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Hello everyone, I have been out of the hobby for a while now as I no longer had time to paint, lost access to a local gaming community and wanted the money from my armies to pay for university. Something that has been on my mind lately is reflecting on what was positive and negative about the hobby. I played a lot in my early and late teen years, and think that it taught me some good lessons such as fairness in play, communication, scheduling and dedication in painting my armies, organization and even study habits when it came to making competitive lists. But I also think that time could have been better spent, and think that the sheer amount of hard earned money going to the hobby isn’t prudent, something that stops me from rejoining the hobby today.

This leads me to my question. What are your experiences with your children who have grown up that you raised with exposure to 40k? Do they still play 40k? If they stopped, why did they? If they still play, do you think it improved him or her as a well rounded person?

For those who were raised with one of your parents playing 40k and were introduced to it that way, do you think it has made you a better person? Of course, the hobby is fun, that’s why you are here, but outside of that, do you think that it has made you better in life?

If you're talking about how time could be "better spent" then you are missing the point of a hobby.

Also, 40k isn't really that expensive. It's a lot of money if you're a kid with $50 in birthday money as your budget but compare it to adult hobbies and the cost is pretty minimal.

I was 16 when I discovered Rogue Trader. I was already an RPG gamer by then, and already a sci-fi nerd, and avid reader. $0k's influence on me improved my painting skills, influenced my peer groups and guided some of my extra-curricular choices- I was on the executive of my university gaming society for 2 years, and I helped organize a whole lot of tournaments.

I never had my own kids, but I've used 40k in classrooms and youth rec programs, and that did have a lot of benefits for those kids. It made math interesting, it created people who read novels for fun (somewhere in the neighbourhood of 8 kids confided in me that before 40k, they had never read a novel that they didn't have to read for schools). It also gave a lot of kids who were socially awkward a way to find a peer group.

I have no regrets getting into 40k. It was very inspiring with its minis, artwork, rules and game. I think it tought me alot about creativity and comradery. If I could travel back in time to those days I would do it again, maybe with even more commitment.

Not sure that 40k today is the same beast though, creativity is often discouraged and even frowned upon as base sizes and model siluettes are enforced, and the promoted paintjobs, sculpts and artwork are sterile. I would not start with it today, even if I was a kid.

I went from 13 to 18. What I learned over the time, is aside for the rules etc is a ton of useful stuff for everyday interaction. Specialy some common rules on how people act, how groups act. Something I always struggled with was people saying, not being what they mean. Or the fact that some people or groups can just do bad things with zero shame or will to fix it. Big important lessons for life for me.

 Gitdakka wrote:
I have no regrets getting into 40k. It was very inspiring with its minis, artwork, rules and game. I think it tought me alot about creativity and comradery. If I could travel back in time to those days I would do it again, maybe with even more commitment.

Not sure that 40k today is the same beast though, creativity is often discouraged and even frowned upon as base sizes and model siluettes are enforced, and the promoted paintjobs, sculpts and artwork are sterile. I would not start with it today, even if I was a kid.

+1, especially the point about creativity now being discouraged. I started back in 2nd edition and really enjoy the older codexes (especially the 3rd/4th edition era) that included pictures of a lot of conversions created by players/fans and painted models/conversions that sometimes differed significantly from the "official" model design and paint scheme. The 4th edition rulebook is still my favorite, including templates and tips for creating your own bunkers and scenery. But now GW is so focused on selling its monopose models and its own expensive scenery kits instead of promoting homemade scenery, and players are even discouraged from painting their models in paint schemes that differ from the "official" paint scheme ("nope, you can't play those purple space marines as Ultramarines; they must be blue . . .").

I have two young boys (ages 8 and 6) and they have not shown much interest yet in my 40k models and books (Super Mario, Minecraft, Roblox and Youtube are what they are into at the moment). While I would not discourage them from getting into 40k, if they showed an interest I might try to nudge them towards older editions or alternative rulesets that still allow for creativity while still letting them play with their models however they are converted, look or are painted. I would also give them a primer on how GW operates, with its edition churn, shoddy rules writing, and exorbitant model pricing in comparison to many other vendors.

 Gnarlly wrote:

I have two young boys (ages 8 and 6) and they have not shown much interest yet in my 40k models and books (Super Mario, Minecraft, Roblox and Youtube are what they are into at the moment). While I would not discourage them from getting into 40k, if they showed an interest I might try to nudge them towards older editions or alternative rulesets that still allow for creativity while still letting them play with their models however they are converted, look or are painted. I would also give them a primer on how GW operates, with its edition churn, shoddy rules writing, and exorbitant model pricing in comparison to many other vendors.

I seriously doubt your children will care anything about that.

You: "The evils of GW..... blah blah blah."
Your child (thinking): "???"

ccs wrote:

 Gnarlly wrote:

I have two young boys (ages 8 and 6) and they have not shown much interest yet in my 40k models and books (Super Mario, Minecraft, Roblox and Youtube are what they are into at the moment). While I would not discourage them from getting into 40k, if they showed an interest I might try to nudge them towards older editions or alternative rulesets that still allow for creativity while still letting them play with their models however they are converted, look or are painted. I would also give them a primer on how GW operates, with its edition churn, shoddy rules writing, and exorbitant model pricing in comparison to many other vendors.

I seriously doubt your children will care anything about that.

You: "The evils of GW..... blah blah blah."
Your child (thinking): "???"

I mean they might care about the pricing. Hey kid you can get these 10 orks from GW or these 30 alien brutes from some other company, your choice since they cost the same"

Edit: ok maybe orks is hard to find a direct equalivent.

 Gnarlly wrote:

I have two young boys (ages 8 and 6) and they have not shown much interest yet in my 40k models and books (Super Mario, Minecraft, Roblox and Youtube are what they are into at the moment). While I would not discourage them from getting into 40k, if they showed an interest I might try to nudge them towards older editions or alternative rulesets that still allow for creativity while still letting them play with their models however they are converted, look or are painted. I would also give them a primer on how GW operates, with its edition churn, shoddy rules writing, and exorbitant model pricing in comparison to many other vendors.

Kinda sounds like you won't be encouraging them into 40K and will do your best to discourage them into something else. Which I can't help feel is the wrong way about it. Sounds like you'd have far more fun encouraging them into Battletech or Infinity or any one of the number of other wargame or skirmish games that you are currently enjoying. If your focus is on the negative parts, some of which are fact and some of which are opinion, then you're really not selling something to someone all that well; esp a kid.

I don't know if I would point to a luxury goods company that doesn't use slave labor (unlike Apple) and doesn't offshore its finances as an example of an evil company, if I were trying to educate my children on corporate ethics. Like if FOMO marketing and profit seeking activities that occasionally alienate existing customers is evil, I envy the world you live in.

 Gitdakka wrote:


I mean they might care about the pricing. Hey kid you can get these 10 orks from GW or these 30 alien brutes from some other company, your choice since they cost the same"

Edit: ok maybe orks is hard to find a direct equalivent.

I don't think a box or a single unit can make someone think that GW is evil. Now on the other hand, if you spend a substential amount of money, get stuck with something you don't like for years, see it never fixed with the full knowladge that the next time you will get comperable money is when you will get a summer job at 18+, and you are like 14, then yes. Something like that can make you think that GW is evil for some time.

Or when GW hypes stuff up, you think that this is going to be the time to play, that updates are coming faster then ever. And then GW not only doesn't update your faction, they actualy kill your game, remove your faction from the new one and you are left with an army, you maybe started to invest in to again expecting more stuff and updated rules. For something like that you can realy start to dislike GW.

 Gitdakka wrote:

ccs wrote:

 Gnarlly wrote:

I have two young boys (ages 8 and 6) and they have not shown much interest yet in my 40k models and books (Super Mario, Minecraft, Roblox and Youtube are what they are into at the moment). While I would not discourage them from getting into 40k, if they showed an interest I might try to nudge them towards older editions or alternative rulesets that still allow for creativity while still letting them play with their models however they are converted, look or are painted. I would also give them a primer on how GW operates, with its edition churn, shoddy rules writing, and exorbitant model pricing in comparison to many other vendors.

I seriously doubt your children will care anything about that.

You: "The evils of GW..... blah blah blah."
Your child (thinking): "???"

I mean they might care about the pricing. Hey kid you can get these 10 orks from GW or these 30 alien brutes from some other company, your choice since they cost the same"

Edit: ok maybe orks is hard to find a direct equalivent.

Or you could say that the quality is something worth considering as the models hold their value and you have a much larger pool to sell back to if you ever wanted to get out.

Call pricing what you want, but GW makes superb models that people want.

You go tell tomb king or bretonia players that. Or people that bought chaplain dreadnoughts, had nob biker warbosses. There is a reason why many people are willing to buy models for GW games as cheap as possible. I am sorry but single characters, whose only difference from a regular model is a melee weapon is not worth 60$.

 Bloviator wrote:
I don't know if I would point to a luxury goods company that doesn't use slave labor (unlike Apple) and doesn't offshore its finances as an example of an evil company, if I were trying to educate my children on corporate ethics. Like if FOMO marketing and profit seeking activities that occasionally alienate existing customers is evil, I envy the world you live in.

I don't see anyone in this thread calling GW an evil company.

I do see someone saying they'd educate their kids about GW's business practices if they expressed interest, so the implication that GW not using literal slave labor or tax havens earns them immunity to criticism is pretty far out there.

Can't say anything for raising children, but I find I found it both a positive and negative experience.

Tabletop gaming really requires finding the right tribe as it were, or the right gaming buddy, otherwise it can be a miserable experience. Learned the hard way to avoid condescending people like the plague and if someone if showing signs of aggressive behaviour to try and understand them. Sometimes an aggressive person has some condition or experience we're not aware of, and in private break down knowing what they're doing is through triggers they struggle to control, but really want to be welcome in the company of others.

Positively I grew to enjoy the creative side of the hobby, which helped a lot when it came to art and computing. Sometimes we're missing something in a board game but unlike the computer games we buy, we can usually fix them right there and then. House rules and all that jazz. Also, we can play the role of characters we don't usually get the chance to portray, which can help us emotionally. For example, I had a lot of difficulty dealing with rejection and defeat and as a child, but 40K introduced me to the role of genestealers and gave thought to the task of creating the atmosphere for other players, like a film director; I won when the other players managed to claw an escape from being swarmed and enjoy doing so. It gave me power to adjust the game when another player is getting upset. When times were lonely - sometimes groups weren't available, I'd come up with quick rules for solo play. This helped me think faster for real life situations when sometimes all we do have is ourselves to turn to.

For those that replied to my post about what I might do if my kids expressed an interest in 40k, know that they would be using their own money for most of their purchases, either from an allowance from doing chores or eventually having their own job (ex. I cut grass and babysat before I could get a license to drive to higher paying jobs).

I would not tell them that GW is “evil” in any way. I respect capitalism and a company’s right to price what they sell as the company sees fit. But I would tell them that many of the expensive game books sold for 40k are invalidated within months after release due to errata and edition churn, that even some models and modeled equipment are invalidated when new books are released, and that there can be other options (I imagine 3d printing will be even more popular by then). I think that is the responsible thing to do for anyone interested in getting into the 40k hobby based on GW’s track record. If they still want to spend their money on those things, then that is up to them and I would not chastise them for it. I’m sure my parents raised their eyebrows at some of the purchases I used to make with my money, but they never chastised me for it.

To add, as I have numerous armies and rules books from the eras of 2nd to 5th edition, as well as paint, brushes, and quite a few models still to paint, they could easily get “into the hobby” without spending a dime.

And if I was going to “push” any game on them, it would be Blood Bowl

If you have the backlog then why bother telling them from the get-go about invalidation and all that? Why make them sad about a hobby they haven't even started yet?
It just seems like a bad idea to go "Hey there kiddos here's this game that's fun but your books and models might not be usable in six months, enjoy.".
Also, if you're doing said games in the comfort of home, then invalidation is a sort of moot concept.

As for the OP, honestly, I've had many thoughts about quitting 40k as a hobby. Most of 6th and 7th editions were super dark times for my hobby personally and if there was ever going to be a time I came closest to quitting it was then. Life already sucked then and it made me extremely bitter that I couldn't even go to my "fun thing" to be happy.
That being said.
As a whole, I'd say for getting kids into 40k as a sort of "family thing" that can become a "friends thing", it's a good time to do it. The store near me does intro courses for beginners and then just releases them into the wild but they make it very clear that 40k is not only meant to be played with the GT packets GW sells. As a parent, you have that same sort of ability and I really wish that when I got into the hobby, the store team was more open to the idea of not starting Warhammer arms races.

It depends.

My experience growing up with wargaming is overall really quite positive.

Started properly in 1989 with Heroquest, which I got for my 9th birthday. Year or so later, brother’s school friend showed be a copy of White Dwarf 133, which ably demonstrated Heroquest (and by then Space Crusade) were just the tip of an iceberg.

We moved to England, so I lost all my friends. Being an odd kid, the new friends I made all revolves around a mutual love for 40K and WHFB. Whilst it was some years before I delved into 40K, stuff like Space Hulk, Tyranid Attack, Man’o’War and even Epic provided a lower cost experience.

By the time I was 19, I was a Key Timer at my local store.

I’m now 42, and whilst I don’t really play these days (work pressures, long commute, mental exhaustion from work etc), I’m still active. I’m currently collecting old rule books and source books (complete set of Rogue Trader, 3 Codecies off complete 2nd Ed etc) and bloody love the lore.

And pretty much everyone I know is directly or indirectly a result of This Peculiar Hobby.

Last night I hosted the first session of a Vampire The Masquerade chronicle, with my best and now oldest mate - who I met the day I started school in England, and bonded with over GW stuff.

It can be a very social hobby - but that can depend upon location, and I suppose time period. I was lucky. I grew up as GW grew up. By the time gaming in store wasn’t really a thing anymore? I was old enough, mature enough and earning enough to game at home and at a club. But, if you don’t have a local store or club? You’re just not gonna have anything like the experience I’ve had.

I was brought into the hobby very early by my oldest brother. He was a fair bit older and I've nothing but fond memories of those early days in the later 80s, early 90s. It was when I got out the hobby, about 16, that I feel my personality was more affected. Like a lot round where I grew up, I thought the most important thing to do with my time was drink. Now that cost me a lot more than Warhammer ever did! Got back into the hobby when I hit 30 and never looked back since. I've now got my own little ones and they're getting to an age now where I'm wondering how best to introduce them. Really looking forward to many kitchen table battles with them.

I don't have children yet but from my own experience I was a poor reader when young but loved the 40K lore and devoured it as much as I could.

30 years later I am a commercial contracts lawyer. I think the 40K articles helped alot to improve my literacy.

I started at ten. Now I spend way more money then I should on the hobby

I didn’t start the hobby until I was 23. I only played with friends and family for over a decade, and now will only play with hobby friends I enjoy hanging around with. The idea of pick-up games with randos at the store weirds me out.

Since I never saw this as a social hobby, I never encouraged my son to see it that way, either. It’s more like a board game, competing and losing to Horizon Wars and Shadows of Brimstone, which he plays with us and with his cousins. He was mildly interested in the novels and background books, but not enough to read them over books he is more interested in, which is almost everything else in the house.

Played from RT to 4th/5th edition, then life intervened, and I had no involvement, bit never lost interest. I just wasn't in a position to collect or play. Now I have a 9yo and a 3yo, and just got back into 40K earlier this year. My oldest is semi-interested, and wants me to paint up some minis for him to play with(as toys ‐ not the game, yet). The 3yo knows "Daddy's Space Marines stuffs" and seems to like it. He's getting good at identifying various factions. He knew without being told that my Mcfarlane genestealer was a "bad guy" and has claimed it as his own, along with one the Primaris figures(his "good guy Space Marine. )

40k definitely had a massive detrimental effect on my schoolwork. I was so completely invested in it from ages 11-18 that I would just spend lessons writing army lists because I had all the points memorised. I ended up being known as the nerdy kid in school who was obsessed with his ‘toys’ so it probably had a negative effect on social development too.

I also got into Xbox through the people I met playing 40k which probably had an even worse effect on schoolwork and grades!

Overall I don’t regret it because Saturdays at the GW was some of my best memories growing up, but I’m pretty sure my life would’ve been a lot different if id never started Warhammer.

 Murrax9 wrote:
Hello everyone, I have been out of the hobby for a while now as I no longer had time to paint, lost access to a local gaming community and wanted the money from my armies to pay for university. Something that has been on my mind lately is reflecting on what was positive and negative about the hobby. I played a lot in my early and late teen years, and think that it taught me some good lessons such as fairness in play, communication, scheduling and dedication in painting my armies, organization and even study habits when it came to making competitive lists. But I also think that time could have been better spent, and think that the sheer amount of hard earned money going to the hobby isn’t prudent, something that stops me from rejoining the hobby today.

This leads me to my question. What are your experiences with your children who have grown up that you raised with exposure to 40k? Do they still play 40k? If they stopped, why did they? If they still play, do you think it improved him or her as a well rounded person?

For those who were raised with one of your parents playing 40k and were introduced to it that way, do you think it has made you a better person? Of course, the hobby is fun, that’s why you are here, but outside of that, do you think that it has made you better in life?

Not every tabletop game needs to be expensive. Take a look at Gaslands as an example.

 Strg Alt wrote:

Not every tabletop game needs to be expensive. Take a look at Gaslands as an example.

most aren't tbh (at least not to the level of 40k)

This is more from a lore perspective as I grew up with the stories/setting since my early teens... but I liked it more when I was younger then when I did now.

Technology ruined a lot honestly. It was more fun when everything was word of mouth or discovered on your own. Less arguments or feel bads to be had because the online world was less of a thing. No one was dredging up drama for karma points or views on YT. No one (at least locally) was whining or complaining about what should be.

Just a bunch of nerds who were flabbergasted and excited to see heavy metal grim dark future dystopian nightmares. That was the spirit of 40k to me. And still is with the right people. But that's so rare to feel anymore.

edit - jesus I read some of the replies. This. This nonsense is what I'm talking about. There was none of this growing up and it was so much better lol.

I've been wargaming in in one form or another since I was 12 in the 90s. Much of it 40k, also Battlemasters, Battletech and others. I wish I'd played and painted 40k more. Not because it was affordable, but because it would have been good to focus on one game more than some of the others I dabbled in.

It remained a background hobby until I was an adult when I founded a group with like lined players. Now we play a number of games.

40k is not on the menu, but I play Grimdark Future with my son and we use second hand 40k figures and old 40k Codices for fluff. He's learning tactics and figure painting and I think that's a good thing and doesn't cost allot. My daughter sometimes plays Song of Blades with us and my wife will join us for Heroquest.

The key seems to be that we share in the hobby together in a way that I did not share it with my parents. It's ok to have solitary pursuits, but any activity really shines in the family seeing in so far as it facilitates family togetherness.

It's also facilitated some long term adult friendships for me.

Speaking for myself - I played the most in the 2nd edition and 3rd edition era when I was in middle school and some of high school. I continued to play on and off over the years with a group of friends that I was friends with outside of 40K.

I think that for certain people, 40K can be addictive like other types of hobbies (video games, etc) and fairly all-consuming, in terms of mental space as well as financially. I think it's important to try and be balanced in ones life, and my parents encouraged that. Sure - I had weekends spent in friends rooms/basements playing 40K - but I was also pushed to do other things (play instruments, play sports/be active).

I'm in my 40's and have two young kids (one entering middle school) as well as some close nephews that are also a little into 40K. I guess I'd stress the same thing - the importance of being well-rounded and have varied experiences when growing up. Life can't be all about one thing (eg 40K).

On the positive side. Learning to model and paint minis is a nice artistic/creative outlet. Reading lore and rule books is good for promoting reading generally. Learning how to play a complex rule system I have to imagine helps with critical thinking, interpretation, comprehension, etc. And playing games themselves can certainly be an opportunity to learn about positive competitive spirit, winning and losing gracefully, taking in feedback, evaluating self-performance, etc.

All said, I've always played 40K on my own table (or friends tables). We never had the need to go to store or game shop in order to play - and so we're not connected with any sort of local community of players.