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https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2139148164/going-native-rise-of-the-city-states?ref=creator_nav

Paymaster Games has just launched a new Kickstarter Campaign that features allot of new miniatures for their Going Native lines. The ones featured in this campaign are Mayan City States, Pacific Northwest Tribes, Kingdom of Hawaii, and the Kiribati Islands. They have their normal fair of monsters and gods from native folklore added to this campaign as well.

In this campaign they are including several "not" Dogs of War models. The City States Mercenary line currently features a kit of 2 Paymaster's Bodyguard and a Mercenary hero on a Giant Starfish that was teased in back in WD 234. For the campaign we are calling the monster starfish, Patricus. Patricus will start with a Mercenary hero as it first rider, but as the campaign continues other riders will be unlocked. Paymaster Games is also planning additional Mercenary City State Models as well for this campaign which include a Mercenary Paymaster group (Paymaster, Money Lender, and Pay Chest), Mercenary Duelists, Mercenary Pikemen, and De Vinci Flyers that will unlock as the stretch goals are unlocked.


They are also running a cross promotion with Mana Press's Tribal Skirmish game. Paymaster Games are offering 4 different starter kits from each of the different factions offered in this campaign. Tribal is a fantastic skirmish game. I have been playing it since Covid started, and i have had lot of fun with it I would recommend the game to anyone looking to start a new game with very few models.

Please check out the campaign

Here are some of the models from this campaign -

Have you guys ever considered working with one of the plastics producers? (Like War games Atlantic, Renadra, etc)

With the rising cost of metals it might be worth looking into HIPS, or Siocast for future releases.

Carlovonsexron, I have reached out to Renadra several times. I have never gotten a response. I think this is becouse i am US based.

I am looking at Siocast, but i have no idea who uses this process. I really want to see what the final product is. I do not know if i can afford a Finecast problem.

 Paymaster Games wrote:
Carlovonsexron, I have reached out to Renadra several times. I have never gotten a response. I think this is becouse i am US based.

I am looking at Siocast, but i have no idea who uses this process. I really want to see what the final product is. I do not know if i can afford a Finecast problem.

All Bones USA from Reaper is Siocast. Corvis Belli has started to use it for some Infinity models.

Galladoria Games also does Siocast. Maybe they can even do the casting for you!

Wargames Atlantic does do a specialist service to help other people get plastics in production as well if that helps.

Thank you for the heads up. After this campaign i am going to look into to Siocast. These machines are very expencive for small companies like mine. This is one of the reason i am raising money. I metal cast right now becouse in US it is the most affordable casting mediem i have available right now. Not only that the mold are inexpencive and last for several or hundreds of castings. Resin castings are similar to in cost to metal, unless the model is large, and the molds do not last long, only 30 castings, before the wear out and can cost as much as a rubber mold to replace.

One of the reasons Siocast is taking off is it's molds are very similar to metal molds (in cost and manufacturing process) and the thermal plastic used can be reused for other casts if you have miss casts or make too much of something. You should see more and more of the casting services in the US start to offer Siocast.

Tre from Red Box Games just posted today he's looking at doing a set in Siocast and I know Patrick Keith is looking at the material for his Counterblast range. They're pretty small operations so someone is doing the casting for them as they couldn't afford the machines themselves.

Paymaster Games have posted thier first update for this campaign.

What are your thoughts?

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2139148164/going-native-rise-of-the-city-states/posts/3529808

Hi Paymaster,

What pledge level do I choose if I want to pledge for just the Kiribati General, the 2 Kiribati Officers, and one Kiribati Brawler? (It isn't offered on the KS page, but if you choose to make it available, I'd also add a Xiuhcoatl Flame Serpent to that pledge.) Much as I like the Kiribati models, I'm not interested in buying full fighting units, so the Islands pledge with multiple Warriors and Swordsmen isn't my thing.

Speaking of that Kiribati Islands Pledge, I wanted to let you know that there's a mistake in the text that might confuse potential backers. That pledge level currently reads:

"Tribal Starter Pack - Kiribati Islands

This is a one player starter kit for Tribal. This one features Pacific Northwest Tribes models."

Vermonter -

I fixed the typo, thank you for lettting me know.

I also added some pledges that might interest you.

Also i added a bunch of new Add ons, mostly a bunch of monsters like the Coatls, Crystal Skull Engine, and other large center peice models.

Hi Paymaster,

I don't think I've ever gotten a response from a company quite so tailored to a request before; you created a brand new pledge level for exactly the items I asked for. Thank you. I'm impressed.

I'd be feeling pretty bad right now if I hadn't been entirely serious, but fortunately I was entirely serious, and I'm now pledged for $55. (I added the fire coatl and a few other things, too.)

I'm no KS sage, but it couldn't hurt to list all the add-ons, old and new, somewhere on your KS campaign page, as that content may help entice new backers who want to buy into the new content you're funding now and fill some gaps in their collections from previous releases. Right now backers only see the add-ons after they've already clicked a pledge button.

I'm a new backer / customer, but I've admired your miniatures for years. Best of luck with the campaign!

Thank you for the kind words.

I will get a list of the add ons as soon as i can. Thanks for the idea.

You had a very reasonable request and ideas i did not think of. Thanks for the Idea.

While i am doing some advertising, word of mouth is key to my past successes. Please let your gaming groups and friends know about this campaign.

That starfish is amazing!

I had your site on my list for quite some time. Your minis have a lot of character. Some of the equipment of the kiribati soldiers is presented in the collection of the ethnological museum in Berlin, great to see it on a mini.

Quick question: as my hobby budget for this year is a bit tense: will the Kiribatis and the starfish be sold regularly in the future or are they for backers only?

All of the model will be availableafter the campaign ends. The Goal of the campaign is to cover the production costs for the christmas season.

I just got the character design for Patricus's first rider, the Mercenary Officer. The Mercenary Officer is planned to have three weapons, a sword, a spear, and a great weapon (likely a mace) and he will have two to three head options.

Here are some of the painted Kiribati models from this campaign.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2139148164/going-native-rise-of-the-city-states/posts/3541366

Paymaster. Recently Hudson Adams (wargames Atlantic) asked this?

“We all have our favorite companies making metal and resin figures. If you had to think of one company that would benefit from hard plastic who would it be? Caveat: it can't just be someone you like making something obscure. It would have to be popular enough to sell thousands of boxes.”

You should contact him and see if there is a way to make one of your more popular sets in plastic. Or maybe go the route that Robert Dunham did with RGD games with his fauns and Scythians.. and do a Kickstarter for a plastic set made through wargames Atlantic.

I would love some of your kribati in plastic

Beautiful paint job on those Kiribati, Paymaster. Now I have a good model to study when I paint them.

I'd never heard of the Kiribati before this campaign, but their unique armor and style immediately grabbed me. It's encouraging that others here like Smokestack have also taken a shine to them. I hope they prove popular (I honestly have no idea what will catch on in the broader market.)

May I ask what their helmets are made from?

Dried out blowfish

I contacted Wargames Atlantic. I would have to retool a kit to fit in to their system. but things are progressing.

I have emailed Siocast to inquire about thier machine/ process. I have yet to hear back from them.

Would you guys back a Kickstarter that upgraded my equipment vs. just covering casting costs?

Hello Everyone,

I wanted to let everyone know that we have reached the $3000 mark. We have reached the final push over the line to the goal.

Please help me push this campaing over the finish line. Please let your gaming groups, forums and freinds know about this campaign.

Thank you very much for your support of my company and model lines.


Here are some photos of my new models -

Are the only resin offerings in this campaign Patricus, the Akhlut and Cherufe? Everything else is in metal?

Yes. Man sized model are roughly the same price weather it is resin or metal. Metal molds are cheaper and last longer then resin molds, so the man sized models are cast in metal

Paymaster,

First, congratulations on a successful campaign. As I said before, I've admired your work for a long time, but this will be my first purchase. Happy to (finally) support your work.

Second, I just wanted to offer some thoughts regarding plastics. It's not clear to me how familiar you are with gaming plastic options, so please forgive me if what I say here seems superficial or general knowledge. I admit, I'm not the ideal person to field your questions about plastics, insofar as I'm fine with buying your models in metal. I have friends, however, who won't buy any miniatures in metal, and I know that that's not uncommon these days in the miniature market.

If you are looking to transition from metal to plastic, but unsure how to proceed, you are in the same boat as many other publishers. An additional complication is that apparently both the costs of metal and plastic resin have been going up a lot lately. I'm not a miniature producer, so this is just what I hear, and other companies could advise you better about that, although you've probably experienced rising metal costs directly yourself. To give one example, Mantic games is currently working on converting all of their metal miniatures to resin.

Here's one customer's take.

1. Polystyrene

I'm (ahem) middle-aged. When I was a kid, all miniatures were cast in metal, and when the first polystyrene plastics became available, they were of poorer quality. They've since come a long way, and the decades-long success of Games Workshop / Renedra's polystyrene ("hard plastic") in particular has ingrained that material as the one many gamers consider the "top tier." It holds detail well, is light, can be glued together with glue that actually fuses the plastic parts, making them hard to break, and it is the easiest material to clean up (remove mold lines, etc.). Most every company would probably cast their entire lines in polystyrene, but for one thing: Making the steel molds required for polystyrene casting is notoriously expensive. Once that investment has been made, however, the molds have incredible longevity, and the costs of producing the models from polystyrene are low. For this reason, companies tend to use polystyrene principally for models they expect to sell a lot of. Many companies make troops using polystyrene, but then make special units / characters that they expect to sell fewer of in metal, resin, or PVC. Mantic, again, is an example of this.

An additional complicating factor for polystyrene casting is that Games Workshop (and possibly also some British historical companies - I'm less familiar with that genre) have had a sort of lock on the best polystyrene casting company for years: Renedra, based in the U.K.. Mantic was able to get Renedra to produce a couple of sprues long ago, but have since turned to Chinese casting companies. The quality of Chinese polystyrene casting has been mixed. It seems clear that the companies who get the best results are the ones who work most closely with the casters involved, carefully checking the product and even sending people to China to monitor the quality of production. My general impression is that some companies have gotten very close to Renedra's quality level, and some have fallen noticeably short of it. Invest with care, proceed with care.

2. Siocast

A new, very exciting technology, but one I know nothing about. (I own no Siocast miniatures.) But if the hype is real, this sounds like your best option. Less prohibitively expensive than polystyrene, with remarkably good quality (apparently.) Others are welcome to weigh in.

3. PVC

Avoid this. You can get varying levels of quality from Chinese casting companies, but in general wargamers dislike working with this material, which is difficult to clean and in many cases holds detail less well than polystyrene, resin, or metal. Personally, I've found it can hold detail very well, depending on the quality control, and I have a good many PVC models I like a lot, but the complaints about cleaning mold lines etc. are absolutely true, and many customers will never buy them.

4. Metal

There's a generational divide regarding metal. Gamers like myself, who are old enough to remember when metal was the only material that miniatures were cast in, may still like or even prefer the material. Personally, I don't prefer metal, but I'm willing to buy it, especially if its the only medium available for a sculpt I like.

However, many gamers from later generations have such an aversion to metal miniatures that they won't even buy miniatures they otherwise really want if metal is the only material available. A good number of them won't touch entire lines of high quality miniatures in genres they like if metal is the only option. They find metal harder to work with, particularly for kitbashing, impractically heavy for transporting armies, costlier to ship, and much easier to chip after painted, and even though I still buy metal miniatures, I don't really disagree with them on any of those points. I don't see that mindset changing, so in general I think you will see the audience for metal miniatures diminish as the older generations pass on. (Mind you, I'm middle-aged, so it will hopefully be a long time before metal-using oldtimers are extinct!)

My experience is limited mostly to sci-fi miniatures, with a bit of fantasy miniatures thrown in. If there's a genre divide with more historical wargamers loving metal, I wouldn't be aware of it.

5. Resin

You already know the pluses and minuses of producing resin. As a customer, I have a mixed view of the material. On the one hand, it seems like resin is the closest you can get to the detail quality of the original sculpt. On the other hand, the fragility resin can have (I understand that there are different mixes with different levels of resilience) worries me, and I generally avoid buying larger resin minis that look easier to tip over, or resin miniatures with narrow bits (spears, etc.) that look more susceptible to breaking. I'm willing to buy resins, but personally I'd rather not have a lot of them. I don't want the headache of worrying about one falling off a table and shattering, or snapping a delicate part that's impossible to glue back securely. (Small resin bits like heads and shields for kitbashing are great, though. Too small and compact to break, but hold detail extremely well.)

Speaking of your own line, I bought the resin Xiuhcoatl as an add-on from your latest kickstarter. I liked the design, and the design seemed solid enough not to be too risky for breakage. Other models of yours, however, like the (beautiful) Piasa bird sculpt with its long tail and delicate-looking antlers, make me worry about ease of breakage. Perhaps its fine; I don't own the model and haven't tested it. I know many gamers are much less nervous about resin miniatures than I am, and a good number prefer them.

I've also had a number of bad experiences with resin miniatures containing casting bubbles that destroy detail and make the miniature more fragile. This quality control issue (which of course varies by company) has also made me hesitant to buy too many resin minis.

So, very long story short, if I were you I would:

1. Seriously investigate Siocast and see if what it promises bears out.

2. Depending on how #1 goes, perhaps investigate producing a single unit of troopers - one your are confident would sell the most - in polystyrene. While this might lead you to think about producing the most widely popular troops you have, you should also consider what the existing competition for them would be. If there are good Aztec warrior polystyrene troops out there already from a couple of companies, they might not be your best bet, and if you didn't match or exceed the quality of the existing options, you'd probably be digging yourself into a big hole. Also keep in mind that the quality of your polystyrene kit isn't just dependent on the sculpts, but on the execution by the casting company, and getting the best out of that isn't easy and requires care, caution, and monitoring if you go with a Chinese company. Bad results will hurt your sales.

Also keep in mind that people who buy polystyrene miniatures want them designed for versatility. They don't want polystyrene versions of the same sculpts you produce in metal or resin, which are designed to go together one way. They want multi-part figures that can be given different heads, arms, sometimes even separate torsos and legs (but some hobbyists prefer that while others hate having to deal with it and want torsos and legs fused - this all gets complicated.)

If it were me trying to do polystyrene, I'd do a kickstarter to fund just one or two troop units, given the complications and expense involved. Would I myself back it? Probably not, but I'm not looking to build large armies from multipart kits, just characters and small squads. The Kiribati adventurers pledge suited me just fine. Backers for a polystyrene troop kickstarter would probably want to buy multiple sprues for their armies, and ideally you'd want to get enough backers so you could afford to price those sprue bundles lower than the final retail price you'd charge on your website. (That price break is part of the hook to getting backers to fund your campaign in the first place.)

Those are my thoughts, offered with good intent for whatever they are worth. Good luck!