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Lady Space Marines!

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/01/11/the-order-of-the-bloody-rose-get-even-more-fanatical-and-ferocious-in-their-new-codex-supplement/

Congratulations!

Things I'm salty about:
Endless "DLC" spread across books. Part of me also hates that now out of 6 or so Orders, 2 have supplements and 4 don't.
1 wound CSM.
No Necron supplements. They are in a worse place than Sisters. But then I'm not that upset as at least it means their rules are sort of all in one place (once you apply the FAQs etc).

First double supplement? These have been in the campaign books already. Dark Eldar got one. Ad Mech got one. Hive Fleet Behemoth got one. Cadians got one. Or you mean the first one to get two sets of DLC rules?

Yeah, the DLC rules GW is doing now is crap. They see the worst practices of the AAA gaming industry and decide to ape Warner Brothers Interactive's penchant for going "Oh! I can do that too! Only worse!".

I agree that this kind of DLC drip in Campaign books is obnoxious, and shouldn't be separate to begin with. However, I wouldn't hold it against SoB specifically. Considering how badly they've been neglected in the past, I feel like this is something that's long overdue, even if I don't think it should be in a supplement format.

Yeah, this seems like exactly the same thing Cult of Strife got for DE in a campaign book. Doesn't make it any less stupid and annoying but unless it's on a par with the Sm supplements in terms of extra content it's not quite as bad as the OP's making out.

I really wish GW would sort out their release schedule. There are so many armies still in need of a 9th edition Codex, yet we're getting updates for armies that have been out for less than a year in many cases. It also directly reinforces the annoying idea that you need a bunch of extra special official rules to run certain armies. There's nothing stopping you doing a perfectly fluffy, decently powerful, Blood Rose army just using the SoB Codex on its own.

Wasn't expecting this...
Bloat for the bloat god!

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
First double supplement? These have been in the campaign books already. Dark Eldar got one. Ad Mech got one. Hive Fleet Behemoth got one. Cadians got one. Or you mean the first one to get two sets of DLC rules?

Yeah, the DLC rules GW is doing now is crap. They see the worst practices of the AAA gaming industry and decide to ape Warner Brothers Interactive's penchant for going "Oh! I can do that too! Only worse!".

Yep, they are the first to get two sets of supplements, they already have an OoML supplement.

At least if they are pumping out six supplements per codex, we might get an extra year out of 9th before 10th.

And thanks for making me think of the horror of a second DE supplement while they are still the meta top dogs.

Slipspace wrote:
Yeah, this seems like exactly the same thing Cult of Strife got for DE in a campaign book. Doesn't make it any less stupid and annoying but unless it's on a par with the Sm supplements in terms of extra content it's not quite as bad as the OP's making out.

I really wish GW would sort out their release schedule. There are so many armies still in need of a 9th edition Codex, yet we're getting updates for armies that have been out for less than a year in many cases. It also directly reinforces the annoying idea that you need a bunch of extra special official rules to run certain armies. There's nothing stopping you doing a perfectly fluffy, decently powerful, Blood Rose army just using the SoB Codex on its own.

GW really doesn't take a perspective about these rules making the army better and they are definitely not about balance. It's their ploy to draw more direct purchases of a book from people who normally wouldn't even give the book a second glance.

It needs to go away, but it seems they're committed to the premise for quite some time so people just ought to boycott these books.

I'd rather see more Armies of Renown, than sub-faction supplements. I really like the army building themes those can create, and have the opportunity to be used by more sub-factions.

They could have cool things like rules for running all Phobos marines, or thematic armies like that.

I was okay with OOML getting a supplement since they were a middling Order, but Bloody Rose are top-tier Sisters, now they're probably just going to get even more ridiculously good and further incentivize running mixed-Order detachments to maximize your melee output.

That said, the preview rules don't look too broken, and buffing Paragon Warsuits can only be a good thing for one of the weakest units in the Codex.

To clarify:

SM supplements and the supplements received in campaign books are not remotely comparable. SM supplements include far more of everything that campaign books include, but they additionally contain bespoke Crusade content, and often bespoke datacards- especially named characters- which campaign book supplements do not.

I think that all codexes should have been released before any campaign books.

I think that every faction should have received at least one supplement before any faction received a second- and I say that as a Sisters player.

However, IF all of the dexes had been out by now as planned, and IF the supplements had been spread among factions more evenly, I do think this is a better way of growing the game than "Gee, everything's out now, let's blow it all up, start a new edition and make you buy everything have alraedy bought 9 times ONE MORE TIME!"

The release of campaign books HAS been problematic for sure. But if GW ever decides to let campaign books replace edition churn, it'll be the best thing that's ever happened to the game.

As with all the campaign books, we just have to keep not buying them until someone understand that they are not a good product.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Andilus Greatsword wrote:
I was okay with OOML getting a supplement since they were a middling Order, but Bloody Rose are top-tier Sisters, now they're probably just going to get even more ridiculously good and further incentivize running mixed-Order detachments to maximize your melee output.

That said, the preview rules don't look too broken, and buffing Paragon Warsuits can only be a good thing for one of the weakest units in the Codex.

Not really.
BR are too monodimensional of an army, and you never run them alone. You see them always as a second detachment to VH and AS.
If the rumor that mixing subfactions will be restricted, then BR will need a lot of help.

Haven't heard a rumour about restricting mixed subfactions, but I hope if it happens it's restricted to matched play. It would really suck to lose another storytelling tool.

Morven Vahl as a supreme commander of a multi-order war of faith is fluffy AF and if they take that possibility away in Crusade games, I'm not going to be happy.

Do anything you want in the name of balance to Matched play, but let Crusade tell the stories it was meant to tell.

Spoletta wrote:
As with all the campaign books, we just have to keep not buying them until someone understand that they are not a good product.

Yep. The codexes themselves are overproduced and overpriced for their actual useful lifespan; the supplements are a straight up ripoff. I will continue to pirate the content and print out the 1-2 pages of useful material.

I don't mind supplements or Crusade books, but I think they should have been done after every army got their new codex.

Themed books are a good way to pad out an edition after the core rules are released.

Could be supplements for different armies combined in one book.

Could be an alternate way how to handle psychic powers.

One could be about super heavy models and so on.

Much better than releasing every army and then starting again from scratch with a new edition. And you can release new models alongside every book if needed.

GW can’t win for losing.

“Muh army hasn’t seen a release for two years, six months and three days!”

**GW releases campaign supplement with new rules, models and whatnot.**

“Now I’ve got to tote around 10,000 books and supplements to run muh army!”

 Stormonu wrote:
GW can’t win for losing.

“Muh army hasn’t seen a release for two years, six months and three days!”

**GW releases campaign supplement with new rules, models and whatnot.**

“Now I’ve got to tote around 10,000 books and supplements to run muh army!”

Someone will be along directly to utter the holy word 'Digital' and this will magically solve all the issues.

I find it amusing that many if you will go on for pages about how you'd change a faction, or what you'd like to see added to it.

But when GW does add something? Then there's all kinds of complaining....

Also, you all decry general use rules content appearing in these campaign books. "DLC! RAAARGH!"
But yet you never rail on about it showing up in the pages of WD for some reason. In the current issue (471) both the SoB & Tyranids got content.
Why is that? What's the difference? What's triggering you on one but not the other?

remember when they GW said they were going to get rid of all the books you needed in order to play?

Remember when people said 7th had to many rules to remember?

pepperidge farm remembers.

Spoletta wrote:
As with all the campaign books, we just have to keep not buying them until someone understand that they are not a good product.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Andilus Greatsword wrote:
I was okay with OOML getting a supplement since they were a middling Order, but Bloody Rose are top-tier Sisters, now they're probably just going to get even more ridiculously good and further incentivize running mixed-Order detachments to maximize your melee output.

That said, the preview rules don't look too broken, and buffing Paragon Warsuits can only be a good thing for one of the weakest units in the Codex.

Not really.
BR are too monodimensional of an army, and you never run them alone. You see them always as a second detachment to VH and AS.
If the rumor that mixing subfactions will be restricted, then BR will need a lot of help.

That's what I'm saying - running Sisters melee units as BR is so much better than running them as any other Order, with the way the game is run right now, you're actively gimping yourself by not running mixed-Order detachments. Upping the power of the melee-focused Order just makes that even more obvious. I'd personally prefer if you had to make a choice about how you wanted to dedicate your force, which would at least give a jack-of-all-trades Order like OOML more use.

ccs wrote:
I find it amusing that many if you will go on for pages about how you'd change a faction, or what you'd like to see added to it.

But when GW does add something? Then there's all kinds of complaining....

Also, you all decry general use rules content appearing in these campaign books. "DLC! RAAARGH!"
But yet you never rail on about it showing up in the pages of WD for some reason. In the current issue (471) both the SoB & Tyranids got content.
Why is that? What's the difference? What's triggering you on one but not the other?

White Dwarf doesn't cost 40ish currency or whatever.

Don't buy the book, then.

I'm resolving to not purchase any campaign books. The lore is uninteresting to me and the add-on of rules seems extraneous and an awful way to treat your customer base.

On top of that, we should expect GW to balance the Codexes with or without these extra stratagems. Is that the case? Heck no, but customers that wish to compete in any sense should not feel a need to buy every book.

AND FURTHERMORE, it's just for Bloody Rose, just like how the previous one was just for Our Martyred Lady. If you don't play either of those subfactions, then they don't matter.

Spoletta wrote:
As with all the campaign books, we just have to keep not buying them until someone understand that they are not a good product.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Andilus Greatsword wrote:
I was okay with OOML getting a supplement since they were a middling Order, but Bloody Rose are top-tier Sisters, now they're probably just going to get even more ridiculously good and further incentivize running mixed-Order detachments to maximize your melee output.

That said, the preview rules don't look too broken, and buffing Paragon Warsuits can only be a good thing for one of the weakest units in the Codex.

Not really.
BR are too monodimensional of an army, and you never run them alone. You see them always as a second detachment to VH and AS.
If the rumor that mixing subfactions will be restricted, then BR will need a lot of help.

Not really? Only 3 non-Morvenn units in the sisters of battle army have shooting attacks. With the FAQ killing the Argent Shroud bonus coming in from reserves and mortifiers not benefiting from convictions, every faction shoots basically the same now.

Ufffff, I'm not a fan of this DLC nonsense. The only good thing I can say about this is at least the it didn't come out the same month as the SoB codex!

Never mind the balance issues that supplements cause. At least the armies of renown come with restrictions.

A cad on redditt:
"Sisters have more supplements than CSM have wounds."

 Stormonu wrote:
GW can’t win for losing.

“Muh army hasn’t seen a release for two years, six months and three days!”

**GW releases campaign supplement with new rules, models and whatnot.**

“Now I’ve got to tote around 10,000 books and supplements to run muh army!”

Sisters of Battle got a codex and a supplement last year.

 Lord Damocles wrote:

 Stormonu wrote:
GW can’t win for losing.

“Muh army hasn’t seen a release for two years, six months and three days!”

**GW releases campaign supplement with new rules, models and whatnot.**

“Now I’ve got to tote around 10,000 books and supplements to run muh army!”

Sisters of Battle got a codex and a supplement last year.

Well they got a Codex and were in a Campaign Supplement I think you mean - its not like they had a six supplement books purely devoted to specific Orders/subfactions

 Drachii wrote:

 Stormonu wrote:
GW can’t win for losing.

“Muh army hasn’t seen a release for two years, six months and three days!”

**GW releases campaign supplement with new rules, models and whatnot.**

“Now I’ve got to tote around 10,000 books and supplements to run muh army!”

Someone will be along directly to utter the holy word 'Digital' and this will magically solve all the issues.

GW has a subscription based digital platform that they could totally use to deliver their drip-feed of faction updates and gameplay balances. But the fanbase seems to be content with paying $60 for a page of rules in glossy hardback form and a monthly subscription for an app that does nothing.

I remember Ork players complaining how the rules for their army were spread across an out of date codex, a half a dozen White Dwarfs and a Chapter Approved.

So glad to know that we are ALL in that boat nowadays.

I've purchased two campaign books so far, and I do plan on getting the others; they are worth it for me as a player who owns many smaller armies and plays Crusade campaigns almost exclusively.

I don't really see any of these books having a lot of value for matched players, and I don't think they're meant to- it's by design. That's what keeps them optional.

If you play matched, and you happen to play one of the subfactions that get supplements... Maybe you might want it, but it's a real stretch. Again though, that's by design- just like GW doesn't expect you to buy dexes for armies you don't play, they really don't expect matched players to buy these.

When GW puts out GT mission packs, I know that this is not a product for me, so I don't buy it. But I also don't complain about it, and try to tell everyone who is buying it that shouldn't, or claim that it's destroying the game. Somebody somewhere wants it, otherwise it wouldn't exist, but that someone is not me, so I just don't have to worry about it. Easy.

I think there are a lot of people who assume GW expects every player to buy every product. Naturally, people who feel this way might feel overwhelmed by the number of products available. But I assure you, these books are printed in far fewer quantities than dexes, because GW does absolutely intend for them to be optional.

I'm one who gives credit where credit's due, and I bought all of GW's campaign books from 6th/7th (and all the Apoc campaign expansions) because I wanted to support them doing more campaign content.

But the ones in 9th are a bridge too far. Not only are they split across two books, so if you want all the Crusade content for a particular release you need to buy the Campaign book and then the Crusade book, but most of the Crusade book's page count is just a reprint of the core rules.

I'd own every Crusade book tomorrow if I wasn't just buying the 40k Core rules over and over and over again.