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Made in ca
Traitor




Canada

Hello,
I am hoping that some more experienced individuals will be able to give some guidance.

First, I have an Anycubic Photon, I don't know if it's a mono-I think it is.

I am using Photon_Workshop to splice. My settings are currently:
.05 mm layer thickness
Normal exposure 9.0 seconds
off time 1 sec
bottom exposure 90.00 seconds
bottom layers 5
z lift 6mm
z speed 3
z retract 3

using medium, mid prism with a diamater of 2mm zero length

I have been having successes with these settings, but many failures. I have gone through a kg of resin so far.

With fidures at the 28mm scale I am getting a 50 to 60% success rate and 1 in 20 have an error of some sort. I think this is okay, but I would like to have the ratio better.

The issues I am having with "larger" peices such as terrain and vehicles are such as, the layers not adhering 3/4 through the print, falling off the plate, and missing sections.

I have also tried to angle the prints and added supports to help, and this has let me reach the rates I am seeing.

One last thing, I have been trying to print bases and haven't had one print out well. I have angled them, have supports applied, but they are half printing, only printing the supports, or not adhering to the plate. strange as I can turn around and print other files right after using the remain resin and it work out.

If you guys have any advice to help clean up my settings or success rate, please let me know.

Thank you!

Pew, Pew! 
   
Made in es
Inspiring SDF-1 Bridge Officer






For starters, if those times are working for you, you're probably using a regular screen not a mono one. If you're using a mono screen, turn those times waaaaaay down. Like, start with about a third of what you have.

Otherwise, I don't really remember how much time was needed for the starting layers on a regular screen, but it seems a bit high.

I'd advice you to start by printing some tests to dial properly your times for your printer and resin, and go on from there. After that you can start trying to see what the problem might be for the rest.

For the rest, usually I'd say do what you've done: angle your prints and support them properly. But if you're overcooking your layers, they wont stick properly anyways, so as I said, first dial in your settings.
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




Agreed, more supports, particularly if you are going for the support "default" rather than adding your own. On large lower/angled surfaces, I find manually adding more/thicker supports is best, in the middle of the "plane" and towards the extremities. In the long term you are saving resin (and frustration) by not having wasted prints.

In addition to lowering your "cooking" times as above, I found that reducing my "lifting speeds" seemed made a big difference, as it puts less stress on the model as the plate pulls away between each flash. It presumably makes every print take longer (hundreds of flashes/layers per print), but it is faster overall.
   
Made in es
Inspiring SDF-1 Bridge Officer






It's certainly faster than failing

Yeah, light off delays and lifting speeds are really important: the light off delay will ensure that the resin has the time to properly "rest" before the layers is printed (hence ensuring accuracy), whereas a slower lifting speed will help the layer to be pulled from the fep without breaking or distorting.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/05/23 13:06:33


 
   
Made in gb
Leader of the Sept







for bases, I can also recommend putting 2-3 really big supports really close to the bottom edge of the reverse face of the base. Its easier to massively over-support the bottom of bases to reduce failures and then sand them down smooth if you want, rather than try to be too efficient.

As soon as you start getting reliable results, you'll very quickly start to see where you do and don;t need to add supports.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
In case it is useful, I have a Mono and get good results with the following settings and Elegoo ceramic water washable resin

Spoiler:

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/05/23 21:55:07


Please excuse any spelling errors. I use a tablet frequently and software keyboards are a pain!

Terranwing - w3;d1;l1
51st Dunedinw2;d0;l0
Cadre Coronal Afterglow w1;d0;l0 
   
Made in ca
Traitor




Canada

Thank you all for the input. I am using Anycubic's white Craftsman resin.

I trued a test print with the suggested setting, but the print failed completely. I am trying a new one with 60 s for the base layer to see if that keeps it adhered to the plate. 7 minutes left on the timer.

Is it possible I have to adjust the setting for the print?

Pew, Pew! 
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

So a few thoughts to help you out

1) You shouldn't have to tailor exposure to the model. Ideally you set exposure based upon calibration print results. This gives you a known working exposure which you then work from as a base line. Otherwise you'll be over and under exposing all the time as you try to fiddle getting an exposure "per model". Which can be a nightmare as some models just outright have bad presupports.

So dial in the exposure using a good calibration print. The Ameralabs Town is popular because its got a 3D profile and thus shows the exposure performance of your regular layers. Some of the really flat exposure calibration prints are quicker to print, but have the downside that they are often influenced by base layers too much. You can use them to get started, but the Town is generally superior.

There's a download and a guide video here https://atlas3dss.com/learn


2) In general your base/burn layers want to have at least 0.2mm thickness of base layers. Then the combination of base and transitional layers wants to give you enough layer depth to cover your raft thickness and a little bit more (for the start of the columns).
Of course if your printer doesn't do transitional layers, you'd be using all base/burn layers (since your transitional layer depth would be 0).

3) In general terms base/burn layers are 10X your regular exposure time as a guideline.

4) Once you've got your settings dialled in then you can problem solve elsewhere including:

a) Temperature - at least 20C for most resins, a few need 30C (normally clearly marked on product pages). Those are the bottom line temperatures and ideally up to around 25C is a good value to aim for. Temperature wants to be constant or with mild variation over time, no sharp changes. You can get more details here:
https://printhunter.org/printing-and-temperature/

b) Presupports. Some are bad, some aren't best for the resin you use and different resins have different quirks. Eg Zmud resin needs a lot more fine tips to print reliably; whilst Aqua 4K resin often needs a few more light tips along long segments to prevent flex during the print. This is kind of something you have to learn/talk to others about to find resin quirks.
The link I gave earlier to Atlas has some good videos on presupport work as well that are worth checking out. Even if you use different software the theory is still the same.

c) Stability. Is the printer stable and not being rocked/bumped/knocked

d) Level Build plate - this gets flagged a lot, but often as not its not as often the error as people think. It's good to check, but a well balanced plate should last ages.

e) FEP condition. A kind of grey area here as to what is and isn't too far gone for a FEP. In general its a "last option" fix because its a cost and it requires work to change over. So I tend to put it last in problem solving unless there's very clear damage to the FEP.

A Blog in Miniature

3D Printing, hobbying and model fun! 
   
Made in ca
Traitor




Canada

An update. I have tried four test prints, then download the requemended test print from Overread. Each has failed, with each one I have changed the settings a touch.
With the new test print I changed the Bottom Exposure Time to 70s.
Still fail to be pulled off the FEP.

Setting are currently

Thickness 0.1
Exposure Time 6s
Off time 3 seconds
B.E.T. 70 s
Bottom Layer 6
Z Lift 6
Z Lift Speed 2
Z Retract Speed 2

I am going to change the B.E.T back to 90 and see how it adheres to the plate.
At least with the new test model it is roughly an hour rather then 3.

I have realigned the plate and even though the FEP still looks good, I have ordered two more.
I wonder if the problem I am having is to do with the white colour of the resin.

It is frustrating to go back from some successful prints to no prints, but I understand it's better in the long run.

Thanks for the ideas and help.




Pew, Pew! 
   
Made in es
Inspiring SDF-1 Bridge Officer






0.1 thickness? That's kinda... thick, ain't it? For most minatures' applications

I usually print at 0.05 or 0.025.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/05/25 10:51:10


 
   
Made in gb
Leader of the Sept







this random internet archive indicates that for Anycubic White on the normal Photon, you might expect to use exposure times between 8s and 15s, so you might not be curing the individual layers for long enough, certainly if your using 100 micron layer heights.

https://dwn.alza.cz/files/infolist/5593793/anycubic_resin_settings.pdf

Please excuse any spelling errors. I use a tablet frequently and software keyboards are a pain!

Terranwing - w3;d1;l1
51st Dunedinw2;d0;l0
Cadre Coronal Afterglow w1;d0;l0 
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

Yeah 0.1 is very thick for resin printing and likely is why your printing time suddenly shot down from 3 to 1 hour.

0.02 is normally the thinnest most go to and 0.05 the thickest. I've rarely seen anyone print outside of those two ranges.


A Blog in Miniature

3D Printing, hobbying and model fun! 
   
Made in es
Inspiring SDF-1 Bridge Officer






I have printed at 0.01 from time to time, but it's not really worth it compared with 0.02
   
Made in us
Courageous Questing Knight





Texas

 Overread wrote:
Yeah 0.1 is very thick for resin printing and likely is why your printing time suddenly shot down from 3 to 1 hour.

0.02 is normally the thinnest most go to and 0.05 the thickest. I've rarely seen anyone print outside of those two ranges.



Same here... I Had an Elegoo Mars for years and about a year ago upgraded to a Saturn.

My Novella Collection is available on Amazon - Action/Fantasy/Sci-Fi - https://www.amazon.com/Three-Roads-Dreamt-Michael-Leonard/dp/1505716993/

 
   
Made in ca
Traitor




Canada

After a week of failed prints, then my FEP getting a hole in it(same day as my replacements showed up), I finally got a test print to be successful. It was over exposed so I dropped a second, printed a new test, really liked the model, then printed two runs.
Out of 10 IG trooper type models, four printed, all with the left leg missing at the same place. These ten were a mix of three different positions copied to fill space. Second run was some characters and more copies of the troopers. two characters printed perfect, another three had issues of missing parts/details and all of the troopers where missing their left legs in the same spot.
I then whipped up another test and added .5 to the exposure time. Looked great and printed more of the first plate of troopers, with more copies printing, but all with the left leg missing, and again in the same spot.
Printed a plate of bases. all 25mm. fit like 20 on there. 9 very good prints, 4 half or quarter printed bases, and the rest never left the FEP.
printed another plate of mixed scatter terrain, and only half of the plate printed. Perfect prints.

I have yet to successfully print a larger, heavier print. No trucks, tanks, or apcs. Took two prints to complete a turret, 50% fail rate, and one building where the thicker roof started to laminate but is in a place you can't tell if is just sitting there. they fall off the print plate or never form more then an outline.


I see a pattern where only one half of the plate prints well. I don't know what that means. I have centrerd and leveled the print bed Several times.

The left leg thing is odd. the models are very nice in everyother way. I just have 14 guards men missing left legs...

I am printing now at
thickness: 0.05
Normal exposure time:14.5
Bottom exposure time:65
Bottom layers:5
Zspeed&Retract: 3

Next batch of resin will not be white. I have half of an open bottle and one 1 kg left.

With what has printed, not including the troopers with missing legs, and just including 40k stuff that has an actual cost, I have printed more then I would have walked out of a store with.

I have other things that have worked out that there is no value I can compare to to see the savings.

I am trying another print at 14.5 before realinging the plate, and doing a new test + or - .25 seconds. Not sure what else to do to fine tune it.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
I set a print up and went to bed. This was the same print where I had nince successful bases print out. Not one base printed. all that printed was the rafts for the supports. I was expecting nine and hoping for more, but with nothing changing but the resin(all from the same bottle), I don't really understand what is causing such a swing from one print to the next. Same bottle, same settings, same machine, same file. Temperature in the room was roughly 15 degrees overnight. More and more I think this is less science and more magic and Will of the Gods. I am about to get my fancy bowl and rattle some chicken bones.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/06/05 10:36:11


Pew, Pew! 
   
Made in us
Courageous Questing Knight





Texas

That is frustrating, but there has to be an issue, possibly with the resin or the UV power source.

I had cranked up my Saturn after a month or two of quiet to print some fairy garden stuff for my wife. So, all new files never printed before, threw them all on one build plate and filled it completely, mixed a couple of resins together to get a light tan/yellow, and... everything come out perfect - whew!

My Novella Collection is available on Amazon - Action/Fantasy/Sci-Fi - https://www.amazon.com/Three-Roads-Dreamt-Michael-Leonard/dp/1505716993/

 
   
Made in ca
Traitor




Canada

Well, I went with a Ivan Drago approach until the last FEP split on me. Ordered some more sheets and grey resin from Sunlu. Printing some test prints now to see how it goes.
I still have a third to a quarter bottle of the white, but unsure what to do with it. Might try mixing it, but for now just trying the grey el' natural.
Dropped the layer times to 6.5 for the first one and have spliced a second test at 4.5 to compare as grey resin has a lower cook time. Initial layer are at 50.

I want to print some freakin' tanks. Here's to it!

Pew, Pew! 
   
Made in us
Deathwing Terminator with Assault Cannon






Something to keep in mind is that resin printers' forte is printing out fine details and not chunky blocks. Greater the surface area, more difficult it is for the model to peel off of the FEP.
   
Made in es
Inspiring SDF-1 Bridge Officer






 skchsan wrote:
Something to keep in mind is that resin printers' forte is printing out fine details and not chunky blocks. Greater the surface area, more difficult it is for the model to peel off of the FEP.


It's one of the reasons I tend to hollow out many prints, as it helps quite a bit with that.
   
Made in ca
Traitor




Canada

I'll keep that in mind. I have been using Tinkercad to hollow out some of the chunkier peices. It's really basic, but so far been working. I am going to use blender at some point, as I am starting to hit the limits of tinkercad more often. Once I am frustrated with the limits I'll move over to blender.

Haven't had a print fulfilled yet. the supports keep separating from the base of the test print.
I have been using Ameralab's Town test print. I have angled the print 15 degrees and raised it 5mm off the bed. At 1 hour 54 minutes, I have been getting more test prints

Pew, Pew! 
   
Made in us
Courageous Questing Knight





Texas

Yes, I say hollow everything and just set the walls to the thickness needed - I usually do 1.6mm on tiny minis, 2mm on basic pieces and 2.8 on large pieces. Be sure to use use both vent and drain holes. The vent holes are critical when printing hollow pieces to eliminate the suction forces as it pulls off of the FEP. The vent holes should be near the base or build plate.

Drain holes at the top to drain out the resin that gets caught inside are useful, but not as critical as vent holes, since you can just tip the plate over and let any trapped resin run out your vent holes.

Can you print without vent holes? Sure, but you will increase your chance of failure on large hollow prints as it pulls it off of the supports or splits layers due to the suction force.

I actually had an argument with an a$$hat on Facebook that drain holes at the top do the same thing as vent holes - one is at the top of the piece and the other is at the bottom - how can holes that have not been printed yet reduce suction on a hollow print?? The guy was an 'engineer and print expert' but obviously did not know his a$$ from his elbow...

My Novella Collection is available on Amazon - Action/Fantasy/Sci-Fi - https://www.amazon.com/Three-Roads-Dreamt-Michael-Leonard/dp/1505716993/

 
   
Made in ca
Traitor




Canada

do you hide the vent holes, or fill them in after the print is washed and cured?

this has been a steeper learning curve then I expected for sure.

Thanks for all the tips!

Pew, Pew! 
   
Made in es
Inspiring SDF-1 Bridge Officer






steelhead177th wrote:
do you hide the vent holes, or fill them in after the print is washed and cured?

this has been a steeper learning curve then I expected for sure.

Thanks for all the tips!


I usually just put them wherever they won't be noticeable, like inside articulations and the like, on the base of the feet, that kinda thing.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
For example, this guy:



I hollowed it out and made a grand total of 5 holes to it.

First, the vent hole, the one that will break the suction of the piece on the fep. I did hide this one on the wais articulation:



Then I added another two big ones on the shoulders:



And finally, to help all the trapped resin to flow out without much of an issue, I added two holes to the smoke stacks:



EDIT: Take into account that you will need to support the inside of the print, too, now.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2022/06/28 15:48:40


 
   
Made in us
Deathwing Terminator with Assault Cannon






Once you get a hang of modelling softwares, you can eventually "disassemble" the base mesh model into multiple pieces so that you can assemble it together as you would with standard plastic models.
   
Made in ca
Traitor




Canada

very nice.
I am excited. had a test print turn out, abit over cooked(checkered pattern in the front was touching in the corners) so turned the layer time from 8 to 7.25 and printed a heavy bolter turret out. almost perfect. the base came out 100%, the turret head looks abit melted at the start of the print, and one of the bolters half printed. it stayed on the plate! I am trying the file again, and will adjust if needed after it finishes. I suspect it was my choice of resin as I struggled with this file in white. whoop whoop.

That is modivation to learn blender. time to put away the kids toys and upgrade!

Pew, Pew! 
   
Made in us
Courageous Questing Knight





Texas

Yes, vent holes at the bottom, feet, base, etc. You won't see them. Now I have done drain holes at the top of some pieces and the nifty thing about Chitubox is if you drill the drain hole you can elect to keep the piece drilled out and print it to plug the hole - I have done on numerous occasions.

My Novella Collection is available on Amazon - Action/Fantasy/Sci-Fi - https://www.amazon.com/Three-Roads-Dreamt-Michael-Leonard/dp/1505716993/

 
   
Made in au
Grizzled Space Wolves Great Wolf





Make sure the vent holes at the bottom aren't hard up against the plate (might sound obvious, but I've seen some people punch vent holes in the bottom but they are blocked by the build plate so won't stop suction forces).

Another one I learned recently is be wary of rafts that when inverted look like cups (i.e. a void surrounded by a wall) as these will create suction. I had an issue where I was getting delamination within the raft itself and I THINK that was the problem. The slicer I was using was creating a default raft that by its shape was creating suction. I'm still using the same rafts now, but I manually punch some holes in the walls so it's not creating the suction effect.
   
Made in us
Courageous Questing Knight





Texas

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
Make sure the vent holes at the bottom aren't hard up against the plate (might sound obvious, but I've seen some people punch vent holes in the bottom but they are blocked by the build plate so won't stop suction forces).

Another one I learned recently is be wary of rafts that when inverted look like cups (i.e. a void surrounded by a wall) as these will create suction. I had an issue where I was getting delamination within the raft itself and I THINK that was the problem. The slicer I was using was creating a default raft that by its shape was creating suction. I'm still using the same rafts now, but I manually punch some holes in the walls so it's not creating the suction effect.


Ha, you are right and thought it would be obvious that you can't do vent holes if directly on the plate - the piece needs to be raised a bit by supports.

My Novella Collection is available on Amazon - Action/Fantasy/Sci-Fi - https://www.amazon.com/Three-Roads-Dreamt-Michael-Leonard/dp/1505716993/

 
   
Made in ca
Traitor




Canada

So, I have also learned several things. One, it is a photon zero. Two, to give time between prints as the bed heats up and this makes the resin less likely to seal to the bed. Running it without a cooling period is an issue. Three, I haven'tmade the big prints thin enough as twice I ran out of resin near the end of the print. So I need to make the prints smaller, and or thinner. I have no issue printing fidures, but buildings and large chucking bits need more work.
Four, I steuggled due to the white resin. I am getting near the end of my litre of grey and I might mix it to see how that turns out.

You guys are great and helpful in my journey, again thank you

Pew, Pew! 
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

steelhead177th wrote:
So, I have also learned several things. One, it is a photon zero. Two, to give time between prints as the bed heats up and this makes the resin less likely to seal to the bed. Running it without a cooling period is an issue. Three, I haven'tmade the big prints thin enough as twice I ran out of resin near the end of the print. So I need to make the prints smaller, and or thinner. I have no issue printing fidures, but buildings and large chucking bits need more work.
Four, I steuggled due to the white resin. I am getting near the end of my litre of grey and I might mix it to see how that turns out.

You guys are great and helpful in my journey, again thank you



You might be mixing up FDM and SLA printing there with the bed cooling. Yes with an SLA printer (ergo what everyone casually calls a resin printer) the printing process will generate heat of its own. Cooling is important, but its less to do with the print and more to do with the LCD screen as that is what suffers from the heat. The resin itself won't have any problems with heat, unless the Ambient Temperature of the environment is too high.

This varies resin to resin, with most needing 20C ambient temperature minimum to print, with performance improving up to a point and then degrading as things get too hot. Eg the Aqua 4K resin I use needs 20C and improves up to around 30C, thereafter it starts to have problems again.

Some resins need 30C to work, which is normally marked on the product page and details for the resin.


You actually don't want the resin sticking to the FEP (which is what will be warming up from the process). It wants to stick to the build plate, which after a print will have been up in the air for ages so should only be at ambient environment temperature.
You printer won't need a specific cooling off time. Take the build plate off, get the print off, give it a wipe down and then put it right back on and start a new print. It will have fans inside that help at least mediate some of the heat over the LCD, but that's about it for cooling.



With regard to hollowing, I'd be cautious at making the walls too thin, otherwise you might have enough resin, but you'll get an increased chance of tearing and reduced durability of the final print. What you can do is simply keep the resin bottle in the same environment as the printer and then check on the printer. When its getting low on resin, shake the bottle up (make sure you are standing away from the printer, esp if you're upstairs or on a wooden floor or such - ergo so that you don't wobble the printer) and then pour in some fresh resin to top it up. There is a trick to getting this right and you don't want to pause the print (this will create a print interrupt line). Wait till the build plate is moving and pour in some more resin. Topping up during printing is very common and normal for doing bigger prints. There are a few printers starting to get auto top-up systems ,but they are fairly new and not that common; and some have issues of their own.



A Blog in Miniature

3D Printing, hobbying and model fun! 
   
Made in us
Deathwing Terminator with Assault Cannon






 Overread wrote:
steelhead177th wrote:
So, I have also learned several things. One, it is a photon zero. Two, to give time between prints as the bed heats up and this makes the resin less likely to seal to the bed. Running it without a cooling period is an issue. Three, I haven'tmade the big prints thin enough as twice I ran out of resin near the end of the print. So I need to make the prints smaller, and or thinner. I have no issue printing fidures, but buildings and large chucking bits need more work.
Four, I steuggled due to the white resin. I am getting near the end of my litre of grey and I might mix it to see how that turns out.

You guys are great and helpful in my journey, again thank you



You might be mixing up FDM and SLA printing there with the bed cooling. Yes with an SLA printer (ergo what everyone casually calls a resin printer) the printing process will generate heat of its own. Cooling is important, but its less to do with the print and more to do with the LCD screen as that is what suffers from the heat. The resin itself won't have any problems with heat, unless the Ambient Temperature of the environment is too high.

This varies resin to resin, with most needing 20C ambient temperature minimum to print, with performance improving up to a point and then degrading as things get too hot. Eg the Aqua 4K resin I use needs 20C and improves up to around 30C, thereafter it starts to have problems again.

Some resins need 30C to work, which is normally marked on the product page and details for the resin.

And as above, certain resins may be heat sensitive, but they're not heat reactive - meaning the temperature generally does not affect it's ability to cure or peel off the FEP/print bed.


You actually don't want the resin sticking to the FEP (which is what will be warming up from the process). It wants to stick to the build plate, which after a print will have been up in the air for ages so should only be at ambient environment temperature.
You printer won't need a specific cooling off time. Take the build plate off, get the print off, give it a wipe down and then put it right back on and start a new print. It will have fans inside that help at least mediate some of the heat over the LCD, but that's about it for cooling.



With regard to hollowing, I'd be cautious at making the walls too thin, otherwise you might have enough resin, but you'll get an increased chance of tearing and reduced durability of the final print. What you can do is simply keep the resin bottle in the same environment as the printer and then check on the printer. When its getting low on resin, shake the bottle up (make sure you are standing away from the printer, esp if you're upstairs or on a wooden floor or such - ergo so that you don't wobble the printer) and then pour in some fresh resin to top it up. There is a trick to getting this right and you don't want to pause the print (this will create a print interrupt line). Wait till the build plate is moving and pour in some more resin. Topping up during printing is very common and normal for doing bigger prints. There are a few printers starting to get auto top-up systems ,but they are fairly new and not that common; and some have issues of their own.


You can also use pipettes for more control and less mess when topping off resin.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/07/01 21:48:43


 
   
 
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