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Made in au
Fresh-Faced New User




I haven't played a game of 40K for some time now, so please bear with me here. I'm considering getting back into it, and I'm thinking of picking up with the T'au. I have some questions:

1) I like the Bork'an Sept (re: very scientifically-minded), however Commander Longstrike nor Commander Farsight are with that sept. If I were to include him in an army specifically meant to be Bork'an, would I lose Bork'an's sept traits and those that Longstrike/Farsight would normally have access to?

2) The Commander in an Enforcer Battlesuit sounds awesome. Would the lower Movement score (8") really matter though, given that it has increased protection?

3) If I have a Kroot Shaper in my Bork'an army, but he is not the designated Warlord, am I unable to give him the KA’CHAK’TARR relic?

4) If a Battlesuit is locked in melee with an opposing unit, can it use its ranged weapons, or is it sadly limited to just "punching" said unit?

It was still 5E when I last played with a T'au army. Back when individual septs were only names. I've kept up with 40K since then, I just haven't actively played games.
   
Made in us
Confessor Of Sins





Tacoma, WA, USA

Note the following answers are per the 9th Edition T'au Codex.

Shingaion wrote:
1) I like the Bork'an Sept (re: very scientifically-minded), however Commander Longstrike nor Commander Farsight are with that sept. If I were to include him in an army specifically meant to be Bork'an, would I lose Bork'an's sept traits and those that Longstrike/Farsight would normally have access to?
Placing units from more than one Sept in a detachment will prevent any unit in the detachment from gaining Sept Tenets. You would need to place the models in different detachments to gain their respective Sept Tenets.
2) The Commander in an Enforcer Battlesuit sounds awesome. Would the lower Movement score (8") really matter though, given that it has increased protection?
This is not a rules question. I can't help you on that.
3) If I have a Kroot Shaper in my Bork'an army, but he is not the designated Warlord, am I unable to give him the KA’CHAK’TARR relic?
The Kroot Shaper is a T'au Empire Character and thus may be given a relic. There is no requirement that character be the Warlord.
4) If a Battlesuit is locked in melee with an opposing unit, can it use its ranged weapons, or is it sadly limited to just "punching" said unit?
The Battlesuits ability essential extended the Big Guns Never Tire rule to Battlesuit units. Technically a different rule, the the rule itself is the same. Blaze away!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/03/05 05:07:01


 
   
Made in us
Resolute Ultramarine Honor Guard





 alextroy wrote:
4) If a Battlesuit is locked in melee with an opposing unit, can it use its ranged weapons, or is it sadly limited to just "punching" said unit?
The Battlesuits ability essential extended the Big Guns Never Tire rule to Battlesuit units. Technically a different rule, the the rule itself is the same. Blaze away!


Also note that the rule allows you to fire weapons, but not specifically BLAST weapons. Blast Weapons rules themselves - in an almost specific but not quite kind of way - prohibit Big Guns Never Tire from using Blast on models within engagement range.

Blast weapons can never be used to make attacks against a unit that is within Engagement Range of the firing model’s unit, even if the weapon has the Pistol type or if the firing model is a VEHICLE or a MONSTER – firing high-explosives at point-blank range is simply unwise.



That's not to say you can't use your blast weapons, but you have to follow all the other rules as well - you'd have to declare them against a unit that isn't in engagement range and clear your model out of engagement range before firing the blast weapons.

This isn't specifically RAW, but given the incredibly similar wording you'd be hard pressed to find someone who would agree Battlesuits can fire BLAST into Engagement range.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/03/05 05:19:19


My WHFB armies were Bretonians and Tomb Kings. 
   
Made in gb
Beast of Nurgle





 alextroy wrote:
Note the following answers are per the 9th Edition T'au Codex.

Shingaion wrote:
1) I like the Bork'an Sept (re: very scientifically-minded), however Commander Longstrike nor Commander Farsight are with that sept. If I were to include him in an army specifically meant to be Bork'an, would I lose Bork'an's sept traits and those that Longstrike/Farsight would normally have access to?
Placing units from more than one Sept in a detachment will prevent any unit in the detachment from gaining Sept Tenets. You would need to place the models in different detachments to gain their respective Sept Tenets.


It's worth noting that the new Chapter Approved War zone Nachmund: Grand Tournament book would, I think, prohibit having two detachments in your army with different replacements for the <Sept> keyword.

All of the units in a player's army that have selectable Faction keywords - that is Faction keywords presents in angular brackets that a player selects when they add those units to their army - must all have the same selectable keywords.

So if one detachment in your army replaces <Sept> with Bork'an then you cannot replace <Sept> with T'au Sept in another detachment in your army.

This only applies to matched play games played using the new Chapter Approved book, so if that's a problem for you depends entirely on the sort of games you play. For me in my local community it's very much expected that games are using those rules, but that's not the case everywhere.

   
Made in fi
Space Marine Scout with Sniper Rifle



Finland

When a Tau battlesuit shoots an enemy that is withing engagement range, does it suffer -1 to hit from the Big Guns Never Tire -rule from the rulebook AND -1 to hit from the Tau battlesuit rule? Since they are 2 separate rules.

It would have an effect if the Tau unit has some +1 to hit effects.
   
Made in de
Nihilistic Necron Lord






Germany

A hit roll can never be modified by more than -1 or +1. This means that if, after all the cumulative modifiers to a hit roll have been calculated, the total modifier would be -2 or worse, it is changed to be -1.
   
Made in gb
Beast of Nurgle





Trickster12 wrote:
When a Tau battlesuit shoots an enemy that is withing engagement range, does it suffer -1 to hit from the Big Guns Never Tire -rule from the rulebook AND -1 to hit from the Tau battlesuit rule? Since they are 2 separate rules.

It would have an effect if the Tau unit has some +1 to hit effects.


Big Guns Never Tire applies to units with the Vehicle or Monster keywords. I don't know all the Tau units but, for example, the Crisis Battlesuit does not have those keywords so it would get the -1 to hit from the Tau Battlesuit rule but not the -1 from Big Guns.

   
Made in fi
Space Marine Scout with Sniper Rifle



Finland

 p5freak wrote:
A hit roll can never be modified by more than -1 or +1. This means that if, after all the cumulative modifiers to a hit roll have been calculated, the total modifier would be -2 or worse, it is changed to be -1.

I know, but like I wrote: the other -1 matters if the Tau unit has some kind of +1 to hit -effect at the same time.

 PlagueGardener wrote:
Trickster12 wrote:
When a Tau battlesuit shoots an enemy that is withing engagement range, does it suffer -1 to hit from the Big Guns Never Tire -rule from the rulebook AND -1 to hit from the Tau battlesuit rule? Since they are 2 separate rules.

It would have an effect if the Tau unit has some +1 to hit effects.


Big Guns Never Tire applies to units with the Vehicle or Monster keywords. I don't know all the Tau units but, for example, the Crisis Battlesuit does not have those keywords so it would get the -1 to hit from the Tau Battlesuit rule but not the -1 from Big Guns.


Yes, but for example Ghotskeel is vehicle.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/05/29 15:02:27


 
   
Made in gb
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain





Cardiff

Negative modifiers are capped at -1

 Stormonu wrote:
For me, the joy is in putting some good-looking models on the board and playing out a fantasy battle - not arguing over the poorly-made rules of some 3rd party who neither has any power over my play nor will be visiting me (and my opponent) to ensure we are "playing by the rules"
 
   
Made in fi
Space Marine Scout with Sniper Rifle



Finland

 JohnnyHell wrote:
Negative modifiers are capped at -1

I know, but like I wrote: the other -1 matters if the Tau unit has some kind of +1 to hit -effect at the same time.
   
Made in us
Confessor Of Sins





Tacoma, WA, USA

Trickster12 wrote:
When a Tau battlesuit shoots an enemy that is withing engagement range, does it suffer -1 to hit from the Big Guns Never Tire -rule from the rulebook AND -1 to hit from the Tau battlesuit rule? Since they are 2 separate rules.
No. My statement that the Battlesuit rule effectively extended Big Guns Never Tire to Battlesuits is not an actual rules statement. It is a statement that the Battlesuit rule is basically a copy-paste of Big Guns Never Tire that works for Battlesuits instead of Vehicles and Monsters. For your edification, I have highlighted every word in the Battlesuit rule that is different from Big Guns Never Tire.
Big Guns Never Tire
A Vehicle or Monster model can make attacks with ranged weapons even when its unit is within Engagement Range of enemy units, but it can only make such attacks against enemy units that it is within Engagement Range of. In such circumstances, Vehicle and Monster models can target an enemy unit even if other friendly units are within Engagement Range of the same enemy unit. Note that if a Vehicle or Monster unit has more than one ranged weapon, you can still choose to target units that are not within Engagement Range of the firing model’s unit, but they will only be able to make the attacks with that weapon if all enemy units within Engagement Range of the firing model’s unit have been destroyed when you come to resolve those attacks. In addition, when a Vehicle or Monster model shoots a Heavy weapon, subtract 1 from the hit rolls when resolving that weapon’s attacks while any enemy units are within Engagement Range of that model’s unit.
Battlesuits
Battlesuit models in this unit can make attacks with ranged weapons even when their unit is within Engagement Range of enemy units, but they can only make such attacks against enemy units that they are within Engagement Range of. In such circumstances, those models can target an enemy unit even if other friendly units are within Engagement Range of the same enemy unit.

Note that if a Battlesuit model has more than one ranged weapon, you can still choose to target units that are not within Engagement Range of its unit, but it will only be able to make the attacks with that weapon if all enemy units within Engagement Range of its unit have been destroyed when you come to resolve those attacks. In addition, when a Battlesuit model shoots a Heavy weapon, subtract 1 from the hit rolls when resolving that weapon’s attacks while any enemy units are within Engagement Range of that model’s unit.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/05/30 00:06:22


 
   
Made in fi
Space Marine Scout with Sniper Rifle



Finland

 alextroy wrote:
Trickster12 wrote:
When a Tau battlesuit shoots an enemy that is withing engagement range, does it suffer -1 to hit from the Big Guns Never Tire -rule from the rulebook AND -1 to hit from the Tau battlesuit rule? Since they are 2 separate rules.
No. My statement that the Battlesuit rule effectively extended Big Guns Never Tire to Battlesuits is not an actual rules statement. It is a statement that the Battlesuit rule is basically a copy-paste of Big Guns Never Tire that works for Battlesuits instead of Vehicles and Monsters. For your edification, I have highlighted every word in the Battlesuit rule that is different from Big Guns Never Tire.
Big Guns Never Tire
A Vehicle or Monster model can make attacks with ranged weapons even when its unit is within Engagement Range of enemy units, but it can only make such attacks against enemy units that it is within Engagement Range of. In such circumstances, Vehicle and Monster models can target an enemy unit even if other friendly units are within Engagement Range of the same enemy unit. Note that if a Vehicle or Monster unit has more than one ranged weapon, you can still choose to target units that are not within Engagement Range of the firing model’s unit, but they will only be able to make the attacks with that weapon if all enemy units within Engagement Range of the firing model’s unit have been destroyed when you come to resolve those attacks. In addition, when a Vehicle or Monster model shoots a Heavy weapon, subtract 1 from the hit rolls when resolving that weapon’s attacks while any enemy units are within Engagement Range of that model’s unit.
Battlesuits
Battlesuit models in this unit can make attacks with ranged weapons even when their unit is within Engagement Range of enemy units, but they can only make such attacks against enemy units that they are within Engagement Range of. In such circumstances, those models can target an enemy unit even if other friendly units are within Engagement Range of the same enemy unit.

Note that if a Battlesuit model has more than one ranged weapon, you can still choose to target units that are not within Engagement Range of its unit, but it will only be able to make the attacks with that weapon if all enemy units within Engagement Range of its unit have been destroyed when you come to resolve those attacks. In addition, when a Battlesuit model shoots a Heavy weapon, subtract 1 from the hit rolls when resolving that weapon’s attacks while any enemy units are within Engagement Range of that model’s unit.


Thank tuo alextroy. Very precisely explained.
   
 
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