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A friend of mine truly wants to play a minis game in the Warhammer AoS universe.
He's torn between AoS and Warcry.
A start collecting box would get him 750 points of Iron Jaws (he owns some already).

He wants my help. I'm torn -- AoS is a deep and complex game that requires practice.
But, Warcry seems to be getting quite layered with its army building rules. And, the icons without text
are truly hard on our old eyes.

I am running him through warcry in a few weeks. First. But between the two systems, do you have
any thoughts?
What do you truly see as more of a learning curve and complex to manage?

Edit -- he is a fairly experienced minis gamer. Loves Dust 1947, didn't sit well with Warmahordes.

Have they tried Underworlds? I'm always tempted to pick it up.

 Eldarain wrote:
Have they tried Underworlds? I'm always tempted to pick it up.

We played it, and he has an Iron Jaws warband that is useable in AoS and soon in Warcry.

We did not like the deck building, card acquisition aspect.

Aos isn't that　hard to get into. Start with small 1k games and you'll be fine. Ironjaws are also reasonably easy to play with

 Shrapnelsmile wrote:

 Eldarain wrote:
Have they tried Underworlds? I'm always tempted to pick it up.

We played it, and he has an Iron Jaws warband that is useable in AoS and soon in Warcry.

We did not like the deck building, card acquisition aspect.

Have you looked into the new Rivals format, which takes away the deck-building, card acquisition aspect? You play a pre-made deck (or, for newer warbands, the deck that comes in their box) and that's it.

AoS isn't particularly deep or complex, its fairly straightforward and easy to get into/pick up (though admiteddly can be a bit more difficult to master as there are aspects of the game which don't exactly play the way you would expect). The hardest aspect of it to pick up will be the layers of rules that some factions can get stacked on top of them.

Warcry I think is more complex and deep, but has lower mental overhead overall because you're managing fewer models and theres fewer layered rules - but fewer people play it.

If he played Dust he might find warcry comfortable as it makes use of symbol based dice rather than numbers, but if hes experienced with tabletop gaming he should have no problem with Age of Sigmar whatsoever.

AOS and Warcry are both pretty easy to get into. They are not complex at all by any stretch of the imagination. If individual was playing Dust, then playing AOS and Warcry is very much easier.

Warcry is more complicated than AOS but not terribly so IMO.

From a complexity and depth standpoint on a scale of 1-10, AOS is about a 2 and Warcry could be said to be about a 3 (again IMO, I play games like Squad Leader and Battletech and old school Warmaster which have a much higher complexity and depth rating in comparison).

Neither game is particularly deep, complex, or hard to learn. If you can handle one, you can handle the other.

The true difference is in co$t.
And to an extent prep time if you insist on having stuff painted before play.
Warcry? In many cases you can buy 1 box of minis (&/or go shopping for singles) & have a working force.
Pretty easy on the budget.
AoS? That one box & the couple singles? Just the tip of the iceberg of what you'll need.

Storage is another difference.
AoS? I've got (essentially) luggage dedicated to holding armies.
Warcry? I've got 5 warbands in a shoebox.

Maybe do both...

AoS Warrior set.
Warcry Core book.
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/08/25/the-warriors-from-dominion-arrive-in-warcry-with-free-fighter-cards-and-a-new-campaign/

...£57.50 for rules for both games and two warbands with free rules and a narrative campaign. I'm assuming that the Kruleboyz can be used together with your friend's Ironjaws in AoS, should that be more to their liking?

ccs wrote:
Neither game is particularly deep, complex, or hard to learn. If you can handle one, you can handle the other.

The true difference is in co$t.
And to an extent prep time if you insist on having stuff painted before play.
Warcry? In many cases you can buy 1 box of minis (&/or go shopping for singles) & have a working force.
Pretty easy on the budget.
AoS? That one box & the couple singles? Just the tip of the iceberg of what you'll need.

Storage is another difference.
AoS? I've got (essentially) luggage dedicated to holding armies.
Warcry? I've got 5 warbands in a shoebox.

That's more or less my answer.

There's no problem with starting to play Warcry as you build up to large enough levels of AoS, then it just becomes a question of what you play at the time.

I was actually looking to start that myself when I came across a local Battletech group that has pretty much taken over my miniature time and money.

Excellent feedback everyone. Thank you immensely. He's trying warcry with me next weekend, then we can get him a demo of AoS. I'm sure he will like one or the other. These talking points will help me explain some different expectations. Cheers.

Does the guy want to play a game with a ton of models, or just a small handful? I think this is the main question that he should answer, as this dictates where to go from there.

One should not play warcry simply as a stepping stone towards AOS. It should be played because they enjoy a simpler skirmish game.

I have no plans to ever touch AOS at all, because I personally am tired of mass miniature games that take forever to hobby and offer little in return for the effort. I get more satisfaction and a deeper appreciation of miniature games in skirmish affairs because of the narrative and because I want what each model does to matter more than just a things that adds +1 dice to the dice pool for the bucket of dice being rolled.

If youre pushing warcry on him so he can eventually use them to play AOS, then you're doing it for questionable reasons.

[edit] and if you hate the symbols, then I recommend the warcry compendium that is curated on the Warcry reddit. They use words along with the symbols for true disambiguation. Here is a link to the resource:

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1Luc_FSocKUrQQzkWUYg1rk6a7O0cTzl0

 Wiz Warrior wrote:
Does the guy want to play a game with a ton of models, or just a small handful? I think this is the main question that he should answer, as this dictates where to go from there.

One should not play warcry simply as a stepping stone towards AOS. It should be played because they enjoy a simpler skirmish game.

I have no plans to ever touch AOS at all, because I personally am tired of mass miniature games that take forever to hobby and offer little in return for the effort. I get more satisfaction and a deeper appreciation of miniature games in skirmish affairs because of the narrative and because I want what each model does to matter more than just a things that adds +1 dice to the dice pool for the bucket of dice being rolled.

If youre pushing warcry on him so he can eventually use them to play AOS, then you're doing it for questionable reasons.

[edit] and if you hate the symbols, then I recommend the warcry compendium that is curated on the Warcry reddit. They use words along with the symbols for true disambiguation. Here is a link to the resource:

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1Luc_FSocKUrQQzkWUYg1rk6a7O0cTzl0

Thanks for your input. He is versed in both skirmish and squad based games. As we played Underworlds for a long while, and AT-43 / Dust still to this day.
The reason for trying Warcry is not, "a stepping stone" to get him into AOS. It is not really a gateway game in that regards, as the rules are different. He simply does not know which one
he will enjoy more. So we are starting with lower model count system first.

Shrapnelsmile, have you and your friend had your game? Rather interested now in how you both got on.

SamusDrake wrote:
Shrapnelsmile, have you and your friend had your game? Rather interested now in how you both got on.

Greetings, yes yesterday morning we played two games!

The first was a demo, so I held back a bit. But soon I was in over my head and he took the match hands-down.

He loved it so much he wanted to play again, even though we both had crap we should be doing. The 2nd match was quite close, but I edged out a victory.

We played a modified version of Victory Card THE HIDDEN VAULT. I reduced the number of treasure tokens on the board, because we both had relatively low model count forces, especailly
him.

He thoroughly enjoyed Warcry. It said it was much more his speed than a big mass-battle game like AoS. In fact, after looking through his battletome for Orruk Warclans, he decided he does not
even want to try AoS. He feels Warcry is absoutely perfect for he and I, along with Dust 1947.

He dug out his four underworlds warbands and is already looking at picking up a few minis here and there to round out the Stormcast and others.

I feel he's making the right choice about AoS, although I do find Sigmar to be an excellent game. My son, for instance, has little interest in Warcry now that we play AoS.
There's a lot more meat to it.

Bill and I only can get together occasionally. He lives 40 minutes up the freeway and has teen boys, a wife, and a lot of other life stuff to contend with. He was very grateful and
excited to find something we can enjoy between us. A system he won't get overwhelmed with, and then end up selling.

Also, his first wargame was Warmachine / Hordes years ago. It was a poor choice for a beginner. There were less good skirmish games on the market back then, however.
So "Gotcha" moments in tournaments and competitive games really piss him off. I told him that the element can exist in AoS if you don't know your opponents battetome. He was concerned
about that.
Lastly, as Uncle Adam from Table-Top Minions talks about, he enjoys painting different models and this system does have a "buffet appeal." My friend is pretty stoked about having variety back on his hobby desk that warcry can offer.

We completely forgot to take pics, but here is the Necromancer I used.




I truly appreciate this very engaging discussion. My son said, "we'll get him to the dark side in due time" but I feel he's made the right choice for himself actually.

Splendid!

Nice to know it worked out in the end and might even give Warcry a try myself, if I can pull myself away from Frostgrave for a moment or two...

I enjoy warcry but found the way the game was treated/rolled out by GW extremely annoying. The unit cards were often difficult to find and out of stock. A lot of different books. Hard to rope people into trying that out unless they've already got a severe case of stockholm syndrome from the absurd practices of 40k.

My crystal ball tells me a new edition is coming this summer, which i hope cleans up and addresses some of those issues.

Ha, ha! Nooooooooooooo....

It'll be an even worse mess than the new Kill Team, of course and at an even worse price no doubt! And we'll all be saying "GW...you had ONE job. ONE. Seriously!"

SamusDrake wrote:
Splendid!

Nice to know it worked out in the end and might even give Warcry a try myself, if I can pull myself away from Frostgrave for a moment or two...

Frostgrave is a blast. With the Tome of Champions (for Warcry) releasing late, I am hoping we don't see a new version of Warcry for a little while yet. I love both systems, very different experiences.
Cheers.

Just an update, my friend and I painted some of his terrain from the new Warcry box set last night. our first game with 2.0 is coming up. Cheers and thanks.

So you're still enjoying it, then?

SamusDrake wrote:
So you're still enjoying it, then?

Yes! I do aos on a tournament level with my son and another friend.

My buddy i created this thread for embraced warcry as more his speed. So good times all around.