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Made in us
Archmagos Veneratus Extremis




On the Internet

So since the original "thoughts" topic seems to want to spend time not wanting to play the game they're talking about and posting memes instead so I thought I'd open the floor for people to share thoughts both positive and about the edition.

Let's keep it civil though and free of memery.

And to start with a negative: I was rather excited to see that Nostromo weapons were interesting side grade options over straight upgrades, but that only holds true as long as there is no tax for them. With the power weapon tax on them I think the only units getting chainblades/glaives are the ones with them on their datasheets and I'll stick to the cheaper ligjtning claws for my tacticals.

   
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Barpharanges







If I were to have a negative, I am a bit annoyed Kakophoni aren't Line in IIIrd Company Elite - though I guess that's simply to make sure you actually pay the Tactical Tax (though tbf you can give them all rending flamers for like 30 points).

I also think the Alpha Legion's Coils of the Hydra Rite of War is just ... well it's just *gak*. You can have three units from one of the other legions, and they all have to be from the same legion... and they all have to be the same unit ... and that's it. No mixing or matching? Kind of annoying, especially given they have to sit on the board and are 100% gonna get wiped turn one.

At the same time, Rewards of Treachery is a treat of a rule.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/07/02 21:32:47


The biggest indicator someone is a loser is them complaining about 3d printers or piracy.  
   
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Impassive Inquisitorial Interrogator






My general thoughts on 2.0 so far is that it was so close, but stumbled right at the finish line in a lot of ways. They also couldn't avoid the inevitable GW "random tweaks for no apparent reason".

All and all though, it looks to be overall solid.

I am beyond miffed that the Red Hand Destroyer Caedre weapons are back up to 15pts, when they were the ones that made them worth taking in the first place back in 1.0.
   
Made in gb
Devastating Dark Reaper





I really like the idea of new the reaction system as it reminds me of the AoS command point system in many ways. I am slightly perturbed that reaction fire and overwatch use full BS as it will make some units very dangerous to go after but it might lead to interesting counterplays with people baiting, bluffing or using tools like pinning. I like that some of the more clunky mechanics have been streamlined (e.g. resolving attacks against the nearest model) but the rules seem quite clumsily written - it feels like everything uses too many words to explain which makes the rules less clear and some things are just obviously wrong and others are genuinely unclear.

One of my biggest pet hates about 1st edition was the way artificer sergeants could selectively leap in front of incoming fire to protect their unit or chuck their squadmates under the bus for anything AP2 or better. They've actually doubled down on that but I'm not sure how big a problem it will be until I play. I plan to make use of snipers to unilaterally remove my opponent's artificer sergeants and it might be the case people are less willing to risk them since the LD bonus they give is actually really important now.
   
Made in gb
Preparing the Invasion of Terra






In general its very enjoyable. The tweaks are good overall, especially the changes to Psychic Powers.
On a more specific note: Iron Warriors go brrrrrrrr
   
Made in ca
Librarian with Freaky Familiar






I think ultimatly from really diving into the rules and looking at them, and having a few weeks now to pick apart what ifs, hypothetical, extreme RAI vs RAW, my stance of HH 2.0 is the same stance i had with 8th ed 40k.

Its very fun, its definitely a big step from the previous edition, and with that big step there are defiantly some areas that need to be refined and or corrected. There is a good amount of "Well this really does not make any sense or can easily be abused" but can very easily be corrected.

Example of this. RAW state taht on the pile in move, you MAY pile in, at your initive step when you go, because of this wording, this allow you to basically make a scrifice with one of your models to throw him at a charging enemy and if thye kill him, and nothing else of yours in in base contact, the two units effecivly are out of combat at that point because you can choose NOT to pile in and basically by sacificing a single model you dont have to fight them. This clearly is not meant to be the case as in every previous edition you were requiered to pile in.

The fix here is simply change it to you MUST pile in, not may.

Another example of some rules that seemed horribly over looked are the psyker power on tsons, the best example of this is the pyromancy psyker power where you can take a small blast template and place it over the center of your caster, and anything friend or foe under it takes an automatic hit. HOWEVER for Tsons, you can make an osrion do this, but becuase of the dread base size you can only barly clip things in base contact while other casters can hit at least 2 deep. Its clear that this power needs ot be chaged for things like that.

Again, HH 2.0 i think,is a a great place, but right now needs to have some serious house rules put into place for some very specific problems but i look forward to GW HOPFULLY taking the game in a better direction then 8th did with 9th.

To many unpainted models to count. 
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




Not impressed. The game has evolved. HH isn't worth it. Our community split for a few months in HH 1.0, but we aren't going to look back. Templates are only good in FoW.
   
Made in gb
Preparing the Invasion of Terra






 Backspacehacker wrote:
Another example of some rules that seemed horribly over looked are the psyker power on tsons, the best example of this is the pyromancy psyker power where you can take a small blast template and place it over the center of your caster, and anything friend or foe under it takes an automatic hit. HOWEVER for Tsons, you can make an osrion do this, but becuase of the dread base size you can only barly clip things in base contact while other casters can hit at least 2 deep. Its clear that this power needs ot be chaged for things like that.

Honestly, all things aside, Pyromancy suddenly being reeeaaallllyyyy good is just hilarious.
It's also weirdly in line with what happened to the Tsons after Prospero when the more reality-bending Psykers, the Pyrae, Raptora, and Pavoni, got super buff whereas the Corvidae and Athanaeans weren't so much weak but noticed a dip in the potency of their powers.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/07/02 23:39:39


 
   
Made in us
Mekboy Hammerin' Somethin'





Sedona, Arizona

By GW standards it's great, and it's not bad even by them.

There are some rules failures which I expect to be fixed pretty quickly, such as how you can currently position your squads in such a way that you'll lose 1-3 models to a charging enemy in CC, but then make them waste the rest of the wound pool and auto-detach from combat with no moral check or loss.

Some of the balance also seems.... Strange. While no one expected perfect balance between legions, World Eaters look to be head and shoulders below all the others. Their complete lack of a legion-unique ap3 melee weapon at initiative, when every other legion has at least one (and maybe also have ap2 at initiative options) is just bizarre. Combine that with their unique unit trait / HQ upgrade actually making your units significantly easier to kill.


   
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 morganfreeman wrote:


Some of the balance also seems.... Strange. While no one expected perfect balance between legions, World Eaters look to be head and shoulders below all the others. Their complete lack of a legion-unique ap3 melee weapon at initiative, when every other legion has at least one (and maybe also have ap2 at initiative options) is just bizarre. Combine that with their unique unit trait / HQ upgrade actually making your units significantly easier to kill.



Not to mention the closest thing, the caedre weapons, are 15pts apiece which is obcenely overcosted. Maybe I'm harping on this but I just really like the look/idea of them.
   
Made in ca
Librarian with Freaky Familiar






 Gert wrote:
 Backspacehacker wrote:
Another example of some rules that seemed horribly over looked are the psyker power on tsons, the best example of this is the pyromancy psyker power where you can take a small blast template and place it over the center of your caster, and anything friend or foe under it takes an automatic hit. HOWEVER for Tsons, you can make an osrion do this, but becuase of the dread base size you can only barly clip things in base contact while other casters can hit at least 2 deep. Its clear that this power needs ot be chaged for things like that.

Honestly, all things aside, Pyromancy suddenly being reeeaaallllyyyy good is just hilarious.
It's also weirdly in line with what happened to the Tsons after Prospero when the more reality-bending Psykers, the Pyrae, Raptora, and Pavoni, got super buff whereas the Corvidae and Athanaeans weren't so much weak but noticed a dip in the potency of their powers.


Well if you are talking about cult powers funny enough the best one is corvadae because it lets you turn dreads into snipers, but in terms of psyker powers yeah and whats even more funny is pyromancy can be SUPER silly because there is no cap on how many times you can cast the same power.
So im sitting here like....im gonna need to bring like 9 large templates to 2000+ points games because you can just spam their pyro ability and just have 9 large tempaltes cover a massive chunk of the field and any model that goes through it, or it touches gets auto hit by a S6 AP4 hit which surface value is not that big of a deal, but when you drop 3 of them onto the same squad each model is getting hit, so if you manage to hit 5 models 3 times i mean, 15 hits that are against that model, not unit so thats a lot of wounds you gotta roll for

To many unpainted models to count. 
   
Made in us
Mekboy Hammerin' Somethin'





Sedona, Arizona

 ProfSrlojohn wrote:
 morganfreeman wrote:


Some of the balance also seems.... Strange. While no one expected perfect balance between legions, World Eaters look to be head and shoulders below all the others. Their complete lack of a legion-unique ap3 melee weapon at initiative, when every other legion has at least one (and maybe also have ap2 at initiative options) is just bizarre. Combine that with their unique unit trait / HQ upgrade actually making your units significantly easier to kill.



Not to mention the closest thing, the caedre weapons, are 15pts apiece which is obcenely overcosted. Maybe I'm harping on this but I just really like the look/idea of them.


Those are actually free for Rampager squads, which are in the Libre itself. As best I can tell the idea is that caedre weapons are weak because rampagers get them for free, meaning that rampagers are generally 5-8 points cheaper per model with each legion's comparative version (who usually start with a chainsword and have to buy their special melee weapons). I honestly think the designers ran out of ideas for what would make World Eaters melee unique, so they gave them slightly worse off-brand weapons and made them cheaper than other equivalent legion-specific vet units so that WE players can efficiently 'trade up' into them. Because having slightly cheaper elites dragging down strictly better elites through weight of numbers is berzerkery I guess...

So far as builds go, double falax blades seems to be the go-to with 4+ rending making them pretty good at trading with like initiative or hurting slower units. Meteor hammers have some potential with reach and breaching 4, giving you the opportunity to bully terminators or other vet choices, hopefully crippling them before they're hit back. The 2 handed axes are potentially O.K. at killing other 2w vet units. So they all kinda do something useful, but none of them are great at anything.

I still have no idea wtf you're supposed to do with Red Butchers though. Being slightly tougher to wound in exchange for infinitely easier to hit is not a good trade off in a world where the basic melee weapon is a chainsword with Shred. Especially when so many special effects (breaching and rending) trigger during the wound-step, often times making it strictly better to have a malus to wound your target, as you can then reroll to fish for procs.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2022/07/03 02:56:42


   
Made in us
Crazed Spirit of the Defiler





I think it looks good overall but I really wish they had been even with the rites of war for all the legions. It really feels like some of the legions got their rites written by fanboys and others got phoned in. The fact that some get multiple and others get one is bad too.

Iron within, Iron without 
   
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On the Internet

 evil_kiwi_60 wrote:
I think it looks good overall but I really wish they had been even with the rites of war for all the legions. It really feels like some of the legions got their rites written by fanboys and others got phoned in. The fact that some get multiple and others get one is bad too.

I can't speak for everyone's but the Night Lords ROW are two of their old ones (sadly not the ones from the Thramas Crusade though).
   
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I had a big WTF moment when I saw the Contemptor weapons and that they created specific, "gravis" versions of all the weapons they can carry.

Not fond of that, as we've all seen where that leads to.
   
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Boom! Leman Russ Commander





 evil_kiwi_60 wrote:
I think it looks good overall but I really wish they had been even with the rites of war for all the legions. It really feels like some of the legions got their rites written by fanboys and others got phoned in. The fact that some get multiple and others get one is bad too.

Almost none of the Traitor Rites give their iconic units Line, but Loyalists get a lot of it thrown around. Does feel like two different teams or individuals had different ideas when writing them.
   
Made in de
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Unknown_Lifeform wrote:
I really like the idea of new the reaction system as it reminds me of the AoS command point system in many ways. I am slightly perturbed that reaction fire and overwatch use full BS as it will make some units very dangerous to go after but it might lead to interesting counterplays with people baiting, bluffing or using tools like pinning. I like that some of the more clunky mechanics have been streamlined (e.g. resolving attacks against the nearest model) but the rules seem quite clumsily written - it feels like everything uses too many words to explain which makes the rules less clear and some things are just obviously wrong and others are genuinely unclear.

One of my biggest pet hates about 1st edition was the way artificer sergeants could selectively leap in front of incoming fire to protect their unit or chuck their squadmates under the bus for anything AP2 or better. They've actually doubled down on that but I'm not sure how big a problem it will be until I play. I plan to make use of snipers to unilaterally remove my opponent's artificer sergeants and it might be the case people are less willing to risk them since the LD bonus they give is actually really important now.


Having units make overwatch attacks with a BS score of 1 was one of the reasons why I lost interest in all modern 40K rulesets. So with a change to proper overwatch like in 2nd 40K GW gained a lost customer back.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Gert wrote:
In general its very enjoyable. The tweaks are good overall, especially the changes to Psychic Powers.
On a more specific note: Iron Warriors go brrrrrrrr


Why? Do they have 3D printers?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/07/03 11:42:03


 
   
Made in gb
Preparing the Invasion of Terra






Hammer of Olympia makes Shrapnel Bolters very fun.
   
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The Dread Evil Lord Varlak





My only gripe is the dreadnought rite of war, which i rekon can become really easily an anoying skew list, other than that i can't complain really.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Strg Alt wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Gert wrote:
In general its very enjoyable. The tweaks are good overall, especially the changes to Psychic Powers.
On a more specific note: Iron Warriors go brrrrrrrr


Why? Do they have 3D printers?

no rotor cannons.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/07/03 12:24:12


https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page
A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units."
Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?"
Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?"
GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!"
Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.  
   
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Barpharanges







 Arbitrator wrote:
 evil_kiwi_60 wrote:
I think it looks good overall but I really wish they had been even with the rites of war for all the legions. It really feels like some of the legions got their rites written by fanboys and others got phoned in. The fact that some get multiple and others get one is bad too.

Almost none of the Traitor Rites give their iconic units Line, but Loyalists get a lot of it thrown around. Does feel like two different teams or individuals had different ideas when writing them.


Yeah it's quite painful. 3rd Company Elite is really solid but it's incredibly annoying you can't just go full Kakophoni - you have to bring standard marines in order to make it work. It's quite frustrating.

The biggest indicator someone is a loser is them complaining about 3d printers or piracy.  
   
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Preparing the Invasion of Terra






The Deathwing rite doesn't work either, as in you have to bring Deathwing but the Deathwing can't even take the objective the rite needs you to take.
Probs gonna be an FAQ soon to fix these.
   
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Decrepit Dakkanaut





Biloxi, MS USA

 Gert wrote:
The Deathwing rite doesn't work either, as in you have to bring Deathwing but the Deathwing can't even take the objective the rite needs you to take.
Probs gonna be an FAQ soon to fix these.


Doesn't need one, you're just mis-reading it.

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Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




As someone who didn't play HH 1.0, but did play 40k 7th and has basically stopped playing 40k 9th (for a multitude of reasons) I came away rather impressed with the ruleset.

Granted I am not seeing all of the minute differences that changes that many of you veterans are, but coming from 9th 40k a lot of this seems like a breath of fresh (albeit familiar) air.
   
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The dark hollows of Kentucky

 ClockworkZion wrote:
 evil_kiwi_60 wrote:
I think it looks good overall but I really wish they had been even with the rites of war for all the legions. It really feels like some of the legions got their rites written by fanboys and others got phoned in. The fact that some get multiple and others get one is bad too.

I can't speak for everyone's but the Night Lords ROW are two of their old ones (sadly not the ones from the Thramas Crusade though).

Yeah, but Terror Assault kicks . Two guaranteed turns of Night Fighting with a 50% chance for a third? And free Fear? Saves points for Preysight. Only one Heavy Support choice though. But for anyone who played the 8th back in the day, that's nothing new. Just gotta make it count. Hmmm....Scorpius squadron or a Leviathan in a drop pod. Decisions, decisions......
   
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Richmond, VA

I'm mostly new to Horus Heresy (before 2.0 dropped, I owned a second hand Word Bearers army I bought a couple years ago, and I have the main Forge World Horus Heresy rulebook, but besides having read it once, never played a game).

I bought the Launch box plus the two army books and a few extras (rhino, weapons, etc). I've been reading the rules and like what I see quite a lot; seems a vast improvement over the "mid era 40k rulesets". I bought several Heresy Word Bearers novels and read them a month ago and became inspired to cover Argel Tal's tragic arc in miniatures form. My Word Bearers army has a bunch of Mk IV plastics, some Mk V resins, Gal Vorbak, Ashen Circle, Mara Ghal, etc - so I'm currently painting those Word Bearers as the Serrated Suns and planning a Salamanders army to utilize the new releases I just bought.

To contribute to OP's question, I couldn't tell you anything about points or whatnot like others in this thread, but I can tell you I'm very excited to put some Serrated Sons Word Bearers on the table. While I'm finishing them up, I'm planning to read some Salamanders Heresy novels and seeing what will inspire me as a theme for that army; as I already have plans to use the Mk III plastics as Isstvan veterans and Mk VI plastics as the new resupplies for the Salamanders (mentioned in a post elsewhere on this subforum).

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On the Internet

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
 ClockworkZion wrote:
 evil_kiwi_60 wrote:
I think it looks good overall but I really wish they had been even with the rites of war for all the legions. It really feels like some of the legions got their rites written by fanboys and others got phoned in. The fact that some get multiple and others get one is bad too.

I can't speak for everyone's but the Night Lords ROW are two of their old ones (sadly not the ones from the Thramas Crusade though).

Yeah, but Terror Assault kicks . Two guaranteed turns of Night Fighting with a 50% chance for a third? And free Fear? Saves points for Preysight. Only one Heavy Support choice though. But for anyone who played the 8th back in the day, that's nothing new. Just gotta make it count. Hmmm....Scorpius squadron or a Leviathan in a drop pod. Decisions, decisions......

It's a bit weaker this edition since units that become troops don't automatically get line so you'll need to take a tactical tax to ensure you can score.
   
Made in ch
The Dread Evil Lord Varlak





 ClockworkZion wrote:
 Gadzilla666 wrote:
 ClockworkZion wrote:
 evil_kiwi_60 wrote:
I think it looks good overall but I really wish they had been even with the rites of war for all the legions. It really feels like some of the legions got their rites written by fanboys and others got phoned in. The fact that some get multiple and others get one is bad too.

I can't speak for everyone's but the Night Lords ROW are two of their old ones (sadly not the ones from the Thramas Crusade though).

Yeah, but Terror Assault kicks . Two guaranteed turns of Night Fighting with a 50% chance for a third? And free Fear? Saves points for Preysight. Only one Heavy Support choice though. But for anyone who played the 8th back in the day, that's nothing new. Just gotta make it count. Hmmm....Scorpius squadron or a Leviathan in a drop pod. Decisions, decisions......

It's a bit weaker this edition since units that become troops don't automatically get line so you'll need to take a tactical tax to ensure you can score.


? i thought all you needed was the correct subtype, afaik even recon squads with nemesis boltrifles can score.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page
A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units."
Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?"
Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?"
GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!"
Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.  
   
Made in gb
Preparing the Invasion of Terra






As long as the unit has Line it can hold objectives. Tactical, Despoiler, Recon, Assault, and Breacher squads all have Line and only Recon squads aren't compulsory Troops.
As much as it can be annoying for specific RoW, I prefer that there is a lot less ObSec out there. Last edition, every unit, and their brother had some form of ObSec and it just meant that in the end, targeting units to deny objectives didn't work.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/07/03 16:26:30


 
   
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Enigmatic Chaos Sorcerer




The dark hollows of Kentucky

 ClockworkZion wrote:
 Gadzilla666 wrote:
 ClockworkZion wrote:
 evil_kiwi_60 wrote:
I think it looks good overall but I really wish they had been even with the rites of war for all the legions. It really feels like some of the legions got their rites written by fanboys and others got phoned in. The fact that some get multiple and others get one is bad too.

I can't speak for everyone's but the Night Lords ROW are two of their old ones (sadly not the ones from the Thramas Crusade though).

Yeah, but Terror Assault kicks . Two guaranteed turns of Night Fighting with a 50% chance for a third? And free Fear? Saves points for Preysight. Only one Heavy Support choice though. But for anyone who played the 8th back in the day, that's nothing new. Just gotta make it count. Hmmm....Scorpius squadron or a Leviathan in a drop pod. Decisions, decisions......

It's a bit weaker this edition since units that become troops don't automatically get line so you'll need to take a tactical tax to ensure you can score.

Not a problem, for me at least. I'll be bringing Recon squads for scoring, and those sniper rifles. We'll need those to pop models with Augury Scanners so they can't mess with our deep strike Assault, and get around the Night Fighting range limits. Squad leaders as well. Killing those is basically an additional -1 to leadership. Take em apart a Piece At a Time.

Nah, the only thing that's bad about it now is that it's the only RoW in Liber Hereticus that completely precludes LoWs. You can't even have them in other detachments. But the improvements to Night Fighting and how much more assured Terror Assault makes it now make up for that. I'll just save the Fellblade for the generic RoWs. I'll spend the points on a Leviathan in a Karybdis instead.
   
Made in us
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 Arbitrator wrote:

Almost none of the Traitor Rites give their iconic units Line, but Loyalists get a lot of it thrown around. Does feel like two different teams or individuals had different ideas when writing them.


The Imperial fists getting oops all deep strike or re-rollable 4+ invulnerable saves are headscratchers too. They barely bothered to put drawbacks in for those either.

Though overall this is only one issue. I'm more excited to play heresy game than use the 9th edition CSM codex.

Iron within, Iron without 
   
 
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