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Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut





Alright, these things have a habit of snowballing into an affair of heated hyerbole and wild comments pitched through the tinted glasses of nostalgia with a venomous vehement.

If you could kindly keep the posts simple and constructive, that would be neat but then so too would the ability to teleport from some perspectives.

Simple. If you could have three, 'reasonable', changes to CSM what would they be? Stats, strats, WL traits, a unit change. Go for it, but try not to re-write the codex. If you're going to comment, I guess try not to go twelve rounds. We can skip the things we know, ie 2 wounds.


1. Give chaos lords a 'dread lord' upgrade option similar to Custodes SC ones. I would posit one being a 'Path to demonhood' upgrade that improves toughness, strength and M by 1, a veteran of the long war upgrade that gives some sort of additional command aura (perhaps 1 of wounds, re-roll moral or extra objective secure benefits) and then something to do with charge reliability as CSM seem to be slightly combat orientated. Maybe allow all units (inc vehicles) within 6" to add 1 to charge, stacks with Slannesh.

2. Allow select units to receive a 'veteran of the long war' upgrade, obviously with varied costs. This would do something like give +1 WS and BS to give troops that higher reliability. Proposed selected units: CSM, Raptors, Terminators, Bikers and Havocs.

3. Return Marks as unit upgrades for infantry, dreds and bikes. Khorne: units have a deny the witch. Tzeentch: the unit can re-roll one hit/wound/damage dice per turn for free or if a sorcerer get +1 to cast. Nurgle: 6+++ or mini trans-human (no 2+ to wound). Slannesh: +1" on charge and advance rolls.

- 10,000 pts CSM  
   
Made in us
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle





In My Lab

Decent ideas-though the Khorne one is a little niche. Not TERRIBLY niche, but something that relies on your opponent, not you.

For me, I want Mutilators to kick butt and get awesome new models. Unfortunately, I hear they've been removed entirely.

Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! 
   
Made in gb
Lord of the Fleet






London

Bring back the armoury we had in 3rd-4th Edition.

Better transport options that aren't a Rhino or Land Raider. In fact, get rid of this whole "they don't get any new tech because they're Chaos and old" crap. It's been millennia, Marines have plenty of new toys and Chaos don't even get a bloody Razorback equivalent?

The book should allow you to represent a wide variety of Chaos motives through traits, Relics, etc. You could be fully dedicated to Chaos, or just anti-Imperium, or even mercenary renegades for example.
   
Made in us
Trustworthy Shas'vre





Cobleskill

1. Reprint the 3.5 codex with CSM troops having 2 wounds.

2. If (1) doesn't work, make a rule that anything in the Space Marine book lacking the PRIMARIS keyword can be fielded with the CHAOS keyword and <LEGION> & <MARK>

'No plan survives contact with the enemy. Who are we?'
'THE ENEMY!!!'
Racerguy180 wrote:
rules come and go, models are forever...like herpes.
 
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

Options that aren't restricted by the sprue.

Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in au
Slaanesh Chosen Marine Riding a Fiend




Australia

- Marks of Chaos that do something other than bestow a keyword
- Daemonic Upgrades for characters, 3.5 style
- Flexible loadouts, no Blightlord/Plaguemarine style datasheets

Add a reasonable monofaction bonus on top of the suite of legion rules we already have and I'd be pleased.

The Circle of Iniquity
The Fourth Seal
 
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut





For me, it's all about the Crusade content. I want strong, story-based pathways to daemonhood- with specific quests for each of the four patrons; I'd like corruption mechanics, I'd like to see cults become more interesting- like have rogue psykers and other extras they can take.

Just give me some good story material and I'll be happy.
   
Made in hk
Longtime Dakkanaut





I want more emphasis on our infantry models. I expect daemon engines to get some love, simply because they are a distinct unique part of the CSM codex. However, it should be only one build out of several possible builds for the codex. Our codex is called Codex CSM. Its not codex Daemon Engines. So, I want enough love for our infantry models to make them distinct.

Now that we can't soup individual sub factions, there should be no holding back. We need strong rules for each of the different CSM legions and renegade chaptors too.

Weapon stats needs a close look at. At this point in time, plasma guns, even melta guns, lascannons, heavy bolters are all hopelessly outdated by the power creep of codexes. I want mutated warp versions of these weapons that are stronger and better.

Just give all Chosen, chaos space marines of all variants their own mutated weapon profiles that are different from loyalist marines.

Mutated lascannon - 3+d3 damage instead of d6.

Mutated plasma gun - D2 normal, D3 overcharged. same overcharge rules.

Mutated boltgun - AP1 standard, Ap3 on wound rolls of 6s.

Mutated heavy bolter - AP 2, D2, 4 shots. AP 4 on wound rolls of 6s.

Mutated Reaper Autocannon - 6 shots, AP 2, D1. AP 4 on wound rolls of 6s. Hit rolls of 6s will autowound.

Mutated power fist - flat 3 damage.

Mutated power weapons - flat 2 damage.

Mutated chain axe - D2

Mutated chain sword - D3

The downside of mutated weapons - roll a d6 at the end of the phase the unit use them. On a 5+, the unit takes a mortal wound.

So, Chaos space marines pledged their souls to the chaos gods for power. I wish to see that mutated power reflected properly.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/01/26 04:28:54


 
   
Made in us
Gore-Soaked Lunatic Witchhunter







But I like the funny predictions better than the practical wishlists, they're more entertaining. (CSM to get their points updated to match normal SM, but without the second wound until an FAQ at the start of 10th edition.)

Balanced Game: Noun. A game in which all options and choices are worth using.
Homebrew oldhammer project: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/790996.page#10896267
Meridian: Necromunda-based 40k skirmish: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/795374.page 
   
Made in us
Warp-Screaming Noise Marine




Honestly if I wrote the 8.5 codex, besides updating chaos to their second wound, I would have just rolled hateful assault + dttfe into an extra attack on the profile, and made exploding 6’s a banner effect.

However, I would love it if they would put bike HQ’s back in the codex. (Bike sorcerer, Bike lord, maybe some others)

Give Raptors more attacks

Give chosen their veteran traits back.

Honorable mention: make marks of chaos unlock the ability to purchase god specific upgrades or weapons. In 8.5 codex I totally would have found no problem offering more free rules for marks of chaos as the codex was written to compete with the loyalist codex.

Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. -Kurt Vonnegut 
   
Made in fr
Crazed Spirit of the Defiler






For Slaneshmas I would like:

- New terminators: Noise terminators, mutated/possessed termies, some big and bulky power armour you can take in bombs of 10.

- Bring back the Sonic dreadnought and all the special lords (on juggernaut, steed, palanquin, disc)

- A new chaos lord kit with all his options and a jump pack.

And a plastic Lucius

-"For the Ruinous Powers!" 
   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba






hot take: CSM should not be SM with Spikes. If it were me, CSM elite units would be much, MUCH more elite than SM stuff (more on the scale of Custodes) and only the baseline CSM troop should be on the level of an astartes (as they are the 'newborn/rabble' csm and have yet to ascend via the gifts of the dark gods)

Theyre giving up the high technology of the imperium (all those fancy-schmancy new "standard weapon but better version" weapons the primaris get) for THE POWER OF THE DARK GODS.

Their weapons, should be the standard imperial weapons, until you get to mutated units like Obliterators, Daemon weapons, Possessed Claws, Warp Talon claws.

And those mutated units, the ones that sold their souls to the dark gods for personal power, should be more powerful than the imperial equivalent thing, and the core statlines/bodies of units like CHosen, Possessed, Etc should be more powerful than the imperial equivalent body.

It ain't gonna happen, I know that, but it is what SHOULD be the case.

"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"

"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"

"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"

"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"  
   
Made in ca
Librarian with Freaky Familiar






 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Options that aren't restricted by the sprue.

They hated this man because he spoke the truth.

To many unpainted models to count. 
   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba






 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Options that aren't restricted by the sprue.


GW's gonna keep doing what GW's been doing: Slow boiling the frog and trying to sneak in just enough of the Kit Virus to avoid major backlash.

My bet: Terminators and Chosen. Havocs and CSM stay unfucked.

"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"

"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"

"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"

"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"  
   
Made in us
Painlord Titan Princeps of Slaanesh




Considering the Chosen in the 2 player box that are coming out have 1 each of special melee weapons, I'll go out on a limb and go with DG type datasheet.
   
Made in us
Enigmatic Chaos Sorcerer




The dark hollows of Kentucky

1: Bring back Marks that actually do something, not just add a keyword. They should boost basic stats, and open up options that are only available for each particular Mark.

2: Bring back Veteran Skills and Daemonic Gifts, so we can customize our units without Marks.

3: Give our units back the things they've lost. Give Raptors back Hit and Run, give Chosen Infiltrate, and allow Obliterators to choose from different weapon profiles.

4: Give us some Crusade options that don't revolve around the path to daemomnhood or pleasing the Chaos Gods. Not all CSM are trying to become daemons.
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

 the_scotsman wrote:
My bet: Terminators and Chosen. Havocs and CSM stay unfucked.
I think the same will happen.

Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in us
Mutated Chosen Chaos Marine





Ohio

1. Several different VIABLE build options to represent the different legions tactics.

2. Don't restrict weapon options by sprue.

3. Make marks do something other than add a keyword, but don't make them so expensive they aren't not worth using.

4. Fun crusade stuff. Been playing crusade for 4 months now and my group is really enjoying it.

Tons!
Tons!
Tons!
2,000pts


Primaris Puritous Sealious!
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/790547.page 
   
Made in fr
Crazed Spirit of the Defiler






 Gadzilla666 wrote:

2: Bring back Veteran Skills and Daemonic Gifts, so we can customize our units without Marks.


You might want to check the rumour thread then !

-"For the Ruinous Powers!" 
   
Made in ca
Stormin' Stompa






Ottawa, ON

I've always dreamed of a chaos codex with a little more non-marine stuff. Some extra cultist stuff or traiotr guard/militia to make a horde army.

Ask yourself: have you rated a gallery image today? 
   
Made in us
Powerful Ushbati





United States

 Valkyrie wrote:
Bring back the armoury we had in 3rd-4th Edition.

Better transport options that aren't a Rhino or Land Raider. In fact, get rid of this whole "they don't get any new tech because they're Chaos and old" crap. It's been millennia, Marines have plenty of new toys and Chaos don't even get a bloody Razorback equivalent?

The book should allow you to represent a wide variety of Chaos motives through traits, Relics, etc. You could be fully dedicated to Chaos, or just anti-Imperium, or even mercenary renegades for example.


The stagnation concept of 40K works great in stories. It's absolutely dog-poo in terms of a miniatures game. You mean to tell me warpsmiths haven't been going nuts breeding rhinos with 9 legged tentacle deamons or sewing 50 heads on battletanks over the last 10000 years? So much potential cool stuff they could do, if they'd just drop this stupid stagnation story hook.
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





Lebanon NH


Alright, hear me out:

You start with your basic chaos stuff, marines, cultists, terminators, rhinos, etc. That stuff gets the usual upgrades to put it in line with "normal" space marine stuff.

Next step: TONS of customizable add-ons. Make it so that, if I want to (and I want to spend the points), my normal CSM can be utterly crazy custodes level weirdos, tentacles everywhere, four arms, whatever. Really go nuts with this.

The twist? Have a bunch of cool bitz on the new sprues, but the majority of this stuff is up to the PLAYER and how they want to kit-bash/customize their army to represent the mutations/gifts/add-ons.

You want CSM that look pretty much like normal marines but with wings/horns/tails? You got it. You want CSM terminators to look like piles of rusted garbage? Go for it, it adds points but has a built in transhuman.

Essentially: turn CSM into a mix of deathwatch and the silly kitbashing weirdness that orks used to do all the time. Maximum flexibility, maximum customization, utterly unpredictable in terms of what you will be facing when you play against them.

That's my ideal CSM codex.

Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk.
   
Made in us
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle





In My Lab

leerm02 wrote:

Alright, hear me out:

You start with your basic chaos stuff, marines, cultists, terminators, rhinos, etc. That stuff gets the usual upgrades to put it in line with "normal" space marine stuff.

Next step: TONS of customizable add-ons. Make it so that, if I want to (and I want to spend the points), my normal CSM can be utterly crazy custodes level weirdos, tentacles everywhere, four arms, whatever. Really go nuts with this.

The twist? Have a bunch of cool bitz on the new sprues, but the majority of this stuff is up to the PLAYER and how they want to kit-bash/customize their army to represent the mutations/gifts/add-ons.

You want CSM that look pretty much like normal marines but with wings/horns/tails? You got it. You want CSM terminators to look like piles of rusted garbage? Go for it, it adds points but has a built in transhuman.

Essentially: turn CSM into a mix of deathwatch and the silly kitbashing weirdness that orks used to do all the time. Maximum flexibility, maximum customization, utterly unpredictable in terms of what you will be facing when you play against them.

That's my ideal CSM codex.

Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk.
That’d be dope. But I don’t see it happening.

Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! 
   
Made in hk
Longtime Dakkanaut





I actually think its doable. Its like just have one common weapon profile despite the models looking like they have a mismash of weapons. So, who cares what terminators are shown to be equipped with. In the datasheet, they just have "mutated terminators weapons" that have a melee and a shooty profile.

Even loyalists are moving away from those standard weapons now, because all the new Primaris weapons have their own stats. So, I don't see why CSM still needs to be stuck on them.
   
Made in us
Terrifying Doombull




Eldenfirefly wrote:
I actually think its doable. Its like just have one common weapon profile despite the models looking like they have a mismash of weapons. So, who cares what terminators are shown to be equipped with. In the datasheet, they just have "mutated terminators weapons" that have a melee and a shooty profile.

Even loyalists are moving away from those standard weapons now, because all the new Primaris weapons have their own stats. So, I don't see why CSM still needs to be stuck on them.

Yeah, but the loyalist approach is literally the opposite of that and bloat the book with 4.5 pages of weapons. Each pointless variant of primaris (in general everything in phobos armor can be one unit, the flying guys can just have twin heavy bolter carbines or plasma whatevers or autocannons, etc etc) and has its own pointless weapon variation. Even the basic unit has three variations of nu-bolter and the gravis version has its own three variations of bigger bolters and three variations of heavy bolters.

They _could_ have done bolt rifles as the basic primaris weapon and called it a day, but intentionally went the other direction. They dove real deep into that morass.

Now maybe for 10th edition, they'll roll all that back, but for now, chaos terminators are totally getting stuck with the weapon jigsaw.

Efficiency is the highest virtue. 
   
Made in pl
Longtime Dakkanaut





1. Delete storm shields, storm bolters, thunder hammers, and all that other gak. CSM =/= SM and no access to the 'modern' weapons was part of the army identity since the start. Doubly so because they have options loyalists don't, turning them into SM+ is just dumb. They are supposed to be raiders/pirates, they should have ZERO access to any weapon that requires lots of maintenance and/or dedicated infrastructure as they would have discarded it ages ago.

2. Copy Tau mechanic of increasing point costs for spamming weapons in units. They are veterans of long war, not regimented IG with same-same mass issued gear, and the units should reflect that. In fluff, they have varied weapons (because CSM just likes it or it was the only thing he could get, see point 1), tabletop should try to have more of it, not all cherrypicked plasma all the time.

3. Bring back downsides. CSM toy with dangerous powers that give them strength but could betray them at any time, and stuff like spawnhood (or daemon weapons that could attack wielder) should be par for the course for their rules. Khornate units are more dangerous in melee not because Khorne is Santa, but because they made Faustian bargain. Decision to not assault should end up with unit eating mortal wounds as they go directly against will of their god. Etc, etc, CSM should have double edged rules because that is whole point of Chaos in a nutshell, and the writers have somehow forgotten it in past books.

Voss wrote:
They _could_ have done bolt rifles as the basic primaris weapon and called it a day, but intentionally went the other direction.

Still that stupid argument? Primaris is ONE thing GW got right in the last two editions and game design that went right for once. Three bolter variants on troop squad pretty much turns it into three different units, a gunline one, universal, and CQC variant, fitting all the different chapters and playstyles, giving it three viable sidegrades. Compared to it bolter, bolter, or bolter same-same gak of tactical squads/csm is so boring and uninspired (and largely contributes to tired arguments saying these troops suck, because they don't fit any legion/chapter other than the ultramarines/black legion) that it is mind boggling people still bring it up when reality on the table blatantly contradicts it. I sometimes wonder if people parroting it ever played primaris army because it looks like they have no idea what they are talking about
   
Made in us
Enigmatic Chaos Sorcerer




The dark hollows of Kentucky

Since when do CSM have storm shields and storm bolters? As for the rest of your rant......nahhh. What's the point of picking apart the rest of your fanfic when you start out calling for CSM to stop having something they already don't have.
   
Made in gb
Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon






For Marked Lords and Characters? Especially Veterans of the Long War…

Corrupted Oaths of Moment type things. Specific promises/pacts made in praise of the Gods to gain greater favour.

I’m not entirely sure how I see it working, but it’s a helluva cool concept in my opinion.

Random suggestion off the top of my idiot head that I’ve not thought through?

Snappy and thematic name here

The character has pledged to take the lives of enemy leaders, dedicating their last breath to their chosen God, in return for blessings from beyond

Each time this model kills an enemy character in HTH, add 1 to its attacks.

Could also be a “pick a benefit from a list of three” or even roll on a chart. Say, +1A, +1S, +1T, Restore all Lost Wounds etc.




   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka







...shouldn't this be a wish list for Satan?

2021-4 Plog - Here we go again... - my fifth attempt at a Dakka PLOG

My Pile of Potential - updates ongoing...

Gamgee on Tau Players wrote:we all kill cats and sell our own families to the devil and eat live puppies.


 Kanluwen wrote:
This is, emphatically, why I will continue suggesting nuking Guard and starting over again. It's a legacy army that needs to be rebooted with a new focal point.

Confirmation of why no-one should listen to Kanluwen when it comes to the IG - he doesn't want the IG, he want's Kan's New Model Army...

tneva82 wrote:
You aren't even trying ty pretend for honest arqument. Open bad faith trolling.
- No reason to keep this here, unless people want to use it for something... 
   
Made in us
Trustworthy Shas'vre





Cobleskill

 Dysartes wrote:
...shouldn't this be a wish list for Satan?

You spell it your way, OP will spell it his.

'No plan survives contact with the enemy. Who are we?'
'THE ENEMY!!!'
Racerguy180 wrote:
rules come and go, models are forever...like herpes.
 
   
 
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