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Made in de
Longtime Dakkanaut





Hello guys,

I just watched three videos from GMG and was honestly a bit baffled. The basic rules (a mix of 40K 3rd - 7th) included a lot of sensible stuff to my surprise. A few examples would be a new ballistic to hit table, reaction system which serves as a very good substitute for alternate activation and USRs.

However I was let down by the rather lacklustre availability of mission types. There were only six different generic missions in combination with six different ways of setting up the table. Why is this bad? Well, I am not very familiar with HH although I read a lot of times that this game has a strong emphasis on historic battle. This may be true or not. Idk honestly. Though should this be the case I would have expected scenarios en masse such as describing who fought who with a detailed list of units and extraordinary mission details.

So you couldn´t choose what to bring to the table but had to use units which took place in that historic battle. Just like in old WHFB times when Skarsnik tried to storm a dwarf keep with a huge army. The used army lists were printed back in the day in WD and laid the foundation for a very different way of playing the game. Though this approach might be antiquated as WD functions nowadays as a pure advertisement service instead of being a hobby magazine. I would expect GW to print HH supplements to illustrate important battles of this civil war. The most famous instance being the Istvaan V dropzone massacre although I must attest collecting minis for all armies involved would be a daunting tasks for HH and better be represented by Epic. Nevertheless there would be numerous other occasions were battles such as these could be fought. Has GW printed such a mission book for the first edition of the game? If not it is imo a missed opportunity.

And now back to the legions themselves. Should I ever decide to give HH a try or just collect a few minis for painting my choice would be space marines who prefer to let the opposition starve at their outstretched arm. So the emphasis would be on tacticals trying to create overlapping fire zones while keeping their distance. Having just watched the GMG batrep I was reminded of this still being Warhammer meaning my idea might be foolhardy as both armies were advancing towards each other until they met in the middle for the unavoidable belly bounce. Why? Well, killing stuff is still easier in melee than in ranged combat with bolters. Although the reaction system might be useful in this regard as units can either overwatch or move back when opponents are too close by. So which legion can use tacticals best in ranged combat?

Last but not least we need to talk about painting. I don´t have much time nowadays and all the new HH painting tutorials have displayed edge highlighting as a technique which takes endless hours and your sanity. Are there any good candidates to use a drybrushing technique? I know people might want to sell me right now any kinds of contrast colours though I would prefer to use my existing collection of paints for any future project.

That´s all for now.
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





 Strg Alt wrote:


Last but not least we need to talk about painting. I don´t have much time nowadays and all the new HH painting tutorials have displayed edge highlighting as a technique which takes endless hours and your sanity. Are there any good candidates to use a drybrushing technique? I know people might want to sell me right now any kinds of contrast colours though I would prefer to use my existing collection of paints for any future project.



I'm a big fan of drybrushed metallics myself; gives a nice worn armor look. Also, going off of the following tutorial gives a nice transition from light to dark: https://youtu.be/JjWgwoEFgv8

I also painted a World Eaters beakie awhile back, with no edge highlights on the white of the armor. Because I was working with colors that were fairly close together, I could get away with just layering the brightest white on high areas and just letting the sponged on battle damage hide the sharpest transitions.

Also, with edge highlights, you don't need to edge highlight Every Single Edge like GW does, just highlight the upper edges (and even then, if it's an edge that would naturally be in shadow, you don't have to go unnaturally bright).

 Strg Alt wrote:


And now back to the legions themselves. Should I ever decide to give HH a try or just collect a few minis for painting my choice would be space marines who prefer to let the opposition starve at their outstretched arm. So the emphasis would be on tacticals trying to create overlapping fire zones while keeping their distance. Having just watched the GMG batrep I was reminded of this still being Warhammer meaning my idea might be foolhardy as both armies were advancing towards each other until they met in the middle for the unavoidable belly bounce. Why? Well, killing stuff is still easier in melee than in ranged combat with bolters. Although the reaction system might be useful in this regard as units can either overwatch or move back when opponents are too close by. So which legion can use tacticals best in ranged combat?



You have some options, both thematically and rules-wise.

Iron Warriors: This fits both rules wise and thematically. They get a flat bonus in the strength of shooting attacks against vehicles in game. In the fluff, they were all about siege attrition, with lots of guns hammering at their foes while their rank and file poked and prodded for weaknesses.

Imperial Fists: The other siege Legion. In the fluff, they were more about defense or using engineering to dismantle enemy fortifications (though the Iron Warriors did this too). In game they get +1 Ballistic Skill when shooting Bolt and auto weapons. Given how much of each are in Heresy, and that this boosts their basic tacticals, this is VERY strong. So if you pick them, don't go overboard and be prepared to paint a lot of yellow.

Iron Hands: Fluff wise they were all about Armored Assaults, so a fair mix of Infantry ans Vehicles. Rules wise they're more survivable, with a -1 Strength to incoming shooting attacks against Infantry and vehicles getting IWND (heal 1 wound) on a 6+ at the end of their turn.

Ultramarines: Pretty much flexible in tactics as can be fluff-wise. Leaks seem to indicate they'll have the same rule as before: +1 to hit against units that have already taken fire from a friendly Ultramarines unit within 6".

Thousand Sons: Rules haven't come out yet, but last edition they were all about them Psychic powers. From what I recall in the fluff, while they won't avoid close-combat, they did seem more capable of blasting from afar.

Alpha Legion: Fluff-wise don't shy away from close combat but don't focus on it either. They're all about sowing discord and striking hard while the enemy is in chaos. No rules released for them, but leaks suggest they just get to pick rules from another Legion.

   
Made in gb
Preparing the Invasion of Terra






 Strg Alt wrote:
However I was let down by the rather lacklustre availability of mission types. There were only six different generic missions in combination with six different ways of setting up the table. Why is this bad? Well, I am not very familiar with HH although I read a lot of times that this game has a strong emphasis on historic battle. This may be true or not. Idk honestly. Though should this be the case I would have expected scenarios en masse such as describing who fought who with a detailed list of units and extraordinary mission details.

HH has always had 6 missions with 6 deployment types, same as 6/7th 40k when it was released. Specific reenactments are found in the Black Books or Exemplary Battles as optional scenarios.
HH is also not a historical setting and battles/campaigns generally don't have exact numbers or units outside of the "leaders" of a given event. For example, the Xana II campaign details that Blackshields under Endryd Harr were about 1000 strong but the Shattered Legions and Dark Angels are left ambiguous, alongside the Xanaite Mechanicum force size.
HH might be set in 40k's past but it's not a historical game in the same way as Black Powder or Bolt Action, it's still a sandbox where people can still play "Their Dudes" within the wider narrative.

So you couldn´t choose what to bring to the table but had to use units which took place in that historic battle. Just like in old WHFB times when Skarsnik tried to storm a dwarf keep with a huge army. The used army lists were printed back in the day in WD and laid the foundation for a very different way of playing the game. Though this approach might be antiquated as WD functions nowadays as a pure advertisement service instead of being a hobby magazine. I would expect GW to print HH supplements to illustrate important battles of this civil war. The most famous instance being the Istvaan V dropzone massacre although I must attest collecting minis for all armies involved would be a daunting tasks for HH and better be represented by Epic. Nevertheless there would be numerous other occasions were battles such as these could be fought. Has GW printed such a mission book for the first edition of the game? If not it is imo a missed opportunity.

My guy, you have described the HH gamebooks. That is literally what they were for. But they were only restrictive in the sense of characters and sometimes specific forces i.e. Lorgar wasn't at Calth or Dorn wasn't at Phall.
   
Made in de
Longtime Dakkanaut





Are the legion traits flat boni or do they come with a cost? IF & IH seem to be very powerful. Maybe even too powerful. How does pinning work in HH and what kind of weapons can cause pinning? News said the Night Lords would gain an advantage when attacking pinned and fleeing troops.

I already painted yellow for my Bad Moonz. White undercoat, golden yellow, sunburst yellow and white edge highlights. Colour REALLY pops but you need to be precise all the time. Also time consuming. One of my custom SM chapters from 4th 40K had the apothecary trait. It made them basically harder to kill just like the IH. In addition they were also painted in black with grey edge highlights. LOL!

Did the first edition of HH have rules for units gaining XP for campaign play? How elaborate were the chaos cult lists? Were they similar to 40K?
   
Made in gb
Preparing the Invasion of Terra






 Strg Alt wrote:
Are the legion traits flat boni or do they come with a cost? IF & IH seem to be very powerful. Maybe even too powerful. How does pinning work in HH and what kind of weapons can cause pinning? News said the Night Lords would gain an advantage when attacking pinned and fleeing troops.

Not sure because the rules aren't out yet.

Did the first edition of HH have rules for units gaining XP for campaign play? How elaborate were the chaos cult lists? Were they similar to 40K?

1 - Possibly in some campaigns but not all.
2 - The Cults and Militia list is the most customisable army in HH. Generic units were the same but Provences (sort of like army traits) and the lack of a specific model line mean you can do whatever you want. If you want your army to be made of Orks you can. If you want them to be a raging Cultist mob with Minotaurs as Ogryn you can. If you want Squats, guess what? You can!
   
Made in de
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Gert wrote:
 Strg Alt wrote:
Are the legion traits flat boni or do they come with a cost? IF & IH seem to be very powerful. Maybe even too powerful. How does pinning work in HH and what kind of weapons can cause pinning? News said the Night Lords would gain an advantage when attacking pinned and fleeing troops.

Not sure because the rules aren't out yet.

Did the first edition of HH have rules for units gaining XP for campaign play? How elaborate were the chaos cult lists? Were they similar to 40K?

1 - Possibly in some campaigns but not all.
2 - The Cults and Militia list is the most customisable army in HH. Generic units were the same but Provences (sort of like army traits) and the lack of a specific model line mean you can do whatever you want. If you want your army to be made of Orks you can. If you want them to be a raging Cultist mob with Minotaurs as Ogryn you can. If you want Squats, guess what? You can!


Ash from GMG already has reviewed the rulebook for the new edition. It´s a mix of 3rd-7th 40K with the major new rule including the reaction system. AFAIK pinning required from 3rd - 5th 40K either artillery weapons or sniper rifles. So I am a bit perplexed how the Night Lords want to pin their foes when their only hope would be to take the 30K equivalent of a Whirlwind. The only sensible thing would be to make pinning available to more weapon types as otherwise the legion trait of the NL would be VERY weak.


   
Made in gb
Preparing the Invasion of Terra






Well again, the rules aren't out so I don't know what does and doesn't have pinning.
   
Made in gb
Secretive Dark Angels Veteran





 Strg Alt wrote:

Last but not least we need to talk about painting. I don´t have much time nowadays and all the new HH painting tutorials have displayed edge highlighting as a technique which takes endless hours and your sanity.


You sound like a similar painter to me

Whenever I see them edge highlighting in a video, I always hear 'drybrush this bit'. You get 80% of the overall effect and it is way, way quicker...

So, basically, if you follow one of those guides, do what they say until you hit the edge highlighting, and then grab your small drybrush. Proceed from there.

40k and Age of Sigmar Blog - A Tabletop Gamer's Diary: https://ttgamingdiary.wordpress.com/

Mongoose Publishing: http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/ 
   
Made in ca
Commander of the Mysterious 2nd Legion





I find dry brushing also looks more natural then a lot of edge highlighting.

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in de
Longtime Dakkanaut





So I have done four test minis so far. As a basis I used 2nd Blood Angels Death Company (metal figures) miniatures. Here we go:

Link:
https://ibb.co/album/XD3N67

Blood Angel:
1. White Basecoat
2. Blood Red
3. Red Ink
4. Blazing Orange (Highlight)
5. Agrax Earthshade Ink
6. Blazing Orange (Highlight)

This was a quick and dirty BA. Unsurprisingly I was less enchanted about the result. This fella would have needed more layers. Anyway lets continue.


Imperial Fist:
1. White Basecoat
2. Tentacle Pink
3. Golden Yellow
4. Bad Moon (Highlights)
5. Yellow Ink
6. Skull White (Highlights)
7. Yellow Ink

I liked this one a lot but he was very time consuming. Maybe this will be my second Legion should I go for a Shattered Legion approach to an army. Next one.


Iron Hands (Alpha) Scheme:
1. Chaos Black Basecoat
2. Tin Bitz
3. Boltgun Metal (Drybrush)
4. Black Ink (from a dried out pot; effect was not spectacular)
5. Boltgun Metal (Drybrush)
6. Mithril Silver (Drybrush)
7. Agrax Earthshade Ink

This was a very simple paint scheme. Almost too simple. So my OCD forced me to do at least an OSL effect on the lenses, breast blood drop and belt buckle blood drops. I liked this version a lot and therefore I tried another take on IH. Last one:


Iron Hands (Beta) Scheme:
1. Chaos Black Basecoat
2. Boltgun Metal
3. Green Ink
4. Purple Ink
5. Boltgun Metal (Drybrush)
6. Mithril Silver (Drybrush)
7. Agrax Earthshade Ink
8. Mithril Silver (Highlights)

This variant had a more metallic quality. The shenanigans with green and purple ink in association with metal was an inspiration from a youtube video although the effect of those inks can only be seen when you know for what you are looking for and even then they are pretty faint. Casual glances at the minis won´t reveal a thing and therefore those two steps might have been a waste of time. I like this cold, blue glow a lot which reinforces the IH´s trait of being cyborgs.

Perhaps I will do a third IH mini (the last metal BA figurine which can be used as a test, LOL!) to try out a blue ink instead of green and purple. In addition I might also paint the pouches in a blue colour as this will remove the brown from the mini which has a rather warm tone to it.

Thoughts?




This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/05/28 12:40:34


 
   
Made in ca
Commander of the Mysterious 2nd Legion





you might be able to do Imperial fists easier by doing averland sunset. and then hitting it with a cadadora yellow wash, OR a Iyden yellow contrast thinned to a glaze

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/05/27 21:38:29


Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in gb
Purposeful Hammerhead Pilot





 Strg Alt wrote:
 Gert wrote:
 Strg Alt wrote:
Are the legion traits flat boni or do they come with a cost? IF & IH seem to be very powerful. Maybe even too powerful. How does pinning work in HH and what kind of weapons can cause pinning? News said the Night Lords would gain an advantage when attacking pinned and fleeing troops.

Not sure because the rules aren't out yet.

Did the first edition of HH have rules for units gaining XP for campaign play? How elaborate were the chaos cult lists? Were they similar to 40K?

1 - Possibly in some campaigns but not all.
2 - The Cults and Militia list is the most customisable army in HH. Generic units were the same but Provences (sort of like army traits) and the lack of a specific model line mean you can do whatever you want. If you want your army to be made of Orks you can. If you want them to be a raging Cultist mob with Minotaurs as Ogryn you can. If you want Squats, guess what? You can!


Ash from GMG already has reviewed the rulebook for the new edition. It´s a mix of 3rd-7th 40K with the major new rule including the reaction system. AFAIK pinning required from 3rd - 5th 40K either artillery weapons or sniper rifles. So I am a bit perplexed how the Night Lords want to pin their foes when their only hope would be to take the 30K equivalent of a Whirlwind. The only sensible thing would be to make pinning available to more weapon types as otherwise the legion trait of the NL would be VERY weak.



Quad mortars, sniper rifles (called nemesis bolters), the vigilator, artillery tanks, and quite a lot of other stuff has the pinning rule in V2

The nightlord legion traits are really strong don't worry
   
 
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