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Wasn't sure which forum to place this in, if it shouldn't be in Dakka Discussions please feel free to move it.

Goonhammer has published a great retrospective on Starship Troopers the Miniatures Game. I was happy to be a source for them for some information, and think the articles do a wonderful job of covering the lifespan of SST. For those that played it, for those that knew of it and never got into it, and for those that had no idea it existed, I think it is a great read.

Part 1:
https://www.goonhammer.com/what-happened-to-starship-troopers-part-1-rise/

Part 2:
https://www.goonhammer.com/what-happened-to-starship-troopers-part-2-fall/

It was a great blast from past

I remember them selling metal models of stuff most gamers would build from popsicle sticks. Like a laser fence. Or missiles in flight that were better represented by the templates/tokens they provided in the core box.

Fortunately, several of their metals were bought by Rebel Minis
https://www.rebelminis.com/sciencefiction.html

Enjoyed the game. So great game. Too bad it died out :(

Brilliant, but flawed game. In some ways a decade ahead of its time.

Yeah I have fond memories of this one.

Kudos to Judgedoug for shining the light on this one.

I was there. We really were part of something big.

Andy Chambers on FB wrote:The first thing I wrote after being at Games Workshop for 14 years doing 40K and related titles was another set of miniatures rules Starship Troopers! Total shift in career there for the Chambers, eh? It seems the game is fondly remembered even though it floundered on the licensing rocks after just a few years, so much so Ben at Goonhammer wrote an article about it and sent me questions (readable! not a podcast). I, for one, am looking forward to part 2, part 1 is here:

I'll just put here what I wrote in the comments after the second article.

Excellent pair of articles.
I disagree with the idea that it could ever have been a 40k killer, and I would argue it was doomed to be a limited-run from the start. Both assumptions made just based on the limited number of in-fiction factions the writers/designers had to work with. There was simply very little area left for expansion. However, the game undeniably died earlier than it might have and your articles do a fantastic job of exploring the many contributing factors. I would enjoy reading more articles in this vein in the future.

However, I was very surprised to see no mention of "Rebel Miniatures" who acquired many of the masters for metal SST miniatures. They made subtle adjustments to some -taking them out of the IP infringement field of fire- and now many of those great figures live on in their 28mm Sci-Fi lines. https://rebelminis.com/scie...
Miniature lines changing hands is par for the course in our hobby, but SST does have the distinction of being one of the only licensed wargames to have the miniatures still in production -albeit in slightly modified form- long after license expiration and game death.

There's been number of games that expand beyond official book/movies contents though. Introducing new races etc wouldn't be impossible.

As an additional - mongoose at the same time had the Babylon 5 licence for Call To Arms - essentially a battle fleet gothic analogue.

That lasted a bit longer and got a second edition but ultimately also died from (a) balance issues and(b) inability to supply miniatures.

Oh yeah another game I enjoyed though had less opportunity to play with miniatures(lack of opponents). That worked pretty damn well by virtual board. Better than say 40k/AOS would likely as ships move individually anyway and models move in straight lines/rotate.

Too bad have forgotten name of the program used and where the datafiles were :(

There was also star trek version later. Pretty fun though ships looking so same generally was bit annoying.

Was it vassel?

tneva82 wrote:
There's been number of games that expand beyond official book/movies contents though. Introducing new races etc wouldn't be impossible.

Sure it is hypothetically possible, but how many were successful as minis games for an extended period of time?

I can't think of any. All the examples I can think of are either original settings that grow organically (Infinity or Dark Age), established settings that mostly mine their own lore (LOTR, SW), or derivative settings that do some combination thereof (WHFB/40K/AOS)

Established settings successfully expanded in a Wargaming context is a much smaller pool.

The closest I can think of would be the WEG Star Wars RPG which explored -and resulted in some minis for- new corners of the universe and was an accepted part of the universe until the demarcation between Cannon and Legends.

The various FFG games have added new backstory characters, vehicles and scenarios but they are all versions of things, characters, vehicles and races/factions (and storylines if we're honest) that already exist in the massive SW universe.

 Eilif wrote:
I'll just put here what I wrote in the comments after the second article.

Excellent pair of articles.
I disagree with the idea that it could ever have been a 40k killer, and I would argue it was doomed to be a limited-run from the start. Both assumptions made just based on the limited number of in-fiction factions the writers/designers had to work with. There was simply very little area left for expansion.

I think, in hindsight, it had more space than you mightve thought. One thing that made FFG's model so successful with Xwing was the focus on named individuals and chop and chamge special abilities which meant one model (the t-65 xwing ) incrementally changed and shifted a lot over the life of the game. Various named MI units and personas could have done that, as could various arachnid 'breeds' - not new units but the equivalent of hive Fleets.

In many ways that would've suited Mongoose's book centric approach.

locarno24 wrote:


I think, in hindsight, it had more space than you mightve thought. One thing that made FFG's model so successful with Xwing was the focus on named individuals and chop and chamge special abilities which meant one model (the t-65 xwing ) incrementally changed and shifted a lot over the life of the game. Various named MI units and personas could have done that, as could various arachnid 'breeds' - not new units but the equivalent of hive Fleets.

In many ways that would've suited Mongoose's book centric approach.

I don't know that it could have worked for long, but that could certainly have possibly have given some more life to the game. Especially since the original source material does have a significant amount of personal and technological growth arcs.

Mongoose' core competency with RPG development could certainly have been an asset in that sort of development.

I'm not familiar enough with the game to know: did Mongoose produce much in the way of campaign material?

All this to say, I see many ways that the life of the game could have lengthened but nothing to counter the fundamental idea that it was very much an IP with a limited life span.

An interesting read.

I remember when this came out, and was hailed as a “40K killer”, and claims the rules were brought with Andy Chambers, having originally been 40K 4th Ed (maybe 5th?).

Nice the article itself clears up the latter for the made up nonsense it always was though.

Never actually played the game, but some of the models were quite nice.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
An interesting read.

I remember when this came out, and was hailed as a “40K killer”, and claims the rules were brought with Andy Chambers, having originally been 40K 4th Ed (maybe 5th?).

Nice the article itself clears up the latter for the made up nonsense it always was though.

Never actually played the game, but some of the models were quite nice.

A few years later every MMO was a "WoW Killer" (Referencing World of Warcraft). I remember Warmachine players would spout the same stuff

It does make one wonder who is using the term "_____ Killer" and why. It's clearly a marketing term used or supported by the people who manufacture the new game.

When used by players of the game though, there often seems to me to be a sense of desperation mixed with the excitement. A whif of the (often vain) hope that players of the major _______ game will turn to this new "____ killer" game in numbers great enough to ensure that the new game can continue to get releases and support.

It dang near never works though. If you like a new game, buy it and play it. However, if it's not one of the big players, don't get too attached, and maybe have a generic ruleset waiting in the wings to give those minis new life when the "____killer" game inevitably dies.

I did like reading that they made an effort to include both the Verhoeven portrayal of the MI and the book versions.

The GW Killer was an ongoing trope in late 90's all the way up to the mid 2000's. EVERY new game that was coming and going came out was using that as their benchmark tagline.

Mongoose, at the same time as their ST/ Battlefield tabletop/ B5 debacle was a victim of their own hubris.

They ended up choking on their full slice of humble pie.

When you throw down the gauntlet on your audience as hard as Sprange did, suffer that amount of backlash, and then continue to come back time and again with something else- You can't help admire his grit. I'm honestly surprised that he can walk straight with a pair that big.

Not mentioned is the straight up throwing down the gauntlet of the "Pre-painted figures" claims that were going to be the "Next Big Thing".
Sprange lost a lot of clout with BOTH trying to juggle too many chainsaws, and trying to fund so many IP's. All the while pushing crappy pre-painted figures that were supposedly better then "90% of the fans could paint". He fought off a revolution, at that point.

Judge Dredd- whose figures were just gak awful, along with that same crap low grade plastic that they pumped out in the first iteration of ST figures- THEN The Kickstarter, which pretty much lost most funds then was promised- BUT sent Sprange over to Warlord, who is/ or was put him to better use, and hopefully put him under "Fat Bloke" Paul Sawyer's wing, and hopefully he earned some stripes in Warlord's stable.

As to the "Other" races for the game- The issue was simple, and You use the races from other companies.
Starship Troopers, in a nutshell was Alien Threat against your flavor of choice race/ species.

FASA had VOR: The Maelstrom,
GW had 40K/ Rogue Trader,
Ral Partha had Some space game,
Star Mogul/ Salvage Crew, from an old company called- ,
VOID 1.0, from IKOR,
Warzone (the REAL GW KILLER o.O) from Pressman, and numerous other figures you could throw into the mix.
Your choices just had to mirror off of, and improve a little to fit the mix.

You had to work for it, but we were kicking around rules sets for VOR figures back at the end of the run. They were pretty gaktastic, but FASA had a good spread in their own right that fit right in with the reaction play, along with being able to plop down a MI equivalents, with some other races that were JUST enough to be a difference. Union, Growlers, and Neo Soviets' to name but a few.

These days, I would recommend using any of the numerous companies out there's figures that are Sci-Fi oriented.

Use the Mobile Infantry as your baseline, and go from there.

(Looking hard at you Dakka, for that spread that you currently have.)

The Verhoeven MI were given to us Mobile Infantry who were pimping the game, at the time.

Thanks again for the link to the company that is repurposed both those, AND the Spinespur figures.

The_Real_Chris wrote:
Was it vassel?

Ah yes. Vassal. Thanks for reminder.

Maybe I can dig that one and acta module again. Could be fun.

Onthe Vor tangent, you can still pick up pretty much the entire line from iron wind metals - even if you think they are gaktastic

https://ironwindmetals.com/index.php/categories/cat-vor-the-maelstrom

Seb Games has taken over Void 1.1 with a recent relaunch. Noble Knight Games is apparently doing US distribution.

https://www.nobleknight.com/Publisher/Seb-Games

Free Void 1.1 rules and army books are here
https://www.seb-games.com/games/void/void-1-1-downloads/

The VOR rulebook is quite cheap and it's notable as a system that includes a unit creation mechanic.

Grot6, thanks for the spinespur info, I was wracking my brain trying to remember where those figs came from.

I've got a Spinespur rulebook if anyone is looking for one...

 Grot 6 wrote:

Spoiler:

The GW Killer was an ongoing trope in late 90's all the way up to the mid 2000's. EVERY new game that was coming and going came out was using that as their benchmark tagline.

Mongoose, at the same time as their ST/ Battlefield tabletop/ B5 debacle was a victim of their own hubris.

They ended up choking on their full slice of humble pie.

When you throw down the gauntlet on your audience as hard as Sprange did, suffer that amount of backlash, and then continue to come back time and again with something else- You can't help admire his grit. I'm honestly surprised that he can walk straight with a pair that big.

Not mentioned is the straight up throwing down the gauntlet of the "Pre-painted figures" claims that were going to be the "Next Big Thing".
Sprange lost a lot of clout with BOTH trying to juggle too many chainsaws, and trying to fund so many IP's. All the while pushing crappy pre-painted figures that were supposedly better then "90% of the fans could paint". He fought off a revolution, at that point.

Judge Dredd- whose figures were just gak awful, along with that same crap low grade plastic that they pumped out in the first iteration of ST figures- THEN The Kickstarter, which pretty much lost most funds then was promised- BUT sent Sprange over to Warlord, who is/ or was put him to better use, and hopefully put him under "Fat Bloke" Paul Sawyer's wing, and hopefully he earned some stripes in Warlord's stable.

As to the "Other" races for the game- The issue was simple, and You use the races from other companies.
Starship Troopers, in a nutshell was Alien Threat against your flavor of choice race/ species.

FASA had VOR: The Maelstrom,
GW had 40K/ Rogue Trader,
Ral Partha had Some space game,
Star Mogul/ Salvage Crew, from an old company called- ,
VOID 1.0, from IKOR,

Warzone (the REAL GW KILLER o.O) from Pressman, and numerous other figures you could throw into the mix.
Your choices just had to mirror off of, and improve a little to fit the mix.

Spoiler:

You had to work for it, but we were kicking around rules sets for VOR figures back at the end of the run. They were pretty gaktastic, but FASA had a good spread in their own right that fit right in with the reaction play, along with being able to plop down a MI equivalents, with some other races that were JUST enough to be a difference. Union, Growlers, and Neo Soviets' to name but a few.

These days, I would recommend using any of the numerous companies out there's figures that are Sci-Fi oriented.

Use the Mobile Infantry as your baseline, and go from there.

(Looking hard at you Dakka, for that spread that you currently have.)

The Verhoeven MI were given to us Mobile Infantry who were pimping the game, at the time.

Thanks again for the link to the company that is repurposed both those, AND the Spinespur figures.

Warzone was really popular in my area, back home.
What killed it essentially was their distribution issues.
People couldn't get what they wanted and at the mean time the walls of the shop were filled with GW stuff

Still have the Starship Troopers box

Warzone remains the only miniatures wargame that I know was officially translated into Finnish. I don't think it was very popular, but I do own the old (full-color!) rulebook, as well as some of the plastic miniatures from its 1st edition starter box - made of some horrible hard, shiny plastic impervious to solvent based adhesives.

The miniatures range was full of goofy giant pauldrons and weapons, but they do have some charm. They're also for the most part easily available from Prince August, who bought the old stock and presumably the moulds when Target Games went under (unrelated to the later edition of the Warzone game by Prodos)

A couple of really great articles. I liked the rules but you really need people who want to play it for the experience rather than hoping for a balanced game.

There as been mention of warrior bugs stls. Anything for smaller scales? 3mm is my preference but 6mm or 15mm would be interesting to see.