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Made in ca
Librarian with Freaky Familiar






So not trying to steal away from the community discussion but this i wanted to be a bit more narrow in scope.

What do you all think about the spread of power between the various legions that we have available, both in terms of Loyalist vs Traitors, and legions with in each faction.

I definitely feel like a lot of the legion creation was siloed as it feels very different between the loyalist toys and the traitor toys and even within those it feels like a lot were not created equal. Example of this is within the legion specific terminators for Traitors, you have the justarians which are amazing units that get rending 5 axes, -1 s to units that they charge or are charged by for that assault phase, and have breaching 6 bolters for 275 points.

On the other end you get Sehkmet terminators which cost 275 points base, get power weapons that they can with a 16.7% chance to fail grant them selves a cult power that results in a peril, and with a 16.7% chance to fail but not peril to force their weapons to give +2 str on either a power axe, sword or maul, and come with basic combi bolters, and in order to cast a power they need to pay 25 points more, and do NOT get access to their legions specials ammo.

It definitely feels like not all legions were created equal, which legions/units do you think are winning out, and which ones are falling behind and what could be done to fix them?

To many unpainted models to count. 
   
Made in us
Mekboy Hammerin' Somethin'





Sedona, Arizona

Loyalists seem to have come out head (and quite possibly shoulders) above traitors in terms of legion-rules and unique units. Though there are winners and losers on both sides.

Balance decisions feel... Very strange. The sort of legion psuedo-ability which one (or two) unique units come stock with, and you can then pay a premium to upgrade your IC's with (so they can join those units) varies wildly. Emperor's Children & Word Bearer's ones are good but expensive, Death Guard Night Lords are inexpensive and situationally useless or very strong , World Eaters is expensive and makes your guy significantly easier to kill (but they get +1 attack, woo-hoo!), and Iron Warriors straight up do not have one.

Legion specific weapons also seem to vary widely. Sons of Horus, Emperor's Children, and Night Lords get highly potent melee weapons, Iron Warriors get more expensive but (overall) tactically useful bolters, T-sons get okay (but not) great stuff, World Eaters get a confused mish-mash of fairly useless ideas.

Sons of Horus and Emperor's Children seem like the premier traitor legions from rules & units perspective. To my eyes it looks like Night Lords, Death Guard, and especially World Eaters got the short end of the stick. Though NL and DG certainly seem to have some strong stuff at their disposal (night fighting for upto 3 turns will ruin some armies day) to make up for being kind of forgotten. When it comes to WE though, I'm honestly not sure wtf they're supposed to do. Mass a bunch of assault marines & rampagers with jump packs, pray for a turn 2 deep strike, and just hope everything goes well from there?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/07/06 06:37:12


   
Made in ch
The Dread Evil Lord Varlak





Bit annoyed at the varying RoW's.

AL has one for headhunters, which i assume "should" be a better version of the normal RoW that turns seekers(? the FA better bolters dudes) into troops and frontline. sadly due to some restrictions the AL one is worse.

otoh there is the NL one that can guarantee you 2 turns of nightfighting and an 3rd on 50/50. ontop of turning certain elites into troops if i remember correctly.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/07/06 08:52:05


https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page
A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units."
Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?"
Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?"
GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!"
Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.  
   
Made in gb
Barpharanges







Not Online!!! wrote:
Bit annoyed at the varying RoW's.

AL has one for headhunters, which i assume "should" be a better version of the normal RoW that turns seekers(? the FA better bolters dudes) into troops and frontline. sadly due to some restrictions the AL one is worse.


The AL RoW are a bit awkward to say the least.

The Headhunter One isn't atrocious imo and is quite fun - but Coils of the Hydra? Legitimately, it's deciding to play the game on hard mode.

The biggest indicator someone is a loser is them complaining about 3d printers or piracy.  
   
Made in es
Inspiring SDF-1 Bridge Officer






I can't really say, because mostly I stopped playing 40k a long time ago, but what I've seen about the Iron Warriors seem a bit... sparse, when compared with other legions, particularly if you plan to play loyal (no Pertie, of course, but also no Iron Circle).

What's the current feeling about them, are they any good, or at least decent enough so as not to shoot myself in the feet?

Also, I'm planning a double TL HB contemptor, because it sounds like fun as a trench cleaner.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/07/06 10:46:02


 
   
Made in ch
The Dread Evil Lord Varlak





 blood reaper wrote:
Not Online!!! wrote:
Bit annoyed at the varying RoW's.

AL has one for headhunters, which i assume "should" be a better version of the normal RoW that turns seekers(? the FA better bolters dudes) into troops and frontline. sadly due to some restrictions the AL one is worse.


The AL RoW are a bit awkward to say the least.

The Headhunter One isn't atrocious imo and is quite fun - but Coils of the Hydra? Legitimately, it's deciding to play the game on hard mode.


Again, though, in its restrictions its more akward than the baseline RoW which it is based on, which IS kinda hillarious.

Otoh, the special issue bolters for AL aren't half bad, the fact that headhunters can bully HQ with multimeltas and Heavy bolters is put bluntly pretty awesome compared to the normal seekers. But how many headhunters does one need and is the stronger inconvenience truly deserved?

Ehh

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page
A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units."
Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?"
Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?"
GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!"
Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.  
   
Made in si
Foxy Wildborne







Funnily the "tier lists" on Youtube seem to be very different than Dakka's, and to each other. Almost as if everybody was just guessing

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/07/06 09:57:15


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Made in ch
The Dread Evil Lord Varlak





 Albertorius wrote:
I can't really say, because mostly I stopped playing 40k a long time ago, but what I've seen about the Iron Warriors seem a bit... sparse, when compared with other legions, particularly if you plan to play loyal (no Pertie, of course, but also no Iron Circle).

What's the current feeling about them, are they any good, or at least decent enough so as not to shoot myself in the feet?

Also, I'm planning a double TL HB contemptor, because it sounds like fun as a trench cleaner.


If you like Tacticals with shrappnell bolters, their RoW is pretty nice since you can still move and get the additional shot. Granted you need a warsmith praetor to access it.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page
A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units."
Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?"
Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?"
GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!"
Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.  
   
Made in de
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Albertorius wrote:
I can't really say, because mostly I stopped playing 40k a long time ago, but what I've seen about the Iron Warriors seem a bit... sparse, when compared with other legions, particularly if you plan to play loyal (no Pertie, of course, but also no Iron Circle).

What's the current feeling about them, are they any good, or at least decent enough so as not to shoot myself in the feet?

Also, I'm planning a double TL HB contemptor, because it sounds like fun as a trench cleaner.


Wait for the Cults/Militia book to drop. Put militia units in trenches. Equip contemptor with two flamer weapons. Do trench cleaning with following barbecue.
   
Made in ca
Librarian with Freaky Familiar






 Strg Alt wrote:
 Albertorius wrote:
I can't really say, because mostly I stopped playing 40k a long time ago, but what I've seen about the Iron Warriors seem a bit... sparse, when compared with other legions, particularly if you plan to play loyal (no Pertie, of course, but also no Iron Circle).

What's the current feeling about them, are they any good, or at least decent enough so as not to shoot myself in the feet?

Also, I'm planning a double TL HB contemptor, because it sounds like fun as a trench cleaner.


Wait for the Cults/Militia book to drop. Put militia units in trenches. Equip contemptor with two flamer weapons. Do trench cleaning with following barbecue.


The funny thing is i have a suspicion that guard are actually going to be REALLY strong in 30k.

To many unpainted models to count. 
   
Made in ch
The Dread Evil Lord Varlak





Cults/ militia is not guard, that 'd be the imperial auxilia.


https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page
A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units."
Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?"
Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?"
GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!"
Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.  
   
Made in ca
Librarian with Freaky Familiar






Not Online!!! wrote:
Cults/ militia is not guard, that 'd be the imperial auxilia.



Alright fair enough, either way I expect the Imperial ARMY, to be quite strong come their launch because i think they are going to be launching the Imperial army libra with the launch of Imperial guard for 40k to try and double tap.

To many unpainted models to count. 
   
Made in ca
Commander of the Mysterious 2nd Legion





 Backspacehacker wrote:
Not Online!!! wrote:
Cults/ militia is not guard, that 'd be the imperial auxilia.



Alright fair enough, either way I expect the Imperial ARMY, to be quite strong come their launch because i think they are going to be launching the Imperial army libra with the launch of Imperial guard for 40k to try and double tap.



aren't they fairly differant though?

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in ca
Librarian with Freaky Familiar






BrianDavion wrote:
 Backspacehacker wrote:
Not Online!!! wrote:
Cults/ militia is not guard, that 'd be the imperial auxilia.



Alright fair enough, either way I expect the Imperial ARMY, to be quite strong come their launch because i think they are going to be launching the Imperial army libra with the launch of Imperial guard for 40k to try and double tap.



aren't they fairly differant though?


No not really in terms of how they play. Both relied on massed volume of fire and templates to be good. The only real difference in play style between 40k and HH was in HH you just got a LOT more tools and toys on the field. Like 40k a guard squad size is 10 man. In HH a las section is 20 guys for like 100 points.

To many unpainted models to count. 
   
Made in gb
Preparing the Invasion of Terra






 Backspacehacker wrote:
Alright fair enough, either way I expect the Imperial ARMY, to be quite strong come their launch because i think they are going to be launching the Imperial army libra with the launch of Imperial guard for 40k to try and double tap.

Why? Considering the Imperial Army faction from the Allies Matrix refers to Solar Auxilia which won't be getting the plastic treatment any time soon and C&M which is confirmed to be a PDF army, what gives you the idea that either of these armies will be particularly powerful because Guard in 40k got a new Codex?
   
Made in ca
Librarian with Freaky Familiar






 Gert wrote:
 Backspacehacker wrote:
Alright fair enough, either way I expect the Imperial ARMY, to be quite strong come their launch because i think they are going to be launching the Imperial army libra with the launch of Imperial guard for 40k to try and double tap.

Why? Considering the Imperial Army faction from the Allies Matrix refers to Solar Auxilia which won't be getting the plastic treatment any time soon and C&M which is confirmed to be a PDF army, what gives you the idea that either of these armies will be particularly powerful because Guard in 40k got a new Codex?


As a way to push more models to both 40k and 30k players that play one or the other exclusively.
Not saying its a grantee, but its something thats within GWs wheel house to pull.

To many unpainted models to count. 
   
Made in gb
Preparing the Invasion of Terra






 Backspacehacker wrote:
As a way to push more models to both 40k and 30k players that play one or the other exclusively.
Not saying its a grantee, but its something thats within GWs wheel house to pull.

I actually don't have words to describe how dumb this is.
   
Made in ca
Librarian with Freaky Familiar






 Gert wrote:
 Backspacehacker wrote:
As a way to push more models to both 40k and 30k players that play one or the other exclusively.
Not saying its a grantee, but its something thats within GWs wheel house to pull.

I actually don't have words to describe how dumb this is.


Im not sure why you think its dumb?

Gw puts out new guard model.
GW Drops new guard model and dex the same time that GW puts out the Imperial Libra that has the rules for Cults and milita and solar aux
GW can then sell to people who want to make guard armies, and appeal to people who want to make cult and milita armies.

Thats my entire point on that, that does not seem like an unreasonable thing to do to sell as many models as you can, appeal to both players.

To many unpainted models to count. 
   
Made in gb
Preparing the Invasion of Terra






Liber Imperialis isn't going to have C&M and Solar Auxilia don't use Guard models outside of Russes and Shadowswords.
   
Made in ca
Librarian with Freaky Familiar






Oh i did not see where you said C&M are going to be in a PDF. If thats the case then, yeah i dont see it mattering then.

To many unpainted models to count. 
   
Made in es
Inspiring SDF-1 Bridge Officer






Not Online!!! wrote:
 Albertorius wrote:
I can't really say, because mostly I stopped playing 40k a long time ago, but what I've seen about the Iron Warriors seem a bit... sparse, when compared with other legions, particularly if you plan to play loyal (no Pertie, of course, but also no Iron Circle).

What's the current feeling about them, are they any good, or at least decent enough so as not to shoot myself in the feet?

Also, I'm planning a double TL HB contemptor, because it sounds like fun as a trench cleaner.


If you like Tacticals with shrappnell bolters, their RoW is pretty nice since you can still move and get the additional shot. Granted you need a warsmith praetor to access it.


Well, they look interesting at least, what with Shred and Pinning, but I have yet to try them. A full unit with shrapnel bolters and chain bayonets should at least be useable in the trenches.

Strg Alt wrote:Wait for the Cults/Militia book to drop. Put militia units in trenches. Equip contemptor with two flamer weapons. Do trench cleaning with following barbecue.


Dunno about militia, per se, but auxilia has a long tradition of being cannon fodder allies of the IWs.
   
Made in gb
Preparing the Invasion of Terra






Shrapnel Bolters are fun.
   
Made in ch
The Dread Evil Lord Varlak





 Albertorius wrote:
Not Online!!! wrote:
 Albertorius wrote:
I can't really say, because mostly I stopped playing 40k a long time ago, but what I've seen about the Iron Warriors seem a bit... sparse, when compared with other legions, particularly if you plan to play loyal (no Pertie, of course, but also no Iron Circle).

What's the current feeling about them, are they any good, or at least decent enough so as not to shoot myself in the feet?

Also, I'm planning a double TL HB contemptor, because it sounds like fun as a trench cleaner.


If you like Tacticals with shrappnell bolters, their RoW is pretty nice since you can still move and get the additional shot. Granted you need a warsmith praetor to access it.


Well, they look interesting at least, what with Shred and Pinning, but I have yet to try them. A full unit with shrapnel bolters and chain bayonets should at least be useable in the trenches.

Strg Alt wrote:Wait for the Cults/Militia book to drop. Put militia units in trenches. Equip contemptor with two flamer weapons. Do trench cleaning with following barbecue.


Dunno about militia, per se, but auxilia has a long tradition of being cannon fodder allies of the IWs.


it certainly leads to an very infantry heavy force and the normal tacs can be plenty mean on their own, especially if you find the points to add in an apothecary.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page
A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units."
Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?"
Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?"
GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!"
Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.  
   
Made in es
Inspiring SDF-1 Bridge Officer






Apothecaries are kind of a must, IMHO, for the look, and I'd prefer it to be kind of infantry heavy.

I also like the idea of using cheap(ish) cannon fodder, and I have a ton of painted guard, so...

Plus there's never a bad excuse to add to the ranks ^^


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Gert wrote:
Shrapnel Bolters are fun.


They do look like fun, that's for certain.

A trencher dred with 10 TLed shots with Shred and Pinning certainly looks like something, too.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/07/07 13:37:01


 
   
Made in at
Boom! Leman Russ Commander





 lord_blackfang wrote:
Funnily the "tier lists" on Youtube seem to be very different than Dakka's, and to each other. Almost as if everybody was just guessing

Did any of the people making those tier lists ever play 30k though? At least in the last six years.
   
Made in ch
The Dread Evil Lord Varlak





However have you heard of your Lord and saviour the 10 man rotorcannon squad?

Or volkite calverin?

Basically the discount version of an a-10 in foot.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page
A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units."
Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?"
Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?"
GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!"
Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.  
   
Made in si
Foxy Wildborne







 Arbitrator wrote:
 lord_blackfang wrote:
Funnily the "tier lists" on Youtube seem to be very different than Dakka's, and to each other. Almost as if everybody was just guessing

Did any of the people making those tier lists ever play 30k though? At least in the last six years.


I certainly doubt anyone has played all 18 legions under 1 month old rules.

Posters on ignore list: 36

40k Potica Edition - 40k patch with reactions, suppression and all that good stuff. Feedback thread here.

Gangs of Nu Ork - Necromunda / Gorkamorka expansion supporting all faction. Feedback thread here
   
Made in ca
Librarian with Freaky Familiar






 lord_blackfang wrote:
 Arbitrator wrote:
 lord_blackfang wrote:
Funnily the "tier lists" on Youtube seem to be very different than Dakka's, and to each other. Almost as if everybody was just guessing

Did any of the people making those tier lists ever play 30k though? At least in the last six years.


I certainly doubt anyone has played all 18 legions under 1 month old rules.


Oh its worse they put out the tier list before the game was even out, they were operating off of leaks, and they were like horribly wrong.

To many unpainted models to count. 
   
Made in us
Veteran Knight Baron in a Crusader





We will have to wait and see after some events are held with the new rules. Iron Warriors seem pretty strong to me with Perty being cheaper than a lot of the other useful primarchs but still a beatstick, his ability to take Domitar bodyguards and their stacking buff to invuln saves. +1 Strength against vehicles and dreads is really good.

Unit wise, I think javelins and dreads will be popular. 3 of each with 2 tac squads and a primarch will probably be the core for a power gaming list.
   
Made in ca
Librarian with Freaky Familiar






Toofast wrote:
We will have to wait and see after some events are held with the new rules. Iron Warriors seem pretty strong to me with Perty being cheaper than a lot of the other useful primarchs but still a beatstick, his ability to take Domitar bodyguards and their stacking buff to invuln saves. +1 Strength against vehicles and dreads is really good.

Unit wise, I think javelins and dreads will be popular. 3 of each with 2 tac squads and a primarch will probably be the core for a power gaming list.


He can also take his sweet shagin wagon as well, granted thats another 900 points so, factor that into the mix and figure out how big of a game you have to play to take that at 25%

To many unpainted models to count. 
   
 
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