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Hi, assuming I have remembered the name properly, is this one still around. For those that don’t know malal is the 5th names chaos god, the renegade god that plays them off against each other.

Malals symbol is the half white, half black skull, like the mechanicus. My head cannon for a while has been that this is a clue that the emperor is possesed by or is actually malal and has been raging against the other chaos gods using the human imperium.

Not really - Malal became Malice ("an outcast Chaos God"), but hasn't been mentioned for several editions.

Lexicanum wrote:Malice is essentially the current incarnation of Malal, a Chaos God of anarchy that appeared in the Citadel Journal for the 2nd edition of Warhammer Fantasy. The character was eventually removed from all Games Workshop works due to a legal dispute with his original creators.

They say in the 41st millennium there is only war. but there are also legal disputes and if you think terminators are tough, wait until you see the lawyers

I believe the idea of malal was sort of in the demons of the ruin storm Horus heresy 1.0 army list.

From what I gather, the lad who came up with all the Malal stuff left and took that with him.

And so for a while that disappeared entirely, I believe Malice is meant to be the replacement in 40k.

It's something GW should really dive into, I think it would be fantastic. I'd be fascinated if they did something with one of the Daemon primarchs, so filled with self loathing that they turn to Malal and begin to fight against Chaos from within.

I used to have a Chaos Mordheim warband dedicated to Malal, one of my favourite parts of the lore.

It would be good, there are other forces within the warp that we no nothing about, or very little. But why would the like the main chaos gods and certainly we know that gork and mork have nothing to fear from them so it’s all possible.

It’s why I’ve always thought malal or malice might be the emperor. The emperor made a deal with the chaos gods for power and then had the aim of striking back, seem quite malicious. And the imperium is nothing if not malicious in the way it’s worked since the the unification wars.

And the current theory is that the SOB are having a very warp space type relationship with the emperor and that he will ascend into the warp and become a warp god. Maybe he will be going back to where he came from in the first place.

The Sons of Malice were about for a while and were last featured IIRC in Imperial Armour 13: Warmachines of the Lost and the Damned and an option for the HH Ruinstorm Daemons list was to take Daemons that got buffs fighting other Daemons.

The Sons of Malice also appeared in a short story somewhere a few years ago. I think it was in a compilation of short stories? They were chowing down on human flesh while a new recruit went through some sort of murderous obstacle course.

Wyldhunt wrote:
The Sons of Malice also appeared in a short story somewhere a few years ago. I think it was in a compilation of short stories? They were chowing down on human flesh while a new recruit went through some sort of murderous obstacle course.

Would you happen to know where? I'm trying to read newer books so I'm more up to speed on the current background. This sounds interesting.

 Olthannon wrote:

Wyldhunt wrote:
The Sons of Malice also appeared in a short story somewhere a few years ago. I think it was in a compilation of short stories? They were chowing down on human flesh while a new recruit went through some sort of murderous obstacle course.

Would you happen to know where? I'm trying to read newer books so I'm more up to speed on the current background. This sounds interesting.

I'm struggling to remember. I know it was a physical book and that the book was a collection of short stories. Victories of the Space Marines maybe? But that doesn't sound right.

Can anyone even point to what book Malal appeared in in the first place? Sometimes people talk about him like a big important thing, and for the major books back in RT and 2nd, he's basically in... nothing.
'Still part of the lore' seems... inaccurate, as he wasn't important or overtly mentioned in most published materials.

Wyldhunt wrote:
I know it was a physical book and that the book was a collection of short stories. Victories of the Space Marines maybe? But that doesn't sound right.

The anthology you're thinking of is Heroes of the Space Marines. The short story in question is The Labyrinth by Richard Ford.


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Voss wrote:
Can anyone even point to what book Malal appeared in in the first place?

The Spring 1986 edition of the Citadel Journal was his only appearance outside the Kaleb Daark comics, and the only official source of rules for his followers. And that was only for (2nd ed.) WHFB, since 40K literally didn't exist yet. Malal has never been in 40K officially AFAICR, as GW had already lost the rights to him by the time Rogue Trader came out. He wasn't in Slaves to Darkness for the same reason.

 Duskweaver wrote:

Wyldhunt wrote:
I know it was a physical book and that the book was a collection of short stories. Victories of the Space Marines maybe? But that doesn't sound right.

The anthology you're thinking of is Heroes of the Space Marines. The short story in question is The Labyrinth by Richard Ford.



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Voss wrote:
Can anyone even point to what book Malal appeared in in the first place?

The Spring 1986 edition of the Citadel Journal was his only appearance outside the Kaleb Daark comics, and the only official source of rules for his followers. And that was only for (2nd ed.) WHFB, since 40K literally didn't exist yet. Malal has never been in 40K officially AFAICR, as GW had already lost the rights to him by the time Rogue Trader came out. He wasn't in Slaves to Darkness for the same reason.

Thanks for clearing that up about which book it is.

I remember Malal mainly from the 1st edition of WFRP 1st edition, which had some really awesome artwork in it. Me and some pals played a whole adventure with Malal followers in it.

I seem to remember the Sons of Malice chapter in the 3rd? edition chaos codex. I think it was 3rd it was the only one I had.


@Voss is right though, for all that Malal/Malice was barely in it. I guess the copyright issue kind of snuffed it. It's a shame because there's a lot of potential.

Maybe part of the problem is the fan wikis that just dump everything together with no context.

I never thought malice played a big role but I thought it was one of those Easter egg type things that hangs around in the back ground.

 Duskweaver wrote:

Voss wrote:
Can anyone even point to what book Malal appeared in in the first place?

The Spring 1986 edition of the Citadel Journal was his only appearance outside the Kaleb Daark comics, and the only official source of rules for his followers. And that was only for (2nd ed.) WHFB, since 40K literally didn't exist yet. Malal has never been in 40K officially AFAICR, as GW had already lost the rights to him by the time Rogue Trader came out. He wasn't in Slaves to Darkness for the same reason.

Thanks for that. I started both games around 1988-89 (Slaves to Darkness and a few random models was my starting point, actually- I didn't pick up RT until I returned to the States the next year), and every time this topic comes up, I always wonder what the heck I missed and how I missed it.

When I think of anti-chaos chaos gods, I go to Zuvassin and Nechoho, from Something Rotten in Kislev.

mrFickle wrote:
Maybe part of the problem is the fan wikis that just dump everything together with no context.

I never thought malice played a big role but I thought it was one of those Easter egg type things that hangs around in the back ground.

Perhaps, although the Kaleb Daark comics were pretty popular. The concept behind a Chaos God dedicated to murderising the others is also very cool. I have over the years seen some really cool Fantasy and 40k armies in the Malal colour scheme. White and Black check is a good combination, especially on Chaos figures where it looks so unusual.

Although Malal didn't appear much, the idea was very much kept alive by fans in the 90s and early 2000s.

EDIT: scrolling back up to your original post and you mention Malal as the 5th god. Is that true? And also I had it in my head that there are 8 in total which is what the 8 pointed star is about.

 Olthannon wrote:

mrFickle wrote:
Maybe part of the problem is the fan wikis that just dump everything together with no context.

I never thought malice played a big role but I thought it was one of those Easter egg type things that hangs around in the back ground.

Perhaps, although the Kaleb Daark comics were pretty popular. The concept behind a Chaos God dedicated to murderising the others is also very cool. I have over the years seen some really cool Fantasy and 40k armies in the Malal colour scheme. White and Black check is a good combination, especially on Chaos figures where it looks so unusual.

Although Malal didn't appear much, the idea was very much kept alive by fans in the 90s and early 2000s.

EDIT: scrolling back up to your original post and you mention Malal as the 5th god. Is that true? And also I had it in my head that there are 8 in total which is what the 8 pointed star is about.

Well it’s just the 5th name I know but your right, what is the eight fold path all about? I don’t think I’ve ever known. And if there are chaos worshipers worshiping chaos undivided then are they worshiping 8 gods…. And who are they

 Olthannon wrote:


EDIT: scrolling back up to your original post and you mention Malal as the 5th god. Is that true? And also I had it in my head that there are 8 in total which is what the 8 pointed star is about.

The 8 pointed star is due to Chaos being the opposite of Order, which is traditionally depicted as a single arrow pointed upwards. The eight points representing the multitude of paths a follower can take as opposed to the single path of Order. The star itself comes from Michael Moorcock's Elric series of novels.

Malal would be the 5th major power. There are numerous other Chaos powers mentioned over the years like Zuvassin and Necoho who both appeared in WHFBRP and only there. There's also the minor Chaos gods, mentioned in the 3rd ed CSM dex, who are dedicated by CSMs adorning their armour with spiky bits. Their names are Ans'l, Mo'rcck and Phraz-Etar, all sly nods to people who shaped the imagery of Chaos over the years, that being Bryan Ansell, Michael Moorcock and Frank Frazetta.

There is also the Screaming God Child, which appears in book two of the Malus Darkblade series. It's unclear whether this is also another attempt at a "Totes not Malal" Malal or this is another entity altogether.

If we're taking WFB into account, there's also Hashut and the Horned Rat to think about, too.

 Dysartes wrote:
If we're taking WFB into account, there's also Hashut and the Horned Rat to think about, too.

I've never spotted a reference to either in 40k. So if they do exist, they're probably minor warp deities or something.

The most important God is Nuffle.

The short version is: GW hired a couple of artists to make a comic series about Malal (as publicity for new models). They didn't pay attention to copyright law at that time which means the artists, since they designed that one god, are the guys who own the rights to it. So GW can't use that character without their permission. In theory they could have bought the rights or paid royalties, but they chose to drop him completely instead.

It's a shame, he was the perfect god for anti-hero characters.

Yeah it would be interesting to see if there is a Choas god that can be worshiped without the inevitable soul consumption and mutation but instead rewarded it followers in more acceptable ways. Although I suppose we see this with gork and mork, depending on if you see them as chaos gods. I suppose warp gods is a better explanation but then what is it that makes a chaos god


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And what happens to Ans'l, Mo'rcck and Phraz-Etar are they out of the setting?

 Grimtuff wrote:

 Olthannon wrote:


EDIT: scrolling back up to your original post and you mention Malal as the 5th god. Is that true? And also I had it in my head that there are 8 in total which is what the 8 pointed star is about.

The 8 pointed star is due to Chaos being the opposite of Order, which is traditionally depicted as a single arrow pointed upwards. The eight points representing the multitude of paths a follower can take as opposed to the single path of Order. The star itself comes from Michael Moorcock's Elric series of novels.

Malal would be the 5th major power.

Well, no. Given the timeline above, Malal is a trivia footnote for early GW and WFB, before they even had the geography hammered down, and the shot-lived Gods of Law had more of a legacy.
For 40k, Malal isn't anything.