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Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Hi all,

I’m finally getting my new shed setup which will be the place I do much of my hobbying including spraying models with cans or an airbrush. Of course you aren’t supposed to use spray paint indoors (or unventilated) and similar problems with Airbrush.

I was thinking of getting a spray booth to suck out the particles but I’m not sure that works that well with my shed setup so my questions for the group are:

Is it safe if I spray in the shed with the door closed, wearing a respirator mask and hoovering up the dust occasionally

Or

Same question but with the door open

Or am living ina dream world and I just need to fork out for a spray booth?
   
Made in us
Killer Khymerae





Midwest USA

Plenty of Modellers (not necessarily Wargamers) use Spray Booths so I'm at a loss to understand how you seem to think it won't work in your "shed" ?

Perhaps your biased about "forking out" funds to pay for something that isn't WH40K ?

For the record you can build a very functional spay booth out of plywood. In fact, LOL, I'd bet I could probably cobble one up out of a cardboard box and duct tape if I had to. The only *real* expense would be "Squirrel Cage" Blower/Fan. OK maybe a sheet of plywood too.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/01/18 11:44:45


 
   
Made in au
Grizzled Space Wolves Great Wolf





I wouldn't spray without some sort of extractor. Even if you just have the door open, if there's no impetus to shift the air outside the cloud of fumes will just hang around, at which point the question is how well do you trust the respirator. Keep in mind even if the respirator covers your nose/mouth, unless it covers your whole face you'll still be getting paint in your eyes which I can't imagine is healthy in the long term. And most respirators don't filter 100% of the air anyway, so you're still breathing something versus just extracting the fumes.

If you get a booth, will you set it up with the fan exhausting? Or just recirculating into the room? At that point you're just relying on the filters, which is not something I try to do, though I know some folk who do.

My first spray booth was literally just a 35 watt fan pointing out a window, then a cardboard box with a hole cut in one side and some dodgy sheets of cardboard between the hole and the fan to create a "duct" so that the fan only sucked air from inside the cardboard box rather than from the sides. Only cost a few bucks. The only real downside was that the window was north facing, so if there was a northerly breeze the exhaust fan wouldn't really work properly (which I could have fixed by ducting it to the roof instead).

To be honest it worked better than the cheap chinese spray booth I use now, because the 35 watt fan did a much better job than whatever crappy little fan is in this spray booth. My DIY 35 watt extractor was good enough to use spray cans, but my chinese spray booth doesn't extract the air fast enough to use spray cans.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/01/18 12:55:15


 
   
Made in pl
Wicked Warp Spider





First of all, there is a huge difference between cans and an airbrush in terms of ventilation efficiency required to spray indoors. You can basically forget about cans in your shed, just step outside and spray into some cardboard box.

Now with airbrush you have plenty of options - on low pressures and low flow with acrylics only you can get away with just a respirator and a damp cloth as a dust catcher. But with higher volumes of paint and bigger nozzles you should get a booth. Now popular cheap booths have normal, axial brushless fans and just a basic filter, so are suitable for acrylics only. If you want to use alcohol based or enamel paints, you need an efficient, squirrel cage fan and a proper booth with a duct outside.

There is one more option for acrylics, my go-to for my everyday low volume work - a Hepa air purifier. Those are based on squirrel cage fans and have two step, hepa + carbon filter. On highest speed, with an additional paint filter, a n95 mask and a makeshift booth it is enough for acrylic work without a duct and doubles as an air purifier for normal, household use. But again, this is for acrylics only, for alcohol based work I use a duct setup with a Dyson fan, so no electricity on a vapour path.
   
Made in us
Courageous Questing Knight





Texas

A box fan in the window forcing air out is really sufficient for most small shed/shops where some fumes may be involved.

You will find an airbrush will not spread as much of a mist around as a paint can, which does tend to have other propellants that are not good for you at all. An airbrush while using just forced air is better, the atomized paint particles, even acrylics, are no good, so a filter mask is needed, unless using solvent type paints, then a respirator should be used.

My Novella Collection is available on Amazon - Action/Fantasy/Sci-Fi - https://www.amazon.com/Three-Roads-Dreamt-Michael-Leonard/dp/1505716993/

 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Grimoir wrote:
Plenty of Modellers (not necessarily Wargamers) use Spray Booths so I'm at a loss to understand how you seem to think it won't work in your "shed" ?

Perhaps your biased about "forking out" funds to pay for something that isn't WH40K ?

For the record you can build a very functional spay booth out of plywood. In fact, LOL, I'd bet I could probably cobble one up out of a cardboard box and duct tape if I had to. The only *real* expense would be "Squirrel Cage" Blower/Fan. OK maybe a sheet of plywood too.


What I mean is the exhaust tube needs to go outside so I think I will have to cut a hole in the side of the shed like the bathroom extractor fan (if that mental image helps)
   
Made in us
Killer Khymerae





Midwest USA

In my Spray booth's I have always used a Plenum housing a squirrel cage fan ( this is important because at least in my case I was spraying *ANY* types of paint. Lacquers, Enamels, and yeah lol, Acrylics. And I use a dryer vent hose from the plenum that vents outside. And yeah, you can simply place the vent hose outside. But any fan used must be protected from igniting potentially flammable vapors). Box fans, muffin fans are all pretty worthless in this regard. I can light up the smelliest cheap cigar I can find, place it in the booth and you cannot smell it inside the house. That or smelling any Lacquer fumes LOL.

And someone said that respirators aren't totally efficient which can be demonstrably untrue. My Respirator is made by US Divers and I used it many times spraying Dupont Imron. Which is highly carcinogenic. However I will admit that most people won't spend the Money on a Decent mask :(

And one more thing, I Always use Lacquer thinner or even Acetone to clean the airbrush.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





I only want to spray acrylic paint and rattle cans
   
Made in pl
Wicked Warp Spider





For acrylics you only need good solid particles protection, FFP3, tight fit mask is enough. Spray cans usually use flammable gases as propellents, primers contain acetone, there are all sorts of nasty ingredients even in acrylic spray cans, so you need a booth with exhaust or do it outdoors. Moreover, cans have large output, so as mentioned above, you need highly efficient booth for containing can overspray.
   
Made in us
Grumpy Longbeard






mrFickle wrote:
I only want to spray acrylic paint and rattle cans


Sidenote -
Acrylics are more dangerous than oils paints, even-though solvent is just water.
Skin does not absorb oils as much as it does absorb water, and will absorb water-based pigment more than oil-based pigments.
So it much more important to wear gloves or wash off hands if acrylic gets on the skin than if oil paint gets on the skin.

Spraying indoors -
Most dangerous about spray paints via rattle-can or airbrush are the pigments themselves. For example: any paint that contains any type of cadmium pigments would be most toxic and breathing that in overtime will lead to heavy-metal poisoning (I know, death by heavy metal, sounds badass, but its not that type of heavy metal lolz)

I would recommend investing time and/or money into building a nifty venting, so you can work with airbrush at peace and feel like a pro. Btw, people still wear painters respirators like 3M alongside Spray box. All rattle-can can be done outside with a 3M respirator.
Check this out.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, you can see his vent setup for airbrushing from early minutes in the video, hope this helps.

This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2022/01/18 22:28:44


 
   
Made in au
Grizzled Space Wolves Great Wolf





nou wrote:
First of all, there is a huge difference between cans and an airbrush in terms of ventilation efficiency required to spray indoors. You can basically forget about cans in your shed, just step outside and spray into some cardboard box.


I partially disagree.

I do agree that spray cans create a massively larger amount of fumes, and the propellant is usually something you don't want to breathe.

But you can spray them indoors if you have a beefy enough extractor, it's just the cheap hobby extractors are usually too weak. I mentioned using a 35 watt fan (compared to your average hobby extractors which are likely only a couple of watts).

The nice thing about hobby extractors is they generally fold up, so if you can't have a permanent setup then you can fold them away and stick them under your bed or whatever. But if you're setting up a permanent spray booth, I recommend you just build it yourself. For the cost of a hobby extractor you can buy a fan and ducting, then build the "booth" part of it however you want.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
mrFickle wrote:
What I mean is the exhaust tube needs to go outside so I think I will have to cut a hole in the side of the shed like the bathroom extractor fan (if that mental image helps)


If you are building your own vent, my advice is have the exhaust pointing upwards and above the roof line. That way if there's wind outside, you won't risk the wind overpowering your exhaust fan (which could potentially blow the fumes directly back in your face if you get a gust at the wrong time).

With the exhaust pointing vertically and above roof level, if you get a breeze it'll tend to create a low pressure and actually suck more air out rather than fighting against the fan.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
nou wrote:
For acrylics you only need good solid particles protection, FFP3, tight fit mask is enough.


That's assuming you know what solvents they used in the acrylics (or check the MSDS of everything you use, and actually trust the MSDS, so many things haven't been tested enough to know long term health effects). And as I mentioned in my previous post, unless you're getting a full face mask your eyes aren't protected and will happily absorb whatever hits them.

From my OHS experience at work (and maybe other workplaces are different) a mask is always the *last* line of defense. You always try and eliminate the need to have a human working where they need a mask, and as a last resort you use a mask after reducing the risk as much using other means. If you genuinely need a mask, you have to start worrying about fit, air leakage, particle size, whether dangerous solvents are present in addition to the particles.

If we were talking about a good quality full face positive pressure respirator, I'd be willing to rely on it more, but those are more expensive than a spray booth (at least here in Oz).

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/01/19 02:19:35


 
   
Made in us
Deathwing Terminator with Assault Cannon






A lot of posters here are blowing things up into stratosphere for no good scientific reasons. This is hobby level spray painting, not a full blown 8-hours a day autobody painting shop.

Ventilation requirements for indoor spraying are based on the size of the room. The amount of VOC's one would normally be exposed to during hobby level spraying sessions can be reasonably mitigated as long as you're following general common sense.

For one, if you're spraying inside a 2'x5' closet with no windows, you really shouldn't be spraying in that space in the first place, even if you have a commercial grade fume extractor - it's simply not a suitable space to spray paint.

For a shed, a opening the door as wide as you can before the draft causes your spray to disperse too much will usually suffice for ventilation requirements. If you have a window where you can create a cross-ventilation draft, even better. If there are NO drafts, then place some fans near the opening to create a forced draft/exhaust

As for acrylic paint particles - majority of them will be caught by your nostril hair. This is actually what your nostril hair does: it filters particulates out of the air you're breathing in. The negligible amount of acrylic paint particulates that do make it to the lungs will be ejected via phlegm. Acrylic particles are not asbestos - they do get ejected out. This is what your lungs do - they are self-cleaning organs. Some paints do in fact have heavy metal however - so good practice is to check the contents/name before you use for airbrushing/spraying. Usually, paints with a metal as part of their name (i.e. cadmium red, cobalt blue) have heavy metals in them, so don't airbrush with it.

Obviously, better no VOC's/acrylic particles is better than some VOC's/acrylic particles, but science will tell you sporadic exposure to minimal amount of VOC's are objectively safer for your body than constant exposure to polluted air while living in metropolitan areas.

TLDR, practice common sense, get some draft or create exhaust for your space and you're good. And, just hold your breath for a few seconds while you're actively spraying.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/01/19 04:21:11


 
   
Made in ca
Librarian with Freaky Familiar






So if you wanna reduce the hazards, one thing that you need to learn how to do, and this is a skill i dont see a lot of people mention when it comes to airbrushing, is learning NOT to over spray.

Over spray is, well as it sounds, over spraying and basically putting WAY to much paint out into the air and over the model, If you learn how not to do this, you cut down on the aerosolized particles drastically.

To many unpainted models to count. 
   
Made in us
Killer Khymerae





Midwest USA

Here is my setup
[Thumb - 1109735-.jpg]
Custom Paint Booth

   
Made in us
Grumpy Longbeard






 Grimoir wrote:
Here is my setup


Yeah Grimoir, I saw ur airbrush box. Looks dope! How does it work? do you have a vent that goes outside?
Is it something you made?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/01/19 20:57:14


 
   
Made in gb
Resentful Grot With a Plan





If you have an airbrush you might want to consider whether you even need cans at all.
   
Made in us
Killer Khymerae





Midwest USA

Mothsniper:



4x8 sheet of plywood
Fluorescent Light fixture ( LOL that's how long ago)
Surplus Dayton Squirrel Cage Fan
Double Light Switch for turning on Light and Fan Separately
10 foot Dryer Vent Hose and fitting

And yeah it's not collapsible LOL. The major advantage of this is that it actually works. You'd be absolutely amazed at how quiet the fan is. And the front opening is about 26" Square. As a longtime modeller it was important to size this to the models I was doing at the time. 1/48 Aircraft, Large Ship models and Sci-Fi. So yeah, it's probably overkill for Warhammer Stuff. But who knows what the future brings eh ?


   
Made in us
Grumpy Longbeard






 Grimoir wrote:
Mothsniper:



4x8 sheet of plywood
Fluorescent Light fixture ( LOL that's how long ago)
Surplus Dayton Squirrel Cage Fan
Double Light Switch for turning on Light and Fan Separately
10 foot Dryer Vent Hose and fitting

And yeah it's not collapsible LOL. The major advantage of this is that it actually works. You'd be absolutely amazed at how quiet the fan is. And the front opening is about 26" Square. As a longtime modeller it was important to size this to the models I was doing at the time. 1/48 Aircraft, Large Ship models and Sci-Fi. So yeah, it's probably overkill for Warhammer Stuff. But who knows what the future brings eh ?


That is legit!
I just got my portable airbrush thing from greenstuff and was going to build a sort of a ventilation. Will go local junk reseller, see if they have any fans I can repurpose, thank you for sharing. Only tricky part for me would be fitting Vent Hose to a fake "window" section so I can put the vent into opened window and have it closed at same time, cuz it be cold outside yo.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/01/21 02:00:52


 
   
Made in us
Killer Khymerae





Midwest USA

Easy Peasy ... LOL Cut a strip of plywood that fits the window that is big enough to put the dryer vent in. Then open the window, insert the thin plywood and close the window. Think of it as a Doggie Door for paint fumes
   
 
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