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Greater daemons 1 per detachment, 18+ Wounds
Smaller unit sizes (typically 10 on troops, 6 on elites)
Auras are command phase stuff
DS almost army wide
Instead of invulns armour that is unaffected by AP (why?) and different in melee vs range
Horrors split on a 5+ for free
Treason of Tzench is no auras for you, infernal gateway buffed (flat 3 on mega cast, and aura from target unit not model)
Bloodletters strong (A2 S5 ap-3 2D)
Khorne rendmaster
Bloodthirster, D3+3 damage big swing
Lots of +1 T for khorne Crushers 5 W
Plauge bearers T5 2W
DG version of DR
Nurglinings not troop
Nurgle better at wounding things
Beasts tanky
Slaanesh all round small improvements
Also: the same source comments that souping options have been added to the newest playtests
TonyH122 wrote: A few more rumours are turning up on Discord, via reddit, all of which apparently come from the guy whose Tyranid leaks were on point:
General:
-Further confirmation of daemonic saves, including two profiles for range/melee
-GUO has 4+/5+ against range/melee.
-LoC has 3+/5+ against range/melee.
-Icons: Give the ICON keyword, which is somehow relevant to the new Warp Storm table.
-Instruments appear to give morale re-rolls.
GUO Details -GUO has 4+/5+ against range/melee.
-T8, 22W
-GUO still has 5+++ -Vomit attack: 7", d6 auto-hits, S5, AP-2, D1.
-Bilesword has: Cleave at +1S, AP-3, Dd6, 6s to hit auto-wound; Sweep at SU, AP-3, 1D, double attacks.
-Bileblade: SU, AP-3, D2, re-roll wounds, and 'improves casting'
-Flail: 7", d3+3A, SU, AP-3, D2.
-Nurgling attacks in addition
-Bell has a resurrection-style resurrection action for Plaguebearers
-Gives Nurgle CORE re-rolls
Khorne -'most improved'
-Most have 4+/4+ or 4+/5+ against range/melee.
Tzeentch -3+ against ranged for most, but not all units.
-Always has a worse save against melee.
Conflicted -Apparently another user states that Pink Horrors, Plaguebearers, and Bloodletters are all 10pts each.
-People are generally doubtful of this, at least if the other rumours of their buffs are true.
About deepstrike
Spoiler:
Garrac wrote: Copypasted from the Discord server, by Trout:
" Happy Monday ya filthy heretics. A few keen eyed individuals (most everyone) had noticed the "Warp Locus" keyword on certain CSM units (Maater of Posession, Khorne Lord of Skulls). Well I'm here to tell you at least part of what it does. As you may have heard, you will be able to deepstrike Daemons for free--but that's not all! When in the Warp these daemons gain special deepstrike rules.
They can deepstrike as normal, or if you set them up wholly within 6" of a Warp Locus unit, they can be set up just outside 6" from enemy units! (Instead of 9"). If you have allegiances you gotta stick with your friends. Warp Locus isn't a particularly common keyword, but an important lynchpin to enable brutal strategies.
No longer are you shelling out 2 or 3 cp to get a virtually gaurenteed charge with Bloodletters. I mean you will still be able to enhance charges in other ways, but now the floor is much higher. Looking to counter or stop your enemy from dropping hell on your doorstep? You'll want to remove enemy Warp Locus models as efficiently as you can. But that certainly won't be simple in most cases. The cool news is that deepstriking via the Warp has some other interesting rules if you're pure Daemons that make it even more appealing; those fighting daemons should generally stay out of daemonic territory, and keep a good sense of leadership.
That's it for that. A good mechanic to keep in mind as you read any upcoming information. I think it offers some good counter play, while also enabling some of the most reliable charges in the game. [PSA: As always understand things can change before release. So salt it a bit. "
"Time for the angriest of Daemons - Skarbrand!
As is appropriate for Skarbrand, his damage output has gone from "middling" to "through the roof". His bellow has quite literally doubled in potency, and at top profile you get the choice between 9 attacks at S16 ap-4 D3+3 damage ignoring invulns or a whopping 18 at s8 ap-2 d2. His "rage embodied" also remains the same as ever, though the range has shortened a tad to only 6".
The beast is no slouch durability wise either - with 20 wounds, t8, and a 4+ save in both melee and shooting, he's far from easy to take down, but if you're still worried just feel free to deep strike him - everyone in daemons can do that, remember?
Oh yeah one other thing - he's a Warp Locus."
Garrac wrote: Waiting for friday bcs it looks like this was a Chariot week spetial
Gonna update later with daemonettes profile
The Daemonette Profile leaked. Pretty much all the Slaanesh units except HQ's and Fiends.
SLAANESH:
Command Phase: Fights First, Fights Last, Fight on Death abilities.
Daemonettes: improved offense near characaters: full re-rolls, and auto-wounding on 6.
Chariots: T6
Epitome: no longer prevents fallback, its a primarily a spell caster
Masque: no longer utility, really interest buffs and debuffs.
Gained +1S [base 4], wounding MEQ on 4+ instead of 5+.
Gained +2A [base 4].
Gained +1M [base 7"].
Gained +1AP [no rending rule like genestealers, but they have ways of increasing AP with stragems and Heralds].
1X buffed up bomb unit and a few smaller units.
4X S4/AP-2/Dam 1 attacks for 8-9 PPM is pretty scary with a 4+ ranged daemon save, innate deep strike, and herald buffs.
CSM Legionaries with the MOK have 4X at S5/AP-2/D1 attacks melee for more than twice the supposed points costs of the new Daemonettes.
Gained +1S [base 4], wounding MEQ on 4+ instead of 5+.
Gained +2A [base 4].
Gained +1M [base 7"].
Gained +1AP [no native rend, but they have ways of increasing AP with stragems and Heralds].
1X buffed up bomb unit and a few smaller units.
SEEKER CHARIOT: [cheap]
M14", WS3, BS3, S4, T6, W7, A10, LD8, SV4/4
Claws:10X Attacks, Melee S:user(4)/AP-2/Dam 1
Seeker:4X Attacks, Melee S:user(4)/AP-/Dam 1
Does MW on the charge, averages 1-2 MW.
Whips: 4X shots with old profile.
Can be taken as a Herald mount.
LOS, and the claws go to 8X S:user(4)/AP-2/Dam 2.
Warlord Traits, Relics, Buffs to Daemonettes, and Core units.
HELLFLAYER: 80 pts
M14", WS3, BS3, S4, T6, W7, A8, LD8, SV4/4
Claws:8X Attacks, Melee S:user(4)/AP-2/Dam 1
Seeker:4X Attacks, Melee S:user(4)/AP-/Dam 1
Axel: 4X Attacks, Melee S6/AP-2/Dam 2/Auto-hits on charge
Double on the charge: 8 attacks
Gained -1 to hit.
Can be taken as a Herald mount.
LOS, and the claws go to 8X S:user(4)/AP-2/Dam 2.
Warlord Traits, Relics, Buffs to Daemonettes, and Core units.
Greater daemons 1 per detachment, 18+ Wounds
Smaller unit sizes (typically 10 on troops, 6 on elites)
Auras are command phase stuff
DS almost army wide
Instead of invulns armour that is unaffected by AP (why?) and different in melee vs range
Horrors split on a 5+ for free
Treason of Tzench is no auras for you, infernal gateway buffed (flat 3 on mega cast, and aura from target unit not model)
Bloodletters strong (A2 S5 ap-3 2D)
Khorne rendmaster
Bloodthirster, D3+3 damage big swing
Lots of +1 T for khorne Crushers 5 W
Plauge bearers T5 2W
DG version of DR
Nurglinings not troop
Nurgle better at wounding things
Beasts tanky
Slaanesh all round small improvements
Rumor sounds like Daemons returning to their pre-6th edition status of a more elite army rather than the horde they've become since then. Which is not necessarily bad.
And I guess their save against range will be better than against melee, right?
It is generally better to have protection against ranged than against melee, but it depends of which team you're facing and how is the terrain
I understand they're trying to protect the biggest daemons from hammerstrikes. I've been playing CK those last weeks and it is so bad.
You can build a 24W T8 3+ 4++ antireroll 5+++ toy and dying fast anyways. As you can only bring 1 greater demon, they will probably want him to be cool in matches.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/07/07 12:38:41
Sgt. Cortez wrote: Rumor sounds like Daemons returning to their pre-6th edition status of a more elite army rather than the horde they've become since then. Which is not necessarily bad.
And I guess their save against range will be better than against melee, right?
God I would love that.
I hated the horde-ification of Daemons. Legitimately one of the worst choices GW has ever made.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/07/07 13:30:27
The biggest indicator someone is a loser is them complaining about 3d printers or piracy.
Is this actually strong? I mean I know we don't know what heroes/army abilities/stratagems they have but that doesn't seem like a super great profile.
Presumably they get +1 attack on the charge as part of the standard Khorne rules. Then there will inevitably be some combination of extra bonuses available such as +1 to hit, extra strength, exploding hits, and so on. Greater daemons will buff them, character WLTs will buff them, icons and army special rules will buff them.
I wouldn't be surprised if they end up with more combat power than Bladeguard for way less points.
As an aside, have Dexcesssa and Synessa been shoe horned into 40K yet, like Belakor was?
I just bought a Synessa for my new Hedonite army and if there is crossover, that'd be cool if I ever decide to get back into 40K in some capacity.
"Sometimes the only victory possible is to keep your opponent from winning." - The Emperor, from The Outcast Dead.
"Tell your gods we are coming for them, and that their realms will burn as ours did." -Thostos Bladestorm
Instead of invulns armour that is unaffected by AP (why?) and different in melee vs range
This is 100% GW. First they make high AP guns which cant be saved on normal saves. Then they introduce a save which ignores AP. Then they introduce guns which ignore inv. And now they will introduce a save which cant be ignored.
Sgt. Cortez wrote: Rumor sounds like Daemons returning to their pre-6th edition status of a more elite army rather than the horde they've become since then. Which is not necessarily bad.
This might get me to play 40K again. I hate hatehate the mindset of "they suck now, but they cost less points so you can field MORE of them!" That pushed me out of the last edition of Fantasy before the End Times implosion. I liked when 15 Plaguebearers meant something.
I hate that the fluff for a Bloodcrusher states they can shrug off small arms fire only to lose three per round in-game to scouts with bolt pistols!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/07/07 15:15:27
Honestly, as someone who owns something like 80 Bloodletters, 140 Daemonettes, 90 Horrors, 100 Plaguebearers, 60 Seekers, 27 Screamers, 36 Flamers, 60 Nurgling bases, etc. etc. etc. I'm perfectly okay with Daemons remaining a horde army.
CoALabaer wrote: Wargamers hate two things: the state of the game and change.
nels1031 wrote: As an aside, have Dexcesssa and Synessa been shoe horned into 40K yet, like Belakor was?
I just bought a Synessa for my new Hedonite army and if there is crossover, that'd be cool if I ever decide to get back into 40K in some capacity.
Not to date, and I'd like to seem them keep some elements different between AoS and 40k in terms of the roster - which would include having some 40k-specific units/characters too.
Gamgee on Tau Players wrote:we all kill cats and sell our own families to the devil and eat live puppies.
Kanluwen wrote: This is, emphatically, why I will continue suggesting nuking Guard and starting over again. It's a legacy army that needs to be rebooted with a new focal point.
Confirmation of why no-one should listen to Kanluwen when it comes to the IG - he doesn't want the IG, he want's Kan's New Model Army...
tneva82 wrote: You aren't even trying ty pretend for honest arqument. Open bad faith trolling.
- No reason to keep this here, unless people want to use it for something...
nels1031 wrote: As an aside, have Dexcesssa and Synessa been shoe horned into 40K yet, like Belakor was?
I just bought a Synessa for my new Hedonite army and if there is crossover, that'd be cool if I ever decide to get back into 40K in some capacity.
Not to date, and I'd like to seem them keep some elements different between AoS and 40k in terms of the roster - which would include having some 40k-specific units/characters too.
That would be pretty much the entire mortals portion of the range. I think any Daemon should be fairgame between the two.
Instead of invulns armour that is unaffected by AP (why?) and different in melee vs range
This is 100% GW. First they make high AP guns which cant be saved on normal saves. Then they introduce a save which ignores AP. Then they introduce guns which ignore inv. And now they will introduce a save which cant be ignored.
I'm not convinced that's the idea. Abilities to ignore invulns are still relatively rare, and generally available to units in specific roles such as hammerheads or anti-elite melee characters. Typically units you don't see sweeping through battleline daemons like horrors or plaguebearers. It's not a strong justification for an army wide rule like this.
I just noticed that summary is missing a detail from the video: daemons have split saves for different attacks that also differ for each god. For example Tzeentch is 3+ against ranged attacks but 5+ in melee.
Someone also noted above that AOS Nighthaunt have a rule that ignores both positive and negative modifiers to their saves, meaning daemons may not benefit from cover as well as ignoring normal weapon behaviour.
This would all add up to daemons behaving in a unique and unnatural way compared to other factions, which I think is the main intent.
nels1031 wrote: As an aside, have Dexcesssa and Synessa been shoe horned into 40K yet, like Belakor was?
I just bought a Synessa for my new Hedonite army and if there is crossover, that'd be cool if I ever decide to get back into 40K in some capacity.
Not yet, though the difference being that Be'Lakor was always in 40k and just needed an excuse for an updated profile while Dex & Syn are new characters with potency high enough to justify more than a 'this dude is a thing now' in a new codex. Will probably just be that though.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
ArcaneHorror wrote: I wasn't expecting two wound Plaguebearers. What they really need is ap on their sword.
They went to 2W in AoS recently, so I'm expecting it in 40k. Also makes the DG version of disgustingly resilient work, though still the exact fething opposite of it's fluff.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/07/07 19:30:34