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Made in us
Deadly Tomb Guard





Florida

Hi all.

This is an appeal for ideas, as frankly I'm out of them .

Situation:

I'm a hobby retailer. More then that:

I'm a direct mantic retailer. Granted I also retail fireforge and a couple other lines, but mantic is direct stock straight from the company.

My Facebook posts keep getting removed from various groups, even if there isn't any direct up selling.

Facebook marketing is a joke, as the algorithm hasn't produced results even when I throw my advertising budget at it

I've had limited success advertising on message boards. Even the ads I took out here on dakka for wargames Atlantic sets haven't driven many sales conversions.

All I was trying to do was spread word of mouth about my store. Not push sales, not hard sell a kit like someone would sell a car.

I kept topics on theme. This last one was a detailed breakdown of a conversion I did with Mantic parts. It had one link right at the end for a mantic product. So it wasn't even like I was posting about a completely different brand.

I'm not a traditional retailer. I don't have a public store space. At least not yet. It's something I want to grow to.

But I can't grow if I don't make sales. And I can't make sales unless I can get word of mouth out there to gamers. I've stated an open offer of prize support for any competitions or tournaments. I've had one inquiry.

Frankly, it makes me feel like the wider aming community sees me as a money-grubbing greedy store owner. I am not that.

Our hobby is a beautiful one. We create art every day even if the medium isn't the standard of what others might consider art. Where others see pikes of shame I see opportunity to create something beautiful.

And to share that experience with the wider community Is a joy too. Explaining every step on a paint scheme, every part on a conversion.

All I want is to help people find love for a hobby and art form that I love. And maybe make enough to pay my bills.

What is wrong with that?

And frankly, how else do I get the word out to gamers, other than going into debt to set up a stand at a trade show and then maybe break even the first time?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/08/21 18:12:30


McDougall Designs Wargaming Retailer

McDougall Designs Dakka News thread.

McDougall Designs Facebook page

I am an Authorized Retailer of Wargames Atlantic and Mantic games, and carry shieldwolf and fireforge (among others) from distributors. 
   
Made in fr
Perfect Shot Ultramarine Predator Pilot




 McDougall Designs wrote:
Frankly, it makes me feel like the wider aming community sees me as a money-grubbing greedy store owner. I am not that.


There's your problem. You're seeing retail as a hobby where you can have fun doing cool stuff and get the community to love you, when in reality it's a ruthless business with low profit margins, tough competition, and a high failure rate. The stores that succeed are the ones that understand the reality of retail and treat it is a for-profit business where the goal, above anything else, is to generate profit for the owner. Every decision should be evaluated in the context of "how does this directly result in more money for me" and if you can't provide clear answers to that question you don't run a retail business.

(And TBH if you had asked this question you wouldn't have bothered to start an online-only store. Online retail is already covered by existing stores and another store adds nothing of value unless you can afford to undercut their prices. If you can't open a physical location in a market with a shortage of nearby physical stores don't bother.)

And frankly, how else do I get the word out to gamers, other than going into debt to set up a stand at a trade show and then maybe break even the first time?


Start by providing something of value. You've posted a bunch of words here about how you love the hobby but you haven't said one bit about the only thing any of your customers care about: what is your discount off MSRP. If you want me to click "buy" on your store instead of going direct to Mantic's online store you need to show me a lower price, by at least 10% and preferably 15-20%. Don't bother talking about anything else until you tell me that discount percentage.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/08/21 18:24:38


 
   
Made in us
Deadly Tomb Guard





Florida

My standard mantic discount is 20% off, and 10% for mantic direct items.

That is posted everywhere on my webstore related to mantic. The prices match it.

And no, I don't see it as a hobby business. But I'm realistic. I'm not a capitalistic "retail must be money at all costs"

I'm trying to be someone who makes an honest living selling model kits, that's it.

McDougall Designs Wargaming Retailer

McDougall Designs Dakka News thread.

McDougall Designs Facebook page

I am an Authorized Retailer of Wargames Atlantic and Mantic games, and carry shieldwolf and fireforge (among others) from distributors. 
   
Made in fr
Perfect Shot Ultramarine Predator Pilot




 McDougall Designs wrote:
My standard mantic discount is 20% off, and 10% for mantic direct items.


See, that's what you should be leading with every time. I don't care about your hobby articles or how much you love helping people or your opinions on the beautiful potential of a pile of shame. I care that I get a 20%/10% discount by buying through your store instead of buying directly from Mantic. If you keep leading with the fluff you're going to draw little interest and most of the people who do look will just read the blog and never convert into customers.

(I'll assume that these discounts at least equal what other Mantic sellers are doing, I don't buy any of their products so I don't know any of the specifics. If they aren't at least equal you need to increase your discount, and you probably need to increase your discount anyway. If an existing store offers 20% off MSRP you need to offer 25% off MSRP or you have zero customers.)

I'm not a capitalistic "retail must be money at all costs"


Then you will fail.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/08/21 18:49:13


 
   
Made in us
Deadly Tomb Guard





Florida

Aecus Decimus wrote:
 McDougall Designs wrote:
My standard mantic discount is 20% off, and 10% for mantic direct items.


See, that's what you should be leading with every time. I don't care about your hobby articles or how much you love helping people or your opinions on the beautiful potential of a pile of shame. I care that I get a 20%/10% discount by buying through your store instead of buying directly from Mantic. If you keep leading with the fluff you're going to draw little interest and most of the people who do look will just read the blog and never convert into customers.

(I'll assume that these discounts at least equal what other Mantic sellers are doing, I don't buy any of their products so I don't know any of the specifics. If they aren't at least equal you need to increase your discount, and you probably need to increase your discount anyway. If an existing store offers 20% off MSRP you need to offer 25% off MSRP or you have zero customers.)

I'm not a capitalistic "retail must be money at all costs"


Then you will fail.


Thank you for your pragmatic viewpoint.

1. I shouldn't have to lead with it. Prices are marked at that discount.

And my discount is equal or better to anyone that I have found in the states, and I offer the full range available to order on my webstore with clearly marked product types.

Sometimes you can't place a larger discount though. For example, several manufacturers put a cap on discounts.

Granted, not everyone complies, but I will.

2. As to me failing, I'd rather fail knowing I did fair business and tried to simply make an honest days return. I want to do right by my customers not leech from them.

McDougall Designs Wargaming Retailer

McDougall Designs Dakka News thread.

McDougall Designs Facebook page

I am an Authorized Retailer of Wargames Atlantic and Mantic games, and carry shieldwolf and fireforge (among others) from distributors. 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka




NE Ohio, USA

So you're one more on-line store with standard discount rates. {shrugs} Ok....
   
Made in us
Deadly Tomb Guard





Florida

ccs wrote:
So you're one more on-line store with standard discount rates. {shrugs} Ok....


With the entire product line available from my store platform. Other retailers don't have every product code, or want to keep it updated.

I have testimonials on my news and rumors thread that speak to my customer service.

I offer a lot more than just "Standard discount rates".

McDougall Designs Wargaming Retailer

McDougall Designs Dakka News thread.

McDougall Designs Facebook page

I am an Authorized Retailer of Wargames Atlantic and Mantic games, and carry shieldwolf and fireforge (among others) from distributors. 
   
Made in fr
Perfect Shot Ultramarine Predator Pilot




 McDougall Designs wrote:
1. I shouldn't have to lead with it. Prices are marked at that discount.


But a potential customer isn't at your store to see them. You posted here and put up a long wall of text about your love for the hobby and didn't say one word about your discount. If the first words a potential customer sees are anything but "X% off MSRP" then most of the time that is the end of the interaction and you have lost that potential customer. They aren't clicking through to your store to see what your prices are. The only reason I'm bothering to engage with you at all is because I felt like being helpful, if I was just a customer I would have closed the tab after reading your first sentence.

Sometimes you can't place a larger discount though. For example, several manufacturers put a cap on discounts.


Then if someone else in the online retail business is already offering the maximum discount you should consider it a strong warning against attempting to enter that market. If an existing store offers 20% off MSRP then why do I as a potential customer care that you also offer 20% off MSRP? I'll just keep buying from the existing store. It's very hard to compete in that situation and you're going to struggle to get the required sales volume to stay in business.

2. As to me failing, I'd rather fail knowing I did fair business and tried to simply make an honest days return. I want to do right by my customers not leech from them.


That's your right. I hope you didn't borrow any money or sacrifice too much of your savings on this doomed effort.
   
Made in us
Deadly Tomb Guard





Florida

Aecus Decimus wrote:


Sometimes you can't place a larger discount though. For example, several manufacturers put a cap on discounts.


Then if someone else in the online retail business is already offering the maximum discount you should consider it a strong warning against attempting to enter that market. If an existing store offers 20% off MSRP then why do I as a potential customer care that you also offer 20% off MSRP? I'll just keep buying from the existing store. It's very hard to compete in that situation and you're going to struggle to get the required sales volume to stay in business.



So one store offering max discount denudes the possibility of competition? It's not my fault manufacturers put a cap on what any retailer can sell their product at.

McDougall Designs Wargaming Retailer

McDougall Designs Dakka News thread.

McDougall Designs Facebook page

I am an Authorized Retailer of Wargames Atlantic and Mantic games, and carry shieldwolf and fireforge (among others) from distributors. 
   
Made in fr
Perfect Shot Ultramarine Predator Pilot




 McDougall Designs wrote:
I offer a lot more than just "Standard discount rates".


Then mention that stuff instead of all the fluff. I don't care about your cool conversion ideas or how you see beauty in piles of shame, I care about exactly three things from an online store:

1) The price is the cheapest available.

2) The product arrives on schedule at my house with no issues.

3) Any issues that do come up are promptly resolved by sending me a replacement.

If it isn't directly related to one of those things I don't want to hear about it. If you have an advantage in offering fewer issues with inventory management then that should be right up front in talking about what your store offers, way before any of the irrelevant fluff.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 McDougall Designs wrote:
So one store offering max discount denudes the possibility of competition?


Pretty much. A physical retail store can compete on location and convenience as long as the area isn't already so saturated with stores that your "closest store to me" customer pool is too small to pay the bills. An online store doesn't have that option, you're competing with every other online store and the primary thing customers care about is price. Online sales is a mature technology in 2022 and things like "the product ships on schedule" are now the expected bare minimum, not something to brag about and compete on. So if there is already a store offering a functional online shopping experience with the maximum permitted discount how exactly do you intend to compete with them?

It's not my fault manufacturers put a cap on what any retailer can sell their product at.


It's not. But you aren't entitled to have a successful store, sometimes the answer is simply that you're too late and there isn't a viable business plan.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/08/21 19:59:21


 
   
Made in gb
The Daemon Possessing Fulgrim's Body





Devon, UK

ccs wrote:
So you're one more on-line store with standard discount rates. {shrugs} Ok....


Yeah, that's the issue in a nutshell.

You've got a short list of levers you can pull to try and move things forward

1) Price. Being cheaper than anyone else is a slippery slope for a small business, bigger fish can sustain a smaller margin or even a loss far more easily. But you can box clever, offering a deeper discount on a few key items on a short term basis, rotating frequently to stop others just reacting and matching, and hope you can make up business on the "while I'm here" effect. Not something I'd suggest as a pillar of the business, but a useful supplementary strategy.

2) Service. Arguably harder to compete on than price for an online seller, the big players have made what would have been exemplary service a decade ago simply the baseline. The only real area you can demonstrate any level of service is how you manage problems, so ideally you want as few instances that you demonstrate this as possible, making it impractical to focus on. Couple that with how people much more readily talk about poor service than good and this is stoney ground.

3) Range. Again, tough for an online seller, but a better idea than offering something cheaper than anyone else is being able to supply something that's hard to get hold of. Research is vital, if the competition aren't selling it then odds are it's because nobody wants to buy it. But there could be opportunities here, as an example, for a long time there was only really one place in the UK you could order Reaper Paint from, there's still relatively few, so that made me a miniatureheroes.co.uk customer by default. Now more places have started to carry it, but I still go back to the same place because the price isn't egregious, dispatch has always been reasonable and he's saved in my bookmarks.

4) Profile. By far and away the most expensive, but probably vital if there's any ambition to really make the business a success. It's the real cost of establishing an online firm and its every bit as expensive as running a physical site, Google ads, Facebook ads, sponsoring content creation etc etc Given time you'd be able to dial in on what was most effective, but in the first instance you'd just have to spend a boatload of cash and see what sticks. I believe the statistics for conversion for even the big players from click to checkout are in the low single percentage (around 3% IIRC) and for a small seller they'll be a fraction of that. Therefore you need to drive traffic in the order of thousands of page visits to see any sort of impact on sales, and that requires hundreds of thousands of pairs of eyes on your ads.

Realistically you need to be taking a little from each, everything is linked and being the cheapest is no good if you're page 4 on Google and there's a dozen sellers ahead of you that are "cheap enough." Its an immense challenge and I don't envy you in the slightest. I've dabbled with it a little, and the main driver of business is still existing customers of the physical business making out of hours or away from location purchases, which is an advantage you just don't have.

We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark

The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.

The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox

Ask me about
Barnstaple Slayers Club 
   
Made in us
Deadly Tomb Guard





Florida

Aecus Decimus wrote:
 McDougall Designs wrote:
I offer a lot more than just "Standard discount rates".


Then mention that stuff instead of all the fluff. I don't care about your cool conversion ideas or how you see beauty in piles of shame, I care about exactly three things from an online store:

1) The price is the cheapest available.

2) The product arrives on schedule at my house with no issues.

3) Any issues that do come up are promptly resolved by sending me a replacement.

If it isn't directly related to one of those things I don't want to hear about it. If you have an advantage in offering fewer issues with inventory management then that should be right up front in talking about what your store offers, way before any of the irrelevant fluff.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 McDougall Designs wrote:
So one store offering max discount denudes the possibility of competition?


Pretty much. A physical retail store can compete on location and convenience as long as the area isn't already so saturated with stores that your "closest store to me" customer pool is too small to pay the bills. An online store doesn't have that option, you're competing with every other online store and the primary thing customers care about is price. Online sales is a mature technology in 2022 and things like "the product ships on schedule" are now the expected bare minimum, not something to brag about and compete on. So if there is already a store offering a functional online shopping experience with the maximum permitted discount how exactly do you intend to compete with them?

It's not my fault manufacturers put a cap on what any retailer can sell their product at.


It's not. But you aren't entitled to have a successful store, sometimes the answer is simply that you're too late and there isn't a viable business plan.


My prices beat or exceed other online retailers.

If there's an issue, I work with you to make it right or refund.

I offer the whole mantic product line. Granted, there are a few straggler codes, but all of kings of war is currently available as product pages.

I offer 3D printed items.

I offer single sprues.

I offer multiple ranges so you have options and availability on all of them.

And I won't give you a standardized customer service schpeal.

And I pack my products well.

McDougall Designs Wargaming Retailer

McDougall Designs Dakka News thread.

McDougall Designs Facebook page

I am an Authorized Retailer of Wargames Atlantic and Mantic games, and carry shieldwolf and fireforge (among others) from distributors. 
   
Made in fr
Perfect Shot Ultramarine Predator Pilot




 McDougall Designs wrote:


If there's an issue, I work with you to make it right or refund.

And I won't give you a standardized customer service schpeal.

And I pack my products well.


So does every other online store. These things are bare minimum expectations to even exist as a store in 2022, not things to brag about.


I offer the whole mantic product line. Granted, there are a few straggler codes, but all of kings of war is currently available as product pages.

I offer 3D printed items.

I offer single sprues.

I offer multiple ranges so you have options and availability on all of them.


Then put this up front. "We have the entire Mantic line, including products no other US store sells, at 20% off MSRP" is a selling point. But if I have to get several posts into this thread before you mention it I'm not going to scroll past all the fluff about your hobby love to find it. You have 5 seconds to give me that information and convince me to click through to the store before you lose that interaction.

   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

So I just went to your store and saw a few things I'd improve on:

1) You don't advertise any of the brands you carry. Your top bar should have the big brands that you stock along with the discount you offer in bright shiny letters. Mantic should be a big bold banner button with your standard 15-20% off or whatever your range is.
Look at any of the other big stores and they do that, they list their biggest sellers and partners up front and in bold. Yes they've dropdown lists for all their range, but their big ones are advertised on the banner front and centre in bold.

2) The second thing below your banner is a massive, and blurry "Deus Vult" boxed set. That's kind of advertising them, but you are filling the entire of your front page advertising space with 1 ad for 1 model (yes you're advertising a range with the buttons, but you're only showing me one big model box). Plus its so large that its gone past its native resolution and gone blurry so its not even amazing me with quality

3) Below that you've got 4 featured products.
So in total your front page is showing me 5 products that you sell. 3 of which are just different shield types. They might sell well enough to get featured, but ultimately you're not really showing off much that's interesting.



Essentially your store needs a facelift. Go look at Amazon, Element Games, Wayland, Firestorm etc.... All those stores are your competition and more. Look at their shop fronts, look at what they do. Broadly speaking they do all the same kinds of thing and you want to do them too.


Where's your "coming soon" list that shows next week's releases? Where's your "recently released" etc...

Your front page is your VERY first chance to wow me and advertise to me and show me what you're offering me as a customer.





On the marketing front understand that all marketing is long term investment. You have to keep at it like crazy and do it in an organised manner. Study which redit groups let you post and which ones your posts vanish on and find out why - is it redit bots or rules you're breaking or what.

I would also say that, yes you want to be getting out to conventions. You need to make yourself known in the physical world and at the local level as well. Sometimes those local customers are your bread and butter if you can build up a healthy base of them locally. It's also your first port of call in direct customer interaction and feedback. Your chance to build relations and a name for yourself.

Starting out you need to have as high a customer retention as you can because you can't make up for it with price beating nor heavy aggressive marketing.



I also agree with others, you need to make a choice. Are you running a hobby store or a store. It's totally ok to run a hobby store; totally fine. Lots of people run side businesses and such that aren't their bread and butter but let them give back and work in their area of interest.
However if you want to see the profits come in you need to step up your game and take it on seriously. This might even involve taking out a business loan (or saving) and using that money for proper business consultations and advice; to put into hiring a website designer to design you a sales site; to put into an advertising and marketing campaign; to pay for convention attendance etc...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/08/21 20:33:13


A Blog in Miniature

3D Printing, hobbying and model fun! 
   
Made in us
Deadly Tomb Guard





Florida

Aecus Decimus wrote:
 McDougall Designs wrote:


If there's an issue, I work with you to make it right or refund.

And I won't give you a standardized customer service schpeal.

And I pack my products well.


So does every other online store. These things are bare minimum expectations to even exist as a store in 2022, not things to brag about.


I offer the whole mantic product line. Granted, there are a few straggler codes, but all of kings of war is currently available as product pages.

I offer 3D printed items.

I offer single sprues.

I offer multiple ranges so you have options and availability on all of them.


Then put this up front. "We have the entire Mantic line, including products no other US store sells, at 20% off MSRP" is a selling point. But if I have to get several posts into this thread before you mention it I'm not going to scroll past all the fluff about your hobby love to find it. You have 5 seconds to give me that information and convince me to click through to the store before you lose that interaction.



1. Did I say I was bragging? I was listing out what I do. I know plenty of people who have had gakky customer service experiences elsewhere. I treat my clients differently, and I'm staying as such.

2. Cool. Being a retailer who is also a hobbyist and shares things to inspire and maybe make a related sprue sale is less preferable to a faceless distribution store that offers max discount. Got it.

Really making me feel like being honest about my business practices isn't the way to go and I should be a gakky upseller. I appreciate it if it's simple honestly, but it seems like you are trying to rag that everything but the lowest price is superficial bs?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/08/21 20:33:05


McDougall Designs Wargaming Retailer

McDougall Designs Dakka News thread.

McDougall Designs Facebook page

I am an Authorized Retailer of Wargames Atlantic and Mantic games, and carry shieldwolf and fireforge (among others) from distributors. 
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK


McDougall Designs is happy to offer Mantic games products at 20% off of MSRP.

McDougall Designs is carrying a limited range of Mantic games product on our ready-shelf.
Regular Mantic products, including special orders, are at 20% off retail. Items listed as "MANTIC DIRECT" on the mantic games website will be 10% off.
STOCK ORDER WITH MANTIC IS PLACED MONTHLY ON THE 10TH OF THE MONTH. PLEASE PLACE YOUR MANTIC SPECIAL ORDER REQUESTS PRIOR TO THE 10TH OF THE MONTH.


I would remove all of that and replace it with a simple discount price on the model sets. The common trick is to show the RRP crossed out and then the actual price you sell it for in bold. Then on the page itself for the model simply show the stock status and delivery times.

So instead of seeing that you have slow orders and might have stuff you have to order or not etc.... which all makes it sound like ordering from you is complicated, you simply show me on each model what's going on. That's all I, as a customer need.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/08/21 20:39:20


A Blog in Miniature

3D Printing, hobbying and model fun! 
   
Made in fr
Perfect Shot Ultramarine Predator Pilot




 McDougall Designs wrote:
1. Did I say I was bragging? I was listing out what I do. I know plenty of people who have had gakky customer service experiences elsewhere. I treat my clients differently, and I'm staying as such.


Even listing it is bragging, it's like listing that you do in fact accept credit card payments instead of requiring your customers to mail a check. Yes, it's a true statement, but it's an expected basic function of an online store in 2022 that all customer service issues are resolved with an immediate no questions asked refund or replacement. In fact, by mentioning it explicitly you're raising a bit of a red flag and making me wonder why you're having so many bad initial interactions that your ability to resolve them matters.

2. Cool. Being a retailer who is also a hobbyist and shares things to inspire and maybe make a related sprue sale is less preferable to a faceless distribution store that offers max discount. Got it.


Yep. That's the reality of being an online store. This is what I mean about treating your store as a business, not a hobby project. Sharing things to inspire people is fun but it provides a very poor ratio of effort invested to new sales generated. And if you're putting your effort into doing things you find enjoyable instead of doing things that produce a bigger number in your bank account you are doomed to fail in a highly saturated market with very poor margins.

Really making me feel like being honest about my business practices isn't the way to go and I should be a gakky upseller. I appreciate it if it's simple honestly, but it seems like you are trying to rag that everything but the lowest price is superficial bs?


That is exactly what I'm doing. You're an online store, a means of getting a desired product to my house and nothing more. The only thing I care about is the transaction itself. If you are not doing a better job of providing a product to me at a cheaper price than your competition then don't bother attempting to enter the market.

If you don't like this fact then retail is not the business for you. Maybe you should instead consider a move into content production? Make a blog, get on social media, etc, and try to generate subscription revenue from people who love your content?
   
Made in us
Deadly Tomb Guard





Florida

Aecus Decimus wrote:
 McDougall Designs wrote:


If there's an issue, I work with you to make it right or refund.

And I won't give you a standardized customer service schpeal.

And I pack my products well.


So does every other online store. These things are bare minimum expectations to even exist as a store in 2022, not things to brag about.


I offer the whole mantic product line. Granted, there are a few straggler codes, but all of kings of war is currently available as product pages.

I offer 3D printed items.

I offer single sprues.

I offer multiple ranges so you have options and availability on all of them.


Then put this up front. "We have the entire Mantic line, including products no other US store sells, at 20% off MSRP" is a selling point. But if I have to get several posts into this thread before you mention it I'm not going to scroll past all the fluff about your hobby love to find it. You have 5 seconds to give me that information and convince me to click through to the store before you lose that interaction.



So essentially I'm not working hard enough (I guess my effort looks like a hobby business rather than someone trying to build something from nothing.) and my website needs a facelift. Ok. That's something I will work with.

Thank you for your candor.

McDougall Designs Wargaming Retailer

McDougall Designs Dakka News thread.

McDougall Designs Facebook page

I am an Authorized Retailer of Wargames Atlantic and Mantic games, and carry shieldwolf and fireforge (among others) from distributors. 
   
Made in fr
Perfect Shot Ultramarine Predator Pilot




 McDougall Designs wrote:
So essentially I'm not working hard enough (I guess my effort looks like a hobby business rather than someone trying to build something from nothing.) and my website needs a facelift. Ok. That's something I will work with.

Thank you for your candor.


It's not that you're not working hard enough, it's that you're putting your work into the wrong place. You're putting work into things that are fun to do and express your passion for the hobby rather than the boring ruthless capitalism things that actually make a store succeed.
   
Made in us
Deadly Tomb Guard





Florida

Aecus Decimus wrote:
 McDougall Designs wrote:
So essentially I'm not working hard enough (I guess my effort looks like a hobby business rather than someone trying to build something from nothing.) and my website needs a facelift. Ok. That's something I will work with.

Thank you for your candor.


It's not that you're not working hard enough, it's that you're putting your work into the wrong place. You're putting work into things that are fun to do and express your passion for the hobby rather than the boring ruthless capitalism things that actually make a store succeed.


And that people would rather support ruthless capitalism than someone who wants to better the hobby by trying to interest people to take on interesting projects and creatively express themselves

McDougall Designs Wargaming Retailer

McDougall Designs Dakka News thread.

McDougall Designs Facebook page

I am an Authorized Retailer of Wargames Atlantic and Mantic games, and carry shieldwolf and fireforge (among others) from distributors. 
   
Made in fr
Perfect Shot Ultramarine Predator Pilot




 McDougall Designs wrote:
And that people would rather support ruthless capitalism than someone who wants to better the hobby by trying to interest people to take on interesting projects and creatively express themselves


Yep. People like to say all kinds of nice words about "bettering the hobby" or "shop local" or whatever, but at the end of the day Amazon, Walmart, etc, are all making billions by providing the cheapest prices with acceptable service. Actions speak louder than words and if you want to stay in business you follow the successful examples.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/08/21 21:02:15


 
   
Made in gb
The Daemon Possessing Fulgrim's Body





Devon, UK

Oh, feth off with this hard done by artist schtick.

You're a faceless online webpage to the overwhelming majority, who are simply looking for a good deal on an in stock item.

The suggestion to go make YouTube videos might be a good one, if you get a decent following then perhaps it'll make the website a better proposition, like Geek Gaming Scenics etc

We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark

The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.

The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox

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Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

 McDougall Designs wrote:
Aecus Decimus wrote:
 McDougall Designs wrote:
So essentially I'm not working hard enough (I guess my effort looks like a hobby business rather than someone trying to build something from nothing.) and my website needs a facelift. Ok. That's something I will work with.

Thank you for your candor.


It's not that you're not working hard enough, it's that you're putting your work into the wrong place. You're putting work into things that are fun to do and express your passion for the hobby rather than the boring ruthless capitalism things that actually make a store succeed.


And that people would rather support ruthless capitalism than someone who wants to better the hobby by trying to interest people to take on interesting projects and creatively express themselves



It's about doing both and realising that, as a shop, the former is more important than the latter.
When I go to make a purchase I'm thinking "Is the price good" "have they got it in stock" "can they get it to me in a timely fashion"

After that its checking reviews - have they got good reviews on their store, on Google or those other "Trust" websites. When bad reviews happen do they respond to them and aim to resolve them.

I don't really care if they write lots of articles about wargames or make videos or do interviews. All that stuff is additional important stuff once I'm their customer. It might make me keep coming back as a customer if the store if friendly, welcoming and engaging. But ultimately price, availability, stock, shipping etc... are the things that get customers to part with their money

A Blog in Miniature

3D Printing, hobbying and model fun! 
   
Made in us
Deadly Tomb Guard





Florida

Thank you all for the information. I have a lot to digest and work on.

McDougall Designs Wargaming Retailer

McDougall Designs Dakka News thread.

McDougall Designs Facebook page

I am an Authorized Retailer of Wargames Atlantic and Mantic games, and carry shieldwolf and fireforge (among others) from distributors. 
   
Made in us
Legendary Master of the Chapter





SoCal

So, I am a regular customer, and I can explain why. I would like all of your thoughts on if these are reasons that make his shop unique and should be capitalized upon, or if they just don’t matter to most wargamers.

1. The sprue service. He provides a great selection of plastic sprues from many non-GW companies. Most of the bits and sprue sellers I’ve seen fixate on GW, sell only on eBay, have crazy price and stock issues, or don’t have items I really want, such as Mantic.

2. Mantic has been mentioned already, but it bears repeating that in the US, feint able to order and buy Mantic at a discount is rare. Miniature Market Carrie’s only a fraction of their range, Amazon charges ludicrous prices, and the FLGS can order it, usually for less discount and more waiting. And they don’t provide sprue service.

3. The 3D print service. Max sells lot of useful conversion bits, such as helmets, steeds, shields and weapons. I don’t tend to buy a lot of these bits, but I will add them to orders or add sprues to bits orders. For example, I ordered some of the Panzerjagers and some printed Sallet(?) helms to make not-Sororitas. I’ve used Egyptian swords and shields with plastic kits to make fantasy Egyptians. He sells printed demigryphons and plastic cavalry of many kinds.

4. One stop shop for fantasy conversions. If I want to make a Frostgrave crew or Stargrave crew, I can buy a couple plastic sprues and some printed bits to make them even more unique, all for a very reasonable price. His store seems perfect for people looking to convert rpg or skirmish minis without having to buy in whole boxes or from multiple sources. Is there a market he should work to tap?

5. Service. I have had him personalize some of my orders (mostly printing helmets and such at slightly different scales), and always had great experiences. Any time there was a problem, he made things right. Good service should be standard…but I’ve felt that I received better care than I have from, say, Miniature Market.

   
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Regular Dakkanaut




The one issue with Mantic product is that there is some demand, but not a great demand in the US. When I was retailing it I found I had the best success via Amazon FBA.

Negative- Amazon FBA shipping control and quality has degraded over time. Using regular envelopes for soft boxes.

Eastern side of the country was the most popular shipping point, west coast has decent size communities in WA/Canada, some folks in California and Oregon. TX too. Getting to know the community a bit helps, Michael Carter is a strong pillar of tournament support, Lady of the Lake in MN is arguably the best of community tournaments (was fun to fly down to Duluth!).



Strong tip: Consider Sendle or Pirate Ship for domestic and international. Sendle works by bypassing the typical USPS chain, and gets to places like an Amazon package. Pirate ship has great prices for basic international needs, especially economy ones.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/08/22 06:35:46


 
   
Made in us
Deadly Tomb Guard





Florida

rgdgaming wrote:
The one issue with Mantic product is that there is some demand, but not a great demand in the US. When I was retailing it I found I had the best success via Amazon FBA.

Negative- Amazon FBA shipping control and quality has degraded over time. Using regular envelopes for soft boxes.

Eastern side of the country was the most popular shipping point, west coast has decent size communities in WA/Canada, some folks in California and Oregon. TX too. Getting to know the community a bit helps, Michael Carter is a strong pillar of tournament support, Lady of the Lake in MN is arguably the best of community tournaments (was fun to fly down to Duluth!).



Strong tip: Consider Sendle or Pirate Ship for domestic and international. Sendle works by bypassing the typical USPS chain, and gets to places like an Amazon package. Pirate ship has great prices for basic international needs, especially economy ones.



I'll look into pirate ship.

One of my major issues with international right now is that I would love to open up sales to EU customers but cant.

Based on the VAT regulations changes from July 2021 (the way it was explained to me), i need a designated partner located in an EU country to remit VAT on my behalf.

1, I don't necessarily want a business partner and 2. The companies that provides such a service that I have contacted have quoted rather absurd rates per month to do so.

McDougall Designs Wargaming Retailer

McDougall Designs Dakka News thread.

McDougall Designs Facebook page

I am an Authorized Retailer of Wargames Atlantic and Mantic games, and carry shieldwolf and fireforge (among others) from distributors. 
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
So, I am a regular customer, and I can explain why. I would like all of your thoughts on if these are reasons that make his shop unique and should be capitalized upon, or if they just don’t matter to most wargamers.



Well I said earlier that his site needs to push the mantic supply stuff on the front page in the banner and suchlike so that people really know he's got that up for sale.
Otherwise a lot of your comments are on specialist services - bits and custom 3D print parts. There's certainly a niche for that, but its also very hard to scale it up. Bits from sprues requires sprue that have lots of popular bits to make them worthwhile to stock; meanwhile its also a service that can generate a lot of waste material very quickly so he's got to consider sorting and storage.

Custom 3D print stuff is also something that can be time consuming per customer, worthwhile, but also trickier to scale. Considering his website already says he's got a 20 day backlog it seems his 3D print end needs scaling up even if just for regular models let alone custom services. 20 days wait for 3D printed models means many customers will go elsewhere and the majority of people will want your standard models anyway. This is where a business loan might be needed to help purchase more printing machines (eg Elegoo Saturn or Saturn 2) to allow an increase in production and get that backlog overcome and keep it down.


Considering it looks like most product lines are ordered once a month that's a risky thing for a store. It means if anything is out of stock you could be looking at over a month to get your product. That's fast going to send people to other sites. Many stores make weekly orders so that, on top of popular items they hold in stock, they can get products quickly to their customers. Gone are the days of "please wait at least 14 days" when you've the likes of Amazon who have pushed for next day delivery services as standard. People today in general expect faster postage.
Now as some are overseas once a month might be the best, esp with the bulk ordering and discounts and such. As a result I'd be looking around for some standard US model lines to stock so that you've got products that you can order once a week.

The big problem with having a store built on niche markets and such is that it can take a lot longer to grow and get the word out. Having solid stock lines that are common and standard can help provide a base-line income. Much in the same way that many highstreet stores stock magic the gathering and wargames side by side. The MTG generates a healthy continual steady income whilst the wargames sell slower.


Edit - I also see the website has a new image showing more FF models. However its still a freaking huge image. I have to scroll to get past it . Half the size or even a third the size would be good enough to show that you're stocking it.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/08/22 08:19:23


A Blog in Miniature

3D Printing, hobbying and model fun! 
   
Made in gb
Malicious Mandrake




At a tangent... maybe... again huge uninformed speculation here..... as there are multiple mantic discounters in Europe anyway, may not be worth it setting up a VAT partner....
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




 McDougall Designs wrote:
rgdgaming wrote:
The one issue with Mantic product is that there is some demand, but not a great demand in the US. When I was retailing it I found I had the best success via Amazon FBA.

Negative- Amazon FBA shipping control and quality has degraded over time. Using regular envelopes for soft boxes.

Eastern side of the country was the most popular shipping point, west coast has decent size communities in WA/Canada, some folks in California and Oregon. TX too. Getting to know the community a bit helps, Michael Carter is a strong pillar of tournament support, Lady of the Lake in MN is arguably the best of community tournaments (was fun to fly down to Duluth!).



Strong tip: Consider Sendle or Pirate Ship for domestic and international. Sendle works by bypassing the typical USPS chain, and gets to places like an Amazon package. Pirate ship has great prices for basic international needs, especially economy ones.



I was thinking more like Canada. There are small groups that dont always have shops, and for some reason may not be keen on waiting on the UK. I like Sendle in the US because it speeds up the customary USPS chain route, with better delivery times, more or less.

I'll look into pirate ship.

One of my major issues with international right now is that I would love to open up sales to EU customers but cant.

Based on the VAT regulations changes from July 2021 (the way it was explained to me), i need a designated partner located in an EU country to remit VAT on my behalf.

1, I don't necessarily want a business partner and 2. The companies that provides such a service that I have contacted have quoted rather absurd rates per month to do so.
   
 
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