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Made in gb
Stalwart Ultramarine Tactical Marine




Belfast

Hi - I currently have 1 pack of Cadian Shock Troops and 1 HW crew - I was looking to expand this to a 500 point army - I had thought to start with getting a command squad and another new version of shock troops and a commissar of some type - is it worth adding heavy weapons or vox casters to the shock troops or should i build them just standard - I haven't got a codex as I believe a new one is overdue does anyone know anything about the new version - would the start collecting set be worth getting or any other suggestions on building a 500 point army would be much appreciated - TIA
   
Made in us
Storm Trooper with Maglight






The long ans short of basically all of your questions is "it varies"

The loadout of your squads depends on what you want to use them for - naked guardsmen can be a cheap objective holder / road bump to slow down an advance, but have very little damage ability. On the flip side, a lascannon boosts the cost by a lot, but it is now essentially a 10 wound big gun that you can park fairly far away and make decent potshots with. The Heavy Weapon sprue is actually pretty versatile, and with some imagination, and making "one man teams" plus a few extra Cadian bodies (and bases...I think 60mm ones?) you can get close to one of each weapon out of a single HWT.

As for what to get next, it varies - first off if you play at a place that it is ok to do so, 3rd party models are *much* cheaper - Wargames Atlantic and other companies of the like sell groups of 24 sci fi troopers for less than GW currently charges for Cadians

Now, going official models route, it really depends on what you want out of the army - infantry swarm? heavy infantry? parking lot? mixed/balanced force? Is 500 points for small game play, or to build as an ally for a bigger army?

If swarm, just keep buying infantry. If heavy infantry go for the Scion Start Collecting box to net you 10 of them, a transport that can be built for them or generic guardsman, and the Commissar they pack with most every bundle. Vehicles - look up the ones you like the most to see if any are in box sets, I think the Russ and Chimera are the only ones really in a set right now though. A balanced/mixed army, the Defense Force might actually be a decent buy - 2 squads of Guardsmen, 1 Command Squad, 3 Heavy Weapons Teams, a Russ and a Chimera I think. Do note that I do not know if the new Cadian upgrade sprues are in the Start Collecting or the Defense Force.

As for what a new codex brings, that is a bit ???. I think there is a rumor of new plastic Kasrkin on the horizon, if you dig that look more than Scions for heavier armor.

So yeah, like I said, a lot of "it varies".
   
Made in gb
Stalwart Ultramarine Tactical Marine




Belfast

Thanks for the advice - the 500 points was for a small army on its own - I was thinking an Officio Prefectus Commissar, command squad, 2-3 troops including HW teams and a chimera or Leman Russ Battle Tank to start with dont know points values might look for a cheap codex online
   
Made in us
Storm Trooper with Maglight






Well, looking at your list of possible wants, and assuming GW official models, the Cadian Defense Force might be a decent thing to look at. Gives you everything you mentioned except the Commissar. No clue if it comes with the new fancy Cadian upgrade sprue, but gives you a tank, a transport, a bunch of heavy weapons teams, and the Command Squad which does have 1 of every special weapon and a few officer bodies to use. Enough that with what you currently have you could make 3 normal squads of guardsmen with 1 special/1heavy weapon easy. And like I said, the Heavy Weapons Team kit can be spread out pretty well if you can find extra bases. Just make some greenstuff or clay sandbags to fill in the open spaces and you can make it look fitting with 1 body per base with a lot of them.

For points, if you want to do just a quick reference to see what you want to buy while waiting for new dex, maybe just look at battlescribe or wahapedia. You won't be able to use either in a tournament, but for just a quick glance to see "oh yes I want that" it might be helpful so you can get a basic idea of what you want to get. Basically the prices of the units will vary wildly based on how heavily you kit them out - a naked squad is I think 55 points at the moment unless it got changed again, but with heavy/special weapons, voxs, etc you can easily balloon it up to close to 100/squad. Same with the Russ, depends on if you roll it with sponsons, or what you would build it as (note: magnetize it so you can just play it as any/all of them).

The Commissar is way overpriced for what the kit is, I'm pretty sure it cost half the current asking price a few years ago... I'd say if you really want a Commissar, either get it in a box set (either Start Collecting Guard or Start Collecting Scions depending on if you want light or heavy infantry - you can run both in the same detachment [currently] in game just Scions lose some of their bonus rules), or scroll on ebay for someone who either parted it out of one of the sets (on a quick check there are currently a whole bunch listed for 1/3 of GW's asking price), or is selling one of the old nice metal ones. There are something like 6 Commissars they had at one point before getting rid of them all, plus a few named ones - I think there are 2 female Commissar models and several male ones all told.
   
Made in gb
Stalwart Ultramarine Tactical Marine




Belfast

Thanks again for all the info - going to buy a commissar on ebay for £7 free P+P - the defense force might be the way to go or get the individual units at some stage - can you mix and match the different IG armies I see the Krieg army from the box set is to be released soon - would like a set of the new troops so i could mix and match parts - would want to stick with GW so i can use in my local store at some stage
   
Made in us
Storm Trooper with Maglight






I don't see why you could not mix the different troops - they are all guardsman. Used to be quite a few other guard squads out there that got whittled away over time. If you are worried about it, just run one of the two as say veterans to differentiate the quality of kit they get etc. Really though, nobody should care.

https://old.reddit.com/r/Deathkorpsofkrieg/comments/pd78sv/veteran_death_korps_of_krieg_sprues_transfer/

Quick lookup of the sprue brings this up, looks like the arms at least doable and with a bit of work the heads can work, just need to get a bit of greenstuff probably to give them a neck if you toss them onto a Cadian body. Not sure how the arms line up - depending on the proportions it may need work / look silly. Really the only thing that detracts from them is that rumors say they will be quite expensive - I think the (without discount) price in USD is going to be 1:1 for dollars to points before equipment is factored in.

With Cadians, if you want the bodies + like the vehicles in it, go for the Defense Force, if you prefer kit over bodies, go with the stand alone kits as those for sure have the new special weapons sprue. Sidenote if you are up to the job, you could always go the ebay rescue route. Sometimes you can find some really good deals, but you will need to often strip the models, fix mold lines, etc before you can start to get them usable. Might save a few bucks and fill out your naked lasgunner bits so you can use the actual kits you buy for more characterful setups.
   
Made in gb
Stalwart Ultramarine Tactical Marine




Belfast

Right thanks - sorry was thinking of using the Krieg troops as a separate troop or as veterans - would prefer models that don't need stripped thanks for the tip on the commissars - looked up to see what savings there is on the defense force £110 - if i add up separate parts albeit old troops works out £170 (i think the "new" troops only have an extra weapons and heads sprue" - thanks for your suggestions been a real help so far
   
Made in us
Storm Trooper with Maglight






Yeah the "new" Cadians is an upgrade sprue with new heads and all the special weapons - it wouldn't be half bad if they hadn't increased the price by 10$ in the process of adding it. I don't think the ones in the Defense Force has the new sprue as that has been for sale for close to a decade now and the price hasn't risen since the upgrade sprue came to be. Someone who got the set more recently than I (I think I bought it in like 2015, so well before the 2021 release of the upgrade sprue) might know for certain but I would assume it isn't there until proven otherwise.
   
Made in gb
Stalwart Ultramarine Tactical Marine




Belfast

The Kill Team: Veteran Guardsmen Death Korps Of Kreig pack is up for pre-order today at £34.50 for 10 men - i think you get most of the special weapons in the command squad anyway really just a lot of different heads - sent for a commissar on ebay for £7 last night. Do you have any advice on what way to build the 3 HW crews - 3 different or 3 the same just for general use?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/01/22 16:24:16


 
   
Made in us
Storm Trooper with Maglight






Advice on the heavy weapons teams is to save anything you don't use immediately - down the line if you have some spare guard bodies you have no other plans for it is trivially easy to use extra bits to make a new heavy weapon person.

On what to build in the immediate term, full Heavy Weapons Squads are not the most competitive choice if memory serves. Outside of mortars and their indirect fire, the rest have to expose themselves to fire in order to dole out their damage, and they are kind of an eggs in one basket sort of deal with the added bonus of having a paper thin defense. Hiding a heavy weapon inside of a squad of guardsmen insulates it somewhat as you can just remove lasgunners first. It deals less damage per point spent but basically turns the squad into a 10 wound heavy weapon, and lets face it the heavy weapon is the main damage output of the squad so it loses its efficiency much slower than a full Heavy Weapon Squad.

As for what to use, depends on the role you want. Noting who knows what a new codex will bring - if you want mortars, make a full squad of them and hide them out back essentially, don't put them into an Infantry Squad. The other weapons uses vary - but probably Lascannons or Heavy Bolters are the better options. Autocannons can punch light vehicles better than a Heavy Bolter, but hits the exact same vs t8 and t4 and has less shots, and Missile Launchers are kind of a jack of all trades, master of none deal - less effective against vehicles than a Lascannon and in exchange gains the utility of a Grenade Launcher (ie: not much).

Noting you have guard infantry and no tanks yet, I'd say go for some anti tank with some Lascannons for anti tank, since the only other option you have for that role is Meltaguns and Plasmaguns. Noting as you get more models will be easier to mix into squads, I'd say either go all 3 as Lascannons for now (for a Heavy Weapons Squad), or go 2 Lascannon, 1 Heavy Bolter (mixing them into Infantry Squads). Save the extra bits though so you can then build more of each as you get more guardsmen. As you fill out your force you'll be able to specialize your squads a bit better and give them set roles in your force.

It also depends on what level of play you are looking at, at a casual level you can get away with more than if you were going to a tourney with the stuff. Assuming you don't play with cutthroats who tailor their lists or netlist or the like, you can get away with a suboptimal choice here or there if you prefer the look of one of the weapons over the other.
   
Made in gb
Stalwart Ultramarine Tactical Marine




Belfast

Thanks a lot of info there - if I get the defense force will do what you say re 3 x HW teams together - could build a special weapon into each infantry troop and even just use as a lasgun if required - prefer to make models i like rather than super point efficient ones will only be playing in my local GW store at beginner level - might have a word with them re an ideas when a new codex will be out dont want to buy one and have to replace straight away
   
Made in gb
Stalwart Ultramarine Tactical Marine




Belfast

Could you give some ideas for kitting the Russ Battle Tank and Chimera weapons wise
   
Made in us
Storm Trooper with Maglight






My suggestion is magnets. They are relatively cheap and you can then swap out loadouts between games. There are some good guides on how to do it on Bollter and Chainsword that go step by step with the size of magnets, where to put them, etc. Maybe one game you want to roll a Demolisher with a bunch of Heavy Bolters with dozer blades and just spam shots downfield, while the next time you play you can just pop the sponsons off, put and go Vanquisher + Lascannon (note you do not, Vanquisher has never been good outside of some specialty lists).

While I'm find with glueing infantry, I feel that tanks and other vehicles are too expensive to *not* magnetize the weapon options at the least. The option is glue it as one loadout forever, or use all the bits and be able to customize it, which is useful as GW likes to swing the pendulum randomly on which one is actually useful. Back in 7th the Exterminator Autocannon was useful as a makeshift AA gun (that could actually hit anything on ground level, looking at you Hydra) just because it could throw tons of dice into whatever it did due to being twin linked - once 8th rolled around they forgot the twin linked part so it turned into a 4 shot autocannon.

https://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297605-tutorial-magnetisation/

Here is the tutorials from Bolter and Chainsword, goes through step by step on how to magnetize, where to put them, etc. When its a 50-60$ model, it is easier to go this way than realize you don't like the gun you picked and have to either start cutting or buy a new one.

   
Made in gb
Stalwart Ultramarine Tactical Marine




Belfast

Thanks again makes a lot of sense to magnetise never done that before so the link will be useful thanks for that as well - just need to order the defense force from my local GW shop
   
 
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