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WizKids announce new competitive skirmish game, Dungeons & Dragons: Onslaught  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
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Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba




The Great State of New Jersey

https://www.dndonslaught.com/

And you didn't hear it from me, but whispers on the wind say that Alex Davy and some of the others behind FFGs Star Wars games (Legion, X-Wing, Armada) were involved in the design of this one.

CoALabaer wrote:
Wargamers hate two things: the state of the game and change.
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Could be fun. That old fantasy flight crew made some great stuff.
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




Seattle, WA USA

Looks like probably pre-painted?
   
Made in gb
Moustache-twirling Princeps




United Kingdom

 Valander wrote:
Looks like probably pre-painted?


It says they are:
21 Fully-Painted Miniatures

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/04/26 18:05:27


 
   
Made in gb
Mighty Vampire Count






UK

Looks quite interesting :0 thanks

I AM A MARINE PLAYER

"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos

"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001

www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/528517.page

A Bloody Road - my Warhammer Fantasy Fiction 
   
Made in ie
Regular Dakkanaut




Well they have a web-site, so they are already one up on X-Wing 2.0! Seriously, not even a proper dedicated page for X-Wing on the AMG website after how many years?
   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran




Looks interesting, esp if it has the rumoured design heritage
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Riverside, CA USA

$139.99 MSRP? for a 2-player STARTER set? Oooof!

Why can't Wizkids just release a skirmish rules set for the miniatures they already produce? I don't need another "competative" game of pre-built warband on pre-built warband, especially not if it's going to be twice as expensive as a Warhammer Underworlds starter set. This looks like an even more expensive version of Dungeon Command.

Previews make it look like the rules may be interesting, but that pricetag, coupled with pre-built "competative" warbands is dissapointing

~Kalamadea (aka ember)
My image gallery 
   
Made in us
Experienced Saurus Scar-Veteran





California the Southern

I'd just be happy with the return of an updated skirmish game like the one that came in the old blind packs.
It's what brought me back to tabletop games in the first place!

Poorly lit photos of my ever- growing collection of completely unrelated models!

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/627383.page#7436324.html
Watch and listen to me ramble about these minis before ruining them with paint!
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCmCB2mWIxhYF8Q36d2Am_2A 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Myrtle Creek, OR

Heading to a clearance bin alongside the expensive kobold sprue boxes

Thread Slayer 
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka





Goodness gracious, those Kobolds!

Its like the CEO of Wizkids saw the GW price hikes, slammed their fist on the table, and yelled "WAR IT IS!!!". £50 for 7 Kobolds is a feat I don't think even GW is capable of...yet.

"Sonfabeeches...4 GROTS FOR £60, IMMEDIATELY! And I don't mean Forgeworld - we'll handle these punks personally!"

Casual gaming, mostly solo-coop these days.

 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





The Battle Barge Buffet Line

 Kalamadea wrote:
$139.99 MSRP? for a 2-player STARTER set? Oooof!

Why can't Wizkids just release a skirmish rules set for the miniatures they already produce? I don't need another "competative" game of pre-built warband on pre-built warband, especially not if it's going to be twice as expensive as a Warhammer Underworlds starter set. This looks like an even more expensive version of Dungeon Command.

Previews make it look like the rules may be interesting, but that pricetag, coupled with pre-built "competative" warbands is dissapointing


Oof. *puts grognard hat on* Who am I kidding.. It's always on! I remember when D&D two player miniatures battles games came with 16 prepainted minis, rules, dice, and maps and cost $20 MSRP! And don't get me started on the price of a Land Raider these days!


We Munch for Macragge! FOR THE EMPRUH! Cheesesticks and Humus!
 
   
Made in us
Charing Cold One Knight





Sticksville, Texas

 Kalamadea wrote:
$139.99 MSRP? for a 2-player STARTER set? Oooof!

Why can't Wizkids just release a skirmish rules set for the miniatures they already produce? I don't need another "competative" game of pre-built warband on pre-built warband, especially not if it's going to be twice as expensive as a Warhammer Underworlds starter set. This looks like an even more expensive version of Dungeon Command.

Previews make it look like the rules may be interesting, but that pricetag, coupled with pre-built "competative" warbands is dissapointing


Underworlds only comes with around 10 minis, and is nowhere as cheap as it used to be before the last few rounds of price hikes.

$140 gets you maybe two 10 man Marine boxes and a character (21 minis), so for a similar amount you get a dragon, monsters, two playable warbands (21 minis) and the rest game components as well ready to play out of the box.


Now don't get me wrong, not a huge fan of the price either... But compared to GW, Legion, Privateer Press, or Infinity... That isn't quite as off as one would think for a D&D branded item.
   
Made in us
Sadistic Inquisitorial Excruciator




USA

I don’t think it’s a horrible deal when compared to many of the other starter sets by GW and what not, especially because you will be able to get it for closer to 110 on discounters.

And while the minis aren’t nearly as nice as those by GW, they are painted (rather poorly usually-though a quick wash tends to make them look quite a bit better) and that appeals to a different type of gamer. I may end up picking this up as my Wife loves D&D’s interpretation of fantasy (and I rather enjoy it) if the reviews of the game are any good. Also D&D’s aesthetic of Black Dragons is fantastic.

 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




I enjoy reading people rationalizing price hikes as if they are necessary.

Anyone ever heard about boiling frogs?
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Has the quality of wizkids paint jobs improved enough in the last 15 years or so to warrant this price? I think it would have been more palatable if it was $100, more minis or minis+3d terrain, and was not prepainted. Conceptually prepainted sounds good-I am a lazy painter, but mass market prepaints just don’t hit the cost/quality sweat spot except for maybe buying your character or a few monsters.
   
Made in ca
Sadistic Inquisitorial Excruciator




USA

Wiz Warrior wrote:I enjoy reading people rationalizing price hikes as if they are necessary.

Anyone ever heard about boiling frogs?


It's not so much rationalizing price hikes, because this product has never been released before. The price isn't great, but it's not really any worse than other mainstream miniature games on the market and their starter sets. Miniature gaming has become pretty insanely expensive over the last few years, whether or not that justifiable due to everything costing more is debatable (I would argue the price increases in miniature products are far in excess of what they should be with other costs increasing....but I'm not the one setting the price).

Either/Or wrote:Has the quality of wizkids paint jobs improved enough in the last 15 years or so to warrant this price? I think it would have been more palatable if it was $100, more minis or minis+3d terrain, and was not prepainted. Conceptually prepainted sounds good-I am a lazy painter, but mass market prepaints just don’t hit the cost/quality sweat spot except for maybe buying your character or a few monsters.


The ones I have seen are definitely better than the ones that existed in the era of Mage Knights and original D&D minis where the paint was so thick it obscured details and often in the wrong spot. Are they good paint jobs? I wouldn't say so and I certainly wouldn't buy them if they weren't attached to a game that I enjoyed (and as such haven't bought any for over a decade). Though I was kind of surprised when someone I knew showed me some of the more recent ones he had that he had just put a wash over and they looked quite a bit better. From what I have seen the large the mini, generally the better they look. Overall though, I think any semi-experienced painter can do a much better job than what Wizkids offers without spending a great deal of time.

 
   
Made in at
Second Story Man





Austria

140$ for a Starter Set is a typical price at the moment
other sets have more miniatures (and less cards and no boards) but this has more to do with what the game needs rather than a per model price

I mean I can buy 2 of those and it is still cheaper than 1 Necromunda Set (were I need rules in addition)


Harry, bring this ring to Narnia or the Sith will take the Enterprise 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Riverside, CA USA

Depends, the Premium Wizfids figures are decidedly better than the random pack Wizkids minis, but still not great and very much not worth the price increase. The eyes and some details like tattoos or warpaint etc is screen printed or stamped-on for many (which looks very nice) and they can be touched up with additional washes and highlights. The ones I've seen don't suffer the awful glooped-on paint that affects about half of the Heroclix and random buy D&D minis, but they're way overpriced for such basic paintjobs. Some of the monsters are really really good like the amazing Icons of the Realm Adult Red Dragon, but I would have bought that model unpainted if it were an option.

Rando youtuber with a decent showing of the older prepaints



Prepainted is just not a selling point for me, I'm hoping they come out with a non-premium starter that is just the regular primed-only models with the rules and cards/maps/tokens. Unpainted minis are $4.99 retail for a 2-pack ($2.50 a humanoid figure) and the Premium singles are $7.99 each, so going to the unpainted could cut the starter set down to a reasonable price. Unfortunately, most of the premium pre-painted sets from Wizkids are ONLY available prepainted

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/04/27 06:14:30


~Kalamadea (aka ember)
My image gallery 
   
Made in us
Nihilistic Necron Lord






They probably sell that $140 msrp game to retailers for $130 too, because why do they need a profit margin?

 
   
Made in us
Using Inks and Washes





San Francisco, CA

This one looks interesting to me... I'll be keeping an eye on it. The newer prepaints are OK.

I play...

Sigh.

Who am I kidding? I only paint these days... 
   
Made in ca
Wraith






Milton, WI

Based on the prepainted PCs being $8, or the 2pks unpainted cost of $5, then the box cost isn't that high.
$96 painted, $60 unpainted.
Then add in the creatures for another $50 unpainted.

Gives a total of $110 for just unpainted minis.

So in context with the existing products, the price isn't terribad.

Bam, said the lady!
DR:70S+GM++B+I+Pw40k09/f++D++A(WTF)/hWD153R+++T(S)DM++++
Dakka, what is good in life?
To crush other websites,
See their user posts driven before you,
And hear the lamentation of the newbs.
-Frazzled-10/22/09 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





Don't worry everyone, companies go through cycles of thinking they can charge what GW does, before nearly bankrupting their division, or sometimes completely bankrupting their company, and realizing they can't. Will this sell well for $140? No. But do all the standard copings apply about how it isn't that much, a sports car costs more, tickets and drinks for a family of four to the NBA Finals costs more, this hobby's expensive, etc.? Yeah sure. But it's a smart price only if a bunch of people pay it.

I think it's crazy they've never put their roleplaying game into a box as a board game. Take what Warhammer Quest (1995) did, and then flesh out the roleplaying side since you're a roleplaying company and that's what you know. That you could charge $150 for.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Central Valley, California

 highlord tamburlaine wrote:
I'd just be happy with the return of an updated skirmish game like the one that came in the old blind packs.
It's what brought me back to tabletop games in the first place!


I fully agree, I'm disappointed with this . I feel they missed the mark here.
I just wanted a pre-painted, supported skirmish game again. A 2 player starter for
perhaps $60 MSRP, with future minis options for customization.

With this price tag, level of complexity and required time investment I wager this is going to flop.


~ Shrap

Rolling 1's for five decades.
AoS * Konflikt '47 * Conquest Last Argument of Kings * A War Transformed  
   
Made in us
Legendary Master of the Chapter





SoCal

 skrulnik wrote:
Based on the prepainted PCs being $8, or the 2pks unpainted cost of $5, then the box cost isn't that high.
$96 painted, $60 unpainted.
Then add in the creatures for another $50 unpainted.

Gives a total of $110 for just unpainted minis.

So in context with the existing products, the price isn't terribad.


$8 for a single painted mini seems crazy to me. I’m used to seeing tubs of painted minis treated like pyrite, where you can scoop handfuls into a bag for less than $5. Miniature Market is always showing me cheap prepaints (as well as some laughable not-cheap ones), and the FLGS has blisters of Clix or whatever with 6 for $20. Even if these particular prepaints are worth the $8 in quality, the market has trained me to scorn them.

   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba




The Great State of New Jersey

 frankelee wrote:


I think it's crazy they've never put their roleplaying game into a box as a board game.


Wizkids is a completely different company with completely different owners from Wizards of the Coast - though I get why its easy to confuse them. WotC publishes 5e, Wizkids has a license to produce miniatures and other games based on the D&D property.

That being said, Wizkids has published DnD adventures in board game format, not sure if they use the 5e ruleset as a basis for the games design or not, but its something.

CoALabaer wrote:
Wargamers hate two things: the state of the game and change.
 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





chaos0xomega wrote:
 frankelee wrote:


I think it's crazy they've never put their roleplaying game into a box as a board game.


Wizkids is a completely different company with completely different owners from Wizards of the Coast - though I get why its easy to confuse them. WotC publishes 5e, Wizkids has a license to produce miniatures and other games based on the D&D property.

That being said, Wizkids has published DnD adventures in board game format, not sure if they use the 5e ruleset as a basis for the games design or not, but its something.


Fair point, though in my defense I was just thinking of "the guys who could do that," when I made my comment. With a vague assumption that the promise of making money paves a road to most destinations in business. I have looked into their series of D&D board games, but that just furthered my surprise because they're not really taking the D&D experience and putting in a box with minis, as the rules are different and there's no real extra gameplay outside of the minis and tiles like there was with Warhammer Quest. Not every executive would see that as a great idea though, I suppose, especially if they didn't personally grow up with GW-style games.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Riverside, CA USA

chaos0xomega wrote:
 frankelee wrote:

I think it's crazy they've never put their roleplaying game into a box as a board game.


Wizkids is a completely different company with completely different owners from Wizards of the Coast - though I get why its easy to confuse them. WotC publishes 5e, Wizkids has a license to produce miniatures and other games based on the D&D property.

That being said, Wizkids has published DnD adventures in board game format, not sure if they use the 5e ruleset as a basis for the games design or not, but its something.


They absolutely could, and SHOULD have. Long rambling about Wizkids licensing and how it should/could have gone:

Spoiler:

Wizkids have been the masters of licensing great lines with awful rules for 20 years, from the very first Heroclix set through Battletech through D&D. They've navigated licenses for comics and TV and movies and video games and even real sports. Started with Marvel and DC heroclix, but they've done baseball, Star Trek, wrestling, LotR, Nascar, TMNT, Transformers, D&D, My Little Pony, Street Fighter, plus tons more. Their original rulesets are generally mediocre at best, but they also license a lot of good game systems, most famously the X-Wing rules for Star Trek Attack wing and also (highly relevant): D&D Attack Wing. They've also licensed the very excellent Spartacus Boardgame rules for their X-Men board game, released a Star Trek game reskin of their own Mage Knight boardgame, and a whole bunch of others. And of course the Wizkids' Tomb of Annihilation uses the same rules and token/tiles/cards as the Wotc D&D boardgames, it's a direct expansion to the WotC series. Wizkids is very, very good at obtaining licensing for both IPs and for licensing game mechanics.

All that to say: if Wizkids wanted to release a boardgame or minis game that used straight-up D&D rules, they could easily have done so. If Wizkids had wanted to release a skirmish game that used slightly modified D&D RPG rules, they could have easily done so. Onslaught does at least look like it's a D20 roll to hit vs a target AC, but it still uses icons for attack characteristics and uses blood icons instead of saying HP, etc. The character cards previewed don't look like D&D stats, whereas the old D&D minis game very much looked like a mini character sheet.

And most importantly, this still misses what all of the WotC D&D boardgames and D&D Minis game have all missed: the most endearing aspect of any RPG is creating a character. Creating YOUR character, with a name and a background for whatever particular race and gender and class and weapons you fancy. An RPG skirmish should ideally include this, IMO. There's tons of 3rd party skirmish and dungeoncrawlers that understand this: A Song of Blades and Heroes, Frostgrave, Rangers of Shadowdeep, Lasting Tales and League of Dungeoneers, Pulp Alley, 5 Leagues/5 parsecs, Galactic Heroes, Core Space, and dozens more, all games with basic character creation. Even Heroquest has a space on the sheet to write down your Barbarian's name. Just look at how many human fighters are in the Nolzur's line alone, or elven rangers/paladins/thieves/mages etc. Wizkids clearly understands player desires for different versions of the same race/class that fits their mental image, but they failed to make a skirmish game that taps the same energy even though the perfect components are already on store shelves.


TL/DR: Wizkids is trying to create a new premium game that still misses the mark, when instead a version of the regular D&D rules that have been pared down to a skirmish wargame and using their existing line of miniatures would have been ideal.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And don't get me wrong, Onslaught looks interesting, it's just that it looks mildly interesting when a proper D&D skirmish game using pared down 5e rules and the existing Nolzur's line would have been red-hot-fire amazing

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/04/27 18:12:45


~Kalamadea (aka ember)
My image gallery 
   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba




The Great State of New Jersey

 Kalamadea wrote:
All that to say: if Wizkids wanted to release a boardgame or minis game that used straight-up D&D rules, they could easily have done so. If Wizkids had wanted to release a skirmish game that used slightly modified D&D RPG rules, they could have easily done so.


Point of fact, they could not. Don't ask me why because I will not say (other than it being an issue of licensing and approval) but if you're curious as to what my source is you can look up my location indicated in my Dakka profile and cross reference that with where wizkids is headquartered.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/04/27 18:16:12


CoALabaer wrote:
Wargamers hate two things: the state of the game and change.
 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut



London

So if its FFG design ideas, I am guessing lots of little bits of cardboard and cards?
   
 
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