2CP.

Ordo Malleus: If an Ordo Malleus Inquisitor is taken inside a Grey Knights Patrol, Battalion, or Brigade detachment using the Authority of the Inquisition ability then all units in this detachment gain the Inquisition and Ordo Malleus keywords. Chamber Militant units can never benefit from the Quarry ability. If that Inquisitor is taken in a Patrol detachment when this Stratagem is used, this Stratagem costs 1CP; otherwise, it costs 2CP.

Ordo Xenos: If an Ordo Xenos Inquisitor is taken inside a Deathwatch Patrol, Battalion, or Brigade detachment using the Authority of the Inquisition ability then all units in this detachment gain the Inquisition and Ordo Xenos keywords. Chamber Militant units can never benefit from the Quarry ability. If that Inquisitor is taken in a Patrol detachment when this Stratagem is used, this Stratagem costs 1CP; otherwise, it costs 2CP.

* * * * *

That's it. I think that would make playing both a mono-Inquisition force, or just taking a regular Inquisitor in an existing force would be much more interesting.

This message was edited 10 times. Last update was at 2022/01/25 05:47:55


 
   
Made in us
Confessor Of Sins





Tacoma, WA, USA

 skchsan wrote:
Wyldhunt wrote:
skchsan wrote:Easiest way would be to implement similar rules as brood brothers for GSC+AM where certain units are given permission to be given [Inquisition] keyword.

Sincere question: what does that achieve that the current ally rules don't? You're currently allowed to splash an inquisitor into any imperial detachment, and iirc you have the option to take an all-inquisition detachment. Adding Brood Brothers style restrictions on would actually be more complicated than just using the existing rules, no?
Adding outside forces in the same style as ynnari/GSC would allow you to take mixed faction force without taking multiple detachments, which would be an issue in certain formats that restricts the number of detachments you can take per force/filling in required FOC's. In the OP's example, it taps into 4 factions, resulting in 3 separate detachments + Authority of the Inquisition with none of them meeting any detachment FOC requirements.
What you have described is not Ynnari/GSC-style mixed force.

Ynnari allows some select characters to be in a detachment that they normally cannot be in pretty much the same manner as Agent of the Imperium. It does allow all three to be in one detachment compared to only one Agent of the Imperium, but that's the big different. That and the ability to give a special Ynnari subfaction keyword to a Craftworlds, Harliquin or Drukhari Detachment. It notably doesn't allow you to mix the three type of Aeldari into one detachment.

GSC Brood Brothers is just a special Astra Militarum regiment that can be taken by GSC despite not sharing an army Keyword. Not needed for Inquisition since everyone you want to include is Imperium.

So what you are really asking for is OG Imperium Soup. Free mixing of Imperium units within a detachment despite the only keyword shared is Imperium. Can't say there is a balanced way of doing this in a Battle-Forged army since it breaks just about all the rules.
   
 
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