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Made in es
Been Around the Block






So, there are some new nasty rumours coming out that talk about the new rules that demons will get.

There you go, first big wave of rumours of the new codex

 xttz wrote:

Here's the source, a 30min video from Warphammer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=K_Oy-Mpg6vY

And this is a summary from Discord:

Spoiler:
Greater daemons 1 per detachment, 18+ Wounds
Smaller unit sizes (typically 10 on troops, 6 on elites)
Auras are command phase stuff
DS almost army wide
Instead of invulns armour that is unaffected by AP (why?) and different in melee vs range
Horrors split on a 5+ for free
Treason of Tzench is no auras for you, infernal gateway buffed (flat 3 on mega cast, and aura from target unit not model)
Bloodletters strong (A2 S5 ap-3 2D)
Khorne rendmaster
Bloodthirster, D3+3 damage big swing
Lots of +1 T for khorne Crushers 5 W
Plauge bearers T5 2W
DG version of DR
Nurglinings not troop
Nurgle better at wounding things
Beasts tanky
Slaanesh all round small improvements


Also: the same source comments that souping options have been added to the newest playtests


Codex oficially announced!


More rumours
Spoiler:
 TonyH122 wrote:
A few more rumours are turning up on Discord, via reddit, all of which apparently come from the guy whose Tyranid leaks were on point:

General:
-Further confirmation of daemonic saves, including two profiles for range/melee
-GUO has 4+/5+ against range/melee.
-LoC has 3+/5+ against range/melee.
-Icons: Give the ICON keyword, which is somehow relevant to the new Warp Storm table.
-Instruments appear to give morale re-rolls.

GUO Details
-GUO has 4+/5+ against range/melee.
-T8, 22W
-GUO still has 5+++
-Vomit attack: 7", d6 auto-hits, S5, AP-2, D1.
-Bilesword has: Cleave at +1S, AP-3, Dd6, 6s to hit auto-wound; Sweep at SU, AP-3, 1D, double attacks.
-Bileblade: SU, AP-3, D2, re-roll wounds, and 'improves casting'
-Flail: 7", d3+3A, SU, AP-3, D2.
-Nurgling attacks in addition
-Bell has a resurrection-style resurrection action for Plaguebearers
-Gives Nurgle CORE re-rolls

Khorne
-'most improved'
-Most have 4+/4+ or 4+/5+ against range/melee.

Tzeentch
-3+ against ranged for most, but not all units.
-Always has a worse save against melee.


Conflicted
-Apparently another user states that Pink Horrors, Plaguebearers, and Bloodletters are all 10pts each.
-People are generally doubtful of this, at least if the other rumours of their buffs are true.


About deepstrike
Spoiler:
Garrac wrote:
Copypasted from the Discord server, by Trout:



" Happy Monday ya filthy heretics. A few keen eyed individuals (most everyone) had noticed the "Warp Locus" keyword on certain CSM units (Maater of Posession, Khorne Lord of Skulls). Well I'm here to tell you at least part of what it does. As you may have heard, you will be able to deepstrike Daemons for free--but that's not all! When in the Warp these daemons gain special deepstrike rules.



They can deepstrike as normal, or if you set them up wholly within 6" of a Warp Locus unit, they can be set up just outside 6" from enemy units! (Instead of 9"). If you have allegiances you gotta stick with your friends. Warp Locus isn't a particularly common keyword, but an important lynchpin to enable brutal strategies.



No longer are you shelling out 2 or 3 cp to get a virtually gaurenteed charge with Bloodletters. I mean you will still be able to enhance charges in other ways, but now the floor is much higher. Looking to counter or stop your enemy from dropping hell on your doorstep? You'll want to remove enemy Warp Locus models as efficiently as you can. But that certainly won't be simple in most cases. The cool news is that deepstriking via the Warp has some other interesting rules if you're pure Daemons that make it even more appealing; those fighting daemons should generally stay out of daemonic territory, and keep a good sense of leadership.



That's it for that. A good mechanic to keep in mind as you read any upcoming information. I think it offers some good counter play, while also enabling some of the most reliable charges in the game. [PSA: As always understand things can change before release. So salt it a bit. "


Skarbrand
Spoiler:
 TonyH122 wrote:
Some Skarbrand news!! c/p from the Discord:

"Time for the angriest of Daemons - Skarbrand!
As is appropriate for Skarbrand, his damage output has gone from "middling" to "through the roof". His bellow has quite literally doubled in potency, and at top profile you get the choice between 9 attacks at S16 ap-4 D3+3 damage ignoring invulns or a whopping 18 at s8 ap-2 d2. His "rage embodied" also remains the same as ever, though the range has shortened a tad to only 6".
The beast is no slouch durability wise either - with 20 wounds, t8, and a 4+ save in both melee and shooting, he's far from easy to take down, but if you're still worried just feel free to deep strike him - everyone in daemons can do that, remember?
Oh yeah one other thing - he's a Warp Locus."


Soup options
Spoiler:


Profiles of Slaanesh units
Spoiler:
 Sersi wrote:
Garrac wrote:
Waiting for friday bcs it looks like this was a Chariot week spetial

Gonna update later with daemonettes profile


The Daemonette Profile leaked. Pretty much all the Slaanesh units except HQ's and Fiends.


SLAANESH:

Command Phase: Fights First, Fights Last, Fight on Death abilities.
Daemonettes: improved offense near characaters: full re-rolls, and auto-wounding on 6.
Chariots: T6
Epitome: no longer prevents fallback, its a primarily a spell caster
Masque: no longer utility, really interest buffs and debuffs.



DAEMONETTES: [10-20 models]

M7", WS3, BS3, S4, T3, W1, A4, LD8, SV4/5
Claws:4X Attacks, Melee S:user(4)/AP-2/Dam 1

Gained +1S [base 4], wounding MEQ on 4+ instead of 5+.
Gained +2A [base 4].
Gained +1M [base 7"].
Gained +1AP [no rending rule like genestealers, but they have ways of increasing AP with stragems and Heralds].
1X buffed up bomb unit and a few smaller units.

4X S4/AP-2/Dam 1 attacks for 8-9 PPM is pretty scary with a 4+ ranged daemon save, innate deep strike, and herald buffs.
CSM Legionaries with the MOK have 4X at S5/AP-2/D1 attacks melee for more than twice the supposed points costs of the new Daemonettes.


SEEKERS:

M14", WS3, BS3, S4, T6, W7, A4, LD8, SV4/5
Claws:4X Attacks, Melee S:user(4)/AP-2/Dam 1
Seeker:2X Attacks, Melee S:user(4)/AP-/Dam 1

Gained +1S [base 4], wounding MEQ on 4+ instead of 5+.
Gained +2A [base 4].
Gained +1M [base 7"].
Gained +1AP [no native rend, but they have ways of increasing AP with stragems and Heralds].
1X buffed up bomb unit and a few smaller units.


SEEKER CHARIOT: [cheap]

M14", WS3, BS3, S4, T6, W7, A10, LD8, SV4/4
Claws:10X Attacks, Melee S:user(4)/AP-2/Dam 1
Seeker:4X Attacks, Melee S:user(4)/AP-/Dam 1
Does MW on the charge, averages 1-2 MW.
Whips: 4X shots with old profile.

Can be taken as a Herald mount.
LOS, and the claws go to 8X S:user(4)/AP-2/Dam 2.
Warlord Traits, Relics, Buffs to Daemonettes, and Core units.


HELLFLAYER: 80 pts

M14", WS3, BS3, S4, T6, W7, A8, LD8, SV4/4
Claws:8X Attacks, Melee S:user(4)/AP-2/Dam 1
Seeker:4X Attacks, Melee S:user(4)/AP-/Dam 1
Axel: 4X Attacks, Melee S6/AP-2/Dam 2/Auto-hits on charge
Double on the charge: 8 attacks
Gained -1 to hit.

Can be taken as a Herald mount.
LOS, and the claws go to 8X S:user(4)/AP-2/Dam 2.
Warlord Traits, Relics, Buffs to Daemonettes, and Core units.


EXALTED SEEKER CHARIOT:

M14", WS3, BS3, S4, T6, W12, A16, LD8, SV4/4
Claws:10X Attacks, Melee S:user(4)/AP-2/Dam 1
Seeker:4X Attacks, Melee S:user(4)/AP-/Dam 1
Gained -1 to hit.

Can be taken as a Herald mount.
LOS, and the claws go to 8X S:user(4)/AP-2/Dam 2.
Warlord Traits, Relics, Buffs to Daemonettes, and Core units.





Have some fun!

This message was edited 8 times. Last update was at 2022/07/29 08:43:27


 
   
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London

Which are?
   
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"Here's a rumour thread with no rumours". Good job!

Here's the source, a 30min video from Warphammer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=K_Oy-Mpg6vY

And this is a summary from Discord:

Greater daemons 1 per detachment, 18+ Wounds
Smaller unit sizes (typically 10 on troops, 6 on elites)
Auras are command phase stuff
DS almost army wide
Instead of invulns armour that is unaffected by AP (why?) and different in melee vs range
Horrors split on a 5+ for free
Treason of Tzench is no auras for you, infernal gateway buffed (flat 3 on mega cast, and aura from target unit not model)
Bloodletters strong (A2 S5 ap-3 2D)
Khorne rendmaster
Bloodthirster, D3+3 damage big swing
Lots of +1 T for khorne Crushers 5 W
Plauge bearers T5 2W
DG version of DR
Nurglinings not troop
Nurgle better at wounding things
Beasts tanky
Slaanesh all round small improvements
   
Made in es
Been Around the Block




 The Phazer wrote:
Which are?


Supposedly these ones (in spanish though)

Spoiler:
Waiting for confirmation of the source, or at least a leaker on reddit, to add it to the thread


Oh, thanks xttz! Adding it then

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/07/07 11:17:15


 
   
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Tough Tyrant Guard





London

Thank you. Guess more disgruntled playtesters?
   
Made in es
Been Around the Block




 The Phazer wrote:
Thank you. Guess more disgruntled playtesters?


Yep, Wallace in the comments alludes to this rules coming from the first round of playtests

Btw, he also says that the soup options weren't being tested back then, but that he has heard since then they've been added now

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/07/07 11:35:18


 
   
Made in us
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The Great State of New Jersey

How is an armor save that ignores AP modifiers different from an invul save? Not sure I understand that design chhoice.

CoALabaer wrote:
Wargamers hate two things: the state of the game and change.
 
   
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chaos0xomega wrote:
How is an armor save that ignores AP modifiers different from an invul save? Not sure I understand that design chhoice.


For most units it would mean being able to receive cover bonuses to that save.

There's also the benefit of not automatically losing a pivotal greater daemon to things like Hammerheads.
   
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Gathering the Informations.

 xttz wrote:
chaos0xomega wrote:
How is an armor save that ignores AP modifiers different from an invul save? Not sure I understand that design chhoice.


For most units it would mean being able to receive cover bonuses to that save.

There's also the benefit of not automatically losing a pivotal greater daemon to things like Hammerheads.

Caveat is that it might be intended to be done similarly to the Nighthaunt, which ignored positive and negative modifiers.
   
Made in fi
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chaos0xomega wrote:
How is an armor save that ignores AP modifiers different from an invul save? Not sure I understand that design chhoice.


Those would ignore ignore inv save weapons.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/07/07 12:29:46


2022 painted/bought: 587/638 
   
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Rumor sounds like Daemons returning to their pre-6th edition status of a more elite army rather than the horde they've become since then. Which is not necessarily bad.

And I guess their save against range will be better than against melee, right?
   
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The point is, you've got +1 in cover.

It is generally better to have protection against ranged than against melee, but it depends of which team you're facing and how is the terrain

I understand they're trying to protect the biggest daemons from hammerstrikes. I've been playing CK those last weeks and it is so bad.

You can build a 24W T8 3+ 4++ antireroll 5+++ toy and dying fast anyways. As you can only bring 1 greater demon, they will probably want him to be cool in matches.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/07/07 12:38:41


Orks 5000p 
   
Made in fi
5th God of Chaos (O'rly?)





Kebabcito wrote:
The point is, you've got +1 in cover.


Maybe. We haven't seen rule. It could be worded save ignores modifiers. Then no cover.

Would be even logical. Just because target is daemon why tree suddenly stops lascannon better?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/07/07 12:38:13


2022 painted/bought: 587/638 
   
Made in us
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tneva82 wrote:
Just because target is daemon why tree suddenly stops lascannon better?
More coherent than GW's design philosophy for Chaos! Ba-dum-sad :(

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/07/07 13:18:33


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Barpharanges







>Plaugebearers T5 2W

Actually sounds pretty fantastic imo.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Sgt. Cortez wrote:
Rumor sounds like Daemons returning to their pre-6th edition status of a more elite army rather than the horde they've become since then. Which is not necessarily bad.

And I guess their save against range will be better than against melee, right?


God I would love that.

I hated the horde-ification of Daemons. Legitimately one of the worst choices GW has ever made.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/07/07 13:30:27


The biggest indicator someone is a loser is them complaining about 3d printers or piracy.  
   
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Bloodletters strong (A2 S5 ap-3 2D)

Is this actually strong? I mean I know we don't know what heroes/army abilities/stratagems they have but that doesn't seem like a super great profile.

I'm on a podcast about (video) game design:
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 Rihgu wrote:
Bloodletters strong (A2 S5 ap-3 2D)

Is this actually strong? I mean I know we don't know what heroes/army abilities/stratagems they have but that doesn't seem like a super great profile.


Depends if they're rolling the charge bonus ( +1S +1A ) in or not. The sword is an upgrade, which is currently only D2 some of the time.

It isn't particularly strong, but when you figure it's a basic troop then it gives a little more perspective. If they pick up +1T it might be nice.

I do wonder if the new non-invulnerable saves will be incapable of getting shut down by death hex.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/07/07 14:00:23


   
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 Rihgu wrote:
Bloodletters strong (A2 S5 ap-3 2D)

Is this actually strong? I mean I know we don't know what heroes/army abilities/stratagems they have but that doesn't seem like a super great profile.


Presumably they get +1 attack on the charge as part of the standard Khorne rules. Then there will inevitably be some combination of extra bonuses available such as +1 to hit, extra strength, exploding hits, and so on. Greater daemons will buff them, character WLTs will buff them, icons and army special rules will buff them.

I wouldn't be surprised if they end up with more combat power than Bladeguard for way less points.
   
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As an aside, have Dexcesssa and Synessa been shoe horned into 40K yet, like Belakor was?

I just bought a Synessa for my new Hedonite army and if there is crossover, that'd be cool if I ever decide to get back into 40K in some capacity.

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chaos0xomega wrote:
How is an armor save that ignores AP modifiers different from an invul save? Not sure I understand that design chhoice.


That means it can't be bypassed by effects that ignore Invuln saves.
Yes, we're already at that stage of 40k

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Germany

 xttz wrote:

Instead of invulns armour that is unaffected by AP (why?) and different in melee vs range


This is 100% GW. First they make high AP guns which cant be saved on normal saves. Then they introduce a save which ignores AP. Then they introduce guns which ignore inv. And now they will introduce a save which cant be ignored.
   
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Tangentville, New Jersey

Sgt. Cortez wrote:
Rumor sounds like Daemons returning to their pre-6th edition status of a more elite army rather than the horde they've become since then. Which is not necessarily bad.

This might get me to play 40K again. I hate hate hate the mindset of "they suck now, but they cost less points so you can field MORE of them!" That pushed me out of the last edition of Fantasy before the End Times implosion. I liked when 15 Plaguebearers meant something.

I hate that the fluff for a Bloodcrusher states they can shrug off small arms fire only to lose three per round in-game to scouts with bolt pistols!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/07/07 15:15:27



 
   
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 nels1031 wrote:
As an aside, have Dexcesssa and Synessa been shoe horned into 40K yet, like Belakor was?

I just bought a Synessa for my new Hedonite army and if there is crossover, that'd be cool if I ever decide to get back into 40K in some capacity.


I hope so, I'd like to see both of them.

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The Great State of New Jersey

Honestly, as someone who owns something like 80 Bloodletters, 140 Daemonettes, 90 Horrors, 100 Plaguebearers, 60 Seekers, 27 Screamers, 36 Flamers, 60 Nurgling bases, etc. etc. etc. I'm perfectly okay with Daemons remaining a horde army.

CoALabaer wrote:
Wargamers hate two things: the state of the game and change.
 
   
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Fixture of Dakka







 nels1031 wrote:
As an aside, have Dexcesssa and Synessa been shoe horned into 40K yet, like Belakor was?

I just bought a Synessa for my new Hedonite army and if there is crossover, that'd be cool if I ever decide to get back into 40K in some capacity.

Not to date, and I'd like to seem them keep some elements different between AoS and 40k in terms of the roster - which would include having some 40k-specific units/characters too.

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 Kanluwen wrote:
This is, emphatically, why I will continue suggesting nuking Guard and starting over again. It's a legacy army that needs to be rebooted with a new focal point.

Confirmation of why no-one should listen to Kanluwen when it comes to the IG - he doesn't want the IG, he want's Kan's New Model Army... 
   
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 Dysartes wrote:
 nels1031 wrote:
As an aside, have Dexcesssa and Synessa been shoe horned into 40K yet, like Belakor was?

I just bought a Synessa for my new Hedonite army and if there is crossover, that'd be cool if I ever decide to get back into 40K in some capacity.

Not to date, and I'd like to seem them keep some elements different between AoS and 40k in terms of the roster - which would include having some 40k-specific units/characters too.


That would be pretty much the entire mortals portion of the range. I think any Daemon should be fairgame between the two.

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 p5freak wrote:
 xttz wrote:

Instead of invulns armour that is unaffected by AP (why?) and different in melee vs range


This is 100% GW. First they make high AP guns which cant be saved on normal saves. Then they introduce a save which ignores AP. Then they introduce guns which ignore inv. And now they will introduce a save which cant be ignored.


I'm not convinced that's the idea. Abilities to ignore invulns are still relatively rare, and generally available to units in specific roles such as hammerheads or anti-elite melee characters. Typically units you don't see sweeping through battleline daemons like horrors or plaguebearers. It's not a strong justification for an army wide rule like this.

I just noticed that summary is missing a detail from the video: daemons have split saves for different attacks that also differ for each god. For example Tzeentch is 3+ against ranged attacks but 5+ in melee.
Someone also noted above that AOS Nighthaunt have a rule that ignores both positive and negative modifiers to their saves, meaning daemons may not benefit from cover as well as ignoring normal weapon behaviour.

This would all add up to daemons behaving in a unique and unnatural way compared to other factions, which I think is the main intent.

   
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Didn't this same batch show up a month ago?
   
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I wasn't expecting two wound Plaguebearers. What they really need is ap on their sword.

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 nels1031 wrote:
As an aside, have Dexcesssa and Synessa been shoe horned into 40K yet, like Belakor was?

I just bought a Synessa for my new Hedonite army and if there is crossover, that'd be cool if I ever decide to get back into 40K in some capacity.
Not yet, though the difference being that Be'Lakor was always in 40k and just needed an excuse for an updated profile while Dex & Syn are new characters with potency high enough to justify more than a 'this dude is a thing now' in a new codex. Will probably just be that though.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 ArcaneHorror wrote:
I wasn't expecting two wound Plaguebearers. What they really need is ap on their sword.
They went to 2W in AoS recently, so I'm expecting it in 40k. Also makes the DG version of disgustingly resilient work, though still the exact fething opposite of it's fluff.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/07/07 19:30:34


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