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We've had quite a few specialist games recently, but everything 28mm and skirmish oriented.I understand that there is some chance for lets say BFG or Epic (especially WH30K) but how realistic is this in foreseeable future? Let's say 2022 and 2023.

The fact that they have been purely focused on 28mm for so long increases a chance for sth in a different scale or rather decreases it?
Does new WH30K line (summer 2022) open the door for other titles or rather closes it?

Leaks regarding the new HH ruleset also suggested there were very early playtests of an Epic ruleset going on as well.
Battlefleet Gothic it seems has been shelved as an idea, at least for the moment, as the game was too different/complex.

So getting Epic in the next 2-3 years I think is within the realms of possibility.

Epic rerelease rumours are basically what I'm living for ATM. I feel like an updated version of epic, with current plastic kit making technology being what it is, would be glorious.

I missed out on the Space Hulk rerelease so I would love an update to that. BFG or Epic are more deserving, though.

I'm confused about this alleged 28mm focus with plenty of Titanicus and Aeronautica stuff being put out

Epic seems likely as smaller scale Warhammer is really having a renaissance with 3d printing and I am sure GW wants their slice.


if The Old World does well, I imagine official support for Mordheim will be likely.

I would say the likelihood is extremely high. 10 year ago it would have been 1/50 or even 1/100 but thing have changed a lot since then.

Following on from AT and AI you would have to say Epic is probably the most likely. I don't mean a full, Space Marine 2nd edition-type game with 100+ SKUs, but you can imagine something a lot more modest (perhaps - revising the original Epic Space Marine set, with Marines vs. Marines - tactical marines, command, rhinos and land raiders) would be achievable. This would tie in nicely with the BL books and other HH and AT releases and definitely has a certain nostalgic appeal to anyone that played the original Epic game. Are they aware of how well Epic is doing in the proxy miniatures and 3D printing space? Perhaps.

The big question for me is what ruleset GW would use as a basis for the new game. Necromunda and Blood Bowl had a very well defined progenitor system to base the new system on, the rules for those games worked really well anyway so it was just a case of some modifications that utilised the new kits that came along. With Epic there have been a number of systems and the game has changed quite drastically, from the original SM through to Epic 40,000, and they give very different playing experiences so it will be interesting to find out.

But, I am happy either way. There are already so many miniatures and rulesets available. It will be great if some new official miniatures and stuff do come along, and it will help grow the community, but the game and communities have lived for many years (will continue to live) without an official games.

The Horus Heresy( 30K ) seems a given, Titanicus needs a kick up the arse and its roughly about time for another print run of Space Hulk. There are rumblings of a new edition of Warcry, but nothing solid to go on and I don't see the burning need for it.

Given the crap going on at the moment I wouldn't expect too much more from GW this year...

SamusDrake wrote:
Given the crap going on at the moment I wouldn't expect too much more from GW this year...

Yep. Apparently they've got nothing to show off at GAMA (which is on now), and AdeptiCon might be on the light side (just the new 30k).

 kirotheavenger wrote:
Leaks regarding the new HH ruleset also suggested there were very early playtests of an Epic ruleset going on as well.

Do you have any more details on that? I seem to have missed it during the 30k leaks excitment

 Pacific wrote:
I would say the likelihood is extremely high. 10 year ago it would have been 1/50 or even 1/100 but thing have changed a lot since then.

Following on from AT and AI you would have to say Epic is probably the most likely. I don't mean a full, Space Marine 2nd edition-type game with 100+ SKUs, but you can imagine something a lot more modest (perhaps - revising the original Epic Space Marine set, with Marines vs. Marines - tactical marines, command, rhinos and land raiders) would be achievable. This would tie in nicely with the BL books and other HH and AT releases and definitely has a certain nostalgic appeal to anyone that played the original Epic game. Are they aware of how well Epic is doing in the proxy miniatures and 3D printing space? Perhaps.

The big question for me is what ruleset GW would use as a basis for the new game. Necromunda and Blood Bowl had a very well defined progenitor system to base the new system on, the rules for those games worked really well anyway so it was just a case of some modifications that utilised the new kits that came along. With Epic there have been a number of systems and the game has changed quite drastically, from the original SM through to Epic 40,000, and they give very different playing experiences so it will be interesting to find out.

But, I am happy either way. There are already so many miniatures and rulesets available. It will be great if some new official miniatures and stuff do come along, and it will help grow the community, but the game and communities have lived for many years (will continue to live) without an official games.

Agreed. There are already a bunch of rulesets to choose from, as long as we get new official minis I'm good!

I kind of feel the same way about most GW games - gorgeous miniatures, terrain and accessories is a priority. Plenty of legacy systems and rulesets around for playing with already. Playing the "current" ruleset is only a concern for pickup gamers and tournament players.

 zedmeister wrote:

 kirotheavenger wrote:
Leaks regarding the new HH ruleset also suggested there were very early playtests of an Epic ruleset going on as well.

Do you have any more details on that? I seem to have missed it during the 30k leaks excitment

It was posted in the HH discord. I relayed what was said almost 1:1, so no further details I'm afraid.

 tauist wrote:
Epic rerelease rumours are basically what I'm living for ATM. I feel like an updated version of epic, with current plastic kit making technology being what it is, would be glorious.

Epic release will never happen. They had the chance to do it when GW launched Titanicus but decided to give the community the good ol´ middle finger instead.

I imagine GW asking themselves "What gaming niche can we fill that has little to no competition?"

They filled the fantasy skirmish game niche with Warcry, one of the few original designs from GW in a very long time if you dont count boardgame designs.

Mordheim could still fill this niche without cannibalizing sales from warcry. Fantasy needs a solid campaign skirmish analogue to necromunda and mordheim was always good for that. They refined that space with Warhammer historicals, legends series. (Legends of the old west, legends of the high seas, etc) using a combination of LotR SBG and Mordheim rules, and they are fabulous. I'd like to see that be implemented back into Mordheim proper.

BFG is a niche that has been laying vacant for quite sometime, without any real competition in that area to speak of. It's still a great game. But without any support from GW, it may as well be Epic and everyone use the rules while 3D printing their models. Regardless, I'd love for BFG to return, and would love to collect an Eldar fleet finally. Or take my necron fleet out of dry dock and gauss murder some fools in space.

Speaking of epic, this is a niche that I think would be good for GW to explore. I refuse to play such games out in 28MM like GW want me to using armageddon rules or whatever they are called nowadays. But I would throw money at GW so I could see this all play out in appropriate scale. To me, 40K is best at 3 levels. Small skirmish scale ala kill team, large mass battle scale like epic, and macrocosmic scale of interstellar combat via BFG. I've given up on 40K since 5th edition, and have seen zero evidence to make me reconsider that stance.

What other niches? Hmm... Perhaps broadly varying the terrain offerings for different games would be a fairly easy avenue of pursuit. Warcry needs more verticality like necromunda enjoys, and this new sigmar influenced building stuff is just not gonna cut it. So fantasy is in dire need of terrain on the skirmish level that isnt just a building sitting in the middle of the table as seen in fantasy battle table set ups.
40K are seems to be doing just fine in that area, but I think it would be wicked cool to finally see some eldar stuff realized. Besides the webway gate atleast. Orks got their own terrain. I think eldar deserve it as part of the original trio of major 40k races.

So long story short, we need epic or BFG or mordheim. I'd prefer mordheim, but would also be ok if they skipped it and kept developing warcry into a better game as well, since its close enough to the design space to satisfy mordheim cravings. So that means epic or BFG. Both are concepts that I believe need development and production to keep some stuff in the GW IP and Copyright barn.

Most likely 30k will come up first, no clue what will be next. Very maybe the WHFB revival?

 Strg Alt wrote:
They had the chance to do it when GW launched Titanicus but decided to give the community the good ol´ middle finger instead.

No they didn't - AT was meant to a FW release, with 2 or 3 resin Titans per side. When Blood Bowl sold much, much better than expected GW gave Specialist Games access / permission to do more stuff in plastic.

 Wiz Warrior wrote:
So that means epic or BFG. Both are concepts that I believe need development and production to keep some stuff in the GW IP and Copyright barn.

Just before AI was released someone from Specialist Games said they wanted to do BFG, but the team wasn't ready to tackle something like that yet.

beast_gts wrote:

 Strg Alt wrote:
They had the chance to do it when GW launched Titanicus but decided to give the community the good ol´ middle finger instead.

No they didn't - AT was meant to a FW release, with 2 or 3 resin Titans per side. When Blood Bowl sold much, much better than expected GW gave Specialist Games access / permission to do more stuff in plastic.

I hope that trend continues. Im kind of sick of forgeworld, and even sicker of the limited availability of their models, like in necromunda and such. I see more things being ported in plastic like necromunda weapon sprues and this is a good sign. I just encourage them to go even further. Forgeworld and the prices they encourage are a blight. And honestly, their designs arent even that great compared to the plastic counter parts.

Mangler squigs (plastic) vs. the giant squigs (FW) are just night and day in engineering and aesthetic quality.

But I am going off topic here.

On a related note, the smaller scale Blood Bowl game offered at Barnes and Noble, Blitz Bowl, is so popular that its even getting an ultimate edition soon. I wonder if this will finally be a wide release by GW. It deserves it. The vast majority of the boardgames GW are producing for Barnes and Noble have been pretty good, or at the very least competitively comparable to other boardgames in the current climate of boardgame design.

Didn't Epic itself start as Titanicus that they then added small stuff to later?

 kirotheavenger wrote:
Didn't Epic itself start as Titanicus that they then added small stuff to later?

Yes - Space Marine came a year or two after the original AT, and that morphed into Epic when the other factions were added (IIRC).

Yep...
I think the sequence was:-

(Add to the below journal, magazine and internet articles expanding things)

Adeptus Titanicus (box) (Titans)
Space Marine (box) (Marines)
Codex Titanicus (Book) (Change to core rules + aliens)

Space Marine (Box) (Everyone? Or just three races, can't remember)
Supplements (Boxes of rules and cards, no models) (Each major army)
Titan Legions (Box) (Big titans and knights)

Epic40k (Box) (Everyone)

Epic Armageddon (Book) (Marines, Orks, Guard, limited rules for Titans)
Swordwind (Book) (Eldar, Orks, Guard)

Adeptus Titanicus (box) (Titans, Knights)
Lots of stuff (Boxes/Books) (Titans, Knights)
...?

Indeed. Adding Astartes infantry and vehicles seems like the next logical step after Titanicus.

If Valrak already passed rumours about new Epic being in betatesting last Xmas, I'm quite confident it is coming sooner or later. Starting as Horus Heresy only most likely, but expanding to 40K xenos factions if the reception is good.

 tauist wrote:
Indeed. Adding Astartes infantry and vehicles seems like the next logical step after Titanicus.

But they've already said several times that AT will be "walkers only", and the next stage will be introducing Xenos - a "War of the Beast" expansion adding Orks was their example. (Sorry - didn't mean that to sound as harsh as it looks. You did say after AT).




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 tauist wrote:
If Valrak already passed rumours about new Epic being in betatesting last Xmas

Wasn't that from the same 'source' who said the HH box would be New Years Preview Reveal?

AT may well be staying walkers only. But that doesn't prevent them releasing an adjacent Epic game.

As much as I'd love to see Epic return, I think it is a scale that GW are no longer interested in fully supporting. The closest we may get is GW adding Xenos and Chaos to A.T. and then adding rules for the flyers from A.I. This however will be years from now.

 kirotheavenger wrote:
Didn't Epic itself start as Titanicus that they then added small stuff to later?

That’s why GW came up with the Horus Heresy, it meant they’d only need to produce models for one race to cover multiple factions.

 stonehorse wrote:
As much as I'd love to see Epic return, I think it is a scale that GW are no longer interested in fully supporting.

I think you're right. Look at Warmaster or battle of Five Armies for evidence of willingness to support that scale beyond, what amounted to, a flash in the pan release.

Why does it matter, unless your hobby is not playing the games but specifically "giving money to Games Workshop"?

I just paid 5€ on a KS for a 8mm Necron army literally yesterday.

Because money is more than a transaction, it is a way to signal to manufacturers that the thing in question is what they should make more of, and support.

By people buying any Epic stuff that GW make in the future, it sends a signal that they should continue to support that system. Yes, models can be purchased cheap online from places, but it is the rules that need to be agreed upon. GW have made some very good sets of rules for this scale in the past. If they made another good set, I'd be inclined to pick it up.

 kirotheavenger wrote:
AT may well be staying walkers only. But that doesn't prevent them releasing an adjacent Epic game.

And that new Epic game will come along with no Titans? Or Titans in another scale so that you can´t use Titanicus models? Nah, GW won´t touch Epic with a ten yards pole. The best you can do is download old Epic rules and go to third party manufacturers for models.

I think what would probably happen is that for many of us here (that are really into Epic) they will buy the new GW stuff but keep on buying all of the third party releases and 3D printing stuff that is still being released!

And hey if the new rules suck balls, then we already have 4 other sets of rules that exist already and we can use instead. And that the tens of thousands already in the facebook and other social media groups, who are already playing Epic with or without a new GW release, will just continue to use.

Having said that I do hope the initial releases sell well and GW notices it. Epic being dropped as one of the 'core' games never sat that well with me, I always thought it was due to some poor business decisions and marketing, rather than any problem with the scale itself (which is so much better for representing large scale armoured companies, super heavies, titans and the rest of it), and that if it was supported properly it could be really popular. And having stuff for sale in a wargaming store, and readily available, will result in a lot more casual wargamers getting involved with it.