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https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/UeSNmXryOfMolf39.pdf

As an ork player. the waagh was an unexpected buff, and the buggy changes were great no more clunky vehicle squadrons just plain rule of 3 with extra steps. Still nothing addressing morale issues which is very frustrating. I think we have the mortal wound spam list getting better, the goff list a big winner here... but codex internal balance still terrible and most units and builds are F tier. I look at what they did with space marines with armor of contempt and these changes, plus other armies like Necrons that got some huge buffs and wonder why GW will not put the effort into Orks (or listening to their play testers telling them what orks need and ignoring all feedback)

I'm more inclined to give my IG another go, but the core problem remains (playing around objectves), and probably won't be fixed until they get a new codex.

I don't fault GW for not being able to fix them with just some bandaid-slates and pointadjustments though.

Had 2 Baneblades, an Octoblade and a Stormhammer collecting dust for years, looks like it's the best time to run a Super-Heavy Detachment.

 MinscS2 wrote:
I'm more inclined to give my IG another go, but the core problem remains (playing around objectves), and probably won't be fixed until they get a new codex.

I don't fault GW for not being able to fix them with just some bandaid-slates and pointadjustments though.

I think the secondaries will give IG some life.

They reversed one of the most fluffy Tyranid rules ever devised, and made is so that if our Warlord is killed we lose one of our armies key army wide abilities.

No balance slate nerfs and some reasonable points drops alongside good secondary selection.

More than I could have hoped for after the dumpster fire that Feb-March were.

I am content.

I'm not overly fussy about "competitiveness" or whatever, but for my Necrons I'm going to bother paying attention to Command Protocols for the first time, and – combined with the point changes – I'm feeling inclined to dig out my Orks for the first time since the 9E Codex arrived.

The NDKs, a model I don't own, don't want to own and don't like, still does not get AoC. Not much balancing, specialy of the stuff I like, but at the same time no nerf, which is a huge plus.

Compared to the kicking Orks took a little while back, we've done very well over the last two announcements.

It could be better, but it's a big step toward getting us out of low WR% hell.

 Afrodactyl wrote:
Compared to the kicking Orks took a little while back, we've done very well over the last two announcements.

It could be better, but it's a big step toward getting us out of low WR% hell.

And the more important takeaway, I think is that GW is willing to walk back nerfs.

I play Daemons, so…

Not a fan of what they did to Nids, but overall I'm pretty happy. They reigned in a lot of issues, and gave out some very generous boosts between this + Points + Secondaries to a lot of armies.

Overall, I'm pretty happy that they are taking this kind of an active role and are not afraid to make major changes.

 JNAProductions wrote:
I play Daemons, so…

Daemons are potentially the only red headed step child. GSC were poor into Nids and Harlies, but great into Elves and ok into Tau.

Pure daemons were also rough with the top 3, but did well into Elves and really well into other lower tier armies. It gets muddy when you throw in soup. It could be that with secondaries the army will be survivable with WR currently in the 43%ish bracket.

With the nerfs to the top they could be "fine", but not great.

 Nazrak wrote:
I'm not overly fussy about "competitiveness" or whatever, but for my Necrons I'm going to bother paying attention to Command Protocols for the first time,

I'm in the same boat. I think I've run a Noble twice here in 9e. So I've spent the last two years paying virtually zero attention to the Protocols.

I also have to go measure my old 3e Monolith. See if I can squeeze it + a character into the "wholly within range" of a VoD.

The new monolith is pretty similar in dimensions to the old one so I would think Veil is likely still no go there.

 Daedalus81 wrote:
The new monolith is pretty similar in dimensions to the old one so I would think Veil is likely still no go there.

Still, it doesn't cost me anything to check when I get home.

2+ save AoC Baneblades, I'll take it. Maybe they won't be a complete liability even in casual games now?

Let's see:

Dark Eldar - zzzzzzZZZZZ. No changes to their characters even though the CP change cripples them because they're absolute garbage without relics or warlord traits (a fact many posters here repeatedly assured me was irrelevant bEcAuSe WhY wOuLdN't YoU gIvE tHeM rElIcS?). I hope you all like Drazhar because I suspect you'll be seeing an awful lot more of him (albeit not from me because I have no interest special characters). Also no help for the units that never see play, but I guess that's a given at this point.

They were my favourite army for a long time but it's really getting hard to maintain any enthusiasm for them. However strong they might be, the rules continue to bore me to sleep.


Necrons - Command Protocols are a good deal less obnoxious, which is very nice. I also like that you can choose one bonus and leave it on for the entire game, for when you don't feel like faffing about. Also got some nice point drops (albeit ones that make certain wargear entirely pointless). Funnily enough, Necrons have almost the opposite problem as DE - too many HQs I want to use, not enough slots for them.

Very tempted to give them a shot.


Ynnari - No chance, still unplayable.

Scions getting Hammer of the Emperor is a nice change, along Armour of Contempt counting for Astra Militarum vehicles.

*CACKLES IN RAD WREATHED SPYDERS AND SCARABS*
Melt before me!!!!!
3*3 Spyders w/ beamers
3*9 Scarabs
3*3 Technomancer
That's only 64PL!!

OMG...

Command Protocols don't require BATTLEFORGED!!!

I CAN RUN ALL MY SCARABS
9*9 SCARABS
1*3 SCARABS
56PL
+SPYDERS
+TECHNOMANCER
106PL
Ok, drop one full Scarab squad
and it's under 2,000 points!

I'll gladly never have to deal with CPs or Strats to run all my Scarabs!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

ccs wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:
The new monolith is pretty similar in dimensions to the old one so I would think Veil is likely still no go there.

Still, it doesn't cost me anything to check when I get home.

There's a rare rules section that covers this, you can do it!

 Daedalus81 wrote:

Daemons are potentially the only red headed step child. GSC were poor into Nids and Harlies, but great into Elves and ok into Tau.

Pure daemons were also rough with the top 3, but did well into Elves and really well into other lower tier armies. It gets muddy when you throw in soup. It could be that with secondaries the army will be survivable with WR currently in the 43%ish bracket.

With the nerfs to the top they could be "fine", but not great.

Yeah right, after Nephilim just gutted their builds more than any other faction on top of not giving them a single buff to a codex unit I'm sure they'll be doing "okay".

 Blndmage wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:

ccs wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:
The new monolith is pretty similar in dimensions to the old one so I would think Veil is likely still no go there.

Still, it doesn't cost me anything to check when I get home.

There's a rare rules section that covers this, you can do it!

I don't think you understand what's being discussed/joked about.
If the rule you're alluding to is the one concerning large models disembarking? No, it will not work. Because there is no disembarking going on when using a VoD.

ccs wrote:

 Blndmage wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:

ccs wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:
The new monolith is pretty similar in dimensions to the old one so I would think Veil is likely still no go there.

Still, it doesn't cost me anything to check when I get home.

There's a rare rules section that covers this, you can do it!

I don't think you understand what's being discussed/joked about.
If the rule you're alluding to is the one concerning large models disembarking? No, it will not work. Because there is no disembarking going on when using a VoD.

There's a rule about setting up large models and them not being able to shoot and basically do much aside from abilities for the turn.

So, does this mean Armageddon Steel Legion vehicles count AP -2 as AP 0 because armor of contempt means AP -2 is treated as AP -1 and the doctrine Armageddon: Industrial Efficiency AP -1 is treated as AP 0?

 Void__Dragon wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

Daemons are potentially the only red headed step child. GSC were poor into Nids and Harlies, but great into Elves and ok into Tau.

Pure daemons were also rough with the top 3, but did well into Elves and really well into other lower tier armies. It gets muddy when you throw in soup. It could be that with secondaries the army will be survivable with WR currently in the 43%ish bracket.

With the nerfs to the top they could be "fine", but not great.

Yeah right, after Nephilim just gutted their builds more than any other faction on top of not giving them a single buff to a codex unit I'm sure they'll be doing "okay".

There's a person from almost every faction saying that they were totally screwed over by the CP changes, so...you'll have to forgive me if I'm a bit skeptical of the doomposting.

there is screwed over, being forced to rebuild and army. And there is not being able to build a working army. IF got screwed over by 9th. Imperial Knights got killed by 9th ed.
Having 6CP as GK or Custodes and having to pay for warlord traits is bad, but the same thing for knights, specialy if someone had an army build around multiple traits is an army killer.

Daemon got screwed but atleast they still have a codex coming.
GW just completely forgot GSC existed.

Again.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Void__Dragon wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

Daemons are potentially the only red headed step child. GSC were poor into Nids and Harlies, but great into Elves and ok into Tau.

Pure daemons were also rough with the top 3, but did well into Elves and really well into other lower tier armies. It gets muddy when you throw in soup. It could be that with secondaries the army will be survivable with WR currently in the 43%ish bracket.

With the nerfs to the top they could be "fine", but not great.

Yeah right, after Nephilim just gutted their builds more than any other faction on top of not giving them a single buff to a codex unit I'm sure they'll be doing "okay".

There's a person from almost every faction saying that they were totally screwed over by the CP changes, so...you'll have to forgive me if I'm a bit skeptical of the doomposting.

The big issue for Chaos Daemons is that the competitive builds focused around spamming Exalted Greater Daemons. The limitation to 6CP drastically reigns that option in. Competitive Chaos Daemons don't have any other viable builds.

In my experience, trying to play a well rounded list with Chaos Daemons just feels bad. Guard and Tau shoot you off the table before you can do anything. Space Marines have less shooting, but many close combat attacks - point for point, Intercessors out punch Bloodcrushers. Intercessors aren't even a dedicated Melee unit and Bloodcrushers are!

 ph34r wrote:
So, does this mean Armageddon Steel Legion vehicles count AP -2 as AP 0 because armor of contempt means AP -2 is treated as AP -1 and the doctrine Armageddon: Industrial Efficiency AP -1 is treated as AP 0?

Unless I'm missing something: No - Armageddon vehicles do not get AoC due to their trait.

Aoc excludes "Models that are under the effects of any other rule that worsens or reduces the Armour Penetration characteristic of an attack".
All Armageddon vehicles have a rule that reduces AP.

That's why all the other AoC subfactions (eg Salamanders) got similar traits replaced with "you can't reroll a wound reroll vs units of this subfaction" basically.


That being said I expect them to fix this rather quickly, this has to be accidental. I expect them to get the same no-rerolls-rule as everyone else got

 ph34r wrote:
So, does this mean Armageddon Steel Legion vehicles count AP -2 as AP 0 because armor of contempt means AP -2 is treated as AP -1 and the doctrine Armageddon: Industrial Efficiency AP -1 is treated as AP 0?

No. Check the last exception to Armor of Contempt. If your model already has a rule to reduce AP then you can't use AoC. In your example you can't use AoC since you already have a rule to reduce AP (as you wrote it).