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So, the best I can find at 3 on-line retailers is 15%.

Has GW successfully forced retail to accept no more than 15% discounting?

Or are there others I don't know about?

Thanks for info!

You're not going to find a better than 15% discount advertised anywhere in the US, GW has enforced a strict 15% MAPP that prevents anyone from advertising a discount larger than that. Quite a few stores have attempted to find crafty ways to circumvent that through additional bonus discounts, etc. and all of them have lost their trade accounts with GW as a result.

The best way to wargame for less is playing games that are not Warhammer and buying miniatures from other companies.

 DarkBlack wrote:
The best way to wargame for less is playing games that are not Warhammer and buying miniatures from other companies.

The problem is most people play GW games, and with a limited pool of players and limited amount of gaming time most people default to the game they're most likely to find an opponent.
Although I agree with your point. Wish more of my group played different games too.

 Huron black heart wrote:

 DarkBlack wrote:
The best way to wargame for less is playing games that are not Warhammer and buying miniatures from other companies.

The problem is most people play GW games, and with a limited pool of players and limited amount of gaming time most people default to the game they're most likely to find an opponent.
Although I agree with your point. Wish more of my group played different games too.

If everyone who thought this way just went out and started a non-GW game, it simply wouldn't be an issue any longer. So much of GW/40ks dominance and the lack of market share for their competitors is driven by "this other game looks cool, but nobody I know plays it, so I guess I'll keep playing 40k".

aama19147 wrote:
So, the best I can find at 3 on-line retailers is 15%.

Has GW successfully forced retail to accept no more than 15% discounting?

Or are there others I don't know about?

Thanks for info!

Talk to the owner of your FLGS.

Tell them how much you spend in a year, tell them the 15% discount you are getting from online stores. Tell them you would rather the money went to the FLGS, ask them to beat it.

You might be surprised what they are willing to do for you.

After 40 years of minis, I don't need any figs or games at all!


But, I did get a couple of the board games, and will try Kill Team with people who are not competitive, to play with what I already own.

As for 40K...I still think it isn't worth time or money. But I have my leftover Necrons and SMs from the 90s. Will probably try them with One-Page Wargame Rules, or Terminator Miniatures by Allessio Cavatore.

So, like the minis, dislike the games, but willing to try KT, SM Adventures, and Bladeborn, with my kid.

I've been enjoying 20% with Wayland games for a few years now.

My FLGS does 25 off preorders so the trick is simply buying everything when it's new and you never have to pay retail for old stuff.

Here the two biggest online shops do 25% on GW stuff, except mail order items which can be purchased at 10%.

25% discount has always been the stanard here, when I was a kid during 3rd edition even physical local shops had those prices in my area, although I haven't visited those shops since almost two decades and I can't say what prices they have now.

Actually I haven't bought anything new from GW in over 20 years into the hobby that didn't have that 25% discount except some mail order products. I thought it was the standard for every online shops.

Yup, in the US they have capped out discounts at 15% off. Some stores get around that sometimes, but they cannot advertise lower. It doesn't help that unlike most parts of the world, tax isn't built into the price, so even when you get say a 10% discount, it is effectively just 1-2%.

If you must do GW official models, and aren't going preowned, its actually often cheaper to have a friend in the EU or the UK and have them ship it to you - due to the fact that the advertised price is what you get since VAT is baked into it, the GW exchange rate is somewhat more favorable (the last time the UK priceband for the US was even remotely close to the truth was like 2014), and discounts can be slightly higher.

Just as an example, the Kill Team Starter set is 99USD, so you can probably find it for about 85$ (not counting tax - you can sometimes find online retailers that don't add it but otherwise add 8-10$), UK price is 65pounds (currently 81-82$), but idly looking at Wayland games can be found for 52pounds (currently 65$). So long as you don't need the box itself, if you build up enough savings, you can have a friend mail the sprues to you for cheaper than buying it state-side.

I know of one place that undercuts everyone else by 1 whole percent!

Yes, I can get 21% off. Of course, they don't do free shipping at any level, so you have to factor in whether the 1% covers that shipping.

 DarkBlack wrote:
The best way to wargame for less is playing games that are not Warhammer and buying miniatures from other companies.

I think the flaw with this kind of argument is:

1. It assumes that people will just play anything and that the person is playing a GW product either because they don't know any better or haven't ever tried another.
2. Removes the possibility that people are playing/collecting GW products simply because they like them.

I've been playing these games since I was 10. The only game outside of GW games I play is BattleTech. I've seen so many others, and the only one that ever caught my eye is AT-43... which died. I have a Therian army for that, but that's it. I'm more than happy to continue playing 40k, Necromunda, Warhammer Quest, Blood Bowl and maybe HH if we ever get into it.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

 DarkBlack wrote:
The best way to wargame for less is playing games that are not Warhammer and buying miniatures from other companies.

I think the flaw with this kind of argument is:

1. It assumes that people will just play anything and that the person is playing a GW product either because they don't know any better or haven't ever tried another.

Not so much an assumption as a "just in case". There is a wide and wonderful world of wargaming outside of GW and a distressing number of people have not idea or gross misconceptions.

2. Removes the possibility that people are playing/collecting GW products simply because they like them.

Just pointing out that it's an expensive possibility.

Numerous internet retailers are doing the HH releases at 20% off here in Australia and I secured the main box set last night at 25% off with free shipping.

outside of the US there're laws preventing GW from enforcing a "you may only discount by this much" policy, but hey - FrEeDoM

If you're crunching numbers in the U.S. 15% off with no sales tax or shipping (or gas to go to the FLGS) may be more like 20% or more off vs retail.

For what it's worth.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
If you're crunching numbers in the U.S. 15% off with no sales tax or shipping (or gas to go to the FLGS) may be more like 20% or more off vs retail.

For what it's worth.

Aren't taxes paid on top of the discounted price, and based on the actual price?
Like, in Germany we have a (mostly) fixed 19% VAT, and a 20% discount on the taxed or untaxed price is still a 20% discount and it always ends up the same amount total?

Multiplication should work the same in the US, but maybe there's Imperial Multiplication and that one works differently? Aren't taxes percentage-based everywhere (honestly wondering that now)? Or is there no sales tax online?

nekooni wrote:


Or is there no sales tax online?

That's the one.

Sales taxes in the US are set by states (or even localities) and vary from zero to around 10% but do not apply in sales across state lines (in theory you're supposed to pay the taxes to the state you live in but y'know...)

There've been attempts to close this loophole but y'know...

This incidentally is why listed prices in the US do not include taxes, they vary from state to state and city to city.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:

nekooni wrote:


Or is there no sales tax online?

That's the one.

Sales taxes in the US are set by states (or even localities) and vary from zero to around 10% but do not apply in sales across state lines (in theory you're supposed to pay the taxes to the state you live in but y'know...)

There've been attempts to close this loophole but y'know...

This incidentally is why listed prices in the US do not include taxes, they vary from state to state and city to city.

First I remember the bad old days where GW wouldn't allow any independent stockists to have an online shopping cart (ostensibly to protect brick and mortar locations which was gak as allegedly their biggest trade account in the US that did a vast amount of business online had a very sizeable store front as well). You had to e-mail or call the retailer to place an order regardless if it was being discounted or not. Not sure if they still have terms that force the retailer to have a retail store front of some kind.

As for the sales tax issue, there is no longer a loophole per se as per the decision by the SCOTUS in South Dakota vs. Wayfair in 2018 states have the right to prosecute and/or sue out of state retailers for failing to collect and remit sales tax for mail order or online sales that are being delivered to addresses in the state where sales tax is owed.

So while some states do not bother to try and collect sales tax on online sales, Texas, New York, California, and most of the other large states, has been very aggressive at enforcing sales tax requirements to the point that I hardly ever come across an online retailer that does not charge me the estimated sales tax at time of purchase since the penalties for collecting the sale tax owed can easily exceed the cost of goods sold. This is not to say that there might be some online retailers that continuing to violate the law of those states that do not exempt online and mail order sales from sales tax, but in my online shopping travels I cannot remember the last time I bought something from an online retailer who did not have a location in my state that didn’t charge sales tax.

In fact my problem is unless the shopping cart system that the online retailer is using to calculate estimated sales tax is able to parse sales tax rate by street address (and most don’t), it often defaults to the highest local sales tax rate based on county or zip code which means many of my online sales which should be taxed at 7.25% are taxed at the 8.25% rate due to my street’s close proximity to the metro area where certain municipal entities have set a higher tax rate.

This is largely a moot issue though for me when it comes to hobby goods as any FLGS I would visit are all in areas where the tax rate is 8.25% so it’s a wash.

Ultimately though it is a shame that GW and other companies (Apple, Microsoft, Nintendo, Sony, etc.) are allowed under current US law to effectively set the minimum retail price that retailers can publicly advertise. (Not withstanding exceptions for certain manufactured goods such as many states forbidding car manufacturers from enforcing a minimum retail price or in case of Texas also prohibiting car manufacturers from selling directly to consumers).

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:

nekooni wrote:


Or is there no sales tax online?

That's the one.

Sales taxes in the US are set by states (or even localities) and vary from zero to around 10% but do not apply in sales across state lines (in theory you're supposed to pay the taxes to the state you live in but y'know...)

There've been attempts to close this loophole but y'know...

This incidentally is why listed prices in the US do not include taxes, they vary from state to state and city to city.

Ah, so it's basically tax fraud, gotcha. But if the tax system is this badly behind the times, I honestly can't fault people.

nekooni wrote:

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:

nekooni wrote:


Or is there no sales tax online?

That's the one.

Sales taxes in the US are set by states (or even localities) and vary from zero to around 10% but do not apply in sales across state lines (in theory you're supposed to pay the taxes to the state you live in but y'know...)

There've been attempts to close this loophole but y'know...

This incidentally is why listed prices in the US do not include taxes, they vary from state to state and city to city.

Ah, so it's basically tax fraud, gotcha. But if the tax system is this badly behind the times, I honestly can't fault people.

Actually the way it works is if the retailer doesn't collect the sales tax, the buyer is supposed to report it to their state. If you don't buy much, nobody will find out. But since the IRS is now looking at online purchases greater than $600 and they just hired 10,000 employees across the US, you may just be testing your luck in 2022. If you're a business and you don't pay your sales tax, they yank your licenses and shut your business down until you pay. There was a big court case that set the precedent - South Dakota v Wayfair. South Dakota wrote a law that said that Wayfair needed to send a listing of all sales each month to the state of purchases over $100 so the state could charge them for sales tax. Wayfair and a number of other online retailers said they didn't need to comply with paying sales tax as they said it was their advantage to not physically having a location to sell their goods or products (ie Shipping was essentially sales tax). The state disagreed since they were not receiving any of it. The law of the land was Quill vs North Dakota which required the online sellers to pay sales tax if they had a physical presence in the state (distribution center, etc.). It was estimated that states were losing $13B per year in sales tax funding due to online sales. The Wayfair case was just the reversal of Quill and forces online retailers to collect and remit sales tax on your behalf. There are ways around it but if the IRS finds you, it gets really expensive as you'll deal with both late fees, interest, and penalties. My favorite argument Wayfair used was that it would be really expensive to find out how much sales tax they would owe if they had to pay every state, county, city, and jurisdiction in the county. Yes it is complex but if you're going to sell to the people, you need to pay the tax man his "fair" piece.

Yeah, I wouldn't mind the tax thing if it was actually baked into the price. I just hate the gatcha mechanics involved in US taxes in which you always have to mentally add a percentage to the listed price, whereas most civilized countries the price is what you see is what you get. This aggravates me in general, but GW gives me bonus points with it because their made up exchange rate is completely made up as well - not only is the base price much higher than it would be based on actual exchange rates for the past 6+ years, there is then an extra percentage then placed on top of that, unlisted.

While we’re discussing discounts, did combat patrols just go from $140 to $150 recently or has that been awhile?

 privateer4hire wrote:
While we’re discussing discounts, did combat patrols just go from $140 to $150 recently or has that been awhile?

Probably went up. There was a price hike end of Feb/early March.
Can't say I've ever really payed attention to the price of Combat Patrols though.

Much appreciated. I thought they were going up for new ones but turns out they are all $150

Guess a good discount can’t hurt

nekooni wrote:
outside of the US there're laws preventing GW from enforcing a "you may only discount by this much" policy, but hey - FrEeDoM

For what its worth, Warlord games does the same.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

boyd wrote:

nekooni wrote:

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:

nekooni wrote:


Or is there no sales tax online?

That's the one.

Sales taxes in the US are set by states (or even localities) and vary from zero to around 10% but do not apply in sales across state lines (in theory you're supposed to pay the taxes to the state you live in but y'know...)

There've been attempts to close this loophole but y'know...

This incidentally is why listed prices in the US do not include taxes, they vary from state to state and city to city.

Ah, so it's basically tax fraud, gotcha. But if the tax system is this badly behind the times, I honestly can't fault people.

Actually the way it works is if the retailer doesn't collect the sales tax, the buyer is supposed to report it to their state. If you don't buy much, nobody will find out. But since the IRS is now looking at online purchases greater than $600 and they just hired 10,000 employees across the US, you may just be testing your luck in 2022. If you're a business and you don't pay your sales tax, they yank your licenses and shut your business down until you pay. There was a big court case that set the precedent - South Dakota v Wayfair. South Dakota wrote a law that said that Wayfair needed to send a listing of all sales each month to the state of purchases over $100 so the state could charge them for sales tax. Wayfair and a number of other online retailers said they didn't need to comply with paying sales tax as they said it was their advantage to not physically having a location to sell their goods or products (ie Shipping was essentially sales tax). The state disagreed since they were not receiving any of it. The law of the land was Quill vs North Dakota which required the online sellers to pay sales tax if they had a physical presence in the state (distribution center, etc.). It was estimated that states were losing $13B per year in sales tax funding due to online sales. The Wayfair case was just the reversal of Quill and forces online retailers to collect and remit sales tax on your behalf. There are ways around it but if the IRS finds you, it gets really expensive as you'll deal with both late fees, interest, and penalties. My favorite argument Wayfair used was that it would be really expensive to find out how much sales tax they would owe if they had to pay every state, county, city, and jurisdiction in the county. Yes it is complex but if you're going to sell to the people, you need to pay the tax man his "fair" piece.

and that is, manpower alone, impossible for a small business.

As someone currently working as a 3D printing service/online retailer (Granted, of only one plastics line currently) unless someone gave me tools to make codifying and organizing taxes for 50 separate states, let alone the multitude and range of municipal/county level sales tax surcharge rates, that would be a nightmare.

Now that's me, and my wargaming niche business. Think of the thousands of etsy stores, mom and pop businesses with an online presence, etc.

Wouldnt you just use a software to do that? Quick google search turned up multiple products

OK, so - back to the OP - I'm not hearing that there is any better deal for new product than 15%, with free shipping and tax included.

I've never heard of the "tax included in price" discount, but certainly paying it has been neglected by vendors in the past.
Of course, nearly everyone offers free shipping after a certain price.

Thanks for your input!

Which vendors online do you frequent most? After The Warstore shut down, I would buy either through my LGS or Amazon

 Spacemanvic wrote:
Which vendors online do you frequent most? After The Warstore shut down, I would buy either through my LGS or Amazon

I use Miniature Market & Noble Knight alot.
MM for new stuff, KN mostly for oop & used. Sometimes Amazon.